Quick question for the WCG guys: Conroe / Allendale...

[Got Chow]

I am contemplating upgrading my Opty 165 system to a Conroe / Allendale system. Not that I really need a reason to upgrade, but maybe I can justify it more if you guys can tell me that a C2D setup is going to crunch quite a bit better than the Optys. So...?

I know this is not a hardware forum per se, but the question is pretty much directly related to the projects on WCG. Are the Conroes kick ass crunchers??

TIA.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

Absolutely! Id' probably get the ASUS P5B Deluxe and an e6400. After I see how my little asrock VIA-based conroe board does, I'll probably order a P5B Deluxe for the E6400 I just got in the mail.

[KaptainBlaZzed]

Yes is the answer.

A C2D will crunch quite a bit better than an opte 165.

go here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=115492) and check out the benches for different CPU's.

Hint: C2D ownes :fact:

[RSmura]

My C2D on an ASUS p5wdg2 professional out crunches any other box I have by a LONG SHOT! I've oc'd it about 30% and it'll do more if I take the time with it. Was 2.66 GHz and now 3.45. It's a 6700.

[Movieman]

My C2D on an ASUS p5wdg2 professional out crunches any other box I have by a LONG SHOT! I've oc'd it about 30% and it'll do more if I take the time with it. Was 2.66 GHz and now 3.45. It's a 6700.
Next step...Kentsfield..:D

[Haltech]

Dont waste your money on a 975x based board. They are all :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty except for the $300 ovepriced Asus pro...

Get a 965 board, like the P5B and a 6600.. If the price is too steep, consider the 6400 allendale.

Is it worth it? Yes, very much so... it consumes less power as well :)

[rob725]

C2d's are awesome crunchers. P5b and 6400 is a great combo.

Nice Kentsfield, Kaptain. Does boinc use all four cores?

[KaptainBlaZzed]

Nice Kentsfield, Kaptain. Does boinc use all four cores?


Yes BOINC uses all 4 cores.:hump:

It is burning up the competition in QMC, currently Kent has the highest RAC on QMC. It is also smokin fast at SOB. What am i saying it is smokin fast at everything.

[meshmesh]

This thread came just in time for me. Am putting together my shopping list. My thought (please note I am a nooob in OC):
First: E6400 vs E6600: IMO E6400 is a much better choice. Why? Because E6600 is a chip that failed intel test as an E6800 then failed again as an E6700. On the other hand, the E6400 could be a great E6800 but had one bad (out of it's 32 million) cache transistor, so it got demoted to E6400. So the probability of running it at FSB 400 (3.2 Ghz) would be high and possibly with low voltage as well. And since it has less cache, full load temperature would not be a limiting factor.

Second: For a dedicated cruncher, SLI boards are an overkill and expensive. How about the Asus P5B-VM (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1312&l1=3&l2=11&l3=332) with the G965 chip. Same as the P965 but with intel graphics built in and no SLI? Yes, the added graphics will generate some heat when running in 3D, but not when crunching so NB would probably be OK. maybe slap a 40mm fan on it. And at $130 it is quite cheeper as well. My only concern is that you guys don't review this knid of board because it does not have SLi, so I don't know it's bios limitations.

Any comments please?

[Movieman]

This thread came just in time for me. Am putting together my shopping list. My thought (please note I am a nooob in OC):
First: E6400 vs E6600: IMO E6400 is a much better choice. Why? Because E6600 is a chip that failed intel test as an E6800 then failed again as an E6700. On the other hand, the E6400 could be a great E6800 but had one bad (out of it's 32 million) cache transistor, so it got demoted to E6400. So the probability of running it at FSB 400 (3.2 Ghz) would be high and possibly with low voltage as well. And since it has less cache, full load temperature would not be a limiting factor.

Second: For a dedicated cruncher, SLI boards are an overkill and expensive. How about the Asus P5B-VM (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1312&l1=3&l2=11&l3=332) with the G965 chip. Same as the P965 but with intel graphics built in and no SLI? Yes, the added graphics will generate some heat when running in 3D, but not when crunching so NB would probably be OK. maybe slap a 40mm fan on it. And at $130 it is quite cheeper as well. My only concern is that you guys don't review this knid of board because it does not have SLi, so I don't know it's bios limitations.

Any comments please?
Sounds like a great idea for a "bang for your buck" cruncher..and it does have one PCI-e X16 so it can be used for gaming with a decent card..
Go for it..:D

[[XC] flat-four]

I'd love to see a review on that board too. I've been wanting to replace a cruncher I have in a m-atx case. That board with a 6400 would be awesome if the fsb doesn't cap out too low

[meshmesh]

Sounds like a great idea for a "bang for your buck" cruncher..and it does have one PCI-e X16 so it can be used for gaming with a decent card..

It will not be used for games (at least not by me :) ). Hence the G965.


Go for it..:D
Well, am waiting a bit to see how things go with something else, if you know what I mean.:)

PS: MM: Thanks for making me laugh.

[[XC] leviathan18]

edited because someone very annoying wanted :slapass:.........


im going to be in the top soon :p: wait for me guys LOL

[Haltech]

This thread came just in time for me. Am putting together my shopping list. My thought (please note I am a nooob in OC):
First: E6400 vs E6600: IMO E6400 is a much better choice. Why? Because E6600 is a chip that failed intel test as an E6800 then failed again as an E6700. On the other hand, the E6400 could be a great E6800 but had one bad (out of it's 32 million) cache transistor, so it got demoted to E6400. So the probability of running it at FSB 400 (3.2 Ghz) would be high and possibly with low voltage as well. And since it has less cache, full load temperature would not be a limiting factor.

Second: For a dedicated cruncher, SLI boards are an overkill and expensive. How about the Asus P5B-VM (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1312&l1=3&l2=11&l3=332) with the G965 chip. Same as the P965 but with intel graphics built in and no SLI? Yes, the added graphics will generate some heat when running in 3D, but not when crunching so NB would probably be OK. maybe slap a 40mm fan on it. And at $130 it is quite cheeper as well. My only concern is that you guys don't review this knid of board because it does not have SLi, so I don't know it's bios limitations.

Any comments please?

I thought someone posted a thread up on the P5B-VM and said it doesnt have the same voltages..

[rob725]

Don't know about that board, yet. The 6600 will crunch better per clock because of the cache and won't require the fsb to clock as high due to the higher multi, so it may be a good match for that board. The p5b is a good choice for 6300/6400 because it is so easy to get high fsb clocks.

[RSmura]

so what you are all telling me is that I wasted my money on the p5wdg2 pro mobo? NICE! I told him I was a noob and needed advice.

Spend big or go home he said...

Hi MM... :)

[Movieman]

so what you are all telling me is that I wasted my money on the p5wdg2 pro mobo? NICE! I told him I was a noob and needed advice.

Spend big or go home he said...

Hi MM... :)
Hey, I still stick with what I told you. IF I was buying, that is what I would get myself. When it comes to boards I buy the best and only the best..;)

[rob725]

No way! You got the best 975 board there is and if I was building another 6600+ board that's what I would get. In fact, I would love to trade you my p5w for that bad boy.

Another choice many seem to pair with 6300/6400 is the gigabyte ds3 which costs less than the p5b.

My wife doesn't game either, so I just got her a really inexpensive fanless 6200 video card, which works great.

[Haltech]

No way! You got the best 975 board there is and if I was building another 6600+ board that's what I would get. In fact, I would love to trade you my p5w for that bad boy.

Another choice many seem to pair with 6300/6400 is the gigabyte ds3 which costs less than the p5b.

My wife doesn't game either, so I just got her a really inexpensive fanless 6200 video card, which works great.

So you have 2 PCI-X slots that are a complete waste... the P5WDH should clock JUST as high as this board for what it costs... but it doesnt. instead, they make you buy this for $300+

P5B kicks its ass for $100 cheaper.

[meshmesh]

This Intel thingy is very confusing. And the Intel forum section has very looong threads with a lot of contradictory info, to the extent that makes it less usefull.

@haltech: Seems not enough testing done. Only one report of 327 (I think) FSb limit. Just found another commenting on the "possible" not a good OCer.

It appears that maybe the Gigabyte 965P-S3 (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114156) would be a better alternative + some cheep VGA card. Will need to dig into this further now. And I thought I got it figured out :rolleyes:

@rob725: So E6400 400x8 or E6600 356x9 ? Which is attainable at lower core tempertures? thinking of using Zlaman CNPS9500. Thanks.

[Movieman]

So you have 2 PCI-X slots that are a complete waste... the P5WDH should clock JUST as high as this board for what it costs... but it doesnt. instead, they make you buy this for $300+

P5B kicks its ass for $100 cheaper.
He had asked me what board I'd go with and I caught from him that $$ wasn't an issue so I told him the pro board..
You have more talent than the average guy making the cheaper boards "work"
I thought this was the best bet for him..

[Got Chow]

The way that I've read the Intel forum is this:

The Allendales (2M cache models) like the E6300 and E6400 run really well on the i965 chipset. So a 6400 and Asus P5b Deluxe works out nicely.

The Conroes (4M cache models) 6600+, run better on the i975 chipset. So far, one of the best 975 bards is the P5WDG2-WS Pro. The highly anticipated P5W64 Pro looks to be very good as well.

I haven't decided which route to go with. This is going into my main rig so it will probably be the Conroe w/ one of those workstation level boards. ;)

[rob725]

So you have 2 PCI-X slots that are a complete waste... the P5WDH should clock JUST as high as this board for what it costs... but it doesnt. instead, they make you buy this for $300+

P5B kicks its ass for $100 cheaper.

True enough, but it depends on what your looking for. It's not much more than p5wdh and it seems like people have a little easier time getting it comfortably into the 400+ fsb than p5wdh. But as you say, either one is going to be fine for 6700 at 10x multi on air and plenty have gotten really good overclocks on p5wdh. I've been really happy with mine.

There are more useful sata's on the ws pro and the pci-x slots can be used for hardware raid.

It seems like 975 is a little faster per clock than 965, but the difference is probably not very noticeable in anything but a benchmark.

So, bang for the buck, I'd have to agree that its pretty hard to beat a p5b and a 6300. If you want to try for more than 3400-3600ghz or just want a little more fsb headroom get a 6400 instead.

[rob725]

This Intel thingy is very confusing. And the Intel forum section has very looong threads with a lot of contradictory info, to the extent that makes it less usefull.

Yes and since everything is so new and there are not enough well-tested choices mobo prices are way higher than they should be or will be down the road a spell.


@rob725: So E6400 400x8 or E6600 356x9 ? Which is attainable at lower core tempertures? thinking of using Zlaman CNPS9500. Thanks.

There seems to be some variation chip to chip and I have read that the 6600+ may naturally run a little hotter due to larger cache, but in very general terms, the cpu heat will be dependent on voltage and it will take similar voltage to either chip to get the same speed, regardless of fsb.

In any case, at 3.2ghz, you will not have to worry about cpu heat with that cooler. These chips make 3.2 very easily. For me, if I was trying to save the money, I would save the money on the chip and put it towards the p5b; 400 mhz is absolutely no sweat for this mobo. Although, at higher fsb you need to think about northbridge chipset cooling.

[STEvil]

ASRock 775Dual-VSTA can hit 300fsb as far as I know.. i've only got a Celeron 325 on mine right now but it goes to 210fsb (4ghz) at stock volts (1.31v measured with DMM) so far... no stress testing so that might drop considerably.

Board is $98 here in canada, if the PLL can be adjusted from within windows may be possible to push it over the 350fsb limit in bios. No voltage adjustments in bios other than AGP and Mem.. but that can be remedied :D

[[XC] DragonOrta]

STEvil, I'll let you know how that board clocks with an e6400 tomorrow. I just got my case, a HDD, and the e6400 in for the Dual-VSTA board I got a month or so ago.

[rob725]

@meshmesh:

The S3 is definitly promising; a few great results for $100 mobo. Was watching the action in that thread and the info just kinda stopped. Like to hear more about peoples experience with it. If you go that way, please let us know how it goes.

[STEvil]

VIA PT800 chipset iirc.. could be wrong. Trying to find the PLL at the moment.

EDIT

PT880 Pro/Ultra. Lots of info here: http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:k3T_VGXWR9UJ:forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D90194+775dual-vsta%2BPLL&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1

Voltage mods: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95250

PLL's possibly: http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:3rNatPOpldoJ:www.xbitlabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D11213+775dual-vsta%2BPLL&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=2

III) FSB clockgen // cpucool fsb
conroe865pe has pll winbond :
conroe865pe should have, according to systools site, http://www.techpowerup.com/wiki/doku...sd_unsupported
as clock_generator:
W83194BG-SD
winbond website:
The winbond website:
W83194BG-SD
Step-less Frequency INTEL 865™ series chipset Clock Gen., Pb-free
SSOP 48
http://www.winbond-usa.com/products/...3194BG-SDc.pdf

I mailed clockgen guy and he replied (thx to Franck from cpuz) he has beta that supports similar winbond pll
W83195BG: he thinks it is close to the used pll.

Cpucool responded that it has support for W83194BR-SD and this pll (comparing data sheets) is equal to W83194BG-SD

[rob725]

For me, if I was trying to save the money, I would save the money on the chip and put it towards the p5b;

I'm not sure I agree with myself.:) You said right off the bat to remember you were new to overclocking, and less has to go right to get 350-360 x 9 than for 400 x 8, where for instance you will need RAM capable of running reliably at 800mhz.

[RSmura]

Please excuse the noob question, but aren't all the C2D, except the EXTREME, locked multiplier?

[Got Chow]

RSmura,

Yes and no. Yes, they are locked so that you cannot go to a higher multiplier. But, kind of like the A64s, you can take the multiplier lower, DEPENDING on whether the motherboard allows for that or not. So far, most (if not all) 965 chipsets allow for this. There is a new P5W DH beta BIOS that allows this, but it is not finalized yet.

I believe it should function in the way that you cannot go up in multi unless it's the extreme edition, but you should be able to go down in multi so you can max that FSB.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

Well, the 775Dual-VSTA will have to wait until next week, because the BIOS I have doesn't support Conroe. I've ordered a cel-D from from Newegg to flash it, which will hopefully get here soon.

EDIT: And C2D is definately the best cruncher available. I love looking through my results in WCG and seeing that my completion time is at least 1/2, sometimes 1/3-1/4 of what the rest of them are.

[STEvil]

what bios are you using? I've got 1.3 on mine for now, but no C2D for it yet.

The Celeron is benching at 4.1ghz with less than (1.28v) stock volts (1.4v) on stock air ! Prime stable somewhere around 4.0 ish probably.

Latest bios avail is 1.7 I think, should find a modding tool for it.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

I have the 1.10 BIOS. I have 1.80 loaded on a floppy and all ready for flashing once my cel-d gets here.

[rob725]

For those considering e6400: Looking at the thread below, it seems like e6400s may be somewhat more stubborn about being coaxed into higher clock speeds. Obviously, this is a generalization and there are plenty of exceptions and may be a passed issue (there seems to be a growing feeling for c2ds that later-week processors are improving in oc ability), but I notice that many have had no success moving passed 3.2ghz.

I have had the chance to play a little more with my wife's rig and can also say that it does not seem to like going above 3.2. There are still many things I haven't tried (I am am not overly motivated to figure this out as a 3.2 c2d is still a smoking machine which she is very happy with) and it may not be the chip, but I can say that that both the e6300 and e6700 rigs would run 3.2 with less coaxing and went beyond it very easily.

Again, not much of a test sample, but I pick up somewhat of a pattern in this thread. Food for thought anyway.

e6400 overclocking thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111027)

[meshmesh]

i assume you are aware of this thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114998) and this (http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23803) external post as well.

in a nut shell, the boards hate to be booted at default CPU multi between 370-399, but happy below 365 and 400 and above.

So yes, the 6700 (10*320) and the E6300 (7*457) are OK.
The 6400 is also OK (8*400) but not between 8*370 to 8*399. it will boot beyond 8*400 with no problem if your memeory allows it (but only up to ~415*8 using clockgen though). This is all explained in the threads.

[rob725]

Aware of those. Mine is even fine between 370-399. It doesn't like 405 or 410. Again, may not be chip related, but in looking through 6400 thread there seemed to be a fair number of people getting stuck at lower clocks and a couple observing that 6400's did not seem to clock as easy as 6300's. Just wanted to be sure anyone thinking about 6400 caught this thread.

Thanks.

[meshmesh]

Aware of those. Mine is even fine between 370-399. It doesn't like 405 or 410. Again, may not be chip related, but in looking through 6400 thread there seemed to be a fair number of people getting stuck at lower clocks and a couple observing that 6400's did not seem to clock as easy as 6300's. Just wanted to be sure anyone thinking about 6400 caught this thread.

Thanks.

Thanks Rob for the heads up. Been checking the thread now. Yes, some poeple have problems as you posted! One may initially think the E6300 are marginal E6400. This whole intel thing flies in the face of logic and has more to it than it appears on the surface. The next period is going to be an education period, me guess.

They are actually comparing production week! It might end up being total indiviual luck at the end. Maybe just get along with it and accept what one gets. And if say 400*8 is attainable, at good temperatures easy as you said, so be it and settle at that for 24/7 and be done.

BTW, to add to the confusion, just saw a thread on the new (cheap?) P5B-E.

[rob725]

It's ok only cuz it my wife's! :D

Otherwise I would be working to figure out if its the chip, mobo, ram, vmch, vfsb...I went through this stuff with the 6300 to get it to 500 fsb and managed to do dual 32m super-pi, but no prime. I also had to work a little to get the 6700 to run prime stable at 3.6 and to super-pi at 3.8. But neither of those rigs took any effort to run at 3.2 and very little voltage increase. The 6400 did not really take much work for 3.2, but it seemed to need a little more voltage.

Also, the 6300 and 6700 do not seem to mind running hot under load, whereas the 6400 past 400 wants to crap out before coretemps reach 60. ( Have had 6700 priming near 80.)

Maybe there is something to the weeks. My 6400 is wk 25, while 6300 is 27.

[meshmesh]

It's ok only cuz it my wife's! :D
And as long as the wife is happy, let it be. Mine is lucky to have a user account:)


Also, the 6300 and 6700 do not seem to mind running hot under load, whereas the 6400 past 400 wants to crap out before coretemps reach 60....

Not many reported for week 25 though. The individual chips vary considerably. For week 25:
3.30Ghz 1.50Vcore
3.36Ghz 1.50Vcore
3.44Ghz 1.36Vcore
3.58Ghz 1.40Vcore

Some guys are really unlucky:
3.4Ghz 1.5875v (north bridge at 1.45V though)

I guess the lucky ones had an E6800 with a bad cache while the unlucky ones may had a perfectly good cache but with a single weak transistor in the core logic itself. No way to find out before hand.

maybe Intel downgraded some chips to E6300 at week 27 to accomodate demand if the yeilds are good. They have done it before.

There are really many variables in this thing. Even a poorly applied TIM under the MCH may prevent OC. Maybe a 50mm fan would help. Who knows.


....( Have had 6700 priming near 80.)

Don't know about Intel, but my AMD shuts down at 61C. The 80C would be BBQ time! Not even worth it IMO.

[rob725]

Yep, that's why I'm not running at 3.6. That's also in-die coretemp. Asus probe would about 13 degrees cooler. At 3.5, I use 1.4375v and running wcg, coretemps stay around 55, probe at 42-43. For 3.6, i have to increase vcore to 1.55 and I just don't like those temps for 24/7. I am considering lapping the cpu to see if I can't run 3.6 a little cooler. The cpu was pretty concave on the other two, so I ended up lapping them. Not sure I will though as it is running so well at 3.5, I hate to mess with it just to get another 100mhz I prolly won't even notice in actual use.

The funny thing about the c2ds is how easily it is to get spoiled by them. They're faster per clock than any thing out there and we complain when we "only" get a 1ghz overclock. lol