My Review: Head-On Apply Directly to the forehead

[ZX7891]

Ok so ive seen those stupidly annoying commercials on TV advertising HEADON apply directly to the forehead. I didnt know what it was though so while i was bumming aroudn at walgreens i stumbled upon it and found out it was headache relief. So i bought one, it was like 2 bucks or something, for a day when i have a headache. Today i have a headache. So i apply head-on to my forehead and after about 15 minutes, NOW, my head is no longer pounding , or at least i cant tell, because there is a distinct BURING SENSATION on my forehead. Its soo annoying. Im gonna give head-on a 1/10 on my scale. Its awful my head is burnign, dont use it.

Discuss

[ozzimark]

perhaps the burning distracts you from the headache, making you forget about it?

[Haltech]

:cool: Well, you can always just get kicked in the balls, save the $2 and go lay down.

[Shpoon]

Don't tell Vulger that, it's his avatar :p

[`odin]

:cool: Well, you can always just get kicked in the balls, save the $2 and go lay down.
lol ;)

[VulgarHandle]

lol, changed my avatar yesterday ;)

[Just Some Dude]

I h8 those damn commercials. I turned my tv on this week and it came on like 5x in 2 hours. No wonder I don't watch tv anymore.

[perkam]

Most likely all it does is numb the front of the forehead where the headaches are most felt. So in a sense the headache is still there, you just can't feel it.

Stick with Advil/Tylenol for this.

Perkam

[masterofpuppets]

Most likely all it does is numb the front of the forehead where the headaches are most felt. So in a sense the headache is still there, you just can't feel it.

Stick with Advil/Tylenol for this.

Perkam
Sorry for the following rant, but I'm in a bit of a scientific mood right now. Tylenol (aka Acetaminophen) is pretty nasty, toxic stuff. One of it's metabolites is N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine, which is broken down by glutathione, however Acetaminophen itself is also broken by the same enzyme, which can cause a bit of a cascade effect. The APAP saturates the glutathione, which releases the NAPB into the liver, leaving little to no glutathione left to deactivate the NAPB, leaving it free to attack the cells of the liver. Nasty stuff. Advil (aka Ibuprofen) is alot safer to the liver, however, being an acid, it's not particularily friendly to the GI tract or the kidneys, but that said it's alot better for you than APAP. I'm assuming this head-on stuff contains Ibuprofen, Diclofenac or another NSAID. Most NSAID's are acidic, hence applying them to the skin is bound to cause a little burning or irritation. My $0.02.

[Carlz0r]

Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead!

Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead!

Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead!

[Threeme2189]

good god im so glad we don't get that comercial here...

[Zardokk]

Lol. That commercial is just awful. It genuinely makes me cringe every time it comes on. Last time I saw it, I went into a deep depression for weeks and tried to kill myself. Yes, it really is that bad.

[Reznik Akime]

Sorry for the following rant, but I'm in a bit of a scientific mood right now. Tylenol (aka Acetaminophen) is pretty nasty, toxic stuff. One of it's metabolites is N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine, which is broken down by glutathione, however Acetaminophen itself is also broken by the same enzyme, which can cause a bit of a cascade effect. The APAP saturates the glutathione, which releases the NAPB into the liver, leaving little to no glutathione left to deactivate the NAPB, leaving it free to attack the cells of the liver. Nasty stuff. Advil (aka Ibuprofen) is alot safer to the liver, however, being an acid, it's not particularily friendly to the GI tract or the kidneys, but that said it's alot better for you than APAP. I'm assuming this head-on stuff contains Ibuprofen, Diclofenac or another NSAID. Most NSAID's are acidic, hence applying them to the skin is bound to cause a little burning or irritation. My $0.02.


Am I the only other one who understood this? Nobody even bothers to comment on the great writeup!

It quenched my taste for knowledge it did.

And about that Head-On stuff, It looked to gimmicky for me. Sure enough, its just snake oil.

[wrc06]

Sorry for the following rant, but I'm in a bit of a scientific mood right now. Tylenol (aka Acetaminophen) is pretty nasty, toxic stuff. One of it's metabolites is N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine, which is broken down by glutathione, however Acetaminophen itself is also broken by the same enzyme, which can cause a bit of a cascade effect. The APAP saturates the glutathione, which releases the NAPB into the liver, leaving little to no glutathione left to deactivate the NAPB, leaving it free to attack the cells of the liver. Nasty stuff. Advil (aka Ibuprofen) is alot safer to the liver, however, being an acid, it's not particularily friendly to the GI tract or the kidneys, but that said it's alot better for you than APAP. I'm assuming this head-on stuff contains Ibuprofen, Diclofenac or another NSAID. Most NSAID's are acidic, hence applying them to the skin is bound to cause a little burning or irritation. My $0.02.

As long as not over 4g of acetaminophen is consumed daily for long periods. Then again, that's a lot of pain, and anyone having that much pain usually (not always) seeks medical help.

It's not the pH acidity from nsaids that irritates the GI, but the inhibition of mucus production and prostagladin E that breaks down the mucosal and bicarb protective barrier. Lemons and citruses have a lot lower acidity than nsaids and are consumed daily, yet do not usually irritate the GI tract after consumption by a healthy person.

Headon as a topical nsaid? Too lazy now to search, but haven't run across too many otc topical nsaids. Doesn't sound like an effective way to limit vasospasms.

[FghtinIrshNvrDi]

Headaches in Missouri are most often caused by simple dehydration. ;)

Ryan

[NickS]

I h8 those damn commercials. I turned my tv on this week and it came on like 5x in 2 hours. No wonder I don't watch tv anymore.

LOL, I hate the way they repeat "Head On, apply directly to the forehead" three times over.

[Ominous Gamer]

I don't own cable, and it appears I don't watch enough TV. I have never heard of this product, or ever seen a commercial for it.....

:confused:

[hollywood]

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

:D

[masterofpuppets]

As long as not over 4g of acetaminophen is consumed daily for long periods. Then again, that's a lot of pain, and anyone having that much pain usually (not always) seeks medical help.

It's not the pH acidity from nsaids that irritates the GI, but the inhibition of mucus production and prostagladin E that breaks down the mucosal and bicarb protective barrier. Lemons and citruses have a lot lower acidity than nsaids and are consumed daily, yet do not usually irritate the GI tract after consumption by a healthy person.

Headon as a topical nsaid? Too lazy now to search, but haven't run across too many otc topical nsaids. Doesn't sound like an effective way to limit vasospasms.
I'm not sure if Head-On is an NSAID, but I've used a few topical NSAID's in the past and they've caused slightly irritation. But I've definately read somewhere that consuming the recommended amount of APAP a day over 1-2 weeks causes abnormal liver function in blood work. http://www.newstarget.com/019555.html The inhibited mucus production makes sense, since NSAID's are contraindicted for people with asthma.

FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK, IF YOU MESS IT UP AND END UP WITH LIVER DAMAGE, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.
However, I'd still take an opioid over an NSAID or APAP in any situation. I usually take small amounts (30-60mg) of Codeine Phosphate for various pains. It's pretty easy to get ahold of, and tiny amounts (8mg) are availible over the counter, at least in Europe. They are usually coupled with an NSAID (most commonly Ibuprofen), Aspirin, or APAP. All 3 secondary substances are easily seperated from the Codeine with a cold water extraction. Grind the pills up into a fine powder, add the powder to a small amount (half a shot or so) of warm water (from the hot tap, not boiling water as this breaks down the Codeine Phosphate) to help the powder dissolve. Stir every now and then until all of it has dissolved. Then stick this in the refrigerator and cool (5C recommended if your source contains APAP or Ibuprofen). Once cooled appropriately, you should have a chalky liquid on the top, and a thick white sludge at the bottom. The sludge is your secondary substance. Discard of the sludge by filtering the liquid through a t-shirt, coffee filter, or even better, a micron filter, until there is little to no sludge left. Hold your nose, get something sweet to chase it with, and down the remaining liquid. Codeine Phosphate is very bitter, so it is neccessary to chase it with something sweet to overpower the aftertaste.

This process works because APAP and Ibuprofen are NOT soluble at lower temperatures, however Codeine Phosphate is fully soluble at lower temperatures. It's a very simple process. It may seem like alot of effort, but it's not too difficult to make many batches of the substance to use when needed. It stores fine in the refrigerator and is quite stable at the temperatures the refrigerator maintains. Side effects of Codeine Phosphate may include constipation, vasodilation, bradycardia, increased cranial pressure (as an effect of the vasodilation I presume), drowsiness (at higher doses), nausea, respiratory depression and lowered blood pressure. Codeine is converted to Morphine in the liver by CYP3A4, and is catalysed by CYP2D6, so if you are taking an inhibitor to any of these enzymes, the effects of the substance will be greatly reduced. Inhibitors include any of the SSRI-class anti-depressants (Fluoxetine, Paroxetine, Citalopram, Escitalopram, and to a much lesser extent, Sertraline). The analgesia is pretty powerful for an over-the-counter substance, and can't be matched by an NSAID, let alone APAP. Just offering my "alternative" to the traditional OTC analgesics :)

If the above breaks any rules, please edit it out mods.

EDIT: And for your enjoyment.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-hcF8jD5qM :D

[hollywood]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2zqnASjunx8&search=Head-On%20parody

[wrc06]

I'm not sure if Head-On is an NSAID, but I've used a few topical NSAID's in the past and they've caused slightly irritation. But I've definately read somewhere that consuming the recommended amount of APAP a day over 1-2 weeks causes abnormal liver function in blood work. http://www.newstarget.com/019555.html The inhibited mucus production makes sense, since NSAID's are contraindicted for people with asthma.

FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK, IF YOU MESS IT UP AND END UP WITH LIVER DAMAGE, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.
However, I'd still take an opioid over an NSAID or APAP in any situation. I usually take small amounts (30-60mg) of Codeine Phosphate for various pains. It's pretty easy to get ahold of, and tiny amounts (8mg) are availible over the counter, at least in Europe. They are usually coupled with an NSAID (most commonly Ibuprofen), Aspirin, or APAP. All 3 secondary substances are easily seperated from the Codeine with a cold water extraction. Grind the pills up into a fine powder, add the powder to a small amount (half a shot or so) of warm water (from the hot tap, not boiling water as this breaks down the Codeine Phosphate) to help the powder dissolve. Stir every now and then until all of it has dissolved. Then stick this in the refrigerator and cool (5C recommended if your source contains APAP or Ibuprofen). Once cooled appropriately, you should have a chalky liquid on the top, and a thick white sludge at the bottom. The sludge is your secondary substance. Discard of the sludge by filtering the liquid through a t-shirt, coffee filter, or even better, a micron filter, until there is little to no sludge left. Hold your nose, get something sweet to chase it with, and down the remaining liquid. Codeine Phosphate is very bitter, so it is neccessary to chase it with something sweet to overpower the aftertaste.

This process works because APAP and Ibuprofen are NOT soluble at lower temperatures, however Codeine Phosphate is fully soluble at lower temperatures. It's a very simple process. It may seem like alot of effort, but it's not too difficult to make many batches of the substance to use when needed. It stores fine in the refrigerator and is quite stable at the temperatures the refrigerator maintains. Side effects of Codeine Phosphate may include constipation, vasodilation, bradycardia, increased cranial pressure (as an effect of the vasodilation I presume), drowsiness (at higher doses), nausea, respiratory depression and lowered blood pressure. Codeine is converted to Morphine in the liver by CYP3A4, and is catalysed by CYP2D6, so if you are taking an inhibitor to any of these enzymes, the effects of the substance will be greatly reduced. Inhibitors include any of the SSRI-class anti-depressants (Fluoxetine, Paroxetine, Citalopram, Escitalopram, and to a much lesser extent, Sertraline). The analgesia is pretty powerful for an over-the-counter substance, and can't be matched by an NSAID, let alone APAP. Just offering my "alternative" to the traditional OTC analgesics :)

If the above breaks any rules, please edit it out mods.

EDIT: And for your enjoyment.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-hcF8jD5qM :D

Nsaids contraindicated with asthma? How so? How would nsaid compromise bronchospasms? Again the transdermal admin, not a great route of drug delivery.

Codeine for a headache is too advanced. What about triptans? Why not try those first before proceeding to opioids? Prescribing opioids too often and unnecessarily is just asking for trouble.

[masterofpuppets]

Nsaids contraindicated with asthma? How so? How would nsaid compromise bronchospasms? Again the transdermal admin, not a great route of drug delivery.

Codeine for a headache is too advanced. What about triptans? Why not try those first before proceeding to opioids? Prescribing opioids too often and unnecessarily is just asking for trouble.
It clearly says on my box of Nurofen (Ibuprofen), that it is contraindicted in people with asthma.. I take Codeine for headaches and it works pretty damn well.

[[XC] MarioMaster]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2zqnASjunx8&search=Head-On%20parody

i never even saw the commercial but thought that was funny

[wrc06]

It clearly says on my box of Nurofen (Ibuprofen), that it is contraindicted in people with asthma.. I take Codeine for headaches and it works pretty damn well.

...if they have had previous experiences of asthma exasperation. Not a contraindication on any schedule that I'm aware.

Sure, codeine will work for pain (generally, this is it's use). Never said it wouldn't. However, too advanced for headaches. Trial of triptans perhaps. Then schedule esr, rf, ana, or head ct if resistant to rule out brain lesions, icp, etc. Progress to other pain management if s/sx continue.

[Vapor]

All nsaids can worsen the degree of asthma (really, on such a small scale though....you'd be hard pressed to ....opiods can assist asthma treatment.

Codeine is absolutely not found OTC in the USA...we're left with Sodium Naproxen (Aleve....another nsaid), Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen.

Because nsaids and APAP do work so different (both effect and side-effect) they can be taken together for really bad pain (but again, if it's that bad that you need to keep up a daily 2.4G Ibuprofen and 4G Acetaminophen regimen, see a doctor). Staying at or below the recommended dosage with acetaminophen is safe and can be sustained with healthy liver function for >12 years. Ibuprofen really doesn't do DAMAGE until you sustain a little more than double the recommended dose. If not taken with food (you'll get fat trying to keep up with your Ibuprofen intake), it may cause irritation or discomfort.

Regarding HeadOn, it's main active ingredient is potassium dichromate, which is used in film developing and should, under no condtion, come in contact with the skin. That's the burn.

EDIT: masterofpuppets, I really don't know if I can keep that opiod separation guide up.....thinking about it

[wrc06]

All nsaids can worsen the degree of asthma (really, on such a small scale though....you'd be hard pressed to ....opiods can assist asthma treatment.

Codeine is absolutely not found OTC in the USA...we're left with Sodium Naproxen (Aleve....another nsaid), Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen.

Because nsaids and APAP do work so different (both effect and side-effect) they can be taken together for really bad pain (but again, if it's that bad that you need to keep up a daily 2.4G Ibuprofen and 4G Acetaminophen regimen, see a doctor). Staying at or below the recommended dosage with acetaminophen is safe and can be sustained with healthy liver function for >12 years. Ibuprofen really doesn't do DAMAGE until you sustain a little more than double the recommended dose. If not taken with food (you'll get fat trying to keep up with your Ibuprofen intake), it may cause irritation or discomfort.

Regarding HeadOn, it's main active ingredient is potassium dichromate, which is used in film developing and should, under no condtion, come in contact with the skin. That's the burn.

EDIT: masterofpuppets, I really don't know if I can keep that opiod separation guide up.....thinking about it

Right with nsaids and asthma, as asthmatics tend to be atopic. Yet, not a contraindication. Opioids are not generally used for astha, though. Beta2 agonists, mast cell stabilizers, steroids, and other respiratory treatments are better indicated.

Also correct with codeine b/c it may be classified in schedule II. Heck, the US has trouble with pseudoephedrine.

BTW, I do apologize if I've offended anyone. Just wanted to apply pragmatics to the technical discussion of meds.

[masterofpuppets]

Ìbuprofen overdoses are actually quite harmless long-term. People have survived monstrous (20g+) doses and survived with NO long-term problems (other than stomach ulcers, but they can be treated). APAP on the other hand, overdoses WILL cause at least minor liver damage, and in large overdoses, necrosis of the liver. Not something you should mess around with.

[wrc06]

Ìbuprofen overdoses are actually quite harmless long-term. People have survived monstrous (20g+) doses and survived with NO long-term problems (other than stomach ulcers, but they can be treated). APAP on the other hand, overdoses WILL cause at least minor liver damage, and in large overdoses, necrosis of the liver. Not something you should mess around with.

Well, yes, nothing should be overdone. This is why there are recommendations. There are plenty of otc meds that would cause liver damage, but acetaminophen isn't as terrible to require prescription and patient monitoring.

[masterofpuppets]

Well, yes, nothing should be overdone. This is why there are recommendations. There are plenty of otc meds that would cause liver damage, but acetaminophen isn't as terrible to require prescription and patient monitoring.
I still consider it poison, and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I find NSAID's much more effective, and opioids even more effective. 4 grams of APAP a day, in chronic use, could easily cause liver damage. As far as I know, most brands don't even warn that chronic use could be detrimental to the liver.

[wrc06]

I still consider it poison, and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I find NSAID's much more effective, and opioids even more effective. 4 grams of APAP a day, in chronic use, could easily cause liver damage. As far as I know, most brands don't even warn that chronic use could be detrimental to the liver.

To each their own, as everyone here in the US has the right to decide their treatment options.

MOST DRUGS ARE POISONS B/C THEY ARE NOT NATURALLY PRODUCED. What is warfarin? Look that up. Very poisonous, but keeps a lot of ppl alive from throwing clots.

Like I mentioned in previous post, 4g tylenol is a LOT of pain (12 x 325mg ?!!!). Most (not all) ppl would seek medical help with concerns of bleeding, infection, inflammation, cancer, etc.....DEATH. SO, not very common to have someone take 4g tylenol daily for long periods. That is when I say you have to think of differentials --> work 'em up --> start with most common --> hx & phys, cbc with diff, bmp/cmp, lft, esr, rf, ana, xray/ct...

[masterofpuppets]

To each their own, as everyone here in the US has the right to decide their treatment options.

Like I mentioned in previous post, 4g tylenol is a LOT of pain (12 x 325mg ?!!!).
Isn't the standard dose for you guys 1gram? Over here each pill usually contains 500mg of APAP, and the standard dose is 2 pills.

[wrc06]

Isn't the standard dose for you guys 1gram? Over here each pill usually contains 500mg of APAP, and the standard dose is 2 pills.

Common strengths are 325 - 500mg.

[Flak Monkey]

MOST DRUGS ARE POISONS B/C THEY ARE NOT NATURALLY PRODUCED. That is the biggest BS ever. If natural things are so great then I'll just go eat those mushrooms that are growing in my backyard with a side of nightshade.

[STEvil]

Drugs just happen to be easily over-used and easy to screw up.

[masterofpuppets]

That is the biggest BS ever. If natural things are so great then I'll just go eat those mushrooms that are growing in my backyard with a side of nightshade.
Agreed. Synthetics are JUST as safe (if not more since they know exactly what they are working with, unlike natural drugs which can contain unpredictable dosages and unwanted chemicals). For example, Alpha-Amanitin, one of the most deadly toxins in the world, and guess what? It's produced naturally and found in many species of Amanita fungi. :rolleyes:

[Carlz0r]

Agreed. Synthetics are JUST as safe (if not more since they know exactly what they are working with, unlike natural drugs which can contain unpredictable dosages and unwanted chemicals). For example, Alpha-Amanitin, one of the most deadly toxins in the world, and guess what? It's produced naturally and found in many species of Amanita fungi. :rolleyes:
It makes your brain swell. Some people sell dried amanita muscaria (sp?) mushrooms up here and pass them off to people as magic mushrooms, even though their effect is caused by the swelling of your brain, and not by a psilocybe.

[wrc06]

That is the biggest BS ever. If natural things are so great then I'll just go eat those mushrooms that are growing in my backyard with a side of nightshade.

Not natural as in found in nature. :) Natural in terms of physiology means endogenous, not antigens of a sort nor non-self. Natural mushrooms are still not natural to the body, not naturally produced. Yeah?

[wrc06]

Agreed. Synthetics are JUST as safe (if not more since they know exactly what they are working with, unlike natural drugs which can contain unpredictable dosages and unwanted chemicals). For example, Alpha-Amanitin, one of the most deadly toxins in the world, and guess what? It's produced naturally and found in many species of Amanita fungi. :rolleyes:

I'm disappointed in you! You talk pharmacokinetics with cyp3a, glutathione, absorption, clearance, and yet do not understand that drugs are not natural to the body. Ever heard of side effects? It's what drugs do.

It's easy as studying the terms themselves - digoxin (digitoxin), botox (botulinum toxin), plant alkaloids, etc...

[drtitanium0]

LOL I hate that commercial it just repeats the same thing over and over

[VulgarHandle]

my wife says they use HeadOn or w/e at her work, she says it works great....

[mr_knowitall15]

all i know about this product is that ill never even try it because the commercials piss me off so much. All i can hope for is that their marketing guy dies...slowly. cancer maybe

[Vapor]

my wife says they use HeadOn or w/e at her work, she says it works great....Tell her the main active ingredient....potassium dichromate and it's uses and hazards.

[Repoman]

all i know about this product is that ill never even try it because the commercials piss me off so much. All i can hope for is that their marketing guy dies...slowly. cancer maybe

seriously, I don't know why people make some of these commercials.. just makes people NOT want to buy the product

[m0da]

wow. y'all are... smart/experienced.
anyway, between advil and tylenol, advil is the better/safer drug to take? ok cool.
is there anything else (big namebrand) that you can take otc thats better/safer?

[mr_knowitall15]

seriously, I don't know why people make some of these commercials.. just makes people NOT want to buy the product
well i suppose the theory is that you remember it. And thats true. Too bad its remembered in a negative way. One of the most successful ad campaigns i can remember was one they used to play on the radio for a local (i think its not a national chain) jewelry stor called Shane Company. Now at first he says his little sales pitch about the super quality of the diamonds and pearls that he personally hand selects from china or wherever, and then they gave directions, that became a catch phrase that people still remember today. Something to the effect of "Come visit the Shane Co., Just off Arapahoe rd. on Imporia st., one half mile East of I-25." IMO that is a much more effective way to market than annoying the hell out of your target audience. Even funny commercials like Reeboks Terry Tate Office Linebacker, or a lot of Budweisers commercials (especially during the super bowl) work very very well.
*fun fact, in the 4th season of south park, the episode where they were trying to make money by stealing kids tooth fairy money, There was the part where on the news was a little boy that needed a transplant, and they had a "feeling" that the tooth fairy was gonna give hime the $500 they needed for his operation for his recently lost tooth. (charity was gonna give it to him)The news man said "and just in case youre wondering where little billy lives" (so you can help out or something like that)" we're just off Arapahoe road on imporia st, half mile east of I-25. Boy that show has little things that are so much better if youre from colo.

[[cTx]Philosophy]

LOL ok doc wut he said...
I agree that the commercial is the worst thing ever broadcast across the horrible cable networks in cable, When I saw it I never even knew what it was about, there isnt really a description in the part caught, but you guys cleared it up right now, after reading all this and absorbing it into my mind, im starting to get a headache, usually advil and a cold shower fix it for me though.. Freezes brain for short time

[RangerXLT8]

EDIT
Original post: Not a chance in hell I'd use head-on. Aleve works fine for headaches.

[Muunsyr]

AAAaarrrrggghhhh! Great posts but I have only just got up, haven't had any coffee, and don't know much chemistry past year 12 (last year school here is aus). $0.02? It feels like a bag of 2c pieces to the head :) . Enough to give someone a headache...

[masterofpuppets]

wow. y'all are... smart/experienced.
anyway, between advil and tylenol, advil is the better/safer drug to take? ok cool.
is there anything else (big namebrand) that you can take otc thats better/safer?
To be fully honest, APAP is safer if you only need to use it in small amounts every now and again, but if you have a liver condition (hepatitis, cirrhosis, etc), stay clear of it and stick with NSAID's or Opioids. And for the love of god, stay AWAY from Head-On unless you want skin cancer.

[masterofpuppets]

I'm disappointed in you! You talk pharmacokinetics with cyp3a, glutathione, absorption, clearance, and yet do not understand that drugs are not natural to the body. Ever heard of side effects? It's what drugs do.

It's easy as studying the terms themselves - digoxin (digitoxin), botox (botulinum toxin), plant alkaloids, etc...
Drugs can be harmful or harmless. Most drugs when used correctly have no toxicity. However APAP, like many other substances, is potentially toxic, particularily to those with a weakened liver. The fact that they are not natural to the body makes no difference. Oxygen is not endogenous, yet it's perfectly harmless and we need it to live. Unless of course by not natural to the body, you mean, unwanted by the body. A better example would be alcohol. It's by no means natural to the body (other than small amounts formed in the gut which certain bacteria use to respirate), it has many health problems related to it, however most of these problems are caused by consuming unsafe amounts of alcohol. The liver produces enough Ethanol Dehydrogenase to cope with small to moderate amounts of alcohol, however excess levels of alcohol I believe are metabolized into fat which builds up in the liver, causing fibrosis, cirrhosis, and such. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong there. Let alone the neurological damage large amounts of alcohol can cause. HOWEVER in smaller amounts it is pretty harmless (unless of course your liver isn't functioning correctly). An example of a toxic, but potentially beneficial drug are chemotherapeutic agents such as nitrogen mustards (alkylating agents), methotrexate (anti-metabolites, which are sometimes used to delay worsening of several auto-immune dieases such as rheumatoid arthritis), and several plant alkaloids including vincristine and paclitaxel (vinca alkaloids and taxanes respectively). Their desired action is purely toxic, hence why they have so many side-effects. However the majority of drugs are harmless, have little to no toxicity in therapeutic doses and little to no side-effects. I am not denying that some drugs aren't toxic, but the majority of them really aren't unless used incorrectly.

[scwam]

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

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HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

:D



I'm getting a headache.

Man that was hilarious, long scroll!

[stone_cold_Jimi]

Opiates / opioids ftw. Not medium to long term though, unless you're terminally ill. UK doctors are getting a lot less screwed up about this. I had a very painful op about 15 months ago, went to see the doc to talk about painkillers and she said "well, morphine is very good...". First time ever I've heard a doctor actually say that or been offered it. I opted for tramadol hydrochloride and dihydrocodeine tartrate instead, as I wouldn't be able to work at all with morph (nice though it is). Did the job.

[masterofpuppets]

Opiates / opioids ftw. Not medium to long term though, unless you're terminally ill. UK doctors are getting a lot less screwed up about this. I had a very painful op about 15 months ago, went to see the doc to talk about painkillers and she said "well, morphine is very good...". First time ever I've heard a doctor actually say that or been offered it. I opted for tramadol hydrochloride and dihydrocodeine tartrate instead, as I wouldn't be able to work at all with morph (nice though it is). Did the job.
Not that big a fan of Tramadol. It has a mild SSRI effect, which can syngergise quite badly with several drugs (other SSRI's, DXM in cough medicine, MAOI's, and Tricyclic antidepressants). Not the safest opioid there is. DiHydroCodeine however works quite well, a bit better than Codeine. I believe one of it's metabolites is Hydromorphone (not sure on that however), whereas Codeine's main metabolite is Morphine. Hydromorphone is roughly 4 times more potent than Morphine, and as a result, DiHydroCodeine is inherently a little more potent than Codeine (as the liver is not 100% effecient, you can't just say that 40mg of Codeine would yield the same effect as 10mg of DiHydroCodeine). However, I'd have definately chosen DiHydroCodeine over Morphine. Morphine can be quite nauseating, whereas Codeine (and also DiHydroCodeine) have other metabolites that yield an analgesic effect without nausea, pure Morphine would be much more nauseating than a dose of Codeine that would theoreticly be the same potency.

[wrc06]

Drugs can be harmful or harmless. Most drugs when used correctly have no toxicity. However APAP, like many other substances, is potentially toxic, particularily to those with a weakened liver. The fact that they are not natural to the body makes no difference. Oxygen is not endogenous, yet it's perfectly harmless and we need it to live. Unless of course by not natural to the body, you mean, unwanted by the body. A better example would be alcohol. It's by no means natural to the body (other than small amounts formed in the gut which certain bacteria use to respirate), it has many health problems related to it, however most of these problems are caused by consuming unsafe amounts of alcohol. The liver produces enough Ethanol Dehydrogenase to cope with small to moderate amounts of alcohol, however excess levels of alcohol I believe are metabolized into fat which builds up in the liver, causing fibrosis, cirrhosis, and such. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong there. Let alone the neurological damage large amounts of alcohol can cause. HOWEVER in smaller amounts it is pretty harmless (unless of course your liver isn't functioning correctly). An example of a toxic, but potentially beneficial drug are chemotherapeutic agents such as nitrogen mustards (alkylating agents), methotrexate (anti-metabolites, which are sometimes used to delay worsening of several auto-immune dieases such as rheumatoid arthritis), and several plant alkaloids including vincristine and paclitaxel (vinca alkaloids and taxanes respectively). Their desired action is purely toxic, hence why they have so many side-effects. However the majority of drugs are harmless, have little to no toxicity in therapeutic doses and little to no side-effects. I am not denying that some drugs aren't toxic, but the majority of them really aren't unless used incorrectly.

Yes, as express in earlier post, moderation is the key. So, would you agree, that key features in treating someone is how their body reacts in a certain way, just like how someone would choose tramadol vs. hydrocodone?

Funny about the oxygen and mushrooms, thought we were having a pharmacy discussion.

I like having these discussions and find them very interesting. Got a simple brain picker for ya: how would you treat an alcoholic (40 yr drinking history of a 1.75 liters whisky per day) who's going into DT and you don't have any benzo, barbs, nor beta blockers onboard?

[wrc06]

Interesting that you would bring up oxygen, masterofpuppets. Ever heard of oxygen toxicity? Yes, it could happen. What do you think goes in tanks of divers? Wouldn't it be reasonable to just place 100% oxygen in diving tanks, as we need it anyhow, so that divers could sustain longer dives?

Common observations are what rules science, not the extravagance of words.

Got the answer to the brain teaser yet?

[masterofpuppets]

Haven't checked this thread in a while. I think detoxing from alcohol cold-turkey is a bit dumb. I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to the effects of alc withdrawal, but like most drugs, I would think tapering would work far better than letting him go cold turkey. Weening him gradually of alcohol.

[wrc06]

Haven't checked this thread in a while. I think detoxing from alcohol cold-turkey is a bit dumb. I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to the effects of alc withdrawal, but like most drugs, I would think tapering would work far better than letting him go cold turkey. Weening him gradually of alcohol.

DT doesn't mean 'detox' but delirium tremens, as a consequence of long term drinking and absence of alcohol (which does not necessarily signify abstinence). The scenario is that now an alcoholic patient has developed a life threatening situation and how would you go about addressing the issue when there aren't benzos, barb's, or beta blockers onboard?

You speak of pharmacokenitics with apap and codeine and SSRI effects, so surely you must know of alcohol (as one of the most widely consumed products in the world). I've also eliminated more than half of the possibilities.

[masterofpuppets]

DT doesn't mean 'detox' but delirium tremens, as a consequence of long term drinking and absence of alcohol (which does not necessarily signify abstinence). The scenario is that now an alcoholic patient has developed a life threatening situation and how would you go about addressing the issue when there aren't benzos, barb's, or beta blockers onboard?

You speak of pharmacokenitics with apap and codeine and SSRI effects, so surely you must know of alcohol (as one of the most widely consumed products in the world). I've also eliminated more than half of the possibilities.
I'm not really that knowledgable on alcohol, and I don't claim to be an expert in any field, so why should you assume I am? However, I do know that delirium tremens can be treated lower doses of antipsychotics (I would think haloperidol, but it has some rather nasty side effects, maybe they'd use chlorpromazine, or maybe even atypicals such as risperdone instead).

EDIT: Seems than when one individual who is slightly knowledgable on an off-topic subject shares his knowledge, somebody just as, if not slightly more knowledgable must challenge the other individual to gain forum supremacy over him in order to feel like he has accomplished something and is on top when it comes to that particular subject. Very interesting :rolleyes:

[wrc06]

Neuroleptics may lower seizure thresholds (neuroleptic malignant syndrome --> seizures) and worsen the case (delirium tremens --> seizures) if sedation is not adequate.

Why do you feel attacked? Aren't we merely discussing the intricacies? I assume you know the mechanisms and terminology through the details you've written.

Hint: A better solution has already been mentioned in this thread !!

[masterofpuppets]

Neuroleptics may lower seizure thresholds (neuroleptic malignant syndrome --> seizures) and worsen the case (delirium tremens --> seizures) if sedation is not adequate.

Why do you feel attacked? Aren't we merely discussing the intricacies? I assume you know the mechanisms and terminology through the details you've written.

Hint: A better solution has already been mentioned in this thread !!
I'm not feeling "attacked", your posts just seem a little arrogant to me, that's all (I know my posts probably sound arrogant as hell too, though). And I think the answer to your brain teaser is Opioids (with the exception of Tramadol of course). :) If the DT is a result of acute withdrawal, maybe alcohol would help too.. and I would think GHB and GBL would work well too, being depressants, but maybe not. I've definately heard of GHB induced seizures, however maybe in lower doses it would work without that risk.

[wrc06]

Correctomundo!!!

What the scenario has in common is that benzo, barb, beta blockers, and alcohol all have sedative effects. In alcoholism, the body becomes so adapt to operating in a depressed environment so that when the agent is removed the nervous system 'over compensate' (hence, dt). Without the usual tx, an alcohol drip can be started to suppress the cns, limit the severity of dt, and prevent death. I don't know about the efficacy and safety of gbh and gbl, but definitely the right track.

In this off-hand scenario, alcohol kills and saves at the same time. It probably wouldn't matter if liver enzymes are through the roof via years of drinking but alcohol may be used knowing that it has already caused enough damage. Strange way to go about finding therapy, but imagine what all the homeless alcoholics are doing when drinking.

Drugs do what they do, has to be moderated, and observed with how the body reacts.

[Nanometer]

lol, you were one of the idiots that bouht this crap? :p jk It's all bs from what I have heard.

[mat128]

I'm not really that knowledgable on alcohol, and I don't claim to be an expert in any field, so why should you assume I am? However, I do know that delirium tremens can be treated lower doses of antipsychotics (I would think haloperidol, but it has some rather nasty side effects, maybe they'd use chlorpromazine, or maybe even atypicals such as risperdone instead).

EDIT: Seems than when one individual who is slightly knowledgable on an off-topic subject shares his knowledge, somebody just as, if not slightly more knowledgable must challenge the other individual to gain forum supremacy over him in order to feel like he has accomplished something and is on top when it comes to that particular subject. Very interesting :rolleyes:

I was just wondering why did you call risperidone atypical? *Wow* just read about the side effects of this... I know someone who's taking those pills everydays, I know she's not taking alot (can't recall the mg) but i'll advise her on changing if possible, as it is said on that page (http://www.walnet.org/llf/drugs/risperdal.html) that it should only be used as last case.

[wrc06]

I was just wondering why did you call risperidone atypical? *Wow* just read about the side effects of this... I know someone who's taking those pills everydays, I know she's not taking alot (can't recall the mg) but i'll advise her on changing if possible, as it is said on that page (http://www.walnet.org/llf/drugs/risperdal.html) that it should only be used as last case.

Tough question.

The classification of antipsychotics are generally made based on the effects observed. The traditional drugs tend to be more sedating and produce greater chances of extrapyrimidal side effects (tardive dyskinesia, parkinsonian, dystonia, etc). The newer classes or atypicals are thought to cause less side effects. This is why haldoperidol (a typical) may be used for sedation or combined with a benzodiazepine such as lorazepam for chemical restraint of very agitated people.

Also, the choice of antipsychotics is made based on symptoms and behaviors.
The thought is that typical antipsychotics generally improved positive symptoms while the atypicals improved negative symptoms, and that the choice of medication is decided after considerations of adverse effects and patient compliance.

[fart_plume]

It has been determined that Laboratory mice are the only cause of cancer in humans........

[CyberDruid]

If only....

The US attitude toward anything that might possibly be used to "get you high" is to make it a royal PITA to obtain.

After two major back surgeries I would tend to agree that Opium Derivatives are the most effective. My guts are still torn up and sensitive to Ibuprofen. Alleve? Doesn't work on me...

But unless you are Rush Limaugh getting a prescription for an Opiate is very difficult.

[bf2142lol]

perhaps the burning distracts you from the headache, making you forget about it?

This made me "LOL" - SIGGED!

[cozwin]

whos idea was the stupid annoying repeating

[GazC]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7_S-YHFShkQ

:D

We don't even have Head-on on sale in the UK and I hate the advert too!

[twilyth]

no need to separate opioids if you get them in their pure form. Try Paracodina or Tosidrin - available in Spain I think. Think the first one is a little watered down but the second gives you 1mg of dihydrocodeine per ml. The best think I've every found for headaches though is ketoprofen. In US it's available as Orudis KT. If you're in the market for drugs via mail order, check out the drug buyers guide at http://www.drugbuyers.com/freeboard/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm

[Eddie3dfx]

headaches, flu, coughs, colds, sniffles, runny noses, and all other minor pains go away with redbull ;)

[Brother Esau]

I got something you apply Directly to your Tongue :peace: and believe me the Headache will be the last thing you will be thinking about:D

[drteming]

Hard-on, apply directly to...

[Jochenp]

... the foreskin

[scottc19]

That is the most bizarre commercial I have ever seen.....What the hell were they thinking??????? :rofl: :rofl: