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View Full Version : Attention Overclockers and Benchmarkers: new features at HWBOT !



massman
11-03-2006, 04:31 AM
http://www.hwbot.org/image.ajax?imageId=113

You have or have not seen the latest features at HWbot, implented by our talented boss RichBastard. Beside the global rankings, he has developped a new sort of competition, which will make the overclocking scene more interesting and competitive.

Every uploaded result gets points, HWBOINTS, depending on how good the score is. Some explanation:

The hwboint ranking algorithm is a well thought computation that hands out points to overclocking results, based on how noteworthy they are. A high rank in a very popular benchmark application like SuperPi will get you a lot more hwboints than a high rank in eg. Sisoft sandra, as there is less competition. The same counts for the specific hardware you used. You might not be ranked high in the main ranking, but if you have the fastest processor / videocard of your kind, you'll recieve a decent amount of points too. Again, the more people are using this piece of hardware, the more points you will get. Eg. you will recieve a lot more points for having the fastest 7900GT, than having the fastest Matrox Parhelia.

hwboints = global points + hardware points

* global points (top 5): (50,40,35,30,25 * application weight) * 0.6
* global points (other): ((-20/145) * your rank + (600/29) * application weight) * 0.6
* hardware points (top 5): (5,4...1 * hardware weight) * 2

application weigth: 0.5 (<500 participants) - 2 (2000 or more participants)

hardware weigth: 0.2 (1 participant) - 1 (100 or more participants)

(Thx to Mtzki for the brilliant idea)

More info about Hwboints (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=38)

The Hwboints ranking is divided in two sections: one for members (http://www.hwbot.org/members.hall.of.fame.do), which is currently dominated by (who else?) ... k|ngp|n, and one for teams (http://www.hwbot.org/hallOfFame.do?type=team&applicationId=all), dominated by XS.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7007/teamfi1.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7007/teamfi1.jpg)

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7815/memag6.jpg (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7815/memag6.jpg)

If you submit results to Hwbot and don't see your results, you probably haven't authenticated yourself at hwbot. If we would skip this step, cheating would be too easy. :)

What does 'authenticate my scanned results' mean? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=85)
I have registered but I do not get awards/points for my scanned scores? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=158)
Howto authenticate your login (flash demo) (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=139)
Why should I join hwbot and not just submit my scores in my monitored forum? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=35)

At hwbot we always try to listen to the needs of our users, so if you have a brilliant idea or some remarks, just let us know.

- The HWBot crew.

RichBa5tard
11-03-2006, 04:57 AM
Many thanks to mtzki, who's at least the intelectual father of hwboints. I'm just the grunt who coded it. :D

Seriously, even though i say it myself, this point systems is fantastic to compare overclockers to each other, while keeping it fun for those who can't afford the latest Q6700 + 1950 CF.

If this system gets support for the community (and we are confident we do), we are going to organize contests based on hwboints. Untill then, please share your thoughts on how we can make it even better.

K404
11-03-2006, 05:49 AM
thats pretty cool :D Any ideas on how to get the rest of the benching world to sign up to HWBOT and build up a better picture of benchmarking? I`m top 50 at the mo, which just aint right..... LOL

RichBa5tard
11-03-2006, 05:54 AM
Sponsored competitions + autogenerated signatures with your current rank / amount of points / team status should motivate a lot of people, i hope. :)

mtzki
11-03-2006, 05:59 AM
Many thanks to mtzki, who's at least the intelectual father of hwboints. I'm just the grunt who coded it. :D
Thanks mate, tho you worked a fair share of the ideas and definitions too. :)

K404
11-03-2006, 06:02 AM
I`d carry an HWBot sig at the forums i`m on...you got any cooked up? :)

hausner
11-03-2006, 06:02 AM
hwbot now its better , thanks Mtzki ! and hwbot > orb :toast:

massman
11-03-2006, 06:03 AM
thats pretty cool :D Any ideas on how to get the rest of the benching world to sign up to HWBOT and build up a better picture of benchmarking? I`m top 50 at the mo, which just aint right..... LOL

As long as you're top50, you're top50, nothing more, nothing less :)

RichBa5tard
11-03-2006, 06:15 AM
I`d carry an HWBot sig at the forums i`m on...you got any cooked up? :)

Finishing the signatures is highest on my todo list. I'll pm you when they're up and running. : )

GoriLLakoS
11-03-2006, 06:23 AM
Very very good..:toast:
Very nice idea..:toast:

Some members have no points(me for example)...why does this happens?

massman
11-03-2006, 06:30 AM
Do you have a registred account at Hwbot or are your results scanned automatically?

GoriLLakoS
11-03-2006, 06:31 AM
Both...but i haven't logged in for 3-4 months in there..:)

RichBa5tard
11-03-2006, 06:32 AM
Some members have no points(me for example)...why does this happens?

That's probably because you haven't authenticated your login at hwbot. If we would skip this step, cheating would be too easy. :)

What does 'authenticate my scanned results' mean? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=85)
I have registered but I do not get awards/points for my scanned scores? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=158)
Howto authenticate your login (flash demo) (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=139)
Why should I join hwbot and not just submit my scores in my monitored forum? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=35)

As you can see, we've put a lot of effort in extending the faqs and guides section. ;)

GoriLLakoS
11-03-2006, 06:37 AM
That's probably because you haven't authenticated your login at hwbot. If we would skip this step, cheating would be too easy. :)

What does 'authenticate my scanned results' mean? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=85)
I have registered but I do not get awards/points for my scanned scores? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=158)
Howto authenticate your login (flash demo) (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=139)
Why should I join hwbot and not just submit my scores in my monitored forum? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=35)

As you can see, we've put a lot of effort in extending the faqs and guides section. ;)

i will check it as soon as i go home..:D
Thannks for the fast reply-support..:D

massman
11-03-2006, 06:41 AM
That's probably because you haven't authenticated your login at hwbot. If we would skip this step, cheating would be too easy. :)

What does 'authenticate my scanned results' mean? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=85)
I have registered but I do not get awards/points for my scanned scores? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=158)
Howto authenticate your login (flash demo) (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=139)
Why should I join hwbot and not just submit my scores in my monitored forum? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=35)

As you can see, we've put a lot of effort in extending the faqs and guides section. ;)

Added to first post :)

TaPaKaH
11-03-2006, 07:07 AM
:woot: I am #21 :D

WeStSiDePLaYa
11-03-2006, 09:12 AM
ok im slow, i dont get what hwbot does.

RichBa5tard
11-03-2006, 09:31 AM
What is hwbot? (http://www.hwbot.org/hwbot.post.do?postId=27)

GoriLLakoS
11-03-2006, 09:50 AM
I tried to retrieve my lost pass and here is where the link is driving me..



An error has been thrown while processing your request.
Error message
java.lang.NullPointerException: null
Error stack trace
org.hwbot.facade.UserFacadeImpl.resetPassword line 340
sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0 line -2
sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke line 39
sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke line 25
java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke line 585
org.springframework.aop.support.AopUtils.invokeJoi npointUsingReflection line 292
org.springframework.aop.framework.ReflectiveMethod Invocation.invokeJoinpoint line 155
org.springframework.aop.framework.ReflectiveMethod Invocation.proceed line 122
org.hwbot.aop.PerformanceLoggingInterceptor.invoke line 40
org.springframework.aop.framework.ReflectiveMethod Invocation.proceed line 144

WeStSiDePLaYa
11-03-2006, 10:52 AM
hwbot seems outdated.

doesnt have many of the AM2 X2's

Charles Wirth
11-03-2006, 10:54 AM
Need more people with AM2 machines to sumbit scores it seems.

K404
11-03-2006, 11:11 AM
doesnt have many of the AM2 X2's

LOL thats coz there aint many benchers using them!!

The more ppl who sign up to HWBot, the better, spread the word! :D

[cTx]Philosophy
11-03-2006, 01:13 PM
Never have gotten into it.. YET..

Will check it out later and run a few of my rigs on it to see how they compare..

Does it show total users and like % of amd's p4's duos?

massman
11-03-2006, 01:37 PM
hwbot seems outdated.

doesnt have many of the AM2 X2's

# results today: 149

Outdated you say ? :slap:

jrw
11-03-2006, 01:38 PM
Still on 939. Sorry.

My funds has been redirected for other recreational use.

Will get my 01 score submitted asap.

Awsome idea!

ozzimark
11-03-2006, 08:49 PM
# results today: 149

Outdated you say ? :slap:
then how come my 3400+ sempron is grouped with the s754s, as a palermo with 2ghz stock speed ;)

and imo, this new layout is a good way to push the little sites out of sight. not conductive to proper conpetition if you ask me

massman
11-03-2006, 11:36 PM
then how come my 3400+ sempron is grouped with the s754s, as a palermo with 2ghz stock speed ;)

If you run into troubles finding the correct cpu, please give our forums (http://www.hwbot.org/forums/) a visit and let us know.

jmke
11-04-2006, 02:14 AM
and imo, this new layout is a good way to push the little sites out of sight. not conductive to proper conpetition if you ask me

I don't agree, a small group of OC'ers can get 1st spot in the ranking and climb very high; what we need now is a member to HWBOINT ratio for a third ranking

hey RIchbastard! HWBOINTS/MEMBERS = Average OC-bility of Team

can you throw together a page with such a ranking, that would be swell :)

RichBa5tard
11-04-2006, 03:48 AM
Nah, that would discourage teams from accepting new, non extreme, overclockers.

Imho being a big team is a great achievement on itself. We shouldn't punish them for having a lot of members, which the hwboints / members score would certainly do. Small teams can still get a high rank in a benchmark specific ranking (which is top 10 avg).

I could add the hwboints / member ratio to the ranking, but purely informational.

Dani
11-04-2006, 04:37 AM
(Thx to Mtzki for the brilliant idea)


Yeah, our big boy from Finland :pimp: ;)

ozzimark
11-04-2006, 06:25 AM
If you run into troubles finding the correct cpu, please give our forums (http://www.hwbot.org/forums/) a visit and let us know.
i just did let you know. no need to register again to tell you the same thing :fact: (edit: just realized that probably comes off negatively.. didn't mean it to! :p: )
WeStSiDePLaYa is sorta right though. while there are AM2 results, you're missing a lot of the chips at the moment.. kinda surprising considering the platform has been around for almost 6 months now ;)



I don't agree, a small group of OC'ers can get 1st spot in the ranking and climb very high; what we need now is a member to HWBOINT ratio for a third ranking

hey RIchbastard! HWBOINTS/MEMBERS = Average OC-bility of Team

can you throw together a page with such a ranking, that would be swell :)
i though of that last night, but with how the scores are set up now, it skews really heavily against the big teams. what needs to be done is just less emphasis on the global points. while making it so that members with lower scores can contribute is fine and dandy, i see it as a lowering of standards. a dilution of the "extremeness" of it if you will. after all, i shouldn't be able to help out my team by submitting all the random scores i have laying around on my computer from a year or more ago :fact:

RichBa5tard
11-04-2006, 07:37 AM
Phase at OCX suggested a very interesting alternative. The member ranking based on hwboints seems to work very well, the team ranking however does indeed favour huge teams a tad too hard.


The global points are not a very good system of scoring. Just show individual hardware rankings like you have been.

Only the top ten scores should count in the overall Team Ranking and only your top scores should count for individual rankings otherwise peeps will just keep submitting scores to increase their points. And those teams with more members like XS will always be on top. It must be a level competition or it becomes arbitrary in the ranking. Giving value according to how many members have submitted scores should not reflect the overall value. What does that have to do with top scores?

If there is not as many submissions then peeps should just download the application and run it, they would have a better chance to get a higher rank than some other benchmarks. The system you have been running is great why change it now? Unless you start over with a new competition it would not be fair and any new teams would not have a chance at all. The points should be awarded for 1st through 10th with a overall weighted score accordingly ie> 10,9,8,7,... points for each place in a different bench with all benchmarks having an equal weight in scoring regardless of how many scores are submitted. Then averaged overall with the top 10 scores of each team. Then you can break it down into hardware specific scoring. Just like you have already done for the last year.

Also in individual rankings it should be the highest score "only" of your top 1st-10th place scores in each benchmark ie>Super Pi 1m,32m,3DM01-06 that reflects your overall ranking, not scores from a year ago that are arbitrary compared to the new top scores. Those older scores should just be used for a lifetime ranking of some kind. Otherwise whats the point? You may as well use an old out of date CPU and become #1 in the world, even though your scores are not even top 1000 of the true world record. Old out of date hardware, should just be a separate competition all together or just a nostalgia competition of some kind. You do not run last years Ferrari at this years F1, right?


Every bench should be scored accordingly for every position you get. The points for that position should be awarded to each team (Or Individual) according to rank.

1st place = 10pts
2nd place = 9pts
3rd place = 8pts
4th place = 7pts
5th place = 6pts
6th place = 5pts
7th place = 4pts
8th place = 3pts
9th place = 2pts
10th place = 1pt

So the current standings would read like this>

XS
Benchmark ranking (current rank - weekly & monthly change in ranking)
* 3Dmark 2001 rank: 1 - - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* 3Dmark 2003 rank: 1 - - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* 3Dmark 2005 rank: 2 - -1 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* 3Dmark 2006 rank: 1 - - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* Aquamark rank: 1 - - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* CPU-Z rank: 4 +3 +4 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* PCMark 2005 rank: 16 -1 -1 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* PiFast rank: 8 -1 -2 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* SisoftSandra rank: 11 - -1 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* SuperPi rank: 1 +1 - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* SuperPi 32m rank: 14 - -1

Overall score = 69


OCX
Benchmark ranking (current rank - weekly & monthly change in ranking)
* 3Dmark 2001 rank: 2 - - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* 3Dmark 2003 rank: 2 - - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* 3Dmark 2005 rank: 1 - +1 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* 3Dmark 2006 rank: 3 +2 +1 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* Aquamark rank: 7 -1 -3 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* CPU-Z rank: 3 +8 +12 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* PCMark 2005 rank: 9 +21 +18 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* PiFast rank: 21 -1 -2 [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* SuperPi rank: 2 -1 - [ list scores ] - [ ranking stats ]
* SuperPi 32m rank: 1 - -

Overall score = 68

That is the only fair way to do it.

mtzki
11-04-2006, 08:28 AM
The suggestion for the team points by Phase above is pretty much the same as my original plan. Only that all the teams getting a score in a ranking should get some points, not just the top10. The decision to go with the kind of team hof we have now wasn´t exactly unanimous. ;)

The big team bias could also be diminished by summing only the top n overall personal scores for the team (instead of all like now), with n e.g. 20.

wittekakker
11-05-2006, 05:46 AM
Great stuff.
I hope to see some nice team fights.

It would be nice to have a program that is able to extract benchmark scores out of the avaible tools. I remember guys who developed something familiar for Need For Speed Underground 2. You had to put on the extract software, then run your game, set your new track record, alt-tab back to the extract sofware and submit it online. They even build in anti-cheat! You could add a possibility to safe your record to a .hwb file or something like that for people who might not have a internet connection at that time :)
I know it's allready on the to do list, but I think this way might be the best (most liked by tweakers) way to do it, allthough it aint going to be that simple to do :p:

massman
11-05-2006, 06:05 AM
We would need support from SiSoft, FutureMark, Aquamark holders and XS to do it decent enough. Without a anti-cheat build in, such a program is worthless imo

wittekakker
11-05-2006, 06:12 AM
I wouldn't count on that one. FutureMark for example will not share their knowledge with any possible competitors (that's what I think). Aquamark should be possible. When you download Aquamark you will find a readme in the instal directory wich explains a few points. Bundle forces with the CPU-Z programmer would be cool, and off course having your own MultiPi benchmark program.

massman
11-05-2006, 06:45 AM
1. Futuremark:

I wouldn't count on that one. FutureMark for example will not share their knowledge with any possible competitors (that's what I think).

Exactly. They won't be very happy if we made a program to submit their results to our database. :(

2. Aquamark:

Aquamark should be possible. When you download Aquamark you will find a readme in the instal directory wich explains a few points.

Believe it or not, we have already discussed a way to attach the AQ3 program to our database in order to let benchmarkers submit their results fast and simple to hwbot. We didn't find any (decent) way to do that. :(


The total score is based on the average frames per second which is the total number of frames divided by the time the benchmark needs to complete. The AvgFPS value is multiplied by 1000 and
the result is the AquaMark3 total score. The value of 1000 has been explicitly chosen to scale the result on high-end desktop PC at the time of release to a value of approximately 50 000. The CPU and graphics scores are based on the AvgFPS CPU and AvgFPS GFX described in the previous chapter. These values are scaled by 50 and 100 in order to be both between 6 000 and 8 000 on a high-end desktop PC.

I still have no idea of how we can build in the anticheat protection, athough there is a hidden checksum in the file you get after the bench ends:



click here for <a href="http://arc.aquamark3.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46">AquaMark Frequently Asked Questions</a>
<br>
<br>
<input type="hidden" name="SubmitID" value="{D63C970F-9CAA-486F-973F-6B9DE1979529}">
<input type="hidden" name="CheckSum" value="Yx8oRpUaTsv5TrujtwNa8w==">
<input type="submit" value="Submit">


3. MultiPi / Cpu-z:


Bundle forces with the CPU-Z programmer would be cool, and off course having your own MultiPi benchmark program.

MultiPi is not our n°1 thing to do. A Cpu-z screenshot should be easy to attach to our database, but I don't think Frank really wants that. He has his own database ;).

4. SiSoft:
It seems that they have included a way to upload scores to an online database in their program, so maybe ... :)

wittekakker
11-07-2006, 03:31 AM
Hwbot mods mark my scores as being legal. But what if I change them after you guys have mark it? I don't see it reapear on the main page as a new score being posted... so do you guys get a notify that I changed my score?
It doesn't get the 'unchecked' status either.
So basicly, if users change their benchmark score it would be cool to put them back unchecked.

RichBa5tard
11-07-2006, 03:33 AM
Hwbot mods mark my scores as being legal. But what if I change them after you guys have mark it? I don't see it reapear on the main page as a new score being posted... so do you guys get a notify that I changed my score?
It doesn't get the 'unchecked' status either.
So basicly, if users change their benchmark score it would be cool to put them back unchecked.

A very good point. :) Added to the todo list.

jmke
11-07-2006, 03:39 AM
we don't necessarily check all scores as they are submitted, rather the top 20-30 in each ranking to see if nobody is trying to cheat their way to the top.

We should be able to differentiate between accidental errors and scores entered wrongly on purpose; for the last ones we should be able to sanction or "tag" the offending user to help prevent any future problems.

Turtle 1
11-08-2006, 08:38 AM
How do you register @ hwbot. Link please. Never mind I got registered. I will ask wife if I can register her scores when she gets home.


So I still don't understand the scoring. Does XS get points for me . with a P4c 3.2@3.4 in 3Dmark 05 . My browser pc scores in the number 1 position and in pcmark 04 I am second. Now does this give points to XS or hows it work.

massman
11-08-2006, 10:48 AM
Your score will add about 2 points to the XS totals

EDIT: It's more like 6 points :)

wittekakker
11-11-2006, 11:43 AM
I've found a 7800GTX score today wich seem to be fake. The thing is that I cannot report it because one of hwbot mods has put it as valid. How can I report that it is fake? :D

Onto the fake result: it has a Futuremark ORB link, but the 3D Mark 05 GT3 score is just way off compared to other 7800GTX. It even beets a 650MHz 7950GT with him only having +500MHz on the core. Where he got 12k, he should get only 10k considering his system specs. I also tried to contact Futuremark about this, I hope they delete the score, but I don't know if they will hear my, they don't have a "report" button on their site so I just picked one of their available e-mail adresses :D

Here it is: http://www.hwbot.org/compare.do?resultId=550240

jmke
11-13-2006, 12:03 AM
that entry doesn't seem to be fake, or am I wrong?

check my new sexy signature image, it's available to all HWbot.org users, click the "bench profile" link after you've logged in.

jmke
11-13-2006, 12:06 AM
here's yours:

http://www.hwbot.org/signature.img?t=1&uid=5334&iehack=.png

wittekakker
11-13-2006, 05:39 AM
Damm, you passed me, need to check my HD, maybe there is more :p


--------
About that entry. Look at his score on Futuremark ORB:
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=2150955

He has Atlon X2 @ 2,65GHz and 7800GTX @ 560MHz.
My setup: Allendale @ +3,3GHz and 7950GT @ 650MHz.
I should 'own' him on one leg :)

Main Test Results
3DMark Score
(3DMarks)
12135 <-> 12756


Detailed Test Results

Game Tests
GT1 - Return To Proxycon
(fps) 54.5 <-> 46.1

GT2 - Firefly Forest
(fps) 36.9 <-> 37.0

GT3 - Canyon Flight
(fps) 56.9 <-> 77.9


The big differance on GT3 tels us he has bigger gpu performance then me.
Now look at this hwbot entry:
http://www.hwbot.org/compare.do?resultId=506615
Although it's in the single card competition, he descibes his setup to have two 7800GTX's. Now look to the results above, we see a patron :)

I didn't saw it before, but it's more clear now. It's an SLI score, not single card.

massman
11-13-2006, 10:39 AM
You're absolutely right Geoffrey, sorry for the mistake.

From now on, this score will be known as SLI :)

rjw
12-12-2006, 06:20 AM
How do I correct problem with the hwbot?

I posted a 3dm03 score, which ended up being put in the siungle card area as opposed to the dual card area.

Now it has beeen removed altogether?

mtzki
12-12-2006, 09:05 AM
You can edit your submissions at the hwbot website:
http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=6154&filter=false

I think your 03 score is still there and fixed now.

rjw
12-12-2006, 02:55 PM
You can edit your submissions at the hwbot website:
http://www.hwbot.org/user.do?userId=6154&filter=false

I think your 03 score is still there and fixed now.

It is not listed except for in my proile with an n/a next to it.

Ok, I edited it. I don't know why the bot picked it up ioncorrectly though?

Question...Will my signature update automatically, or do I have to go back and change the url once in a while?

jmke
12-14-2006, 03:45 AM
no updated automatically:)