Redbeard
11-29-2006, 12:02 PM
UPDATE: THREAD CLOSED AS OF JANUARY 10, 2007.
Due to the incredible demand for the Micron-based part, we are out of stock.
Unfortunately, due to the extraordinary demand for these parts, we are currently on backorder, meaning that we do not physically have the TWIN2X2048-8500C5D or any other Micron-based part in stock and will not until mid-to-late January, 2007.
That does not mean I won't be fulfilling orders, though. This program will continue until December 31st.
So here's the new rules:
1) If you haven't taken part in the program at all yet, please email me a copy of your receipt before December 31st, 2006, and if the receipt is dated before 11/29/06, you will be added to a pre-approved list.
2) If you've decided to take advantage of the program and have already emailed me but not sent in your memory, hold onto your memory until January 22nd, and email me again after that.
3) If you've already mailed me your parts, I will take from my very limited inventory in the order I receive modules. Hopefully this will be enough to cover those that have already sent in their memory. If I receive your memory and have no memory to send you, I will contact you directly to work something out.
Again, the program is on hiatus until mid-to-late January, 2007, and if you wish to take part in it at that time, please email me on or after January 22nd, 2007.
In order to be pre-approved for this program, I must receive your e-mail before December 31st, 2006, and your receipt must be dated before 11/29/06.
You do not have to physically send in the modules until we have parts in stock.
But I will need the email and receipt before December 31st.
Please send the receipt in JPG screenshot form, as our internal spam filter has been somewhat overzealous with attachments.
Thanks again.
There has been a lot of confusion and anger about the 6400C4D parts lately. The main point of contention seems to be that the 6400C4D parts are based primarily on Promos ICs and not on the Micron ICs that very early 6400C4 parts were based on. Since a few months ago, the Promos IC has been the primary IC used on all 6400C4 parts, and with the advent of the 6400C4D, Promos was the primary IC used from day 1. There were occasional Micron-based parts, but these were always a downbin for the small percentage of Micron ICs that did not pass our screen for 8500C5 modules. Allow me to address your concerns one by one.
1) Hey, Promos parts suck!
We use Promos 90nm parts in several of our modules. They are specially processed and tested for us by Promos using a custom flow that we have specified. They undergo further testing and screening at our facilities. Our Promos based modules are very reliable and have been tested and characterized in our lab on many different and currently popular enthusiast motherboards. Namely the Asus M2N32-SLI, and the Asus P5B Deluxe. Modules spec’d at 6400C4 using promos have been carefully tested so that they meet these specs on every motherboard we use for testing. In many cases offer very respectable overclocking capabilities when latencies are relaxed and voltage is applied. On many motherboards we have seen speeds over 900 MHz. It is true, however, that in general, Promos based modules will not overclock as well as modules built with Micron rev D parts.
We can’t really comment on modules built with untested or limited tested chips, these may not perform as well as Corsair modules. Obviously, we cannot test every motherboard and configuration but if you have some particular situation where Promos based Corsair modules do not perform to their spec, please contact us. We have always stood behind our lifetime warranty, and have never intentionally shipped a part that did not perform to its rated spec.
2) Hey, Corsair pulled a bait and switch to make extra money!
We would love to be able to build all our modules using the fastest chips in the world, unfortunately that this not only unpractical but would in no way meet the demand we have for DDR2 800 modules.
In general we try to keep building modules with the same ICs all the time. However as a practical matter we have to have two or more sources of die for any modules that we ship in volume.
For the very high speed modules, such as are currently spec’d at 1GHz or more, there is rarely more than one die type that will meet the specs. Generally, these high speed parts appeal to a very elite segment of extreme enthusiasts, and as a result, we have no problems with using a single supplier for these parts.
Micron rev D parts overclock very well and we have put in place some very extensive screening and testing programs to make sure that the modules we ship with Micron are among the best and fastest memory modules in the world.
When we send high-speed parts to reviewers, we are very careful not to change the IC on this part to an IC that doesn’t perform as well or better as this would be an obvious “bait and switch”. This is a practice that is despicable and Corsair has not and will not take part in this type of false advertising.
During the course of this event, Corsair has been accused of intentionally utilizing a bait and switch tactic and using IC revisions to confuse people. We do not use such tactics as they will never survive the scrutiny of the enthusiast crowd, obviously. We rely on our reputation for performance, quality, innovation and customer service to sell our memory. Our IC revisions are dictated by IC supply and demand and are made to enhance availability while also sustaining the required specifications.
It would be nice if we could build all our modules with specially screened Micron chips, unfortunately, this screening is very expensive and time consuming and with the limited availability of Micron ICs, we would end up meeting only a fraction of our demand and thus end up disappointing thousands of customers.
3) I thought all Dominators were Micron based and now I feel ripped off because they are not.
First, Corsair has never stated that all Dominator parts are based on Micron ICs. Second, the Dominator heatsink technology offers many good benefits, both for extreme overclocking as well as for general reliability because it makes the chips run cooler. The Promos ICs respond well to voltage, and whenever voltage increases, heat output increases. The Dominator heatsink technology more effectively cools the ICs on both Promos and Micron-based modules, and this is why it was applied. It was never designed to “trick” people into buying a Promos part.
The high end Dominators, (those spec’d over 1GHz or spec’d at 6400C3) currently use Micron chips.
Dominator modules rated at 6400C4 typically use Promos ICs because they are much more available and less expensive. When designing the 6400C4D, our intention was to address the two main complaints that people had about the Dominator modules. 1) They were too expensive, and 2) They were hard to find. The 6400C4D parts are priced to be competitive in the market, and as such, we are focusing on price point and availability, both of which prevent us from using the Micron ICs on this part. At the moment we are having a tough time keeping up with the demand for even these Promos-based modules, as they are very popular.
5) You should tell us if you change the IC on a module!
We recognize that a small number of our customers want to buy modules based on a specific IC, and we try to be very upfront with what we use on performance modules. Please be aware that most DIY enthusiasts do not buy based on IC, they buy based on the performance spec.
We do recognize that we could do this more effectively, and are working on a new way to improve the way we get make this data available to our ‘professional’ grade customers.
Corsair is willing to make amends with customers that believed they were purchasing Micron-based parts before today. We understand the confusion and would like to make the following offer to anybody who purchased a 6400C4D kit before today.
Corsair will replace your 6400C4Ds with 8500C5Ds, which are Micron based, for the difference in price. To take advantage of this offer, please write me an email with the subject line “6400C4D” and include a copy of your receipt. NOTE: This offer is only valid for people with receipts dated November 28th, 2006 or earlier. Send this email to me at georgem@corsairmemory.com
Again, please be sure to include 6400C4D in the subject line so that your replacement can be processed correctly.
Corsair appreciates your understanding in this matter, and we look forward to serving the enthusiast community in the future by continuing to make the world’s fastest memory. Thank you.
Due to the incredible demand for the Micron-based part, we are out of stock.
Unfortunately, due to the extraordinary demand for these parts, we are currently on backorder, meaning that we do not physically have the TWIN2X2048-8500C5D or any other Micron-based part in stock and will not until mid-to-late January, 2007.
That does not mean I won't be fulfilling orders, though. This program will continue until December 31st.
So here's the new rules:
1) If you haven't taken part in the program at all yet, please email me a copy of your receipt before December 31st, 2006, and if the receipt is dated before 11/29/06, you will be added to a pre-approved list.
2) If you've decided to take advantage of the program and have already emailed me but not sent in your memory, hold onto your memory until January 22nd, and email me again after that.
3) If you've already mailed me your parts, I will take from my very limited inventory in the order I receive modules. Hopefully this will be enough to cover those that have already sent in their memory. If I receive your memory and have no memory to send you, I will contact you directly to work something out.
Again, the program is on hiatus until mid-to-late January, 2007, and if you wish to take part in it at that time, please email me on or after January 22nd, 2007.
In order to be pre-approved for this program, I must receive your e-mail before December 31st, 2006, and your receipt must be dated before 11/29/06.
You do not have to physically send in the modules until we have parts in stock.
But I will need the email and receipt before December 31st.
Please send the receipt in JPG screenshot form, as our internal spam filter has been somewhat overzealous with attachments.
Thanks again.
There has been a lot of confusion and anger about the 6400C4D parts lately. The main point of contention seems to be that the 6400C4D parts are based primarily on Promos ICs and not on the Micron ICs that very early 6400C4 parts were based on. Since a few months ago, the Promos IC has been the primary IC used on all 6400C4 parts, and with the advent of the 6400C4D, Promos was the primary IC used from day 1. There were occasional Micron-based parts, but these were always a downbin for the small percentage of Micron ICs that did not pass our screen for 8500C5 modules. Allow me to address your concerns one by one.
1) Hey, Promos parts suck!
We use Promos 90nm parts in several of our modules. They are specially processed and tested for us by Promos using a custom flow that we have specified. They undergo further testing and screening at our facilities. Our Promos based modules are very reliable and have been tested and characterized in our lab on many different and currently popular enthusiast motherboards. Namely the Asus M2N32-SLI, and the Asus P5B Deluxe. Modules spec’d at 6400C4 using promos have been carefully tested so that they meet these specs on every motherboard we use for testing. In many cases offer very respectable overclocking capabilities when latencies are relaxed and voltage is applied. On many motherboards we have seen speeds over 900 MHz. It is true, however, that in general, Promos based modules will not overclock as well as modules built with Micron rev D parts.
We can’t really comment on modules built with untested or limited tested chips, these may not perform as well as Corsair modules. Obviously, we cannot test every motherboard and configuration but if you have some particular situation where Promos based Corsair modules do not perform to their spec, please contact us. We have always stood behind our lifetime warranty, and have never intentionally shipped a part that did not perform to its rated spec.
2) Hey, Corsair pulled a bait and switch to make extra money!
We would love to be able to build all our modules using the fastest chips in the world, unfortunately that this not only unpractical but would in no way meet the demand we have for DDR2 800 modules.
In general we try to keep building modules with the same ICs all the time. However as a practical matter we have to have two or more sources of die for any modules that we ship in volume.
For the very high speed modules, such as are currently spec’d at 1GHz or more, there is rarely more than one die type that will meet the specs. Generally, these high speed parts appeal to a very elite segment of extreme enthusiasts, and as a result, we have no problems with using a single supplier for these parts.
Micron rev D parts overclock very well and we have put in place some very extensive screening and testing programs to make sure that the modules we ship with Micron are among the best and fastest memory modules in the world.
When we send high-speed parts to reviewers, we are very careful not to change the IC on this part to an IC that doesn’t perform as well or better as this would be an obvious “bait and switch”. This is a practice that is despicable and Corsair has not and will not take part in this type of false advertising.
During the course of this event, Corsair has been accused of intentionally utilizing a bait and switch tactic and using IC revisions to confuse people. We do not use such tactics as they will never survive the scrutiny of the enthusiast crowd, obviously. We rely on our reputation for performance, quality, innovation and customer service to sell our memory. Our IC revisions are dictated by IC supply and demand and are made to enhance availability while also sustaining the required specifications.
It would be nice if we could build all our modules with specially screened Micron chips, unfortunately, this screening is very expensive and time consuming and with the limited availability of Micron ICs, we would end up meeting only a fraction of our demand and thus end up disappointing thousands of customers.
3) I thought all Dominators were Micron based and now I feel ripped off because they are not.
First, Corsair has never stated that all Dominator parts are based on Micron ICs. Second, the Dominator heatsink technology offers many good benefits, both for extreme overclocking as well as for general reliability because it makes the chips run cooler. The Promos ICs respond well to voltage, and whenever voltage increases, heat output increases. The Dominator heatsink technology more effectively cools the ICs on both Promos and Micron-based modules, and this is why it was applied. It was never designed to “trick” people into buying a Promos part.
The high end Dominators, (those spec’d over 1GHz or spec’d at 6400C3) currently use Micron chips.
Dominator modules rated at 6400C4 typically use Promos ICs because they are much more available and less expensive. When designing the 6400C4D, our intention was to address the two main complaints that people had about the Dominator modules. 1) They were too expensive, and 2) They were hard to find. The 6400C4D parts are priced to be competitive in the market, and as such, we are focusing on price point and availability, both of which prevent us from using the Micron ICs on this part. At the moment we are having a tough time keeping up with the demand for even these Promos-based modules, as they are very popular.
5) You should tell us if you change the IC on a module!
We recognize that a small number of our customers want to buy modules based on a specific IC, and we try to be very upfront with what we use on performance modules. Please be aware that most DIY enthusiasts do not buy based on IC, they buy based on the performance spec.
We do recognize that we could do this more effectively, and are working on a new way to improve the way we get make this data available to our ‘professional’ grade customers.
Corsair is willing to make amends with customers that believed they were purchasing Micron-based parts before today. We understand the confusion and would like to make the following offer to anybody who purchased a 6400C4D kit before today.
Corsair will replace your 6400C4Ds with 8500C5Ds, which are Micron based, for the difference in price. To take advantage of this offer, please write me an email with the subject line “6400C4D” and include a copy of your receipt. NOTE: This offer is only valid for people with receipts dated November 28th, 2006 or earlier. Send this email to me at georgem@corsairmemory.com
Again, please be sure to include 6400C4D in the subject line so that your replacement can be processed correctly.
Corsair appreciates your understanding in this matter, and we look forward to serving the enthusiast community in the future by continuing to make the world’s fastest memory. Thank you.