Questions about my WC rig (nice pictures included!)

[DVL73]

Hi there,

I have a few questions about my system and hopefully you will be able to give me some answers ... and yes, this is my first post here ;)

Firstly, my system:

I had to change the HydrX for PrimoChill PC-ICE and introduce the AlphaCool plexi res, purely because of aesthetics reasons. Yeas, I know, it's hard to mix the style with substance ... but here is the explanation:

Before: (HydrX)

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/x1900_old_green.jpg



After: (PrimoChill PC-ICE UV blue)

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/x1900_inside_1_s.jpg


http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/wc_thecore.jpg

There you go :) Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res in full glory. Was this look worth the slight performance penalty ? - hell yeah :cool: ... and it is now the core of the cooling system - visible too. Now, I'm talking about the performance penalty, because plexi res placement does hurth the water flow a bit ... but how much?! (as I really like the aesthetics now) . More suprisingly, what I noticed with PC-ICE (compared to HydrX) is that my water flow rates are bit down (approx 1l/min ... or from 8.6 l/min to 7.4 l/min - measured by t-balancer). Is this normal? Temperatures are slightly up, I think ... maybe 1C - 2C. Can you recommend the PC-ICE at all and should I flush it out & ditch it from the system ? :( More importantly, is it safe for long term run (as I never had problems with HydrX) ?

Look at the whirlpool in the resevoir, at least if static picture can show. Laing DDC-1plus (new revision) does deliver serious water punch, as flow rate is really (and visibly) high. You may notice that I'm using the plexi bay cover too (on the case) - so now there is a proper "window" at the front and case is properly closed too. Other parts are X1900XTX + Edvard König EK-FCX1900 & X2 3800 + Swiftech Storm. As I don't like the cluttered tubing, I'm keeping the minimal connection distance. That SilenX blue fan on the left is cooling the A8N-SLI Premium chipset. As you know, this motherboard have passive chipset cooling (when you are using CPU fan). In my case, I had to improvise ... by attaching it to the Storm water block - but it's working quite well and fan is almost silent. That black fan just beneath the X1900XTX is the VREG cooling leftover from the 7800GTX and it's not used now. It's there just in case You may notice the advantage when you can use the barbs on the both side of the EK water block. It's improving the flow and there is much less clutter, because of the straight tube lines. Tubing in question is Tygon R-3603.


Here is the front case look with the normal, dimmed desk light:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/x1900_lights_on.jpg


On the top of the case I have DD FillPort. You will notice that I'm using the Fillport & PlexiRes ... just for fun. It's convenient way to top-up the coolant, without opening your case or even accessing the reservoir (as picture with funnel can show you). I used it with great success and you can even fill & bleed the system. Neat! :) Pics:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/x1900_fillport.jpg


Here is the outside of the case, where the tubing goes to the radiator:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/x1900_outside_1_s.jpg

Here is the order:

Swiftech bracket + fan vibration dampener + 35mm fan + vibration dampener + shroud + PA160 (cross flow) set-up. It's extending the case a bit, but it's not visible and I have plenty of space in the back of the case. Build and attachment is sturdy and reliable. No problems there. Fan is dead silent. Slow RPM & 35mm depth helps a lot. Sometimes, I wonder if Thermochill PA120.2 will offer any cooling improvements, or is it just marginal ?! What do you think ?


Finally, here is the climate control system:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/x1900_mcubed.jpg

Of course, mCubed T-balancer XL + miniNG control units. They are taking care that temperatures are optimal and at the same time dynamically controlling the fans and DDC pump speed, according to the temp probes (including the coolant probe). Generally, they are monitoring the coolant temperature, DDC pump rpm/flow rate and environment temperatures. MiniNG is capable to handle up to 20W per channel, and that is just enough for the new 18W DDC version. Also, sensor hub is capable to power off the system in case of the pump failure/low water flow or critical temperatures. Clever huh :cool:

Sorry for the heavy thread, but sometimes visual presentation is delivering the message in probably most direct way ;) Anyhow, if you have any comments about the system or if you think that some improvements are necessary, your feedback is much appreciated.


*** UPDATE 07/10/06 - new pics***

Lights off - final look with side panel, multiple angels:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_night2.jpg


As requested, with bright ambient light:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_lights2.jpg


Back/side of the PA160, side of the case and water temp probe on the Y-line, just before the PA160 inlet:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_side-back.jpg


Few comments about my side panel. Center (window) of the panel is detachable and replaceable with single aluminium panel (so that you can have all-aluminium side panel version). I hacked that detachable part a bit, so that I have a soundproof panel version and I can now easily replace the window (in case that it's not needed or if more silence is prefered) with this:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/lian_li-spdoor2.jpg

It's coated with AcoustiPack foam blocks (with the anechoic surface) :cool:


Daylight, camera flash on. Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_ddc-plus1.jpg

Notice the red impeller of the new 18W DDC-1 plus. Also, you may notice the AcoustiPack foam blocks just beneath the pump itself. They are absorbing the pump noise, additionally. Of course, there is just enough clearance so that pump can cool itself properly.


Daylight, case pictures (front):

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_daylight1.jpg

[Magnj]

Nicely done!

[NickS]

Wow very nice. That temp monitoring thing is very neat too. Well done :up:

[HaxR3]

Neat, i think the some suble & unique glow of the PC ICE beats teh Hydrx any day :D

Regarding the PA120.2 yes, the perfomance diff will probably be like 2-5*C

[GrimReaper]

what is that? :eek: looks like something stolen one of the borg ships :banana:

nicely done mate looks really cool :toast:

[Garrett]

You introduced the Alphacool plexi res... you only used a T-line and fillport before that?
And the flow is less because you use PC-Ice uv blue stuff instead of HydrX, is that what you're saying?
I like the uv stuff better, as long as it DOES NOT cloud your tubing... try throwing in too much Zerex/Waterwetter with Tygon tubing and you'll see what I mean ;)

[el rolio]

hey, lovey pics and post. haha you get points for a well laid out POST. anyway the 120.2 shouldnt be too much of a difference over hte 160.

i'd actualy like ot leanr more about how you use the t-balancer thing or whatever to control the fans and such relative to temps/load etc etc

[DVL73]

Wow very nice. That temp monitoring thing is very neat too. Well done :up:
Thx :)

T-balancer + miniNG is simply not comparable with anything else I tried (and waste my money on). In my book, finest climate control system for you PC and it is long term solution (purchase) as I doubt that I will ever need to upgrade to something else. With this, you may dynamically control your pump (20W per channel), your radiator fan, your case fan and your PSU fans and at the same time monitor your water temps and pump rpm/flow rate, It's modular and additional extensions are available and that includes the automatic shutdown in case of system failure (for example pump fault or low coolant flow rate). It's "hands free" operation, hardware controlled dynamically & automatically according to the water & environment temperatures of your PC. Very nice purchase, may I say essential, for any WC set-up. It does come with a price and maybe edging towards the exotic purchase, but I think it's worth it.

I'm using:

T-Balancer classic (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_xl.htm)
+
MiniNG (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_mini.htm)
+
Sensorbus (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_sh.htm)
+
Attenuators for the fans (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_ya.htm)

Also, new version of T-balancer: BugNG (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_bigng.htm) is now available for sale. Essentially, it's combination of MiniNG + T-balancer classic.

[stormshadow]

i wonder why i can't see pics... : (

[eXa]

i can, it looks pretty, hydrx didnt look that good.

[DVL73]

i wonder why i can't see pics... : (Are you using firewall of any type ? My HTTP file server is running on non-standard HTTP port "10973". Try to enable outbound access to this port (that is access from your PC to the Internet).

[NickS]

i wonder why i can't see pics... : (

Your internet fails :p:

[DVL73]

Few days ago, I upgraded to X1900XTX + EK (as shown in the pics). Here are the temps:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/x1900_temp.jpg

This graph represent the 3DMARK06 benchmark session, probably most stressful session the card may have. That pause (lower temps) you see in the middle of the graph is during the 3DMARK06 CPU stress tests (GPU is not used).

I guess it's just about OK especially because radiator fan is really not even pushed to the 25% - 30% and pump is at around 70%. Also, X1900XTX AS ceramique thermal paste have to settle down a bit ... so let's 7-10 days until it's working in full swing. At the end, I'm still 4*C - 5*C above the previous temps, because of the new coolant and reservoir placement (pump is working best when there is direct inlet, no res in between) - still have to investigate and confirm this. So, let's say that in warmish room ... it would be around 43*C - 45*C ideally if I didn't change my previous set-up. Only thing which could bring (possibly) another 3*C - 4*C off is Thermochill PA120.2 (2xfan) radiator. However, not really keen to upgrade because of the few degress less. I'm perfectly happy now, especially because the system is almost noise free.

In that sense, I may safely conclude that EK waterblock is cooling the X1900XTX on the almost same level as my old 7800GTX and that is very good - as X1900 is generating really plenty of heat.

I still didn't overclock the card. I will let the card burn-in and settle on the stock speed and then I will try to experiment with the clocks. This is my usual practice - as I don't like to torture any hardware from the flash start.

Here is the X2 3800 @ 2.6/1.5V CPU stress session:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/x1900/wc_cpu.jpg

I was running two instances of Prime95 (for both cores) for about 15min.

[eXa]

Your internet fails :p:

maybe he should update to newest version? :cool:

[DVL73]

You introduced the Alphacool plexi res... you only used a T-line and fillport before that?
I've sold my old DDC and upgraded to DDC-1plus + plexi top + plexi res + PrimoChill PC-ICE. Everything else in the same ... and yes ... before I used just T-line. I have to say that fill & bleed with Alphacool PlexiRes is a real joy ... personally tried and it's very convenient, even for novice users. Because the res is attached directly to the inlet of the pump, you just fill the res -> start the pump for a few seconds until it suck everything - > fill again and repeat such cycle 2-3 times and off you go. Your system is ready. If you can't access the res directly (if it's in the bay), just use one spare tubing piece and place one side in the res and other side outside of the case with the funnel attached.

There is generally thinking that such plexi res placement (as in my case) is hurting the flow rate (and wc loop performance) ... but honestly I have yet to see that in numbers and aesthetically it's my favourite set-up now. I'm not going back now ;)


And the flow is less because you use PC-Ice uv blue stuff instead of HydrX, is that what you're saying?Yes, and that is puzzling me a lot. Here is the current flow rate with PC-ICE:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_tban_flow1.jpg

Before, with HydrX (just different coolant) was 8.4 l/min - 8.6 l/min. It looks like PC-ICE is more "dense", if that is the right term. I can even notice in the plexires less turbulence then before. Actually, you may notice in the green plexires version (from the above pictures) that there is evidently more turbulance.


I like the uv stuff better, as long as it DOES NOT cloud your tubing... try throwing in too much Zerex/Waterwetter with Tygon tubing and you'll see what I mean ;)I had clouding with HydrX + Tygon also. I replaced all the tubing couple of days ago, with the brand new one, after approx 1 year of usage and before filling the system with PC-ICE.

[virtualrain]

In my backyard test using a couple of large buckets and a simple inlet/outlet tube, I found the following flow rates:

Stock Alphacool Top (no-res): 12.5 lpm
Stock Alphacool Top (with res): 11.3 lpm

Modded Alphacool Top (9.5mm inlet) (no-res): 13 lpm
Modded Alphacool Top (9.5mm inlet) (with res): 12.5 lpm

Hence, in terms of flow, it seems that modding the top (boring out the top inlet) largely makes up for the loss of flow from using the res. If you haven't tried the mod, you may want to consider it.

Here's a link to info on the mod (Note, I only modded to 9.5mm = 3/8"):

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111796

Here's some info that shows more scientific test results of the impact of the res. Note that the DDC Ultra with res is still more potent than a D5.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111796

[DVL73]

Here is the miniNG set-up screen, for controlling the DDC + radiator fan:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_tban_setup.jpg

DDC temperature readings are from the water (coolant) temp probe and RADIATOR from the CPU temp probe. As you may see, pump is starting @ 70% (8.4V) and not kicking in almost full speed until the coolant is really hot. One thing I noticed with the new 18W DDC-1plus as that I have to change the previous curve a bit, as pump is rather noisy (resonating) @ 60%. Another thing is that now I have the new rubber (antivibration) mounts for the pump (as you may see in the pictures above) ... so there is MUCH less noise even when it's running @ 100%. Proper pump mount is really a godsend. I don't find the new DDC much more noisy too. It's great pump in every aspect. As shown, radiator fan is also nicely silenced and dynamically speeding up over 30% only if the CPU/GPU temps are rising.

[NickS]

maybe he should update to newest version? :cool:

I agree. Internet v1.1 r0x0rs my b0x0rs.

[septim]

cleanly done.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

If you want a nice blue w/o using Primo-chill, pick up some Pentosin from Petra's. It won't be UV-reactive, but it looks oh so fine. :D

[Muunsyr]

How did you mount the T-Bal vertically? I have one and that is the orientation that I want to use (and similar placement). Very nice setup!

[Garrett]

I've sold my old DDC and upgraded to DDC-1plus + plexi top + plexi res + PrimoChill PC-ICE. Everything else in the same ... and yes ... before I used just T-line. I have to say that fill & bleed with Alphacool PlexiRes is a real joy ... personally tried and it's very convenient, even for novice users. Because the res is attached directly to the inlet of the pump, you just fill the res -> start the pump for a few seconds until it suck everything - > fill again and repeat such cycle 2-3 times and off you go. Your system is ready. If you can't access the res directly (if it's in the bay), just use one spare tubing piece and place one side in the res and other side outside of the case with the funnel attached.

There is generally thinking that such plexi res placement (as in my case) is hurting the flow rate (and wc loop performance) ... but honestly I have yet to see that in numbers and aesthetically it's my favourite set-up now. I'm not going back now ;)

Yes, and that is puzzling me a lot. Here is the current flow rate with PC-ICE:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_tban_flow1.jpg

Before, with HydrX (just different coolant) was 8.4 l/min - 8.6 l/min. It looks like PC-ICE is more "dense", if that is the right term. I can even notice in the plexires less turbulence then before. Actually, you may notice in the green plexires version (from the above pictures) that there is evidently more turbulance.

I had clouding with HydrX + Tygon also. I replaced all the tubing couple of days ago, with the brand new one, after approx 1 year of usage and before filling the system with PC-ICE.
I used HydrX too... same thing happened, now it's only deionized water for me... after all I only use plexi, delrin and copper so no corrosion worries.

I know what you mean by "dense", you mean the liquid is thicker, thus it has a higher viscosity, that may be true but hey... at least it looks better, just hope this doesn't cloud your Tygon either :p:

[AFK Matrix]

Thats a nice setup DVL73.

I too am going to be using a Tbalancer to control the 5 fans I am going to have in my system. I have enough Attenuators for 8 fans in all so I was thinking of putting the 3 pin cable that the DCC has on the tbalancer. Is that all I have to do to link the DCC to the Tbalancer, do I need special software?

Also where and how have you fitted the water probe? I do love the Tbalancer and yes its expensive but well worth it (mind you I did get all my kit second hand for £40 :woot: :banana:)

I am actually thinking of getting some UV reactive Acrylic in Blue to cut a new top to the Tbalancer to give it a bit of bling.

[DVL73]

I too am going to be using a Tbalancer to control the 5 fans I am going to have in my system. I have enough Attenuators for 8 fans in allThat's plenty of fans and attenuators :D Anyhow, yes, attenuators are great fun. I managed to cure even most problematic fans, and that includes the vibrations and whine. Another plus is that you can attach 2 fans to single attenuator and control them in parallel with t-balancer (ideally for case or PSU fans).


so I was thinking of putting the 3 pin cable that the DCC has on the tbalancer. Is that all I have to do to link the DCC to the Tbalancer, do I need special software?T-balancer classic is unable to control the DDC or any other pump. It's PWM device (which is OK for fans) but it's not compatible with the devices who require pure analog power and you may damage your pump too! You would need MiniNG extension (two 20W analog power channels with temp sensors). My radiator fan & pump is controlled by MiniNG (as shown in the pictures above). Actually, I dedicated MiniNG for the WC sector ;)

Other way around is that you use the mCubed T Balancer BigNG (you have link above). It's new t-balancer version, which has 4 channels of combined 20W analog/ 40W PWM power. Just make sure that you switch either MiniNG or BigNG and channel where the pump is connected to "analog mode".

Also, if you would like to have emergency shutdown, pump rpm/flow meter, water temp probe and additional analog sensors, you need SensorBus:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_sbus.jpg


Also where and how have you fitted the water probe? I will make some pics tonight, to show you visually. It's placed on t-line outside of the case, before the radiator inlet. You will need t-piece or y-piece with the t-balancer temp probe:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_tprobe.jpg



I do love the Tbalancer and yes its expensive but well worth it (mind you I did get all my kit second hand for £40 :woot: :banana:)As I see that you are in the UK, not sure if you aware that KustomPCs is stocking complete m-cubed range:

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/Automated_Fan_Controllers.html#a3726

Very nice people & company. Never had problems with them. They also have excellent fans range and generally exotic hardware, which is always a good thing ;)

PS ... new t-balancer (BigNG for example) is around £40 ... that second hand price you got is rather "expensive" :confused: if no extensions are included.


I am actually thinking of getting some UV reactive Acrylic in Blue to cut a new top to the Tbalancer to give it a bit of bling.Yeah, I had similar idea ... but UV blue top was out of stock :(

[AFK Matrix]

Thanks for the info DVL73, think i maybe contacting you if i have any problems with setting the tbalancer up :)

Basically for the £40 I spent I got the following:

1x external USB cable
1x internal USB cable
1x Control unit (UV orange plastic)
1x analogue sensor hub
4x thin foil temperature sensors
7x fan -> fan signal cables
Mounting material
CD With software
4x Attenuators (allows 2 fans to connect to each fan port, so max of 8 fans)
He also threw in a Water Probe.

I added all that lot up on the Kustom Pcs website and it came to £90 excl delivery :eek: thus I was more than happy to pay the £40 inc del :D

In your opinion is it really necessary to have the MiniNG, and I assume I could control 3 fans with it using the atenuators?

[DVL73]

Thanks for the info DVL73, think i maybe contacting you if i have any problems with setting the tbalancer up :) No probs.


Basically for the £40 I spent I got the following:

1x external USB cable
1x internal USB cable
1x Control unit (UV orange plastic)
1x analogue sensor hub
4x thin foil temperature sensors
7x fan -> fan signal cables
Mounting material
CD With software
4x Attenuators (allows 2 fans to connect to each fan port, so max of 8 fans)
He also threw in a Water Probe.

I added all that lot up on the Kustom Pcs website and it came to £90 excl delivery :eek: thus I was more than happy to pay the £40 inc del :D

OK then :) ... you have additionally fan/usb cables, 4x attenuators and water probe and possibly sensor hub. I'm saying possibly, because with my T-balancer XL (external) sensor hub was already included in the package (for £40). Not sure if mcubed changed that or not, but it's worth checking if someone decide to purchase. Also, thin foil sensors (analogue) you can attach only to SensorHub, as t-balancer itself is supporting only digital sensors (via sensor bus). Occasionally, I like thin foil sensors more (apart from the fact that they are maybe not that precise), because they are very thin (like tape) so you can easily install them on the most inaccessible places (even under the CPU heatsink). On the other hand, digital sensors are little more accurate than analogue and advantage is that they can be connected in serial rather than all having to go back to the hub with their own cable. They are little more expensive though... also I have the special analog sensors for the environment (air) temperature. They have small blue "bulb" which is probing the environmental air. They were not part of the t-balancer, but I sourced them additionally.


In your opinion is it really necessary to have the MiniNG, and I assume I could control 3 fans with it using the atenuators?
If you don't want to control the pump speed, you don't need it. As you already have sensor hub, you can just monitor the water flow rate and water temp.

Oh ... I forgot to mention to the thread visitors, that with t-balancer you can also control your case CCFLs and even Peltiers if analog wattage is in acceptable range. In that sense, bigNG + SensorHub or Classic + miniNG + SensorHub would control pretty much everything you will ever need.

[DVL73]

Hence, in terms of flow, it seems that modding the top (boring out the top inlet) largely makes up for the loss of flow from using the res. If you haven't tried the mod, you may want to consider it.Interesting ... thx :)


Here's some info that shows more scientific test results of the impact of the res.Oh yes, certainly. I'm aware of that thread. Actually, my saying in the posts was about the "numbers" in a way of real life temperature delta ;)


Note that the DDC Ultra with res is still more potent than a D5.No doubt.

[DVL73]

How did you mount the T-Bal vertically? I have one and that is the orientation that I want to use (and similar placement).As you may notice from the pics, I have HD drive bay on the bottom/right of the case, just opposite the t-bal and behind the front case fans (which I don't use anymore). So ... I just attached the t-bal to the opposite side of the bay, by using sticky mounting tape. That part of the case (as shown in the pics of t-balancer) is perfect spot for t-bal + miniNG + sensorhub, as it's isolated, not visible and you have plenty of space. Also, I can nicely hide all cables there.

Case in question is Lian-Li PC6089 - Blue. Even after so many years of using it, I'm still loving this case and don't see any particular reason to change it. :)

[BlaqMale]

any pics with the light on?

[DVL73]

best use a large syringe to fill rez while pump running.Yup, good alternative. Personally, I like tube with the funnel attached as I'm much more flexible around the case and sometimes if reservoir is placed inside it may be tricky to reach it properly with syringe.

... just came to my mind, or even better is to hack the plexires with one G1/4 thread on the top, so that I can put one DD perfectseal barb and attach the DD FillPort directly to the plexires and when it's not used, I can just use the additional G1/4 end-point plug (as on the pump plexitop). :cool:

[DVL73]

any pics with the light on?Actually, my ambient light is pretty much dimmed, but I will see what I can do ;)

[DVL73]

Hi there,

I have some new pics :) water temp probe, PA160 (back and side), lights off scenario with my case window (different angles) and lights on pictures (as requested). I will post them shortly in the first page, where main post is.

[DVL73]

Also where and how have you fitted the water probe?Here you go:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_tlcprobe.jpg

[DVL73]

OK ... new pics are up (final version) and they are probably the latest batch. Hopefully, new (complete) collection will do the final justice now :) They are also in the case gallery thread now. My personal favourite is the new "lights off" version ;)

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_night2.jpg

[Gibbs]

can you post some daylight pics of the Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res setup.

I am wondering if the res top on the pump is big enough for a cpu/gpu/chipset cooling and if i can add another res to the top of the pump/res as i think thats what you have done.

cheers

[DVL73]

can you post some daylight pics of the Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res setup.LOL ... ok as we have night, lights off and bright ambient light version, I guess that daylight/camera flash on is only left :) As I had the busy schedule (work) during the day, project pics were taken mostly during the night. Anyhow, will see if I can do something ;)


I am wondering if the res top on the pump is big enough for a cpu/gpu/chipset cooling and if i can add another res to the top of the pump/res as i think thats what you have done.
I'm not quite sure about the meaning of "big enough". Reservoir size doesn't affect the cooling capacity of your wc loop (and in some cases it's even restricting the flow additionally). You can wc all those components properly even with the simple t-line or fillport. In case that I understood you well, you absolutely don't need additional reservoir. DDC + plexi top + plexi res is just fine.

[p0tter]

wow, that probe rocks.

[Khaotic]

Very nice looking build.

[DVL73]

can you post some daylight pics of the Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res setup.
Here you go:

Daylight, camera flash on. Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_ddc-plus1.jpg

Notice the red impeller of the new 18W DDC-1 plus. Also, you may notice the AcoustiPack foam blocks just beneath the pump itself. They are absorbing the pump noise, additionally. Of course, there is just enough clearance so that pump can cool itself properly.


Daylight, case pictures (front):

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_daylight1.jpg

[AFK Matrix]

That looks very nice mate.

On a side note, with the t-balancer can you use the molex to 3pin converter cables as all my fans have molex connectors?

[DVL73]

On a side note, with the t-balancer can you use the molex to 3pin converter cables as all my fans have molex connectors?Yes, no problems with that (I had few Papst fans in such set-up, connected to t-bal). Of course, I guess that your molex fans don't include the RPM sensor pin. However, that's not a problem as t-bal can "measure" the RPM rate first time fans are powered on. Additionally, fan blockage and 0RPM (fan off) is supported also. Maybe this is probably another advantage of t-bal, as even in case that fan doesn't support the RPM, t-bal is able to give you approx rpm rate, power off fan and recognise the fan blockage (fault). As this is something not usually and easily supported by PWM, I guess that m-cubed is using additional circuitry for this.

For the thread readers who are not aware, PWM is the "Pulse Width Modulated" type of fan control. Purpose for this alternative approach is to keep the fan spinning with a rapid stream of "taps" - small hard pulses of full torque (i.e. 12V) that keep the fan's inertia up, and no power in between - instead of a low constant torque.

Major disadvantage of standard (linear) fan voltage regulators is that minimum torque (approx 60% in most cases) is needed for fan to spin. Compared to this, PWM doesn't have this limitation and you can push your fans at VERY low speed (some of my fans are running at 400RPM, as shown in MiniNG picture) and even shut them off or turn them on dynamically. Another plus is that almost no heat is produced by the control circuit, as you don't have the dissipation of additional voltage. Similar to analog voltage regulators, PWM does have few problems (but not on the major level, in my opinion):

- PWM switching is hard on the fan's windings (coils), so your fan's lifetime might be very slightly reduced (I guess it could change MTBF by a few days only, in most cases). However, it's questionable if this is negative point as decreased fan speed will likely improve the MTBF (it's affecting it much more) than increased winding stress.

- Not all fans are PWM friendly. They will buzz, groan, rumble... etc and in this case solution is that you use attenuators. In that sense, PWM controller and fan should be nicely matched and then you will be rewarded with the new level of SILENCE.

- PWM controllers are slightly more expensive

[DVL73]

Guys, I have one question. Does anyone of you know how can I remove (clean) the over-clock logo printed on the plexi bay cover ? No offence to over-clock really (although main pics will probably do the promotion justice, I guess ;) ) but ideally I would like to have a clear look and unfortunately I didn't know in advance that covers are branded :(

[AFK Matrix]

Have you tried something like nail polish remover etc?

EDIT: Also been told that WD 40 does a good job at removing stuff like that

Also OT did you get my PM mate?

If not I had some questions about the T balancer:

Just wanted to ask a quick question before I part with my cash.

I am right in thinking that my Classic Tbalancer can NOT be connected to my DDC ultra rpm sensor? For this I need the BIGNG right (I have a sensor hub)?

Also can you mount the BigNG in a 5.25 bay?

Sorry but I didn't know if the pm system worked as its me first time using it.

[DVL73]

Have you tried something like nail polish remover etc?Nope. Not much free time lately ... anyhow I will ask my missus if she can borrow one :D


EDIT: Also been told that WD 40 does a good job at removing stuff like thatI think that I have one left in my car, hopefully.


Also OT did you get my PM mate?:( I completely forgot about the PM service here. Sorry ... I will probably activate the e-mail notification, just in case.


Just wanted to ask a quick question before I part with my cash.Always a good thing to do!


I am right in thinking that my Classic Tbalancer can NOT be connected to my DDC ultra rpm sensor? For this I need the BIGNG right (I have a sensor hub)?
No. You need BigNG only if you want to volt control the pump. Otherwise, as you already have the sensor hub, just connect the DDC ultra rpm (blue) wire to the flow meter port of the sensor hub. Sensor hub will measure the flow rate and you may configure the monitoring metrics additionally via t-ban software.

If you want to volt control the pump then you need the MiniNG, connected to the additional sensor bus port of the t-balancer classic. By combining the t-balancer classic + MiniNG you don't need BigNG. Actually, it's better set-up in my opinion as you have 2 ports extra and you may dedicate MiniNG just for the water cooling. It's a bit complicated, I know, but hopefully my explanation does make sense to you. If not, I will try to be more precise ;)


Also can you mount the BigNG in a 5.25 bay?
I think that BigNG does come with the HDD bay mounting bracket, but I don't see much sense in that. By using the Velcro tapes you have really free style mount in the case and it's much more flexible for the cable management. On the other hand, if you want a little bit of bay window "bling" by using other t-balancer acrylic top (and illuminated too) or simply that's your preferable spot, than drive bay mount could make sense. edit: Why are you asking about the BigNG ? (as you already have classic + sensor hub)

[AFK Matrix]

Ah sorry i did mean the MiniNG. Basically from what you have said I don't actually need the MiniNG anyway. All I want to do is make it so that if the pump doesn't switch on then the rest of my system will automatically shut down so none of my components get fried. So all i need to do is attach the blue wire from the DDC to my sensor hub and get the software setup to shut down my system right?

Thanks for all the help, the instructions for the tbalancer are not the best in the world lol.

[DVL73]

Ah sorry i did mean the MiniNG.Now you are talkin'


All I want to do is make it so that if the pump doesn't switch on then the rest of my system will automatically shut down so none of my components get fried. So all i need to do is attach the blue wire from the DDC to my sensor hub and get the software setup to shut down my system right?
You got it right, gringo :) and for this set-up you don't need MiniNG. Here is the screen grab from my system (software config):

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_ddc_em.jpg

As you may notice, if the coolant flow rate is less then 4l/min warning is issued (audible too) and if it's below 2l/min emergency switch of is kicking in. On the last window, you may see the available types of the monitoring metrics. Forgot to mention, you can attach two flow meters to the sensor hub, in case of multiple pumps or multiple measurements in the loop.

[DVL73]

I have one interesting observation. When running my DDC at full speed (that's around 7.5 l/min coolant flow rate) water loop is generally silent but occasionally I can hear the water "noise". It's hard to explain,but it's a bit like "waterish gurgle" or sometimes "little water flush" or even sometimes sound of the rushed water through something that's not that wide (struggling to get through). Maybe gurgle is the best description ... actually, I will see if I can record the noise for you ;) as it's really difficult for me to explain. Sometimes, I don't hear that noise for a whole day and sometimes several times per day. It's not affecting anything but I'm puzzled about the cause of this. Never had that before. Is it air in the loop/rad, will it go away and why is not occuring when coolant flow rate is lower (pump is downvolted). :confused:

Any hints ?

[jaguarking11]

Nice setup you got there, looks good. And why not just cut a new piece of plex to cover the case so you have a clean look to it?

What flow meter are you using to measure the flow rate? Or are you just translating pump rpm to L/min?

[DVL73]

Pls ignore this post ....

[DVL73]

Nice setup you got there, looks good. And why not just cut a new piece of plex to cover the case so you have a clean look to it?If you are referring to the one "uniform" piece of plex cover for the front bays, I had a thought about that. I just need free time and someone who can source, cut and build the plex according to my needs & measurements ;)


What flow meter are you using to measure the flow rate? Or are you just translating pump rpm to L/min?
My first DDC didn't have the rpm sensor/cable. I tried the T-Flow flow meter (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_wasser.htm) (sadly with 3.3mm jet stream) attached directly to the t-bal sensor hub, but that affected the performance badly and it was noisy too. When DDC with rpm sensor was available, it was huge relief for me as I didn't have to hurt the flows and t-bal sensor hub is converting the metrics from the DDC sensor itself. Of course, you can adjust the impulse rate and the measuring range.

I guess that if some users want to simply, dynamically (and without software control) volt control the DDC pump and radiator fan and at the same time just have pump RPM signal connected to the motherboard (for the purpose of emergency shutdown), they can use just MiniNG (http://www.t-balancer.com/download/miniNG.pdf) device on it's own: (http://www.t-balancer.com/download/miniNG_laing.pdf)

edit: Something I forgot to mention. MiniNG is supporting the "kick start" feature for the pump. In other words, it should give more oomph to the pump during the initial start-up sequence. In that respect, it should possibly cure the Laing DDC startup problems for some people.

[DVL73]

@ALL

Thank you for your kind words & compliments :) It was really rude of me to forget to include one simple THANKS.

[Rasco]

No need for thanks :) I really like your rig. You have inspired me with alot of ideas for my build. I own a BigNG but i have not started installing it yet. After have read through the (quite lousy) manual i think it'll take a while for me to configure it properly. Maybe you good give me a helping hand DVL73?

[Xion X2]

I second what Rasco said. You've inspired me as well. I tend to agree with you that there can be a good mix of aesthetics and performance, and you've mixed the two pretty effectively. :)

I'm working on my first WC'ng rig right now and might keep some of your ideas in mind. I especially like the plexiglass you have up front. So you had someone custom-make that for you? Because I'm interested in doing something similar myself and would like to know how. I have no experience with that kind of thing but would be willing to learn.

[Rasco]

Xion X2: Are you talking about the glass door or the plexi bay cover? The plexi bay cover can be purchased at over-clock.co.uk. Check out this link (http://store.over-clock.com/MountainMods.html) and scroll down to the bottom and you'll find that foxy bay cover :) I ordered one today.

[Xion X2]

Oh okay, so the plexi-cover just slides right into the drive bay. I thought it was just a flat piece of glass, but that makes a lot more sense.

I like it, but I think I'd like one that's clear instead of having the writing on it. I'll look around for one.

[AFK Matrix]

Hi again,

Just thought I would say that I found some great Blue UV acylic for making a new case for my Tbalancer and the analoge sensor. If your interested DVL73 I can give you a short account of what I did and I also have some pictures if you want a look.

[DVL73]

Hi there, long time no see :) Here is the interesting one for you. Take a look at this pic:

http://62.204.32.7:10973/X1900/wc_coolant_drop_v2.jpg

Is such coolant level drop normal ? System is running 24x7 for the last 2.5 months - from the date this thread was born ;)

I can easily top up the coolant (currently there is no need), as I have the fillport installed on top of the case (as shown on the pictures) ... but I just wanted to check if maybe this is sign of something else. I know that water can evaporate over time (even through tubing) and level can drop even after few weeks when system is settled and all air is out. Coolant is crystal clear (no bubbles) and there is just slight water "noise" from time to time when pump is at the full swing (as it's automatically controlled/downvolted according to the system load).

Oh, still no slightest sign of Tygon (R3603) clouding ... and that is very nice. Perfect condition, even after almost 3 months of 24x7 operation.

[Marci]

S'just air settling out over time...

[Bun-Bun]

DOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!

K... im sorry I dont really have anything to add but...

You are my hero!!!

That looks soo awesome and is now my inspiration to finish my WC rig.

My goal all along was to go with that blue glowing look but now I look at yours I think the 2 x blue cold cathodes might be too much...

Kudos to your awesome looking rig (the look of the res is totally worth the performance hit :D)

Man now i'm rethinking mine and wanting to put a res in the front instead of the 120mm fan...

PS: The (nice pictures included!) is what brought me to this thread.

[despat]

Hi,
I was reading your post of your T-Ban setup. Very impressive. I've got a little questoin. I purchased the

T-Balancer BigNG
and the
Water cooling kit (from m-cubed)

Do I still need the Analog Sensorbus if I want to shutdown incase of pump problems?

Also, if I'm monitoriing two DCC fans should I buy another miniNG (as I've heard the BigNG alone won't handle the Watts on two pumps (esp if I've got 8 fans)?



Thx :)

T-balancer + miniNG is simply not comparable with anything else I tried (and waste my money on). In my book, finest climate control system for you PC and it is long term solution (purchase) as I doubt that I will ever need to upgrade to something else. With this, you may dynamically control your pump (20W per channel), your radiator fan, your case fan and your PSU fans and at the same time monitor your water temps and pump rpm/flow rate, It's modular and additional extensions are available and that includes the automatic shutdown in case of system failure (for example pump fault or low coolant flow rate). It's "hands free" operation, hardware controlled dynamically & automatically according to the water & environment temperatures of your PC. Very nice purchase, may I say essential, for any WC set-up. It does come with a price and maybe edging towards the exotic purchase, but I think it's worth it.

I'm using:

T-Balancer classic (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_xl.htm)
+
MiniNG (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_mini.htm)
+
Sensorbus (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_sh.htm)
+
Attenuators for the fans (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_ya.htm)

Also, new version of T-balancer: BugNG (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_bigng.htm) is now available for sale. Essentially, it's combination of MiniNG + T-balancer classic.