Help with New WCG Crunching Rig

[DAK1640]

I am planning to replace my toaster (Pressy @ 3.8Ghz). Hopefully C2D would have major output improvement over this rig.

I am thinking E6400 unless the 4M cache on the E6600 makes that much difference.

Perhaps E6400 with P5B-Dx and Ram ? I have a cheap PCIE card already.
Per Tom's Hardware (today), there isn't that much to be gained from changing out the stock cooler...Do you guys feel the same way? I could easily go water, all I would need is a waterblock.

Need Opinions, but also some real world output increase I could expect between a P4 at 3.8Ghz and a C2D at (3Ghz) I guess?

Rig component suggestions?:toast:

[[XC] hipno650]

in canada the frezzer 7's are cheap and they are good so mabye one of those and i don't think the 6600 makes that much of a differnece over the 6400. and what will you be doing with that pressy? cuz that is still a killer chrucher. you should keep it online!

[[XC] serlv]

I'm running two E6600's ( and a E6700 on "loan" ), and have two E6400's on the way.

I'm thinking, after talking with peeps that the extra cache doesn't seem to do much for crunching. WCG seems to be all about clockspeed and maybe to a lesser degree, timings.

That is why I went with the two 6400's this time. They can, generally, get to about what the 6600's can get to. Or pretty friggin close. And I can save some money.

As far as cooling goes, I'm not sure what THG is smoking. Stock coolers maybe ok for stock speeds, and you can do some mild OCing with them, but I would strongly suggest aftermarket cooling. I have run three different "loaner" C2Duo systems with stock cooling and all three times my OCing was limited by heat.

My ( permanent ) C2D systems have aftermarket cooling. One has a Thermalright Ultra 120 and one has a TT Big Typhoon. On the two chips that are inbound I will be using Thermalright XP-90's.

Not sure water is necessary, but it certainly couldn't hurt. If you are already familiar with water, and it wouldn't take too much more to get a WC setup going that would work more than fine, also.

RAM?

A lot of people are running GSkill HZ or Team Group's excellent stuff. SuperTalent can be good as well. If you are going with a 6400 than you want to make sure you get RAM that can crank. The default multi is 8, so 8 x ?. 425? 450? 7 x 500? 7 x 480?

A thought, if this will be your main machine, then you might want to go with 2 gigs of RAM. If mainly a cruncher, then you could make do with less.

The P5B Dlx definitely does pretty good. Comes in two flavors WiFi/AP or just plain Dlx. You can save some buckas, obviously, if you go the plain Dlx. You probably want to stay clear of the plain, non-Dlx P5B...

Another option is the P5B-E, but the situation with that is unsettled as of right now. There is two different rev's shipping, you definitely wzant the second.

Another board that is doing real well, though a few have had problems with, is the Gigabyte DS3 ( P version ). I have one and I like it a lot.


Hope that helps.
Scott

[rob725]

What Scott said.

You can overclock with stock heatsink, but you will be leaving 300-400 mhz on the table, sometimes more if you have a good chip. Seems like water can get you another 100-300, depending on which air cooler. TT Big Typhoon is a good cooler for the money (since they've come out with a new version and you can still get the old one) and responds well to higher output fans. Ultra-120, Noctua, Scythe Infinity, Tuniq Tower (if you can find one) work well even with low-output fans and are so good that if your fan broke while you were gone they would still cool your chip (of course at a much higher temp) as long as the case has some airflow.

Edit:
You can probably do 3ghz, if that's your goal, with the stock cooler, unless you just get a hot-running chip.

[DAK1640]

Scott / Rob, Most valuable info...Thank you greatly.

Do you really think 1GB of Ram is enuf for crunching? If I were to get more Ram later, would 4 stix work? Limit my OC'ing?

Now I am favoring the E6400, P5B-Dlx and how bout Corsair 6400? I will just change the waterblock over to socket 775 (I guess they all fit Conroe huh?) I currently have a Dangerden set up. Ram is like $275 OMG

[[XC] hipno650]

i know ram prices are through the roof!!!!!!! ya those are good coolers but were i come form they are expensive!!!!! $75 for a big typhoon!!!!:eek: the reason i recomened the freezer 7 is that they are only $20 cad:D

[rob725]

1 meg is enough for crunching. If you think you might want to expand later and are worried about 4 sticks (seen some success and some complaints, but have no personal experience) you can just get a 1 gig stick now, course you'll be running single channel.

If you're looking at $275 corsair, spend a little more and get the gskill hz, espcially if your going to push that 6400 with wc. You'll have to hit 900 with your ram to get that 6400 to 3.6 ghz+, which is quite doable on water. The corsair may do it, but the hz responds favorably to voltage:gskill hz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231065)

I haven't tried it, but this geil is interesting at a little over $300 for ddr 1000 at 4-4-4-12 timings: Geil 1000 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144032)

[rob725]

i know ram prices are through the roof!!!!!!! ya those are good coolers but were i come form they are expensive!!!!! $75 for a big typhoon!!!!:eek: the reason i recomened the frezzer 7 is that they are only $20 cad:D

Freezer 7 is a great value. I see a lot of peeps using them.

[DAK1640]

Hmmm. GSkill HZ huh? Works well with P5B-Dx ?

[[XC] hipno650]

i can't get g skill geil or team in canada!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: it sucks cuz they seem to oc good.

Edit: well it looks like i can get g skill and team in canada from ncix. W00T!!!!!!

[[XC] moddolicous]

I think the E6400 should be fine. As far as ram goes, the ones from this thread are cheap and seem to do pretty well:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118847
If you want to get crazy, you could send your conroe to FCG and he could take the IHS off of it for you. I dont think water cooling is necessary unless you want it to be quiet. I'm thinking maybe a big typhoon or some of Scythe's products. Search around the air cooling forum and xtreme bandwith sections for some better ideas for your build.

[DAK1640]

Can anyone compare a P4 Prescot vs Conroe WCG output for me ?

I can compare Prescot vs 4400+ and the AMD is about 23% more output (as measured over 60 days).

[RickH]

I just upgraded from a 4800+ to an E6400 about a week ago. My E6400 is OC'd to 3.5 GHz stable on water, and is crunching pretty close to 50% faster than the AMD, which was OC'd to 2.64 GHz. Your 4400+ is at 2.75 GHz (nice!), so let's see: 1.23 * 1.5 * (2.64/2.75) = 1.77x with E6400 @ 3.5 GHz. If you stay at 3 GHz, it'll be more like 1.5x. 'Course, those are rough estimates, not trying to account for RAM differences, etc.

FWIW, I went with the P5W DH Deluxe, so that I could run SLI for games (using very slightly hacked drivers). It overclocks great, and 3 GHz is no stretch at all for it. Being stable at 3.5 is pretty good, but 3.2-3.4 is pretty common. Above 3.5, I start having problems with Orthos, and around 3.7 I start having SuperPI errors. Lots of people are posting OCs of 3.6-3.8, but not 24/7 stable.

The P5B Deluxe seems a little bit better overclocker, but the SLI is limited to 8x & 4x instead of normal 8x & 8x, so I passed. I'm not too familiar with the others.

[DAK1640]

Thank you RickH, most valuable feedback.

[NO1B4ME]

I just upgraded from a 4800+ to an E6400 about a week ago. My E6400 is OC'd to 3.5 GHz stable on water, and is crunching pretty close to 50% faster than the AMD, which was OC'd to 2.64 GHz. Your 4400+ is at 2.75 GHz (nice!), so let's see: 1.23 * 1.5 * (2.64/2.75) = 1.77x with E6400 @ 3.5 GHz. If you stay at 3 GHz, it'll be more like 1.5x. 'Course, those are rough estimates, not trying to account for RAM differences, etc.

FWIW, I went with the P5W DH Deluxe, so that I could run SLI for games (using very slightly hacked drivers). It overclocks great, and 3 GHz is no stretch at all for it. Being stable at 3.5 is pretty good, but 3.2-3.4 is pretty common. Above 3.5, I start having problems with Orthos, and around 3.7 I start having SuperPI errors. Lots of people are posting OCs of 3.6-3.8, but not 24/7 stable.

The P5B Deluxe seems a little bit better overclocker, but the SLI is limited to 8x & 4x instead of normal 8x & 8x, so I passed. I'm not too familiar with the others.

What Watercooling are you using? What volts are you feeding the E6400 to get 3.5.

[RickH]

Here's a settings dump:
BIOS 1305
CPU Freq 440, DRAM Freq 880 (1:1), Performance Auto, PCI Expr 101, PCI 33.33
MemV 2.3 (Corsair 8500C5), VCore 1.5 (droops to ~1.48 actual)
FSB V Auto, MCH V 1.75 (newer board rev with 1.85 MCH cap), ICH V Auto
DRAM Timings 4, 4, 4, 12, 4
Hyperpath 3 Disabled, DRAM Throttling Auto
PEG Auto, Auto, Auto, Norm

Watercooling is 8-10W DDC w/ Alphacool top (center inlet), Apogee, PA120.3 (rad is overkill for now, but I wanted headroom for possible Kentsfield and/or DX10 video later)

To make up for no CPU heatsink air, I mounted a Yate Loon on a Zalman fan bracket over the DRAM slots, with the upper right corner angled down so the fan blows across both the NB/power chips and the SB; runs silent at 500 RPM. I peeled the stupid caps off the mobo heatsinks, but didn't bother redoing the thermal goop (good enough temps already).

Namely (21C ambient):
Speedfan idle/WCG/Orthos temps: CPU 27/36/40, Mobo 38/38/38
Coretemp: 38/46/48 (+/- 1C each)

Pretty happy with it so far. Stable & no real problems.