Feedback needed from everyone here PLEASE!

[newls1]

Since i've moved back to the Atlanta area, I haven't been able to find any work. This has been for 8 months now. I just got back my tax return, and was HOPING to have this little amount of money start a little, yet "successful" business, however this won't happen without EVERYONES FEEDBACK, so please continue to read this:

I have been dealing w/ building computers for 10+ years (like most of us here have) I have been pondering an idea of making / producing external W/Cing solutions much like the Koolance Exos units, but ones that perform exceptionally well w/ high OC's My units will all feature pumps, radiators, tubing, blocks (which might be optional) that are well known, and perform extremely well!

I am undecided about the case to house this all into, but am working REALLY hard trying to find something that is aesthetically pleasing, yet not to overly big. I would like to make it out of aluminum, but metal / plexiglass is possible as-well.

I would like feedback from everyone here if this is something you would be interested in, and or would be interested in purchasing? My target prices should fall into the 275-350 range if all goes right. Any tips or case ideas would be MUCH appreciated And if all works out perfectly (which I REALLY HOPE) my customer service will always be TOP NOTCH as im a very personable type of guy!

Thank you for spending the time to read this

Seth

[[cTx] Nooc]

so you want to build custom WC setups? sounds like a plan:)

[newls1]

so you want to build custom WC setups? sounds like a plan:)
Thank you:) . Just having a REALLY hard time finding the right case, and or building it. I bought a metal break, but cant bend it just right, and am getting really upset cause I really want to make a really nice looking case, but it isn't easy.

[Pete]

The case, maybe something like a Vapochill case be nice!

[newls1]

The case, maybe something like a Vapochill case be nice!
It could be, but I find that rather "bulky" and really to big for what it needs to be. I can keep costs down considerably if I can just find the right case, or build it right....

[[cTx] Nooc]

CM stacker is super easy to setup for OC, might be a little expensive for you?:confused:

PS check out Raidmax Katana series cases

[Pete]

It'll all come down to a rad, pump, res, whats used/offer then to house around it! Get that sorted, then do some layouts on paper and draw round them then draw a box around them.

Hope it works out for you dude. I just started to make my own MTB frames. 2 protos out being beatne now and all is looking good

[Sideroxylon]

I really think you need to think about this a bit more. Most people here don't buy pre-configured water cooled systems and those that do end up building their own eventually anyways.

I don't know, maybe it's just me and I don't want to burst your bubble, but I have virtually no interest in pre-configured external setups. And I think that most here would agree. Now maybe if you put together setups like Petra does and offer his level of support but then of course you'd be competing against Petra and that would be tough.

[serialk11r]

It comes down to the design really, a rad is probably straightforward and pump too, if you're not stupid. If you're making a housing then a res should be no problem either. But a problem with these things is that they're sorta, well non-versatile, and the user has less flexibility to adapt the stuff to their own use. I think an attractive case design with some kind of digital controller that tells you the temperature of the water, air, and tells you the pump speed as well as voltage, fan voltage, and pressure maybe would be really cool, squeeze it all on an LCD. Of course that would be pretty hard to do.

[[cTx] Nooc]

Maybe, but Petra is constantly bombarded with PMs and half of the stuff is out of stock in his online shop...

I'd say if I were to look for a custom wc setup, I would choose the guy who is just starting and has everything in stock and ready to go (you).

Come out and show people your work, if people will admire you, they will want to buy your setups. I've never heard of Vadim computers until of late, but once I saw their custom WC systems, I was sold.

[newls1]

Maybe, but Petra is constantly bombarded with PMs and half of the stuff is out of stock in his online shop...

I'd say if I were to look for a custom wc setup, I would choose the guy who is just starting and has everything in stock and ready to go (you).

Come out and show people your work, if people will admire you, they will want to buy your setups. I've never heard of Vadim computers until of late, but once I saw their custom WC systems, I was sold.
Thanks bud. Tomorrow im going to start another case design and see how it goes. This is obviously going to take some time, but i'll make it work:cool: goiing to make dinner now, i'll talk to you all later.........

[ziddey]

I've actually gotten a few pm's on forums here and there from random people asking for my opinion on basically the same thing you're trying to do. So it sounds like a lot of people are trying to do the same thing. What you've said so far sounds like you're willing to go a lot more in depth though, which is a good thing.

Something I've been thinking about myself is how to design a case such that space is extremely efficiently used, while at the same time, no one component blocks access to another. For instance, in my current setup (using a free ultra wizard), I've got the radiator fitted nicely at the top of the case. However, to remove the motherboard, I need to remove the rear fan, psu, and radiator. When I had my ds3, I was able to finesse it out by using a dremel to make a notch in the lower inner lip of the case. To remove the psu, I need to drop the rad, and remove a fan. Everything is a real pain, but I can't see any better way to do it in my current case.

That's why I need choosing / making a good case design is so important. It's kind of like buying a poorly designed car, where changing the alternator will end up costing a grand in labor alone, because of all the work involved.

I wish you the best of luck.

An idea I've been having is to have the main side case panel actually be two pieces instead of just one. That way, you could have a lower or upper compartment with just a radiator on there, and it wouldn't get in the way of things. Hell, I've even thought about using a push-button controlled latch, and pneumatics to open the panel and support it open.

Good luck and keep us updated!

[newls1]

I've actually gotten a few pm's on forums here and there from random people asking for my opinion on basically the same thing you're trying to do. So it sounds like a lot of people are trying to do the same thing. What you've said so far sounds like you're willing to go a lot more in depth though, which is a good thing.

Something I've been thinking about myself is how to design a case such that space is extremely efficiently used, while at the same time, no one component blocks access to another. For instance, in my current setup (using a free ultra wizard), I've got the radiator fitted nicely at the top of the case. However, to remove the motherboard, I need to remove the rear fan, psu, and radiator. When I had my ds3, I was able to finesse it out by using a dremel to make a notch in the lower inner lip of the case. To remove the psu, I need to drop the rad, and remove a fan. Everything is a real pain, but I can't see any better way to do it in my current case.

That's why I need choosing / making a good case design is so important. It's kind of like buying a poorly designed car, where changing the alternator will end up costing a grand in labor alone, because of all the work involved.

I wish you the best of luck.

An idea I've been having is to have the main side case panel actually be two pieces instead of just one. That way, you could have a lower or upper compartment with just a radiator on there, and it wouldn't get in the way of things. Hell, I've even thought about using a push-button controlled latch, and pneumatics to open the panel and support it open.

Good luck and keep us updated!

You got it;)

[[cTx] Nooc]

I can see something like ddc2+ pump, double rad and a nice controller fit inside an aluminum box. if you can make it as compact and as good-looking as Exos 2 (performing MUCH better of course), I can imagine a lot of people showing interest in it, especially those who are too lazy to learn about the whole deal and just want a simple straightforward kit. it shouldn't be that hard...

[sanhacker]

I'm not convinced this will ever fly.
Personally, this is a hobby. As such, buying a kit would take all the fun out of it. I mean how do you justify a simple CPU block when there can be no agreement on this forum as to how the FuZion compares to the GT. If there is no standard, how do you measure the alternatives available in a kit. Just not sure of the value add you would bring to the table. If you provide multiple blocks in your kit, why would'nt I want to buy them from the manufacturer at likely a lesser cost ???

Then again, I've been wrong many times and just may need to chalk this up to ignorance.

Best of luck.

[ziddey]

I'm not convinced this will ever fly.
Personally, this is a hobby. As such, buying a kit would take all the fun out of it. I mean how do you justify a simple CPU block when there can be no agreement on this forum as to how the FuZion compares to the GT. If there is no standard, how do you measure the alternatives available in a kit. Just not sure of the value add you would bring to the table. If you provide multiple blocks in your kit, why would'nt I want to buy them from the manufacturer at likely a lesser cost ???

Then again, I've been wrong many times and just may need to chalk this up to ignorance.

Best of luck.
There are still rich little teenagers who want the coolest (no pun intended) of things, and they'd be probably the biggest target audience. However, the problem with this is that they'll usually go for the more name brand assemblies, and as of such, most of them end up with a koolance or something and suffer poor performance, but yet could care less because they've got the coolness and can't be bothered to actually learn how to make it better (or actually want to make it better).

[sanhacker]

Hmmmmm. Rich Teenagers.
Being a father of one of those, I think I can understand.

I guess it's possible that teenagers are making buying decisions in some households, this just isn't one of them. She gets what I hand down.

Are you saying teenagers are dictating buying preferences? I know this to be the case with regard to cell phones, iPOD's but her computer is just what I give her. As a matter of fact, she seems grateful to have her own computer with DSL connectivity.

Just can't see her having water cooling requests, but maybe that is a guy thing to meet our overclocking requirements. Hmm. requests.

[Kobalt]

The problem is that with such a small niche, you'd need to go national. This would then get complicated if anything got damaged in shipping. Anyone in the market for a prebuilt watercooling setup is probably going to go with koolance.

You're much better off doing computer service and repair. It's pretty lucrative as long as geek squad continues to charge like 180$ to install an IDE cable. Just post attractive looking fliers on busy streets and in outdoor malls and maybe do a little local advertising to get started. Then you can rely on word of mouth to continue your success. Just make sure you're competent, cheap, and a nice person. Also, you may want to consider getting A+ certified or some other BS certification to make things look more professional. Creating a website would help as well. One of the main things you have to overcome is the blandness of most "mom and pop" computer repair/service companies. You're working with technology, so make it look like so. Wear a stylish uniform, use catchy advertising, and if you build computers use sleek cases.

[ziddey]

Hmmmmm. Rich Teenagers.
Being a father of one of those, I think I can understand.

I guess it's possible that teenagers are making buying decisions in some households, this just isn't one of them. She gets what I hand down.

Are you saying teenagers are dictating buying preferences? I know this to be the case with regard to cell phones, iPOD's but her computer is just what I give her. As a matter of fact, she seems grateful to have her own computer with DSL connectivity.

Just can't see her having water cooling requests, but maybe that is a guy thing to meet our overclocking requirements. Hmm. requests.
I can't speak from the parenting front, but speaking from some people that I know of (probably a little older than your daughter), there are people... For instance, my friend's roommate picked up a large flat screen tv (40" lcd) to one up my friend's 42" plasma, matched up to his 5.1 sound system (why the hell do you need 2 5.1 systems in a triple dorm??), and so on and so forth. Kind of sickening.

[serialk11r]

Actually rich people don't necessarily treat kids like that. It depends on ethnicity and the parents themselves.
Okay look, theres this kid whos adopted by a super rich guy, and he has a 7000 dollar alienware computer (fx62, 7950gx2 sli), with that stupid koolance liquid cooling ('alien ice') and he's got a 30 inch screen for it. He's got his own 40" tv, a ps3, and his dad has a 72" tv... All in a nice big mansion...

[sanhacker]

Actually rich people don't necessarily treat kids like that. It depends on ethnicity and the parents themselves.
Okay look, theres this kid whos adopted by a super rich guy, and he has a 7000 dollar alienware computer (fx62, 7950gx2 sli), with that stupid koolance liquid cooling ('alien ice') and he's got a 30 inch screen for it. He's got his own 40" tv, a ps3, and his dad has a 72" tv... All in a nice big mansion...

So life is good in your house ??? To bad dad won't share the 72".
j/k I actually like the levity/sanity you bring to these forums.

[ziddey]

Man I hear that. And it's even more disturbing to hear that from you, since we're now talking about 13 year olds with that kind of stuff. That's even more gruesome than seeing it from college kids

[serialk11r]

So life is good in your house ??? To bad dad won't share the 72".
j/k I actually like the levity/sanity you bring to these forums.
Why thanks for the complement, they are quite rare...

[__Wolf__]

Don't know if this might help you out, came across it the other day.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/25/making-a-custom-pc-enclosure-with-protocase/index.html

Good luck to ya m8.

[ThermalTaken]

Coming from a person that owns his own th your ownbusiness knows how hard it is to make a mark. If you decide to go withng with your own rather thenyou own WC system i suggest going on your own rather then selling someone else's. The thing with this is you will need to do a crap load of R&D. Im in the car performance business and it took me 3 yrs to R&D my own turbo kit. In the end your not kicking a ton load of money to a vendor who isnt giving you much of a discount over retail unless your buying in lots of a 1,000. Im not familar with the PC business end but i do know about business period as ive been doing this for 16 yrs. Ive seen guys start a business in their house and they're now one of the leaders in their field


Just a thought........

BTW, i love this site. Ive been into modding PC's for many years and im a member of quite a few of the big PC forum's and XS is by far the best, Hands down. Everything i need to know is here, any info i need..is here. Ive seen quite a few of my personal first........... Sorry, rumblin' on...Late night & im tired

-DreadZ:toast:

[sanhacker]

Why thanks for the complement, they are quite rare...

No thanks needed. After 28 years of working on water cooled machines running everything from VS1 to VSE to VM to MVS to OS/390 to z/OS and z/Linux, yours is a refreshing voice. I get a real kick out of how seriously people take these little PC's we run as a hobby and at the same time I find myself doing the same thing. LoL. "Let's get serious about thermodynamics and fluid flow".

Our machines are so insignificant yet we take them soooo seriously. This radiator and that block. Who cares. No one in the real world uses these to run their business. Okay, a few lighthearted soles may.

Just do me a favor and maintain that enthusiasm. I find it very refreshing. You make the rest of us THINK.

Now go do your HOMEWORK! :slapass:

EDIT: BTW, its Compliment Check your spelling and feel free to correct mine.

[newls1]

Just want to thank everyone for all your ideas/comments/and your do's & donts. Today im going to find/make a nice housing and i'll post pictures when done. This might take me a few day so bare with me.

[IanY]

newls1,

Off topic, but Autozone just posted good earnings results. They are rapidly expanding and the Atlanta area is a high growth region. Perhaps you may want to contact them. The human resources manager for Georgia can be contacted at:

mailto: dchr.lavonia@autozone.com

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=J001&UserAction=viewJobs&Parameters=STORE

I respectfully suggest that the job search should take precedence over computer building. I have been down and out before, and being down and out brings people to do irrational things. But its none of my business.

The very best to you.

[newls1]

newls1,

Off topic, but Autozone just posted good earnings results. They are rapidly expanding and the Atlanta area is a high growth region. Perhaps you may want to contact them. The human resources manager for Georgia can be contacted at:

mailto: dchr.lavonia@autozone.com

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=J001&UserAction=viewJobs&Parameters=STORE

I respectfully suggest that the job search should take precedence over computer building. I have been down and out before, and being down and out brings people to do irrational things. But its none of my business.

The very best to you.
Thank you very much for this EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE REPLY, however I already gave autozone my app a few times, and nothing came about.

[newls1]

OK, I sketched out my case specs and sent them off to a company that *MIGHT* be able to produce them for me. Not sure on the prices YET, but im keeping my fingers / toes crossed that it will be affordable.

[Polizei]

Just read a few posts in on the first page... A bit confused.

Are you going to take an existing case like a Stacker and modify it for watercooling, or are you going to make something that sits on top like the Koolance Exos system?

If you are going to make an Exos look-a-like, take a gander in the Phase Change forum and look at the cases people put single stage (SS) units in... get the name of their manufacturer and give them a call with your dimensions, if thats what youre looking for.

[newls1]

Just read a few posts in on the first page... A bit confused.

Are you going to take an existing case like a Stacker and modify it for watercooling, or are you going to make something that sits on top like the Koolance Exos system?

If you are going to make an Exos look-a-like, take a gander in the Phase Change forum and look at the cases people put single stage (SS) units in... get the name of their manufacturer and give them a call with your dimensions, if thats what youre looking for.
Im working with a few companies in designing my "OWN" custom enclosure! Should "being the key word" come out looking incredible. Im on the phone right now (on hold of course) with a company trying to figure some angles out.

[theelectic]

Why try to re-invent the wheel? Given the resources I'd look to the future with some kind of compressor (not TEC) based water chiller system. Like those 1/3hp aquarium chillers, only in a Koolance EXOS sized case. Have it microprocessor controlled with a built in ambient temperature and humidity sensor that calculates the dew point, so that the water is chilled dynamically under load so the temperature never goes below the dew point (no condensation worries). Keep it <$500 or 60% the price of the cheapest phase unit and you'd have a winner - better results than plain water, not quite as expensive, finicky, or dangerous as phase. As much as I like building and tinkering with things, sometimes I just want to be done with 5 minutes of setup and get amazing results, you know?

The main thing with external systems is that you're basically limited to 3/8" ID tubing for a PCI pass through, unless you want to get into drilling/case modding or your case has grommetted pass throughs built in.

[Pete]

If someone that wants to take on your job of manfacutring something and they put you on hold..hang up!

I called 5 frame builders trying to get a deal on a proto made. Only one in Poland said we will call you back as we'll get the paper work here ready. Ten mins latter called me back and i have 2 protos now being made for free. Now that tells me they want my contact and money and can deliver

[newls1]

If someone that wants to take on your job of manfacutring something and they put you on hold..hang up!

I called 5 frame builders trying to get a deal on a proto made. Only one in Poland said we will call you back as we'll get the paper work here ready. Ten mins latter called me back and i have 2 protos now being made for free. Now that tells me they want my contact and money and can deliver

i'm giving everyone a fair chance first. The drawing that i provided these places is "less then steller"" So there will be some confusion;) . i'll keep you all posted. thanks again for everyones feedback

[newls1]

WOW, I cant believe how fast I can get confused when build a case, and trying to explain it to someone. Either way, just a FYI, I should have a case in my hands by next week, and will keep you all updated. Thank you

[newls1]

OK, here is an update: I found a local metal shop in my area today after going to home depot and asking "random" "good ol boys" if there is any one in the area that can custom bend, weld metal, and most of the people all came back with the same company:) . I got there number and as soon I did that, some Home Depot worker told me to leave the property cause I was soliciting:D . Well I got the info I needed so I took off, (now keep in mind, i'm new to this state as I just moved here from S. Florida) I called these people up, drove to the Alabama/Georgia state line where there shop is, and I will have a custom "made to my specs" case Tuesday. Wish me luck here please guys, and I'll post up pics as soon as I feel like its worthy enough to show pics of it.

Take Care

[p8ntslinger676]

my bad never mind.

[newls1]

Deleted for mis-understanding

[newls1]

Another Update: Going to pickup case today "hopefully" that its done at the machine shop. I've ordered all the wiring guts, and parts for the inside, and HOPEFULLY should be rolling with it soon.

[newls1]

I got my case today from the metal shop, I'll post pics in about an hour. I really hope it is a good design. Im sure you all will let me know. I can tell you it is made from steel, and VERY STRONG! The pics im posting will be of it in a rough stage, I primed it since, and will do a nice paint job on it.

[allroy]

sounds good

[newls1]

I got my case today from the metal shop, I'll post pics in about an hour. I really hope it is a good design. Im sure you all will let me know. I can tell you it is made from steel, and VERY STRONG! The pics im posting will be of it in a rough stage, I primed it since, and will do a nice paint job on it.

Well, the damn machine shop screwed up:slap: . They made the top 1 3/8ths inches to short, so now the RAD wont fit in there. Going back on the 20th, with the RAD in hand, so we can work with the RAD, and the case at the same time. I'll keep you posted, and thanks for the interest.

[Istasi]

Will these be large enough to house a Thermochill rad or just a BIP/MCR?

[newls1]

NEW UPDATE!

I picked up my **RE-DONE** case today at the shop, brought it home, and ran into another issue, (well 2 actually).. 1st and for-most is that with the hoses all on, I cant get the hose to go to the rad with out it kinking VERY badly no matter what I did to prevent it, and just the thought of having such a tight bend didn't make me happy! 2nd, I came up with a second case design cause I decided I didn't like my original design that much anymore. I mocked my new case design out of cardboard, and will bring it to the metal fab shop tomorrow in the AM, and I swear after I paint it, I WILL SHOW you all pics. I hope you all like it, will have plenty of plexi-glass, and will be VERY strong. I hope to start selling these in the next 2 weeks.

[pplapeu]

I did what the "F" i wanted. In one case i built a wood box with two rads for a side put a table fan in the plenum area outside the rads and sucked. Works great. I ran a 120v pump Iwaki 20rzl at that bouth for $40 off eBay ...a used aquarium pump runs like hell and runs like forever...you do not want those Angel Fish to croak do you? Iwaki is a good pump. They rebuild if necessary.

Second cooler. Got a pump off eBay for $40. An I/R NIB that someone wanted to dump...basically the same as the Iwaki and rated at 5GPM. All the necessary stuff went in to a coffee table the PC sits on. I was not happy with the bougs rads i bought cheap off eBay so I got two heater cores and inlined those in the system AFTER I added 120v fans on the core. I made a 2g reservior. i only use distilled water. Leaking toxin UV dye is not my cup of tea.

SO WHAT YOU SHOULD DO:::::: Do what you want. Use a 120v pump and stick the stuff in and extra closet, the basement....in furniture....whatever.

HEAD is the power they sell pumps by. That is their rating. GO 5PGM. If you hae 30 feet head you can put the cooler in the basement and run it to the PC whereever it might be.

Do whatever you want.

You will have to buy kitter stuff to go in a case. Kitters have figured that all out.

You will find that Home Depot has PCV piping in all sizes. What I did for the rad is bush down wnd reducer down until I had the size for the 3/8" barbs....that is conceptually easy but you will need to think.

[pplapeu]

McMaster Carr is an online store that has all the fittings and tube BTW> Chicago to LaCrosse is usually a two day delivery for me.

Use McMaster Carr to find tube and barbs. They have a 3/8' double wall tube I love as you can make it into a pretzel and not kink it. $.25 per foot. [that is good] You can find 1/2' PCV screw fitting barbs and glue up barbs too. It is all there.

[newls1]

Thanks for the info:)

[pplapeu]

Thanks for the info:)

Cast your eyes on that McMaster Carr catalogue. It really is all there. It is a matter of you acclamating to the [a] site layout [b] terminology.

One really good pump you could find actually cools a huge copier machine. Pumps are in the elaborate soda pop machine at fast food joints. Pumps and tube are everywhere.

Once yo get in the FAT PART of eBay that has 5gpm INLINE pumps [you want under and inch fitting to the pump to bush/ reduucder it to your size] you got it made.....you can make what you imagine.

You can flip your unit on with a switch or a relay in your PCI slot. Take you r pick.

[newls1]

Is anyone interested in what im building for the community:( . I feel like im the only one looking foward to this cooling unit. Sure its not a phase cooler for -52c cooling, but a reliable kickass cooler I would think would be surely welcomed:D . I really think this will be a great cooler for those of you that dont like to chop up your case, make everything fit, remove items just to make the rad fit, etc..... The only thing you will have to do is run my custom build cables to the unit, and I provide the PCI card slot bracket, and my custom made cables, so installation (besides filling it of course & bleeding it) will be extremely easy for anyone;) . Any hoo, back to the topic.

My new custom case design is at my fabrication shop this morning, and I made a batch of power cables today, so with any luck I should be rolling with a working unit next thrusday/friday:)

The more I think about this the more I want to say it: IF you go into the *Phase Change* section of this wonderful forum, you have your main guys that build those units, and have a great reputation, I know this first hand as I've bought a ChiLLy1 unit last year. I believe there are 2-3 guys that build units in that section of the forums and they have excellent feedback here. I would like to be the same way, but in the *Water-Cooling* section:cool: . Let me prove myself, as I think (hope) you all will like me.

Take care peoples'

[YugenM]

Is anyone interested in what im building for the community:(

I'm interested :)

waiting for pics

[newls1]

I'm interested :)

waiting for pics

Thank you:) Makes me going through all this hassle worth it:) As soon as I get my case back from fabrication, you all will have pics.

[serialk11r]

Thank you:) Makes me going through all this hassle worth it:) As soon as I get my case back from fabrication, you all will have pics.

I hope you're case comes along well.
Have you considered different "packages" like with different rads, pump, etc?

[Plywood99]

Sounds really nice Newls. Hope this works out for you...


Ply

[someonee]

I was going to get
Inland Robela ATX Mid Tower Case with Built-in Water Cooling Top USB, FireWire and Audio Ports http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1649624&CatId=1509

I did not know much about systems but I found toms hardware review off google and so it started. In a hurry online shopping I made the wrong choices and will need to return two things. But when I was saw this case I loved it but cost alot but when I saw what it could do it was not that bad. But then after the reviews there where a few problem that they had so no. And now after a friend recommending this forum I'm now hear. So I know if I originally saw this case on tigerdirect I would have bought it not knowing better. Its hard to say but I don't think people are that supportive in this forum for this new system. I know that I don't want to custom mount hardware rads to my computer but I will because I want that extra power with half the cost of top end cpu. You people are crazy your probably in the 1&#37; of computer users. Ideas work marketing is another story takes time and a good service is hard to do a product easier to do but less money. I'm no expert or not even successfully but I know a little about business. If it can be thought of it can be done and there is a hugh market out there you just need to make demand people will follow. Who realy needs this stuff nobody a old computer will work fine who cares but people want carp they feel they need it. Consumerism capitalism that is what America is made of and it works. I have two suggestions find one or two people to encouraged you in business mentor instill hope if you have a sold plain. And two my idea for marketing is build a unit and talk to the top people online as far as the reviews things like cnet.com toms hardware review and pick out top 20 or 10 to send the unit to. Then ask them to personally review it for them selfs tell you what they think like so on then build a better cheaper whatever makes them happy. Maybe you need two let the pre reviewers have your case or something in return for there input but I bet they will understand your situations and be happy as a computer nut to do it for very cheap or free. Then after you send if off too a few big guys if they will do that then you have a sold case you need to patten the design as that would end this business venture very quickly. And then let them give it a full reviews officially and see what happens . After you have big reviews try to get it mainstream dell gateway so on or make your own online thing whatever. They will consider your case if it is one like cnet and other places because of the jones effect. That is one thing to try there probably is not much money in the case but there will be if you have mass sales. But any business takes lots of time you need good advice so you don't lose much needed money time and image building your name. Its not easy but if you have support it make it livable.

[newls1]

I was going to get
Inland Robela ATX Mid Tower Case with Built-in Water Cooling Top USB, FireWire and Audio Ports http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1649624&CatId=1509

I did not know much about systems but I found toms hardware review off google and so it started. In a hurry online shopping I made the wrong choices and will need to return two things. But when I was saw this case I loved it but cost alot but when I saw what it could do it was not that bad. But then after the reviews there where a few problem that they had so no. And now after a friend recommending this forum I'm now hear. So I know if I originally saw this case on tigerdirect I would have bought it not knowing better. Its hard to say but I don't think people are that supportive in this forum for this new system. I know that I don't want to custom mount hardware rads to my computer but I will because I want that extra power with half the cost of top end cpu. You people are crazy your probably in the 1% of computer users. Ideas work marketing is another story takes time and a good service is hard to do a product easier to do but less money. I'm no expert or not even successfully but I know a little about business. If it can be thought of it can be done and there is a hugh market out there you just need to make demand people will follow. Who realy needs this stuff nobody a old computer will work fine who cares but people want carp they feel they need it. Consumerism capitalism that is what America is made of and it works. I have two suggestions find one or two people to encouraged you in business mentor instill hope if you have a sold plain. And two my idea for marketing is build a unit and talk to the top people online as far as the reviews things like cnet.com toms hardware review and pick out top 20 or 10 to send the unit to. Then ask them to personally review it for them selfs tell you what they think like so on then build a better cheaper whatever makes them happy. Maybe you need two let the pre reviewers have your case or something in return for there input but I bet they will understand your situations and be happy as a computer nut to do it for very cheap or free. Then after you send if off too a few big guys if they will do that then you have a sold case you need to patten the design as that would end this business venture very quickly. And then let them give it a full reviews officially and see what happens . After you have big reviews try to get it mainstream dell gateway so on or make your own online thing whatever. They will consider your case if it is one like cnet and other places because of the jones effect. That is one thing to try there probably is not much money in the case but there will be if you have mass sales. But any business takes lots of time you need good advice so you don't lose much needed money time and image building your name. Its not easy but if you have support it make it livable.

Thank you for your input :) all those seem like great goals, but just REALLY hard to reach. I wouldn't think DELL would want anything to do with external W/Cing?

[newls1]

so when are we going to see some pics? Anything?

andyc

I'm going to be picking up my 2nd designed case from the shop tonight (3/30/07) and will let you all know how it goes. As with fabricating custom cases, there will always be room for error, so I might not beable to take it home with me today:( But I shall see how good of a job this place did in a few hours from now.

[newls1]

Finally pickup my newly re-designed case today and I think it looks great. Im trial fitting everything in it now, and then will primer it, and coat the sucker:) These cases will have a "HAMMER" type paint, very strong and resistant to most scratches. I will do 3 coats for EVERY CASE. I will have pics up soon, I promise you.

[newls1]

Alright people, here are the pictures of my water case. Please guys be nice;) I have a lot of time into this as well as money, and I dont even have a job so money means everything to me right now:( . The case has its 2nd coat of finish and has yet to cure so I can't lay a 3rd coat down. Obviously I will be using a triple 120mm rad and very good parts I think you all will respect. I can't assemble everything yet due to the paint not "FULLY CURED" yet, and im still waiting for all my molex pins to show up so I can finish all my custom wiring. Im using all BRASS screws for the plexi glass so it will look VERY nice, and not EVER show any kind of rust. The case also has 3 coats INSIDE as-well, and will have fully sleeved cables (all made by me) Custom lighting, & drainage system:) , and many other really neat ideas. I dont want to go into FULL detail until I can present you a final product. I REALLY HOPE YOU LIKE IT, AS I PLAN (HOPE) TO MAKE THEM FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS EM:) I would love to make this a nice and small business;) Just like those phase change guys do with their units. I will be selling these with the D-Tek FuZion block, but you can choose from others as well, or no block at all. Anyways, here are the pics, and PLEASE be nice to me, I've literally spent the very last of my little bit of money in hopes I can make this work for me.

This is a 3 piece cover that I have had TIG welded into 1 piece, I love the way it came out (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0821eu0.jpg)

This is another view of the cover assembly (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0822ec9.jpg)

This is the inside of the cover piece still in the primer stage (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0824lr6.jpg)

This is the side of the case where the RAD will be (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0825ot7.jpg)

This is an inside view of the case. Only on 2nd coat, 3rd will be tomorrow (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0826kk7.jpg)

This is with the cover assembly on the case, but without using the screws cause the paint still isn't cured enough yet to put it on, and I didnt want any scratches. I put a rather large window of plexi on the top so you can see in and you can see in from the sides as well. I really like it, hope you do as-well. (http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0827kk1.jpg)

I feel better now that i've shown you all the pics, however please keep in mind that this is still a work in progress. This case will fit perfectly on the top of any PC case as it is the same width (slightly smaller) and the length is perfect so it wont hang off the back OR if you have a large desk just keep it on the desk. For you benchers out there, I would think this would be a welcomed addition. The case is 100&#37; TIG welded for strength, and brass hardware through out;) . The paint im using is what they call a "HAMMER" textured paint EXTREMELY strong, and scratch resistant when fully cured. I have tested it on a piece of metal stock that I had laying around, I put the paint on the metal stock I had, and stuck it in the oven at 200 degrees for 30 minutes then let it sit out side to finish cooling, came back to it the next morning, I can literally take a pen to it press hard and nothing will scratch it. I think this will end up being a great paint.

Anyways, I want to thank the community here for allowing me to present this all to you, and hope you all think it is turning out nicely. Of course people are going to have mixed opinions, but lets keep it nice please:p: . As far as pricing goes, im not EXACTLY sure at the moment, but feel free to drop me a PM and I can give you an estimate. My direct email is newls1@bellsouth.net if you want to email me. Thank you everyone,

Seth D.

[serialk11r]

Wait a sec, it goes on top of the case? It looks very very nice though. I just don't think it would look good on top of a case.

[newls1]

Wait a sec, it goes on top of the case? It looks very very nice though. I just don't think it would look good on top of a case.

It can go any where you want it:) In person though I think it looks nice on top of my Aero cool case. Also I like your avitar

[serialk11r]

It can go any where you want it:) In person though I think it looks nice on top of my Aero cool case. Also I like your avitar

There will be LCD panels correct?

[newls1]

There will be LCD panels correct?

NO, and I knew someone would have asked that. I couldn't fit that in with my price range i was shooting for. I was thinking about using those 6 dollar P.O.S LCD readout display that are horribly inaccurate, but decided it was better to leave it out, you know what I mean.......

[newls1]

that looks really, really, really very nice. excellent job. That will be incredibly appealing and sell very well to all newcomers if you can get your message out. That is very promising. great job again.

what i really want to see is all the parts and everything in. the most appealing thing is top of the line preassembled parts in a beautifully appealing enclosure. that is great. just a quick suggstion though- if you put a window on the middle panel of the cover that would add to it a lot

when do you think you will have all the paint and all the glass and parts in for pics?

Of the 3 pieces of the cover 2 of which do have windows. I couldn't add a little window in that liitle middle section ( I DID AT FIRST MOCK UP) when we went to TIG it together, structurally the piece warped BAD, cause I guess to much metal was removed and the heat warped it. Keep the little middle section in tact, cured that issue.:) Thank you VERY VERY much for the kind reply. As far as a 100&#37; complete working unit, That should be late next week as im waiting for all my molex pins and adapters for all my custom wiring.

[NaeKuh]

wow... anyone starting to get worried about the size/weight of this thing?

Full loaded with coolant, that thing might get very heavy. Can i ask how you intend to power this unit? Are you going to use a pico psu? or you going to custom a DC one all together?

[newls1]

wow... anyone starting to get worried about the size/weight of this thing?

Full loaded with coolant, that thing might get very heavy. Can i ask how you intend to power this unit? Are you going to use a pico psu? or you going to custom a DC one all together?

Not heavy at all. Its not like im using 3/8th thick steel:p: As far as powering it, I'll show you all when im all done.

[newls1]

that will be a huge hit and sell very well, but the key is spreading the word and telling everyone. i am very supportive of this project because it has a great amount of potential. newcomers will be instantly attracted, and with the performance as well it will be great.

you need to start a website to spread this around and show it on many forums.

now i have a couple more questions:
you are preassembling absolutely everything in this and then selling it? that will cost a lot with all nice parts, and around 350 total. that is very expensive, but are you just selling just the enclosure or everything?

I'll sell anything I can! If someone just wants a case, so be it.... I look at it this way: People can buy a kit like this (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=202&products_id=4619) triple 120 rad and all, and still be left with the question, "WHERE THE HELL AM I GOING TO MOUNT ALL THIS?" I simplify this by providing an external inclosure all top shelf parts, and should be around 350 as-well maybe a little more, or a little less, not exact on price yet. To answer your question above, I do assemble everything and sell the complete unit, but if a customer wants a different cpu block, different RAD fans then what I use (Yate Loons) I can try to help them out. Im a personable guy and have always be working in the retail arena, I'll provide great customer service (like www.shoppts.com) does, and hope to make friends along the way!

[AuroraProject]

Are you having a machine shop make the cuts and bends? Some of the cuts look uneven, and the edges don't seem to match up. I like the idea and where you're going with it, but at this point it seems a little rough.

[newls1]

Are you having a machine shop make the cuts and bends? Some of the cuts look uneven, and the edges don't seem to match up. I like the idea and where you're going with it, but at this point it seems a little rough.

It isn't 100% exact, but I believe it looks just fine. They use a plasma cutter to cut out the metal, the pictures may make it look rough, but in person it is nice and smooth. When the plexi is on, it looks killer.

[newls1]

Calling it a night everyone, it is 10:25pm where im at and im tired. I have about 13 hours into this case today, and just want to pass out now. I'll reply to all posts in the morning

Take care everyone.

[newls1]

OK 100&#37; completed:D I feel so much better now. I think this cooler is freaking awesome, but of course my opinion is biased:D . I want to show you all the pictures, but im worried that someone might copy me?? P.S........I love my built in drain port!

[Chas_The_Man]

Nice! Not the most modern looking piece of equipment though. Hopefully a few lights and switches will gussy it up. Theres a severe shortage of things like this around.

[newls1]

Nice! Not the most modern looking piece of equipment though. Hopefully a few lights and switches will gussy it up. Theres a severe shortage of things like this around.

Thanks....... I am here to help:)

[Petra]

So this is what Quoc has been telling me about for the past couple weeks! The basic shell looks pretty nice :)

Any chance you might be able to send us some photos of the finished prototype? :D

[ColonelCain]

Maybe you could pm some people?

[p8ntslinger676]

no pics, come on you know XS better than that, and we should know better than to steal. i just want to see how it turned out after those preliminary drawings you sent me cus it seemed like a cool idea :D or at least pm me them to see cus im excited to see it.

[chunkylover77]

I would love to see this as well. I used to own an external box and absolutely loved it. Regret selling it to this day. The thing I love about external is you can get any case you want. And I'm a big time case whore. Would love to see you get this up and running.

[newls1]

Hey P8NTSLINGER676 & SOCCERSWIM8, I want to thank you guys for all your interest since I began this idea. P8NTSLINGER676, thank you for offering to help with the case at the beginning, but you know how ideas go, they change every minute, and it would have been to much of a hassle to keep sending you different case ideas, and i'm sure you understand what I mean. Here are 99&#37; complete pictures, the only thing left to do is hose clamp everything.

Imageshack seems to be down at the moment, so I cant show them to you all yet I guess.

Let me explain how you power this waterbox. The back of the unit has 2 MOLEX connections, and 1 switch (I'll explain the switch later) I provide you (customer) 2 molex cables (made by yours truly:p: ) and a PCI pass thru bracket. Simply install the PCI pass thru bracket into your PC, and then connect my 2 molex cables from the PCI pass thru bracket, to the 2 connections in the back of my water box. DONE! With those 2 connections made, your powering the pump, fan controller and the 2 4" CCFL's;) . The switch on the back of the unit controls the "ON or OFF" function of the lights. The only MOD you (the customer) will have to do is drill "2" 1 inch holes to your case as I ran 1/2" tubing for my waterbox so I could get every last drop of performance from it. People say use 7'16ths tubing as it doesnt hurt performance, but even If I did use 7/16's line, the tubing still gets squashed pretty bad going through the PCI expansion area, so I stuck with true 1/2inch tubing for everything. I provide the 2 grommets so no worry there:) . Also there will be an included allen key for the drain valve (and it works great, I've filled and flushed this system 3 times for testing purposes)

All the wiring inside the case is very neat and for the most part sleeved. The inside of this case has neon blue CCFL's, but different colors are always available. Taking the cover off the water box is a breeze, so filling the unit is very easy with the top of the RES being right in front of you. I personally kept the cover off till all the bleeding was done, and I find having the RAD on its side and slightly off level, made bleeding this unit MUCH EASIER then my personal PC which has pretty much the same stuff, but my RAD is on top of my case. I love my "thumb screw" usage for the RAD on the outside of the box, really breaks things up a little bit. Im using YATE LOON fans, so it is VERY quiet to say the least. Pricing is still something I have to go over, but will have the answer later today. I still have to make 1 more external power cable for this unit, but I cant right now as im out of molex pins:mad: . I should have those later next week however. As far as the paint color for the case, This type of paint (Hammer finish) comes in i think 6 different colors: BLACK, GREY, GREEN, AND I CANT REMEMBER THE REST, just wanted to let you all know, as this mock up unit is black, I just didnt want you all to think this was the only color. I also ship/use D-Tek fuzion blocks with these:D Let me see if imageshack is up yet...........?????

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0830po5.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0831zk5.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0832cv2.jpg

http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0833ml0.jpg

Pleases feel free to PM me, and if you want to talk I'll shoot you my phone number:) Im going to take one more picture to with the whole bundle of every thing you will receive with my water box, but i'll have to do it later, as I need to leave for a moment.

[Petra]

VERY impressive-looking! :D

BTW, I have an idea for that PCI tubing pass-through which would allow for the use of 1/2" tubing without reducing the crossectional area of the flow path (and it would work without case modification). If I have a chance this weekend, I'll take a shot at modeling it for you.

[Hard H20]

newls1,

Very nice work indeed!

[newls1]

VERY impressive-looking! :D

BTW, I have an idea for that PCI tubing pass-through which would allow for the use of 1/2" tubing without reducing the crossectional area of the flow path (and it would work without case modification). If I have a chance this weekend, I'll take a shot at modeling it for you.

Thanks PETRA, and to everyone else. I just enjoy this community so much, cause everyone here is helpful. PETRA, I just got off the phone with QUOC, im shooting off an email to you all, with other stuff.;)

[newls1]

please start a new thread and post the pics with their URLs so there arent any links.

it will get more people to look at it and draw more attention to this great idea

I can build a house, I can make my 00 camaro Z28 go 9.81 in the 1/4 mile, and build PC's, BUT I DONT KNOW HOW TO LIST THE PICS USING URL'S!:p:

[newls1]

Here is a pic of "ALMOST" the complete package. The only thing it is missing is a second molex cable I believe.

http://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0834ac8.jpg

[newls1]

now that is awesome!!

i suggest starting a new thread to show everyone and getting the pic's url and posting them without links.

what is the flow line? pump>res> ?

and how does that power thing work? it looks awesome.

definitely start a new thread for this though

The flow line is this RES-PUMP-RAD-CPU BLOCK-RES. I like this flow a little better.

[newls1]

lol

when you post there is that mountain icon with a yellow background called "insert image"

right click on you pic in imageshack, press copy image location, and paste it under the insert image button.

wow that is some impressive stuff there! lol

now start that thread!

Hey, thanks..... Is someone going to yell at me for starting a new thread about this:confused:

[phelan1777]

Sweet idea and nice look of it as well.

1 question, potential for swapping out parts? Different pump/res etc?

[newls1]

Sweet idea and nice look of it as well.

1 question, potential for swapping out parts? Different pump/res etc?

OF COURSE:) The RAD is held in with 4 thumb screws, and the pump is help in with velcro. The is still enough room to add BIGGER items if needed. Im not sure on the RES, but if someone is creative enough, you can make anything work.

[newls1]

OK, I'll work on that in about 20 minutes or so, I have to get a few things done first:)

[shadow of chaos]

How are temps? these should be as good as the kit inside them really, and not like the koolance exos etc.. in other words, the kit in this external housing should be as good as that kit inside the pc.

How about altering fan speed? not possible?

i had an idea of like a water level monitor to go in the res aswell, like if it goes below a certain level it could beep so you know it needs a top up or whatever.. not really essential though as you can see the res through the window anyway.

Seems really good, but wouldnt having a high end gpu & cpu all in one loop on a triple thermochill rad make temps go a little high?, especially if you are overclocking.. Shame 2 rads cant fit in there.

[septim]

looks roomy enough for other types of res, like the multioption...
some sort of handle would also be nice...

[newls1]

It seems as though my thread got locked (the other thread i've made) for selling outside the classifieds. What do you all think I should do?

[septim]

re post in the right thread next time.
at least the one here is still good, this is basically a watercooling idea.
don't mention pricing in this thread, do it via pms and emails, or
in the selling thread.

*i think in a reply above post you mentioned a price, better edit that said post.

hmm also nice case for and external pump rad res you got there.

[newls1]

OK......For pictures and buying of the product, please click this link for now on. It is my understanding that I broke a rule here (I apologize for that too) and started a thread in the classifieds section here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2115921&posted=1#post2115921)

[newls1]

Thank you, and 1 more note to everyone...... I bought some new case cover screws to help in appearance, will see how they look in about 20 minutes.

[newls1]

that link doesnt work.

just put up a thread with pictures and prices in the selling section

A mod put my stuff in the SERVICES section:) I have new updated pics using new case screws (brass, threw out the sheet metal ones):)

[newls1]

Here is the link for everyone http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139984
Not much going on in that section & to be honest with you all I feel like i'm in DETENTION, but I guess this is the only section for this to be in?

[SiGfever]

The screws do look a lot better but my suggestion would be to paint the expanded metal grill black.

[newls1]

The screws do look a lot better but my suggestion would be to paint the expanded metal grill black.

I tried painting the metal mesh, however I cant get the paint to stick as the mesh is GALVANIZED and I can't get my paint to stick at all! I think it looks great the way it is......... Can someone post in my new thread, as its getting lonely in there:D

[SiGfever]

I tried painting the metal mesh, however I cant get the paint to stick as the mesh is GALVANIZED and I can't get my paint to stick at all! I think it looks great the way it is......... Can someone post in my new thread, as its getting lonely in there:D
If it is galvanized you will need to "pickle" it before you can paint it. Rinse it with vinegar and then it will accept paint.

Oh and if you mean in the "Classified Section" only you can post to your thread, all else must PM. (Thanks Vapor I was having a Senior Moment).:)

[newls1]

If it is galvanized you will need to "pickle" it before you can paint it. Rinse it with vinegar and then it will accept paint.

Oh and if you mean in the "Classified Section" only you can post to your thread, all else must PM.

Im in the "SERVICES" section

[SiGfever]

Im in the "SERVICES" section
Same situation. :)

[madmat]

Newls, I hate to tell you this but the link to your new thread keeps bringing me up to a not authorized message. I'm afraid your link is borked or from some point in time where you were modifying the post.

[newls1]

What link guys? Oh, and whats up madmat!

[newls1]

I cant understand why? Can you all go into the SERVICES section at all?

[newls1]

try this: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139984

[shadow of chaos]

you say the best stuff is in this wc box, but i always hear thermochill rads and a DDC pump are best :confused: i have no idea how that stuff performs..

[ziddey]

I think the main problem is that when you have say a custom made phase box, it takes a lot more work and expertise including a lot more labor internally. With this, you're just using a much of swiftech parts, and most people will see that it's the same as what they could do themselves.

Shadow, thermochill's are the best, but more expensive by a wide margin. DDC with a top is really good, but the D5 is pretty much just as good, and uses 1/2" barbs natively.


Like I mentioned in another thread, perhaps a better idea would have been to go with a stronger ac pump. I'm not sure of many since I haven't done much research, but I believe eheim has some. It'd help for the longer distance of tubing.

While tchill is good, it's about twice the price. Perhaps, going with two mcr320's or two mcr220's and using wye's to split the flow to reduce drop. Using two 220's should be about the performance of pa120.3 iirc, and using 2 220's can possible make it shorter

[Mekrel]

you say the best stuff is in this wc box, but i always hear thermochill rads and a DDC pump are best :confused: i have no idea how that stuff performs..

Thermochill rads would have bumped the price up due to the OP residing in the US and the D5, well not as good but not far off and probably a higher level of reliability than a DDC.

[ziddey]

There are also 120mm fans that run off 120/240v ac power if I'm not mistaken. Maybe if you got two mcr220s set up to form a 240, you could use a 240mm ac fan if there are any with a shroud. It's a shame I didn't think more sooner, since it's already went through production and can't really be changed now

I think your best audience might be to do a website or see if you can get some etailers like petras to carry your product. those from these enthusiast websites would probably most usually want to do their own kind of rig

edit: this is something that might catch your eye http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136885

[shadow of chaos]

The temp drop would be worth it tho on a thermochill rad right? id much rather have one of those in there..

How much of a difference is there between that pump and a DDC? performance/temp wise.

[serialk11r]

The temp drop would be worth it tho on a thermochill rad right? id much rather have one of those in there..

How much of a difference is there between that pump and a DDC? performance/temp wise.

You can't predict the temps, but it has higher max pressure, so you can expect slightly higher flow.

[shadow of chaos]

well guess ill wait until we get some performance tests done, like to see some tests done on a C2D dual and quad core, highly clocked and see the temps etc before i can decide.. want to compare the temps to other setups first.

[Mekrel]

Depends what you have on the loop, if it's processor only I doubt you will see much difference in temperatures.

Also, it's a good price considering the conversion from dollars to pounds. Would depend on shipping price and customs.

[shadow of chaos]

Depends what you have on the loop, if it's processor only I doubt you will see much difference in temperatures.

Also, it's a good price considering the conversion from dollars to pounds. Would depend on shipping price and customs.

it depends how it gets sent, ive had stuff before and people have deliberately put something different on the label of the parcel to avoid the import tax..

Btw ideally ill be having just the GPU and CPU in a single loop, its gonna be a R600 perhaps. So it might not be great for ocing the cpu with that gpu in the loop, since it will cause alot of heat.

[madmat]

Still a big negatory. This is what I got.

madmat, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Apparently you need 100 posts to access the classifieds section and as this is like my third post since I joined in '04 I should have 100 posts up about... say 2107.

[lowfat]

I just saw the pics in the for sale thread. Looks great but just a few suggestions which would make it look much better in my opinion.
1. Sleeve the cables inside, i think it really takes away the clean look.
2.I believe having the fan on the outside of the radiator instead of the inside would make it a little more presentable also.

[Mekrel]

it depends how it gets sent, ive had stuff before and people have deliberately put something different on the label of the parcel to avoid the import tax..

Btw ideally ill be having just the GPU and CPU in a single loop, its gonna be a R600 perhaps. So it might not be great for ocing the cpu with that gpu in the loop, since it will cause alot of heat.

Nah it will be fine if it isn't a quad.

I have a RD600 (Hot NB) a X1900XT and a E6600 on a PA120.2 and even with 1.55v through CPU I didn't even reach 50 degrees under orthos.

[septim]

IanY, i agree with the diff hole spacing for the PA, maybe newls1 can pre-drill said holes, or just wait for the order, cause it is a per order custom job.

*BTW his link to the services page works fine.
*a comment on the expanded wire/screen on top: more dust to get inside box...

[shadow of chaos]

Depends what you have on the loop, if it's processor only I doubt you will see much difference in temperatures.

Also, it's a good price considering the conversion from dollars to pounds. Would depend on shipping price and customs.


Nah it will be fine if it isn't a quad.

I have a RD600 (Hot NB) a X1900XT and a E6600 on a PA120.2 and even with 1.55v through CPU I didn't even reach 50 degrees under orthos.

Guess im screwed then, i was planning my next setup to be a quad.

[rbd89]

why cant i get into the classifieds???

i have 100+ posts but i cant get in!! ugh

I think you also have to be a member for a certain amount of time, that may be the issue.

[ziddey]

haha he's long time member

[shadow of chaos]

dang if only it were suited to a higher load :(

me wants R600 & a quad connected with high ocs

[serialk11r]

i am not though. darn. must be two months or something.

anyone know the requirements? mods?

No, there's no time requirement...
Ask an admin what's going on...
I got access to the FS section in 1 week :D But that's me :p:

[Mekrel]

dang if only it were suited to a higher load :(

me wants R600 & a quad connected with high ocs

Then wait, I really don't see why you would want to buy a quad unless you want to run synthetic benchmarks with 4 threads all day.

It's not a question of what apps use quad core, it's a question of is the price of a quad worth it when in reality not a lot of apps use more than one! Which is true when you think about the software out there. Yeah the O/S will help about with SMP when a lot is going on.

These chips just put out too much heat due to the fact there are two dies, plus motherboard support for overclocking is limited as only 965 and eVGA 680i only really clock well (and RD600 if you get the thing to play ball).

[shadow of chaos]

Then wait, I really don't see why you would want to buy a quad unless you want to run synthetic benchmarks with 4 threads all day.

It's not a question of what apps use quad core, it's a question of is the price of a quad worth it when in reality not a lot of apps use more than one! Which is true when you think about the software out there. Yeah the O/S will help about with SMP when a lot is going on.

These chips just put out too much heat due to the fact there are two dies, plus motherboard support for overclocking is limited as only 965 and eVGA 680i only really clock well (and RD600 if you get the thing to play ball).

I might get a C2D dual core at first, depends.. but price drops are coming soon which will cut the price of the quads in half and make them much more appealing.

The fact you say that this wont be able to handle a r600 & quad though puts me off it.. not too good for future cpu's

[Mekrel]

Well not a lot can handle a quad when clocked. When on 1.5v and running at a certain speed (Marci said which speed, I forget now what that figure was) then they put out more watts of heat than a unmodded Phase change unit can handle.

Not sure on R600, all we have is rumours as to how much heat they put out. I don't think we will see half price cuts on processors, maybe the retail outlets will see a good drop in getting them, but I bet they keep a good margin on them.

[shadow of chaos]

Well not a lot can handle a quad when clocked. When on 1.5v and running at a certain speed (Marci said which speed, I forget now what that figure was) then they put out more watts of heat than a unmodded Phase change unit can handle.

Not sure on R600, all we have is rumours as to how much heat they put out. I don't think we will see half price cuts on processors, maybe the retail outlets will see a good drop in getting them, but I bet they keep a good margin on them.

There is another thread that someone has his watercooled quad to 3.6ghz 1.5v and only gets 63c under load

[sacha35]

This setup will work very well,I must say you have done a good job with it and the lay out, I did the same sort of thing with my PC early last year and got some very good benches from this setup, here are some pics for your viewing.

Sorry guys pictures removed at the request of newls1

Hear is a link to this item:http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138208

[shadow of chaos]

Sacha35, is that a water chiller? it looks like theres a rad in there, if so, how come it says ur getting 3.8c?

[newls1]

I just saw the pics in the for sale thread. Looks great but just a few suggestions which would make it look much better in my opinion.
1. Sleeve the cables inside, i think it really takes away the clean look.
2.I believe having the fan on the outside of the radiator instead of the inside would make it a little more presentable also.

The cables are sleeved. The only ones not are the 3pin fan wires however, there coiled up nicely and tucked down where they get powered. Like I said, if you see this in person, and not through my 4 year old camera, its a little different perspective.

[Mekrel]

If you can find out how much international shipping is, then you may have some custom from the UK. The pound is so strong, that $300, is like 152ish pounds or something, then a user adds a block about &#163;35 and they save some money depending on shipping costs.

I say save money as the Swiftech Apex kits go for &#163;220 plus or so I remember (cba to check).

Due to residing in the US, getting thermochill rads in is obvious more expensive than someone like me in the UK. So maybe in a future revision when you're getting on your legs, you could design the case so that you could change the rad for a thermochill one if the end user so wanted. (So you ship with the Swiffy rad, but the case could accomodate a TC rad, if end user wanted to swap).

Not sure how that would be possible though, as it would mean you couldn't go through the case for screws due to the fan spacing difference of TC rads. Yet maybe food for though.

As for a website, well I've been working on my site Meknet since before Christmas but since the last two months I've given up. I don't get time to myself much due to my job and also the domain name cost &#163;80.00 to renew so decided to stuff it.

http://www.mekerz.tsohost.co.uk/test/

If you gave me multiple good shots of your kit, I could fade them into some kind of banner to replace the picture of the Malvern Hills and give it a slogan. Then you could put a bit of info on it and a paypal link.

See how that goes, then if you get enough money then buy some cheap O/S software and see if someone could integrate it into my template or make a better site.

The site I coded is XHTML and CSS compliant :) Will work in all browsers expect IE5 as I no longer code the box model hack to support such an old browser. Which shouldn't be a problem as the target audience (Watercoolers) should be running pretty much up to date machines and be in the know about latest software.

I would love to do more on the site for you, but I would only let you down with the little time I have due to work. The offer is there.

[IanY]

Its a beautiful box :)

Why can't you post a simple bunch of pictures in this thread without a mention of the item for sale?

[newls1]

I happen to be working on new pictures now as a matter of fact.:) I'm also waiting for it to become dark, so I can show you all the box with the CCFL lighting on:cool:

[newls1]

Im back with some updated pictures.... These pictures show the unit at night with the CCFL's on. My camera isn't the greatest!

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8556/dscf0847ly9.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4963/dscf0850kt3.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7829/dscf0851su7.jpg

[Plywood99]

Newls that is a beast of a box! External is not my thing but I like what you have done...


Ply

[newls1]

appreciate it sir, Thank you:cool:

[sacha35]

Is a very nice box and i think it will offer good cooling, just one thing though you might want to think about a case with all this inside that can be bolted to the bottom of a PC and then connected as this might be better for some that want a good setup.

[newls1]

Is a very nice box and i think it will offer good cooling, just one thing though you might want to think about a case with all this inside that can be bolted to the bottom of a PC and then connected as this might be better for some that want a good setup.

I have 2 or 3 more case designs I would like to produce, and that is one of the ideas :D

[IanY]

Make one that looks seamless with a Silverstone TJ-07 or some darn Lian Li V2000 or PC-G70B, and your orders will come rolling in.

[shadow of chaos]

if you make one with a dual loop and 2 pa 120.3's (one for cpu, one for gfx) i will be sure to buy one of these boxes.

[Philly_Boy]

well guess ill wait until we get some performance tests done, like to see some tests done on a C2D dual and quad core, highly clocked and see the temps etc before i can decide.. want to compare the temps to other setups first.


if you make one with a dual loop and 2 pa 120.3's (one for cpu, one for gfx) i will be sure to buy one of these boxes.
I am going to request he build a review sample that will accomodate a PA120.3 (or two *wink*) and ship it to me. I'll stuff it with my PA120.3, 2x MCP355's with Petra's top, my EK multi option 150 res and connect it thru 10 feet of tube running thru my home made iced salt water chiller into my Swifty MCW6500-T TEC block and see if it'll allow me my elusive 100% oc (3.72ghz) on my dandy little E6300 (currently at 3.5ghz @ 1.6 vcore under the TEC block at -9c idle and 7C loaded) and report my findings.

By the time I am done the QX6700 will be here to really test the box out. I think we have a darling external box that can come in different sizes and shapes to accomodate almost anything an end user wants to accomplish....GFX loop...or CPU loop or a big multi block loop.....leaving room in your case for other mods......like built in phase change.....oops! Sorry....temporarily forgot this is the water cooling forum...*Smile*

[InTheFlow]

Looks pretty sharp.

When I first started my WCing research, I wanted an external box to use with the case I had at the time. Would have saved me a large amount of cash. Not that I regret what I did...it was a lot of fun to design & then build it. However, if your idea had been an option I may have made a different choice at the time.

I wish you luck.:)

[shadow of chaos]

I am going to request he build a review sample that will accomodate a PA120.3 (or two *wink*) and ship it to me. I'll stuff it with my PA120.3, 2x MCP355's with Petra's top, my EK multi option 150 res and connect it thru 10 feet of tube running thru my home made iced salt water chiller into my Swifty MCW6500-T TEC block and see if it'll allow me my elusive 100&#37; oc (3.72ghz) on my dandy little E6300 (currently at 3.5ghz @ 1.6 vcore under the TEC block at -9c idle and 7C loaded) and report my findings.

Well that will be interesting, only those results wont do much good for me seeings as you are using a TEC block.. isnt that a little bit dangerous? if the tec fails, your cpu is pretty much dead. Ive looked into these before, if they were pretty much fail proof i would get one. I'm sure it requires a seperate meaty psu to function properly aswell.

[newls1]

what do you guys think about me building 1 around a MCR220 rad? It will be a less expensive, and could grab the crowd that doesnt need a slightly large case, and a 3.120mm rad. Would be great for CPU only loops, or loops that cool the CPU and N.B? What do you think? The case would be smaller.....

[Chas_The_Man]

I think that market is saturated. There are tones of single / double units. Yours in Unique. Id work on fit & Finish and lowering the current price point if possible. And upping the options, let people spec out pump / rad etc.

THEN come out with a double unit which will sell better probably but the flagship needs to be right.

[newls1]

I don't think im going to call this one the "flagship" (although it is a HIGHEND cooler) my flagship cooler (or WaterKeg as I like to call them now) will feature dual radiators, and dual loops out of the box:) Im trying to create a casing for it now...... I take this idea from all of those who said to try a dual rad setup. Im taking everyones advice and slowly trying to make something happen

[Sideroxylon]

I don't think im going to call this one the "flagship" (although it is a HIGHEND cooler) my flagship cooler (or WaterKeg as I like to call them now) will feature dual radiators, and dual loops out of the box:) Im trying to create a casing for it now...... I take this idea from all of those who said to try a dual rad setup. Im taking everyones advice and slowly trying to make something happen

Good thing you have LOTS of money. :woot: Can't imagine all this being cheap.

[newls1]

Good thing you have LOTS of money. :woot: Can't imagine all this being cheap.

Have none, thanks:D . I'm having to do cash advances on a credit card for some, and regular charge for the rest:nono: . I honestly have NO spending money. Im taking a chance at this, with the hopes I can continue doing this, plus make some customers PC's happy:)

[IanY]

Have none, thanks:D . I'm having to do cash advances on a credit card for some, and regular charge for the rest:nono: . I honestly have NO spending money. Im taking a chance at this, with the hopes I can continue doing this, plus make some customers PC's happy:)

Guy,

Set up a Limited Liability Company in a low/no tax state. Deleware or Nevada would be good. Its worth it just protecting yourself and your assets. Costs very little.

With that, you may set up a company checking account, and potentially build company credit history for a line of credit.

I hope you have a 0&#37; cash advance feature on your credit card because being fleeced at 13% or 19% or 21% isn't my idea of fun.

[newls1]

How do you agree with this: 2 pumps, 2 rads (mcr320, mcr220) 2 T-lines, all for 2 loops coming out of 1 box. Should I build this?

[Hard H20]

Guy,

Set up a Limited Liability Company in a low/no tax state. Deleware or Nevada would be good. Its worth it just protecting yourself and your assets. Costs very little.

With that, you may set up a company checking account, and potentially build company credit history for a line of credit.

I hope you have a 0% cash advance feature on your credit card because being fleeced at 13% or 19% or 21% isn't my idea of fun.

newls1,

Listen to Ian, setup a LLC in Nevada, protect yourself and your personal assets immediately. By doing this it's a win/win all the way around.

Back on topic.

I understand start up costs are an issue at the moment. I personally would not buy the 2 loop setup with the components you have listed. That's not saying others won't. I would suggest you make a run at this all or nothing. Only going half way because of limited funding you will end up with just another 'crap kit' in a market already full of them. Please don't take this as a dig/dis/flame/knock it is not. I'm just being realistic. I would suggest if your target group is the WC enthusiast community you use what the community supports currently. The trick will be to keep the boxes evolving as components are updated.

I wish you the best of luck in your venture, with a little patience, and a solid business plan, I'm sure you can make a successful go of it.

[IanY]

My business advice comes free :) I'm sure a lawyer would be happy to listen to you, but at $250 an hour :)

Sit down for two hours and write a proper business plan. Just a draft would be good. You need something to start with. State your objectives - immediate and one-year horizon. Write down your product strategy and your marketing strategy. State your cash resources, how much you have and how much you need to borrow.

Take your time over the next month to polish up this document. You will need this document to secure venture capital financing and/or a bank loan. BTW, this is my profession.

[phelan1777]

I want to say this, from a consumer aspect, and being what I have seen here on XS since (as far as I know) this is where you are making your ideas known.

like I mentioned earlier, options, options for parts. Now I know this is easier said then done.

If you are going to AIM for the Enthusiasts more often then not, flexibility will be a key element.

WE like OPTIONS, or taking something that is not supposed to do something and making it do something we want it to, i.e. over clocking/modding.

If I were you, (just my :.002:) I would go for a base line idea, and as it grows it can be shaped and molded, but for getting it off the ground, don't pull back on the stick to early, let the project gain lift, before you know it, if designed right, she will take you for a ride ;-).

Dunno if this will help much.

K.I.S.S...........one of the greatest sayings in known English language. You can always provide options later, also can react to customer demand.

[newls1]

How do you agree with this: 2 pumps, 2 rads (mcr320, mcr220) 2 T-lines, all for 2 loops coming out of 1 box. Should I build this?

Are we in agreeance that I should hold off on this build, setup an LLC first, then try to the best of my ability produce/sell my first design, THEN as things progress (hopefully) then continue making different designs? This sounds about right, but I thought that having 2 different "WaterKegs" would be providing "options" as it is somewhat difficult adding different parts to these cases, although CAN BE DONE. The only downside I can for-see for my KingKeg build (dual loop) is the price. Would someone really buy a 400+ dollar watercooler? I made the case up already (mocked up with cardboard:p: ) came out good, close to what this one looks like, just a "HAIR" larger, with a couple different angles. I'm going to take a break right now, and wait to see what you all agree with. I really give a "HUGE" THANK YOU to everyone who has helped my through this, and to all of you who have givin me some legal advice as to what to do.
Everyone Take Care

Seth

[IanY]

Can't work off consensus, dude. You can get opinions, yes. However, the major decisions have to come from you, the chief executive.

Experience shows a few things: (1) you normally learn to walk before you run, (2) if you run before you walk stably, you may be fast, but you may fall down, (3) before you fall down, you would want to build a safety net, (4) you make friends to help you learn to walk as fast as possible, and then run as fast as possible, (5) after you learn to run fast, you remain grateful to those who helped you along the way.

[Hard H20]

Seth,

Establish yourself first, look before you leap. Win, Lose, or Draw you will never know what might have been if you never try. Just remember if you don't legally protect yourself a failed business can impact your personal finances for the better part of your life. We can offer all of the advice we want to but it's your neck on the chopping block here. I would take it 1 step at a time and go with your gut instinct. My 2 pennies.

[shadow of chaos]

These people know what they are talking about

When you do make a dual loop box though can i suggest using what people consider here is the best in equipment, especially having the Thermochill rads in there.

I would still pay 300+ or 400 dollars for the box, it would still be cheap or almost as much as i could buy just the parts alone for in this country.. call it £250-270.

btw.. 2 loops means there would need to be 4 holes drilled at the back of the case for the tubes right?

[InTheFlow]

Experience shows a few things: (1) you normally learn to walk before you run, (2) if you run before you walk stably, you may be fast, but you may fall down, (3) before you fall down, you would want to build a safety net, (4) you make friends to help you learn to walk as fast as possible, and then run as fast as possible, (5) after you learn to run fast, you remain grateful to those who helped you along the way.

Wise advice...

[ziddey]

Can't work off consensus, dude. You can get opinions, yes. However, the major decisions have to come from you, the chief executive.

Experience shows a few things: (1) you normally learn to walk before you run, (2) if you run before you walk stably, you may be fast, but you may fall down, (3) before you fall down, you would want to build a safety net, (4) you make friends to help you learn to walk as fast as possible, and then run as fast as possible, (5) after you learn to run fast, you remain grateful to those who helped you along the way.

wow. i was thinking the same thing, but didn't know how to put it as kindly as possible. glad you found the words.

that said, your product is indeed decent as it is, if it's the current final plan, and hopefully you can sell enough to build some funds to upgrade to a better platform

[newls1]

Hi everyone.... I picked up another case today for my second build. Im going to be using a Light Grey/Silver finish this time around to see how this color comes out. If you want to see some pictures, I have pics of the shell opened and the white primer drying.

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6361/dscf0852if2.jpg

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/1787/dscf0853lp2.jpg

[shadow of chaos]

Looking good, and wide :p:

big enough for 2 rads i see?

[newls1]

Looking good, and wide :p:

big enough for 2 rads i see?

No this isnt the double rad case. This is still the same single triple rad case.

[shadow of chaos]

oh ok, thought it looked bigger for some reason

[rbd89]

I have changed the plans for the case above................It getting THERMOCHILLED:) Just ordered a PA120.3 and can't believe how long that sucker is. My case should still be able to hold it, but with some slight modification. Stay tuned

lol I thought you were out of money? Anyways seems like a great idea and I really hope that it works out for you. Good Luck.

[newls1]

lol I thought you were out of money? Anyways seems like a great idea and I really hope that it works out for you. Good Luck.

Credit cards are your friend (not really) in this time of matter:(

[rbd89]

Credit cards are your friend (not really) in this time of matter:(

Im sorry to hear that but im sure you'll make all the money back and more when you start putting these things into full production.

[newls1]

I'm back guys, If all goes well and my parts so up on time (ups :-o) on monday, I'm sending a review sample to a great guy here on the forums who will put my cooler to the test. I should be able to ship it out tuesday. Wish me luck guys! Also, I have plans to produce 2 more different coolers, i'll share the specs soon, but should be at least in the mockup stage in about a month or less.

If things start working out for me, I'll look into incorporating, and startup a small, but rather nice website. I'll post further updates as soon as something comes up. I removed my thread in the services section, to make an updated one using better pictures, and of a different unit. Thank you all once again for your support, and look foward to showing you all more items as I make them.

Take Care

[serialk11r]

Good luck man, I hope this, erm, business venture of yours is successful!

[shadow of chaos]

I'm back guys, If all goes well and my parts so up on time (ups :-o) on monday, I'm sending a review sample to a great guy here on the forums who will put my cooler to the test. I should be able to ship it out tuesday. Wish me luck guys! Also, I have plans to produce 2 more different coolers, i'll share the specs soon, but should be at least in the mockup stage in about a month or less.

If things start working out for me, I'll look into incorporating, and startup a small, but rather nice website. I'll post further updates as soon as something comes up. I removed my thread in the services section, to make an updated one using better pictures, and of a different unit. Thank you all once again for your support, and look foward to showing you all more items as I make them.

Take Care

Good luck with that!

i hope one of the models has 2 loops ;) :D

I'll be watching this thread over the next few weeks and see how it goes.

[newls1]

Hi everyone:) I finished another WaterKegIII today for it to be sent out to be reviewed by a certain person:cool: . This cooler was built in the same fashion as any other unit would be built. The case came out really good, I used a metallic silver finish, w/ a black mesh top. nice bright "BLUE" CCFL lights, and overall looks fantastic. I will post you all pictures tomorrow morning, Im dying to go to sleep right now, just wanted to update you all, and I hope you look forward to seeing the pictures:)
Thank you all again

Seth

[newls1]

Here are a few pictures of the finished cooler.

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4466/dscf0858lg6.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6144/dscf0859kz4.jpg

[Mekrel]

Hey mate,

Sorry didn't get any time to do the banners over the weekend (end of one promotional period, starting a new one so always hectic). Going to pick up my case from the powder coaters tomorrow so after tomorrow should find some time!

Looking good though!

[shadow of chaos]

Looks nice newls

any idea when you will be making the dual loop box?

The Pound is worth 2.00718 Dollars right now :slobber:

[newls1]

Looks nice newls

any idea when you will be making the dual loop box?

The Pound is worth 2.00718 Dollars right now :slobber:

I have to start selling some of these (above coolers) first, in order to have some sort of money to invest into the other designs. I have basically damn near maxed out my charge card (which I know is a :nono: ), but have just enough if I have to pay my mortgage with it next month. Gosh, I hope sometime soon I can start to get ahead with my bills.

**EDIT** here is a new link to my page in the "SERVICES" area
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141114

[newls1]

Hey mate,

Sorry didn't get any time to do the banners over the weekend (end of one promotional period, starting a new one so always hectic). Going to pick up my case from the powder coaters tomorrow so after tomorrow should find some time!

Looking good though!

Hey, no prob, thanks:)

[newls1]

AGSFAISFHBASDFBI

IT WONT LET ME ACCESS THE PAGE?? hey mods WHY?



i have been a member for almost two months, and i have 200+ posts

That is strange:confused:

[newls1]

I setup my first built cooler (my mock-up unit:) ) to an old case that I had laying around and thought I would show you all. I apologize for the crappy quality of the pics, but for some reason when I take the flash off, images look "smeared:confused: "

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3438/dscf0866cv2.jpg


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6669/dscf0867wd6.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/9177/dscf0862xi6.jpg


http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5935/dscf0864de8.jpg


http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/1912/dscf0868mf8.jpg

This is a picture of a new PA120.3 RAD installed. Fairly massive radiator I must say. That is also an official thermochill penquin (J/K;) )

[Isaac MM]

Looks cool.

[Istasi]

I think it would look 10000x cleaner if you used a RadGrill, or even just some rubber edge molding around the rad.

[serialk11r]

Perforated mesh+blingy lights=:) I meant LED yates by that one ;)

[newls1]

has anyone seen my link in the services area?

[Sparky]

has anyone seen my link in the services area?

That I did. Might want to bump it occasionally :)

[newls1]

i still cant access it..............

and its POing me but i tried to fix the problem and gave up

PS: put the link in your sig and post a ton of random posts a ton all over the website, also put more about it in your sig

I can't do that. I did put a link in my sig, and got an infraction for it:( . I just dont understand why a good external cooler like this one, isn't making anyone say say, "hey i'll try it!"

[Sparky]

I might have, except I wanted an internal loop.

[newls1]

I might have, except I wanted an internal loop.

well, its internal once the tubes are in your case:D

[SiGfever]

Have you considered an option to be able to secure it to the customers case?

[Vapor]

I like the design a lot! How does it do with noise insulation?

Oh, and just a friendly reminder to mind the out-of-Classifieds/Services advertising. ;)

[newls1]

I like the design a lot! How does it do with noise insulation?

Oh, and just a friendly reminder to mind the out-of-Classifieds/Services advertising. ;)

Honestly, with the fans inside the case, the noise issue isn't a concern. Personally I can barely hear the system on. I have 1 installed on top of a case setup nicely and power it on when im in the garage just to see my work in action, And a few times I forget to shut it off cause I can't hear it:cool:

[brandon12777]

Has anyone figured out why some of us can't see his link to his services post?

[jabski]

you need a certain amount of posts

[sick_g4m3r]

^ not true. my friend (soccerswim8) said that he couldnt get in with 500 posts and 2-3 months on here, and he got banned for asking. so whatever, who knows? dont push your luck and get banned though, all it takes is a tiny bit of asking and you are gone for seemingly no reason