View Full Version : Do we need a new sticky?
virtualrain
10-25-2006, 04:43 PM
It seems like 2-3 times per day now there is a new person interested in getting into water cooling that is either posting a check-up on their equipment list or looking for recommendations.
It's great to see the community growing, but I'm wondering if our stickies are doing the job.
Everyone here promotes exactly the same list of equipment (Storm, MCW60, MCW30, PA Rad, DDC with Petra/Alphacool top, etc.).
Do we need a more obvious sticky that says "New? Buy these:"
Are the other stickes raising more questions than they are answering?
Of course, I also wonder why new comers don't bother to at least read the first page of threads on here... there are at least two open threads at any given time talking about equipment recommendations.
Just a thought.
NO1B4ME
10-25-2006, 04:50 PM
It seems like 2-3 times per day now there is a new person interested in getting into water cooling that is either posting a check-up on their equipment list or looking for recommendations.
It's great to see the community growing, but I'm wondering if our stickies are doing the job.
Everyone here promotes exactly the same list of equipment (Storm, MCW60, MCW30, PA Rad, DDC with Petra/Alphacool top, etc.).
Do we need a more obvious sticky that says "New? Buy these:"
Are the other stickes raising more questions than they are answering?
Of course, I also wonder why new comers don't bother to at least read the first page of threads on here... there are at least two open threads at any given time talking about equipment recommendations.
Just a thought.
IMO the stickies are doing their job. They helped me pick stuff out, answered all my Q's etc.
Bottom line is ALOT of Noobs don't want to read and research. They want to come here and have theri whole system built in a single post:( .
In the end it is Laziness :).
phelan1777
10-25-2006, 04:59 PM
when I first started doing my research I used the Stickies because well that is what they are for. When I came to a question I didn't see answered then I started hunting down the Gurus.
D3kMatrix
10-25-2006, 05:07 PM
I started researching WCing about 2 weeks ago and the "Guide To Current WaterCooling Components" sticky helped me tons.
Even bought my first part today :P A used MP-05 LE for $50 shipped with extra mid plates =)
For what it's worth of people asking for help and getting the same answer
over and over again you may aswell close the forum and just have one
thread saying " Buy a Storm , Buy a PA120.3 , Buy a DDC 2 " ect ect ..
:)
phelan1777
10-25-2006, 05:23 PM
For what it's worth of people asking for help and getting the same answer
over and over again you may aswell close the forum and just have one
thread saying " Buy a Storm , Buy a PA120.3 , Buy a DDC 2 " ect ect ..
:)
it is not so easy because not everyone can afford the "Ideal" hardware
Nanometer
10-25-2006, 05:34 PM
The stickies are doing their job. I think lots of just people like to get the O.K. by sombody who has their own system and knows their way. Can't add much more to the stickies :p:
nealh
10-25-2006, 06:32 PM
who cares if people ask..
this why the forum is here..if it is redunant, just dont comment
Never understood why everyone gets so hung up about a repetitive question..it will be answered and fall quick down the forum
badhabit
10-25-2006, 06:34 PM
No matter what you put in the stickies there's no verification stage there, and that's what a lot of these topics are. Anyone reading up on how they should spend their $400 is going to want some sort of confirmation to make sure they got it right - maybe the sticky was out of date, maybe the sticky wasn't consensus, they'll never know with enough certainty - they definitely don't want to spend a lot of money the wrong way.
At least they've already done some research and picked out parts so you don't have to explain your reasoning.
smopoim86
10-25-2006, 07:01 PM
well, i haven't posted a "is this ok thread" and i have done all my reasearch on this forum and have a good understanding of what i'm doing.
I think my watercooling is ok.................for now
septim
10-25-2006, 07:31 PM
its rather hard when we don't know the newcomer's budget constraint...
too many possible combos of watercooling equiptment and cases and different mountings etc etc.
but for balance kits beginner's and advance users i'll always point out one of Petra's Kits...
shifty803
10-25-2006, 08:39 PM
Speaking as a new poster, and I mean new, people must be lazy.
I decided to finally upgrade from my clocked Athlon 64 3000+ winchester (still going to wait for DX10 gfx though) and get some water cooling. Always wanted to try it, but college isn't the optimal place to do it for the first time. Plus, there were other things to keep my attention besides insanely o/c'ed proessors. ;) After coming here and reading through all the stickies, I really don't see what questions can be left. What to buy? It's there. Where to buy? It's there. Is parallel or series better? It's there... etc... you get the idea. Only took me a day or two to figure out pretty much what I needed, then I headed to Petra's. Only issue was the sales tax, but at least shipping should be quick... hehe.
Just wanted to give a general thanks to people in the xtreme forums for the great guides and info. I'll be around. Getting started on this C2D as soon as the water parts are all here. 500mhz fsb, here I come.
MaxxxRacer
10-25-2006, 08:54 PM
no way in hell I will make a sticky that says "just buy this and that you n00b!". Nor will I allow it.
If you want to get into watercooling you have to LEARN!! about it first. If I, or anyone else just presents a list of components for any noob to buy, they will do exactly that and not know anything about any of it, which leads to them breaking the stuff, or worse ruining their computer. After they have fried their computer they will be all pist off and blame the forums (not that its our fault they didnt take the time to learn) for their failure.
As it stands now, I do my best to inform newcomers to the hobby of everything they might need to know or are just curious about. This way they can make INFORMED decisions about what they are buying and will know how to properly setup their system, and hopefully will do so.
shifty803 ^^ points out exactly why a sticky with just what parts to buy is so lame. As long as you are not lazy, (and if you're too lazy to read a dam guide then you are probably too lazy to setup a decent watercooling system anyway) reading the guides is exactly what you want to do. their are a handbook of What all of this watercooling crap is, and helps to steer you into a proccess of logical thought which in turn leads to you picking out good hardware mostly on your own.
So in conclusion, if you are too lazy to read the guides and just want me to tell you what to buy, let me refer you to www.thermaltake.com
septim
10-25-2006, 09:49 PM
maybe/could the first page of watercooling section contain only the stickies and in bold lettering?
virtualrain
10-25-2006, 09:58 PM
MaxxxRacer... I agree with you completely, but sadly, there are two or three posts a day where it's just like:
Noob: "Tell me what to buy" or "Check my equipment list"
Various Gurus: You should buy x, y, and z (and if you've spent just two hours browsing this site you can recite the list without thinking). Even if someone has unique requirements or a limited budget, the recommendations are usually the same, or "Wait til you can afford to do it properly". I find myself doing this... so I'm not exempt.
Obviously, any noob that bothered to spend even a couple of hours browsing these forums would know the recommended (or is it required?) equipment list in a matter of minutes.
There is seldom a reason not to buy a DDC or a PA Rad or a Storm block. If there is, I don't see it suggested very often.
Perhaps water cooling has matured to the point where the best parts are indesputable for nearly any requirement and there will be a lot less debate about equipment choice...
Perhaps this is really going to become a debate about the future of water cooling. The idea of building a custom loop is disappearing... It's not really custom if everyone is buying a DDC pump, a Petra top, a Storm, a PA 120.3, and one or two MCW60s with Masterkleer tubing.
If you can be pretty much guaranteed water cooling success by purchasing those parts what's left to discuss?
Answer: How to fit it all together in your case, I guess.
The first company to offer all of these parts integrated into a nice case could clean up here.
Anyway, this is not meant in anyway as a flame towards anyone, its just based on some observations and to encourage some interesting discussion and debate in this great community to which I owe a great deal.
Rasco
10-25-2006, 10:34 PM
I couldn't agree more MaxxxRacer and virtualrain. This is a great community without alot of great personalities, interesting views and opinions about WC and a perfect place to discuss this lovely hobby. Even though I haven't been posting here for a long time I believe that there's to many "N00b *first* post help me pick..." posts per day. Those threads takes up to much space from the really interesting discussions and debate's you guys have here.
And as virtualrain said. The custom loop ain't that custom anymore. Petra would make a fortune selling a "Ultimate Elite WC kit" which would contain a DDC pump with Petra top, a Storm, a PA 120.3 and one or two MCW60s with Masterkleer/Tygon tubing. On the other side that's undoubtedly one of the best loops you could get today.
In the end maybe there's not to much to do about this "problem". But I think that septim is up to something. We definitely do NOT need a new sticky, but making the already existing stickies more highlighted maybe could help?
Keep those rich threads containg interesting unique discussions alive. That's what this forum is all about.
/Oscar
MaxxxRacer
10-25-2006, 10:47 PM
sadly we cant get rid of the ppl who will post the "tell me what to get threads". but thankfully most people on the forums have learned to ignore such questiosn and just tell the user to go read the guides.
and deleting such threads just leads to VERY frustrated and pissed off members are are just joining us. Its bad "buisness" to push away members right when they get here.
Rasco
10-25-2006, 11:03 PM
sadly we cant get rid of the ppl who will post the "tell me what to get threads". but thankfully most people on the forums have learned to ignore such questiosn and just tell the user to go read the guides.
and deleting such threads just leads to VERY frustrated and pissed off members are are just joining us. Its bad "buisness" to push away members right when they get here.
True. Pushing away new members won't make the community larger. Share experiences, provide discussion and at some point also helping new WC'ers is what XS is all about. But sometimes perhaps the best motto to apply is "our way - or the highway".
septim
10-25-2006, 11:07 PM
as :worship::worship: Cathar :worship::worship: once said it, his ideal pump (ddc with top), ideal radiator (thermochill PA series) and his Storm block (or swiftech's version) has already become a reality so there is not much more to advice on the best possible combo in water cooling.
hence the usual buy/get storm, PA, ddc-2 with top for the best in etc etc...
only prob for noobs and everyone else is howto/whereto mod/mount said stuff in their respective cases and optional put some bling2 to it...
as a note like i said above post, i would recommend one of Petra's kit with MP05 and MCR rad as an alternative to the usual big 3 must/want to buy...
marauder16
10-26-2006, 12:07 AM
When I was first getting interested into water cooling I started to read the stickies here at XS and also at Extreme OC forums, and after reading them I decided to go water cooling, cause in my opinion you have to understand the thing you're buying, you can just buy the 'ultimate' stuff, ship it home and say: what the hell is that big thing with fins? :confused:
first learn about it and then ask what you don't understand :fact:
no sticky. For example, a thermochill 120.2, a petra-topped ddc, and a storm and assorted fittings, t-lines, will run 300+ with ease. There are people who can't afford $300 + setups. not to mention the learn factor.
voigts
10-26-2006, 05:02 AM
Virtualrain does have a point. The stickies are really very good, and Maxxracer has obviously spent a large amount time on them.
What might be good to integrate in some way is what to buy given a certain budget. For instance, we all recommend the PA120.2 over any other 2x120 rad as it is hands down the best, but right now for instance the PA120.2 is $119 at Danger Den, while the Swiftech MCR220 can be had for $42 at CrazyPC. Is the $77 worth the difference when that would by itself pay for a DDC+? What if in the recommended parts to buy sticky it gave recommendations for $100-150 (yes it can be done), $150-$200, $200-250, $250+ for CPU and/or GPU with a mention to what you get for what you pay for performance-wise in each category. I realize this would take some time to do, but it is just a thought.
Bad213Boy
10-26-2006, 05:22 AM
no way in hell I will make a sticky that says "just buy this and that you n00b!". Nor will I allow it.
If you want to get into watercooling you have to LEARN!! about it first. If I, or anyone else just presents a list of components for any noob to buy, they will do exactly that and not know anything about any of it, which leads to them breaking the stuff, or worse ruining their computer. After they have fried their computer they will be all pist off and blame the forums (not that its our fault they didnt take the time to learn) for their failure.
As it stands now, I do my best to inform newcomers to the hobby of everything they might need to know or are just curious about. This way they can make INFORMED decisions about what they are buying and will know how to properly setup their system, and hopefully will do so.
shifty803 ^^ points out exactly why a sticky with just what parts to buy is so lame. As long as you are not lazy, (and if you're too lazy to read a dam guide then you are probably too lazy to setup a decent watercooling system anyway) reading the guides is exactly what you want to do. their are a handbook of What all of this watercooling crap is, and helps to steer you into a proccess of logical thought which in turn leads to you picking out good hardware mostly on your own.
So in conclusion, if you are too lazy to read the guides and just want me to tell you what to buy, let me refer you to www.thermaltake.com
why does this sound soooo familar, pour guy who regrets WCing :down: totally agree 100%. you can kinda tell who's been doing their reading and research. sometimes the problems is that the noobs never know how old the material is when checking out those threads.
embeejay
10-26-2006, 06:20 AM
As a complete n00b who recently did one of the aforementioned postings, i'd like to say the following... The stickies rock - i had read and re-read all of them (along with several stickies one other forums) before i posted anything in here, but they still left me in doubt about alot of specific details - details which i have now gotten through my posting. There was 3 or 4 people who took pity on me and answered all my n00b questions and as a result i now have a pretty good take on how to make a really good WC setup, what to look for/think about when i buy my componentes etc.
The reason why i decided to post my questions here, and become a member of this forum, instead of one of the many other places where i browsed and read stickies was that this forum, while seeming to have some of most experienced users in the field, also seemed to be very tolerant to n00b questions - please don't change that, because it is part of what makes this forum rock.
Bad213Boy
10-26-2006, 07:22 AM
ya it takes alot, i mean alot of reading before you can even figure out what you want first. there's so much info out there that ive even seen videos on how to install, those are :pimp:
JoeBar
10-26-2006, 12:28 PM
If you want to get into watercooling you have to LEARN!! about it first...
As it stands now, I do my best to inform newcomers to the hobby of everything they might need to know or are just curious about. This way they can make INFORMED decisions about what they are buying and will know how to properly setup their system, and hopefully will do so.
QFT! :fact:
hm. time for me to read the stickys again...
Xion X2
10-26-2006, 03:50 PM
I think, for the most part, the stickies are doing their job. I appreciate the time and effort that each of you have put into them, because they've really, really helped newcomers like myself. I've been reading through every one of them for the last few weeks and the only one I really still have questions in regards to is the fittings topic. That still confuses me a little because there are so many different kinds and insertions you can make into your loop like temp probes, flowmeters, etc--and sometimes it's tough to know whether or not these will slow down flow significantly or if they will even screw onto other fittings in your case without you having to buy an adapter or something.
I PM'd virtualrain about this recently, and he was kind enough to respond back to me in good detail (Thanks, virtual!). Fittings is the only subject that I'm still a little "iffy" on, and it's the only sticky I read that it seemed like things weren't pretty much spelled-out to the reader. It seemed almost to be written from the perspective of someone who had been doing this for a while and expected you to know a lot more than you did, instead of being written for a complete n00b. Lots of details seemed to be left out that weren't in the rest.
But that's a small complaint after all of the effort that's been put forth already, and I'm going to continue the research of fittings until I completely understand it all.