Is it a really bad idea?

[JoeBar]

I'm getting bored with my case (Tt Kandalf). It served me well for 1 1/2 years but i find myself more often lately looking for cases on the net.
However what was holding me back is that i want something different from the usual full tower case (like Kandalf and Stacker). Apart from my top case (MM's UFO that is) which is way to expensive to get it here, one case that really caught my eye is the new Tt's Mozart TX (http://thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/mozart_tx/MozartTX.htm).
The prob is that although it a room for a triple rad. It hasn't got that much for my PA120.3 without modding it (cutting the above cage). Something that i wouldn't like to my new case (i did all the modding i wanted to my Kandalf). However it fits 2 double rads perfectly.
The question is this. How really bad is the idea of replacing my PA120.3 with 2 double BIGT or MCR220? Or is out of the question?

[Herc130]

I don't know how bad an idea it is to replace your PA120.3 with two 2x120 rads, but I am trying to fit in two PA120.2 and one PA120.3 on a Mozart Tx myself. Not as easy and straight forward as I was hoping, maybe I shoulda set my sights lower for a first build and mostly tooless in an apartment . My neighbors are gonna love me when I start cutting with my dremel. :)



However it fits 2 double rads perfectly.


Not exactly. It probably fits the Thermaltake 2x120 rads perfectly. It does not fit the two PA120.2s I have perfectly. Although it's not much to make it fit. One set of 120mm fan holes will line up...then you kinda gotta wing the other side.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3826/picture006mediumrf8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7944/picture008mediummi0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Gonna cut that HDD bay, make that whole level of the case into another seperate compartment and put a DDC+ with res top right there, then maybe a second DDC+ with top (no res) in series right after. Then if I have to, use an elbow to drop the tube straight down to the mobo area if I can't get the tubes to bend without kinking.

You don't have to cut out the HDD bay if you don't want, plenty of other places to put a pump.


This was/is my original idea of where I was gonna put the PA120.3. Note, I don't have my PA120.3 yet, so am figuring out fitting using my PA120.2 and trying to guess how much more space I would need for hight.


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4770/picture045zf6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4381/picture048fw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'd have to do a pretty good deal of cutting to make that work. I'd have to cut out the front cage to get an extra .5-1" of depth space. Then cut to fit it for height, losing some HDD bays (not a big deal) maybe even 1 5.25 bay and even then, the mobo tray area will look cramped. Something I wanted to avoid. Possibly a GT stealth would work better. think it is less then 1" for depth while the PA120.3 is 1.77"?

Other ideas I was thinking of is putting it on the PSU side:


http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6246/picture049jf7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9878/picture050mi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/818/picture052uq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/7316/picture051pf1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


You'll still have to cut into one of the 5.25 bays, but nothing major. You'll also have to cut just a little of the mobo tray to get to the barbs, but once again, nothing major. Ther is enough space to put fans in as well and have space on the otherside to allow for airflow. Not the best airflow I realize, but it's a PA120.3 and 1 of three rads, hopefully overall this set-up will still cool fine.....maybe have to cut that support beam...not a big deal it's not load bearing, yah. I might be going this route. I really want to keep everything internal (except I'll probably run fans on the outside for the PA120.2s to have a push pull deal on the rads). Biggest problem I have with this is that I was planning on getting an enermax 1000watt PSU and not sure if I'll be leaving enough space for that.


http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/803/picture053hi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6486/picture054xe6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8899/picture056hh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The bottom area right below the PSU is pretty much unused. Has a cut out to put an 80mm fan in, if you cut that out then you can fit in the PA120.3 sideways. It'd be overhanging out the case a little (3/4ths the width of a 120mm fan or so....), but it's on the back. You can have the barbs internal of the case and cut out a little of the mobo tray (even less then if it stood vertical) or hang the barbs out side and run the lins back through the punch out holes Thermaltake already has provided the case with.

[Marci]

Fans go on the outside of the shrouds, not the inside... way you have em mounted, may as well lose the shrouds and fix fans straight to radiator.
And 3x rads is MASSIVE willy-waving overkill...

[septim]

personally i'd opt to cut out those 4 120mm fan holes to fit 2 PA120.2 (if possible)

i'd not like the look of a Radiator besides the mobe, you might aquire a slightly longer GPU card and you're screwed again...

[syne_24]

damn bro 3x PA that's crazy lol

[Herc130]

Fans go on the outside of the shrouds, not the inside... way you have em mounted, may as well lose the shrouds and fix fans straight to radiator.
And 3x rads is MASSIVE willy-waving overkill...


I didn't realize :p: , but thinking about it, I thought the shroud was to keep the air from disperssing to the side instead of going through the rad as intended. The fans would be pulling air in (pulling into the shroud, pushing it through the rad), so the shroud can still function in that manner and screwing the fan to the shroud and then the shroud to the rad does give the fans a little more space from the rad then it would if the fans were directly mounted to the rad, which is why I guess they optimally wanted it mounted outside the shroud. If I can mount it the optimal way, I will, but if not I will mount it inside the shroud :D



personally i'd opt to cut out those 4 120mm fan holes to fit 2 PA120.2 (if possible)

i'd not like the look of a Radiator besides the mobe, you might aquire a slightly longer GPU card and you're screwed again...

Those are to be cut and then I'll probably mount the rads with brackets. Too bad all I have to fabricate a bracket is one channel lock lol

Ther is .4" of clearance for the vid card as it is pictured. After cutting out the front fan mesh and sinking the rad into the face plate area, would probably have about 1.5" or so. Take off the shroud and get even more space. And that vid card is a pretty long one as it is. But I don't like the look of it there either. Too crowded looking. I'll probably be going with option #2. Think it might be possible to mount it there with no cutting of the bays......just really have to wedge it in. Although I will have to cut the support beam. It will fit with the support beam there...the problem is getting it into position with the support beam there :( . Hopefully get the PA120.3 in today.

[JoeBar]

Thanks for all the help and photos Herc. :)
I have two suggestions. One is don't use the alphacool tank on the DDC and second is that 3 rads is overkill but if u think it as exteme, that's fine. ;)

However i still have the question. Is it a bad idea to replace my PA120.3 with 2 MCR220 or bigt?
Not enough money for 2 PA's... :(

[marauder16]

Why not save a bit and then buy two PA120.2s?

[Herc130]

Thanks for all the help and photos Herc. :)
I have two suggestions. One is don't use the alphacool tank on the DDC and second is that 3 rads is overkill but if u think it as exteme, that's fine. ;)

However i still have the question. Is it a bad idea to replace my PA120.3 with 2 MCR220 or bigt?
Not enough money for 2 PA's... :(

Maybe go with 2 of the Black Ice Extreme's if you're gonna use high cfm fans or the pro's if your not. Or wait for the gt gen two rads HWlabs (http://www.hwlabs.com/).

I'll be keeping the res top on one of the DDC+'s. Already have two DDC+ right now with alphacool tops. Think I lose 1LPM for putting the res top on. I would rather buy a third DDC+ to make up for it, then take the top off. Probably gonna buy a third pump anyway :)


Overkill? The PA120.3 cools the water coming from the CPU/NB blocks before it goes into the GPU leg of the loop. The 2 PA120.2's mounted in series cools the water coming out of the GPU's before it goes back into the beginning of the loop. I am planning to get two of whatever the DX10 equivalant of a 7950GX2 will be as well as a physX card (the new 590 SLI Asus mobos have 3 PCIx 16 slots). So that is 5 GPU cores to cool....wow....

The current 7950GX2's already put out a ton of heat. Try to water cool 2 of the current 7950GX2's with just one PA120.2 is probably pushing at the outer limits of the rads cooling capacity if it doesn't flat out exceed it (I don't actually know this....). I hear the new DX10 cards will put out even more heat.

I don't think it's overkill, but maybe 3 PA120.2's woulda been sufficiant and certainly easier to install. But I thought I could fit the PA120.3 in easy and it was $104 for a PA120.2 or $115 for the PA120.3 . Price wise, not much difference to me. If I thought I could fit 3 PA120.3's in, trust me, I woulda went for it :)

[Xavior]

JoeBar, you might as well get another case. Getting 2 other radiators and dumping your PA120.3 is not worth the money.


Maybe go with 2 of the Black Ice Extreme's if you're gonna use high cfm fans or the pro's if your not. Or wait for the gt gen two rads HWlabs (http://www.hwlabs.com/).

The GTS series have been out for a few months already. MCRs perform better.


Overkill? The PA120.3 cools the water coming from the CPU/NB blocks before it goes into the GPU leg of the loop. The 2 PA120.2's mounted in series cools the water coming out of the GPU's before it goes back into the beginning of the loop.

No use, water temperature at different locations of the loop barely differ.

[SiGfever]

I didn't realize :p: , but thinking about it, I thought the shroud was to keep the air from disperssing to the side instead of going through the rad as intended. The fans would be pulling air in (pulling into the shroud, pushing it through the rad), so the shroud can still function in that manner and screwing the fan to the shroud and then the shroud to the rad does give the fans a little more space from the rad then it would if the fans were directly mounted to the rad, which is why I guess they optimally wanted it mounted outside the shroud. If I can mount it the optimal way, I will, but if not I will mount it inside the shroud :D




Those are to be cut and then I'll probably mount the rads with brackets. Too bad all I have to fabricate a bracket is one channel lock lol

Ther is .4" of clearance for the vid card as it is pictured. After cutting out the front fan mesh and sinking the rad into the face plate area, would probably have about 1.5" or so. Take off the shroud and get even more space. And that vid card is a pretty long one as it is. But I don't like the look of it there either. Too crowded looking. I'll probably be going with option #2. Think it might be possible to mount it there with no cutting of the bays......just really have to wedge it in. Although I will have to cut the support beam. It will fit with the support beam there...the problem is getting it into position with the support beam there :( . Hopefully get the PA120.3 in today.

Dude,

Marci and Cathar invented that rad and if he gives you advice about its use, man that is golden. Take it to the bank and draw interest! :fact:

[mykeos]

guys,guys,you're all just wasting money on those rads,with all that $ you could get ya self a decent SS.i did;)

[CedricFP]

Wow... 3 PA's.. that's a lot of money.

[marauder16]

hmmmm....more money then brains....Question where is the rejected heat going if rad inside of case.....hummmm recycled heat pump. best use a rad box an mount rad/rads on the rear of case to dump the heat, 3/8" tubing pci slot any bigger need to use hole saw
But isn't the point of having a really BIG case to put everything inside, incl. the rads? :stick:


don't use the alphacool tank on the DDC Why?

And why not save a bit and then buy two PA120.2s?

[SiGfever]

Sorry JoeBar,

We kinda got off your topic. :nono: :slapass:

[JoeBar]

JoeBar, you might as well get another case. Getting 2 other radiators and dumping your PA120.3 is not worth the money.
I haven't yet found a case that is so much better and different than my Kandalf. My point isn't to change my case for a stacker. Have u got a certain case in mind?
The point of this thread was basically the performance diffs between the 2 setups so as to see if the plan is viable.
I haven't still decided if i'm going to do it or not cause i haven't convinced myself to give up my beloved PA. All in all i may stick with my Kandalf for now, mod the hell out of it (paint it) and wait for a case.
But on the other hand i really like the mozart.
Decisions... :confused:


Sorry JoeBar,

We kinda got off your topic. :nono: :slapass:
NP m8! :)

[Xavior]

What kind of case are you looking for? A subtle sleek case or something eye-catching like Thermaltake?

[JoeBar]

Lot's of room, window and door on the left of the case (like armor/stacker). can fit a PA120.3 and doesn't have front doors.

[marauder16]

Lot's of room, window and door on the left of the case (like armor/stacker). can fit a PA120.3 and doesn't have front doors.
U2-UFO? :fact:

[JoeBar]

Have u read my initial post? ;)

[marauder16]

Have u read my initial post? ;)
Yes, but I forgot about that 'small' fact... :p: sorry

btw. I'd like to suggest the TJ07 because of it's looks and the lower chamber where you can put your PA120.3, and you can also order from Performance PCs a modded version with a bolt-on window, caskets and so on. I think it's the best case there is ATM, although it's a 'little' expensive. :rolleyes:

Few posts up you said to smn not to put the Alphacool top on his pump, can you tell me the reason why not? :)

[JoeBar]

TJ07 was one of the cases i thought of but it a bit tight to fit in a PA120.3 (although it fits) plus i'm a bit skeptical about it's aircooling abilities.

As for the alpacool tank. It lowers performance (u can't use top inlet) and it's a terribly designed res that cause air suck probs with a powerfull pump like DDC.

[septim]

yes with the alphacool reservoir for a ddc, you'll be able to see what a vortex/whirlpool of water... not good for pump...

the mini fridge looking mozart needs modding those 4 120mm fan to accomodate 2 PA120.2, might be a worthwhile project for you JoeBar...

2 PA120.2 is still better than an MCR in terms of restriction...
1 PA120.3 on the left side of case if it would fit, but modding case panel in pita...

[SiGfever]

JoeBar,

If you settle on the Mozart case have you looked at these heater cores. I know that they will require larger cfm fans and really don't know how much cfm is required. You could contact them and ask if (4) D12SM-12 (70cfm) Yate Loon's will do the job.

http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=1701&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=1707&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

They aren't ThermoChill but it is an option. :shrug:

[[XC] leviathan18]

lian li g70 ? i know isnt flashy and all but i think is a wonderful case

[marauder16]

TJ07 was one of the cases i thought of but it a bit tight to fit in a PA120.3 (although it fits) plus i'm a bit skeptical about it's aircooling abilities.

As for the alpacool tank. It lowers performance (u can't use top inlet) and it's a terribly designed res that cause air suck probs with a powerfull pump like DDC.
Well how can four fans not be good air cooling?
And for fitting the PA120.3 in, I think there is enough space is you remove the HDD cages and mount the HDDs in the upper chamber (somehow), that is easy if you don't have 5 or more HDDs though.
And for the Alphacool tank, I read 'top' that's why I asked, I can't believe I read it wrong two times :slap: sorry for bugging about that...

[JoeBar]

the mini fridge looking mozart needs modding those 4 120mm fan to accomodate 2 PA120.2, might be a worthwhile project for you JoeBar...

2 PA120.2 is still better than an MCR in terms of restriction...
1 PA120.3 on the left side of case if it would fit, but modding case panel in pita...
Yes i know that they are less restrictive than the PA's but for now i don't have the cash for the whole project (case and PA's) i may postpone it for the near future if i decide to go with the PA's.

JoeBar,

If you settle on the Mozart case have you looked at these heater cores. I know that they will require larger cfm fans and really don't know how much cfm is required. You could contact them and ask if (4) D12SM-12 (70cfm) Yate Loon's will do the job.

http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=1701&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=1707&prevaction=category&previd=2&prevstart=0

They aren't ThermoChill but it is an option. :shrug:
I thought about it as an option but i'm too skeptical about the noise and their performance. How do they compare to a PA120.3 or 2 MCR or PA?

lian li g70 ? i know isnt flashy and all but i think is a wonderful case
It's a nice case but it needs quite a modding for a PA, it doesn't have a window panel, plus if u put it on the upper chamber then the lower will be a bit crowded with the psu, pump and hd's all in the same place.

Well how can four fans not be good air cooling?
And for fitting the PA120.3 in, I think there is enough space is you remove the HDD cages and mount the HDDs in the upper chamber (somehow), that is easy if you don't have 5 or more HDDs though.
I'll be using a 2 5.25 lcd panel plus DD's double 5.25 res and 2-3 hd's. I don't think that there's enough room for me... :(

Thanks guys for your suggestions. But as u can see it's a bit complicated decision... :p:

[SiGfever]

Quote: JoeBar,

"I thought about it as an option but i'm too skeptical about the noise and their performance. How do they compare to a PA120.3 or 2 MCR or PA?"


Can anything EVER really compare to a ThermoChill rad? :D

[JoeBar]

The voice of the devil.... :D

:lol:

[JoeBar]

BTW how do u mount these heater cores? I don't see any srew holes... :confused:

[Herc130]

To fit my pump/res where I wanted it, had to go down to only 2 HDD spots (one spot being where the floppy drive would go if I used one). Can hide away a third HDD if I really wanted.


http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/721/picture075mediumhv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Could have kept it at three HDD slots if I took the res top off maybe even 4 if I had the inlet going in the front. Could also just put the pump somewhere else and keep em all. I have never used more then 2 HDD's in one computer so I was pretty ok with going down to 2 slots.


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2839/picture065oe2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6914/picture081jw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Had to cut out a part of one 5.25 bay and still need to file it down some more, but wanted to fit some things before doing that. That bay is still usable for some bay devices, but not any drives. Would have to be something that is all "face" no depth to it except to just hold it down. Will be doing somekinda panel to seprate the front air from the rear air on the 120.3 . Ther's almost 1" of space behind the rad. Not the optimal airflow, but I wanted everything internal and think it will work fine.

Think that is probably the least intrusive place to mount a 120.3 rad on this case (internal that is).

Also, do you already have the 2x5.25 bay LCD panel? You might already know, but if you didn't, the top bay of the Mozart is actually 7" and soon Thermaltake will be releasing a 7" flip out LCD that only needs that one top bay slot.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6346/lcd49yc7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

For $379 (Frozen's price, sure it will be cheaper anywhere else), I'm in no rush to get one.