SeventeenorBust (aka SOB) Thread [Archive]

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[XC] riptide

07-15-2006, 02:58 AM

http://www.seventeenorbust.com/download/
This is the download page for your client.

http://www.seventeenorbust.com/faq/
This is the FAQ page. In short this is a Maths project trying to find the smallest Sierpinski numbers

Extract from the wiki:

"A problem in NumberTheory proposed by Waclaw Sierpinski (1882-1969). First, a definition:

Consider numbers of the form N = k * 2^n + 1, where k is odd and n > 0. If, for some fixed k, every integer n yields a composite (non-prime) number N, then k is said to be a Sierpinski number.

The SierpinskiProblem, simply put, is: What is the smallest Sierpinski number?

JohnSelfridge proved in 1962 that k = 78557 is a Sierpinski number. The proof shows that every choice of n falls into at least one of seven categories, where each category guarantees a factor of N. A detailed explanation of the proof is available on TeamPrimeRib's web site.

Most mathematicians believe that 78557 is, indeed, the smallest Sierpinski number. But to prove it, we have to show that every number k < 78557 is not a Sierpinski number. Remember, a Sierpinski number is a fixed k such that all n yield composite N. So a non-Sierpinski number is a fixed k such that some choice of n yields a prime N. This turns out to be relatively easy to do for most choices of k. However, sometimes n has to grow very large before a prime number appears.

By early 2002, primes had been found for all but seventeen choices of k. At that point, the SeventeenOrBust project began a systematic DistributedComputing search of the remaining k values. Nine of them have now been eliminated by the project, and eight remain to prove that 78557 is the smallest Sierpinski number. The community is divided on the question of whether or not it is likely the SeventeenOrBust project will complete its search within its authors' lifetimes. Heuristics have been used to estimate the range of numbers that must be tested before eliminating all the remaining multipliers is likely, but most of these heuristics have been demonstrated to be inaccurate. In any case, it is very likely that SeventeenOrBust will be able to eliminate at least some of the remaining eight.

The remaining k candidates are 10223, 19249, 21181, 22699, 24737, 33661, 55459 and 67607. "

Where are we going?
Yesterday (14/07/2006) we were 17th in overall production with 2.747TceMs.
Yesterdays Top producer TeamPrimeRib was 32.896TceMs. (T for Terra)

Overall (15/07/2006) we are 84th but with approx 10 people returning work we are still owning our neighbours so we will rise fast.
Overall TeamPrimeib have 18.680PcEMs (Peta)
Guess who's in 2nd? Oh hell yes!!! Its the DPC with about half this at 9.88P

http://stats.free-dc.org/new/allteams.php?proj=sob

My 2 cents...

CPU order of rank in SOB.

1)Core - Conroe and later (not mobile Core architecture)

2)Netbursts (with 512K cache or over), Cellys may not do as well as may be expected (even at >4GHZ)because of 256K cache. If you do have one, tighten up memory settings.

3)Amds. AMD's do OK but in a DC community could be used to much better effect on another project. But they ain't no slouches. Just that they compare to Netbursts at the SAME clockspeed.

Quick instructions

1 )http://www.seventeenorbust.com/download/

2)http://www.seventeenorbust.com/signup/
Create an account.

3)PASSWORD WILL BE SENT TO YOU VIA EMAIL

4)Login into site and change your affiliation to team 'XtremeSystems' in preferences.

5)Go to your client and THEN hit the signup button. Enter in required information. Press start. For all subsequent instances you just have to enter name and team under config button on client.

6) Enjoy!

NOTE: Our password is xs (lowercase)

When you install a second client, you don't need to 'create a new login'. Just fill your teamname & username in the fields on the config page.
Also I think that if you uncheck 'Transmit intermediate blocks' it may help performance as the client momentarily stops crunching while communicating.

NOTE: IT IS WELL WORTH READIN THE README'S THAT COME WITH THE CLIENT. THEY PROVIDE NICE INFORMATION FOR SERVICE INSTALL AND COMMAND SWITCHES ETC. ALSO SHOW HOW TO USE HT TO ITS BEST EFFECT. ONE MUST BE CAREFUL ALSO TO SET SOB ON A PRIORITY THAT WILL ALLOW OTHER CPU DC PROJECTS TO SHARE CPU WITH IT AHOULD YOU NEED TO.

Well nothing more to add.... but I think we're doing quite well with our limited membership and invite others of all CPU persuasions to join up.

Update: if your on dial up or have another reason to queue your work, you can always get SBQueue http://home.att.net/~k.brazier/programs/java/sbqueue/index.html#download For windows download the keepqueuelevel.zip on the link and this has scripts that are handy to follow.

Update: running 3 clients on a DX is slightly (about 5%) better than 4 clients. Use 'sobsvc -o2' as a service install for this. See more in the readme's.

UPDATE. Important!! If you receive a block and you do not report intermediate results or just simply stop crunching it within 30 days that block is discarded and any credits you have earned on the intermediate uploads will be lost and taken back

If you drop a test ie. if you restart SOB and it does not finish the test, but downloads another new one you will lose all interim credits after 30days. There is a fix however. Check this (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=113852)thread first. The link to the fix is in it

More updates: Do you ever notice the 'explorer.exe' process in task manager using more proc. power than it should? Say 5-8 %? Apparently thats a bug in the service install setup. If you adjust the Seventeen or Bust service to not 'interact with desktop' this proc usage will go down to normal levels for 'explorer.exe'

em99010pepe

07-15-2006, 04:51 AM

[XC] riptide

07-15-2006, 05:06 AM

Just a few tips.

1º - If you have dedicated crunchers put SOB on normal priority.
2º - Don't add AMD's, it's a waste of time.
3º - When running several instances just check if each one is testing different numbers and not the same one.

Carlos
Yes. Thought 1 would be obvious. He he! :D But ya... on normal. Other than that it'll get pushed aside.

Do you have any figures / or experience for AMD's on this pepe? Are they really THAT bad?

And yes... I started 2 to see how they ran on the same machine. Was afraid that they were doing the same thing. We're talking about the n & k numbers right?

[XC]melymel

07-15-2006, 05:11 AM

And yes... I started 2 to see how they ran on the same machine. Was afraid that they were doing the same thing. We're talking about the n & k numbers right?

How do you stop then running the same n & k numbers then as i think mine was running 2 clients with the same numbers :confused:

em99010pepe

07-15-2006, 12:33 PM

Guys,

Sorry for the delay.

An intel P4 3.0GHz is 30-40% faster (or even more) than an AMD 3000+.

To run several instances (testing different numbers) install SOB as a service. From the readme.txt:

Installing Seventeen Or Bust (multiple clients) as a NT/2K/XP service:

0. This ONLY works on Windows NT/2K/XP and with SB version 1.1.0 (or above)
1. You should run sb120.exe FIRST (to install sb.exe, sign up for an account, etc.)
and configure the logging, connection, priority, etc. options however you wish.
2. Do NOT check the "Auto-start on Windows Boot" box.
3. Exit the Seventeen or Bust client
4. Unpack the contents of this zip file into the "Program Files\sb" directory
(or wherever you installed the SB client initially)
5. Did I mention that this ONLY works on NT/2K/XP (not on 9x/Me)?
6. In the "Program Files\sb" directory, run "sobsvc -i" to install the service.
7. Use the Services control panel to start the newly-installed service, which is
called "Seventeen or Bust service" (or re-boot if you prefer)

To change the number of clients which are run:

1. run "sobsvc -p:<num>" where <num> is the number of clients you wish to run
2. Restart the service

Hope this helps,

Carlos

PS(Attachment: AMD 64 3000+ running at 2GHz)

hixie

07-15-2006, 12:46 PM

Then it would be more correct to say it's clock speed dependant.
Is that right?

em99010pepe

07-15-2006, 01:06 PM

Then it would be more correct to say it's clock speed dependant.
Is that right?

Yes.

Carlos

[XC] riptide

07-17-2006, 08:51 AM

Empepe! Would you say from your experience, is it worthwhile running 2 instances on a HT machine. I noticed that one instance spreads itself across both logical processors aswell? And when both Rosey AND SOB going, the rate did not half, even though ROSEY was at 50% usage and SOB was at 50% proc usage. Actually the rate was 65% approx, and not 50% as I may have expected. And before you ask, yes these were steady rates. This is what it bottomed out at after several hours.

[XC] riptide

07-18-2006, 12:51 AM

Well the guys over at ARS reckon that 2 instances of SOB with HT benefit slightly expecially if RAM exceeds 512. Apparently if ram is less than 512 it will be slightly worse.

[XC] riptide

07-20-2006, 02:49 PM

Baaaahhh look at the tumbleweed blowing around here!

[XC]melymel

07-20-2006, 02:53 PM

[XC] riptide

07-20-2006, 03:03 PM

Yeah casp ending has caused this place to go quiet but it should perk up again soon. Maybe all these people with the DX's form D20l days could give sob a run after casp give the netburst a reason to live, while being replaced by ho's in the other projects. :toast:
What!! what was that noise.... hello!!!! hmmm getting spooky here too! Ya. I got myself on a 50:50 SOB Rosey thing at the moment. But I'm intrigued cos my SOB did not go to 50% Went to 65%! Rosey definetily is at 50%, but thats easy... its just the CPU timer in BOINC! See I'm getting overall more CPU intensive DC output than I would be if I was running only one CPU intensive DC project. Damn I'm gonna have to experiment on myself...

[XC]melymel

07-20-2006, 03:09 PM

KaptainBlaZzed

07-21-2006, 01:44 PM

I think kaptain Blazzed got similar results experimenting with his HT DX rigs. He found running SOB and a boinc project produced more than 50% 50% output on both projects same as you are getting. I wonder if it's a HT thing....

Does anyone know when KB will be back as I remember him saying he was going on holiday or something? nm I just realised he was back :p:

Actulay what you do is bench BOINC with SOB off and only 2 CPU's used, thus giving you higher benchmarks. then you start up SOB, the only down sice is you have to stop SOM and manually rebence BIONC every couple of days.

with a DX @3.1 i was getting ~400g per day SOB and ~2100 ppd in QMC!!

[XC] riptide

07-21-2006, 02:29 PM

Actulay what you do is bench BOINC with SOB off and only 2 CPU's used, thus giving you higher benchmarks. then you start up SOB, the only down sice is you have to stop SOM and manually rebence BIONC every couple of days.

with a DX @3.1 i was getting ~400g per day SOB and ~2100 ppd in QMC!!
How was the vacation, Kapt! So have you experimented with SOB on its own, regarding HT? Do you start up 2 or 1 instances. I never got home today to find out the results of my own experiments yet. Do you manually assign Logical procs to each instance or leave them 'spread' across both logical.

KaptainBlaZzed

07-22-2006, 02:28 PM

How was the vacation, Kapt! So have you experimented with SOB on its own, regarding HT? Do you start up 2 or 1 instances. I never got home today to find out the results of my own experiments yet. Do you manually assign Logical procs to each instance or leave them 'spread' across both logical.

i run 2 x SOB and BOINC or 4 x SOB on my DX's

I have not experemented with only 2 x SOB on a DX

[XC] riptide

07-23-2006, 08:18 AM

i run 2 x SOB and BOINC or 4 x SOB on my DX's

I have not experemented with only 2 x SOB on a DX
Well. When i did get home the puter was weird.. another 5 sec power cut me thinks. All on stock too, so no instablility. Damn UPS I have is crap and I can't use it. Anyways... One instance of SOB gave me roughly 4512XXX. 2 instances gave me well can't remember exact figures, but they were a bit less than 45XXXXX combined. Now I wonder if this northwood was the EE edition would the extra 2Mb L3 cache help! Hmmm.. I wonder is the 512k limiting for 2 instances and having to access main memory too often... hmmm!

[XC] riptide

07-24-2006, 01:38 AM

[XC]melymel

07-24-2006, 01:44 AM

According to Free DC were going to start taking a few names in a weeks time. Give 2 weeks and we'll get out of the 70's and into the 60's. SOB website said yesterday our rate was 15 and Free-DC said we rolled in 18th overall yesterday. Not bad considering CASP is on and alot of people are stretched. Although there is a huge diff between the top teams and our rate, i reckon after CASP we may see a faster ascent with the machine and other coming back and new recruits.

As I said before many of the big crunchers will most likely phase out the DX's for Conroes and so will have left over netburst power that they will want the most of, maybe DDTUNG can switch the DX farm over ;) either way at the end of casp and conroe release also depending on how the new Rosetta credit system goes SOB should pick up. :toast:

[XC] riptide

07-24-2006, 03:07 AM

As I said before many of the big crunchers will most likely phase out the DX's for Conroes and so will have left over netburst power that they will want the most of, maybe DDTUNG can switch the DX farm over ;) either way at the end of casp and conroe release also depending on how the new Rosetta credit system goes SOB should pick up. :toast:
Ya.. heres the thing, will they SELL them to raise cash for the 'roes? Anyways, if anyone wants to sell me DX's or any Netburst chip, I'll buy it at a reasonable price after my finances are sorted out in 2 weeks :)

EDIT: If Victor ever decided to switch his P4's over, that would be pure ownership.

EDIT2: Ya that will be very interesting how the new credit system goes. Imagine if it turned out like SOB, liking Netbursts, or really liking AMD.... damn... nighmare! I might just wait myself to see how this new credit system works. Don't want to get a cruncher chip and find out its not ideal.

[XC] riptide

07-25-2006, 03:01 AM

THEWILDBLUE, your scores for SOB yesterday are up almost exactly 65%. This would equate to a once 50% : 50% split between BOINC and now 100% SOB on a given machine! Making the push for 'The Machine'! ;) (was my analysis correct??:confused: )

[XC]thewildblue

07-25-2006, 03:26 AM

No I just have a 1.4 dothan laptop on doing torrents and I have added a client to each DX( there are only 2) so its more 75%rah 25%sob on each DX.

[XC] riptide

07-25-2006, 03:37 AM

No I just have a 1.4 dothan laptop on doing torrents and I have added a client to each DX( there are only 2) so its more 75%rah 25%sob on each DX.
Baaahhh I was close!! :rofl: ha ha!. Well with that extra push of points we'll be moving faster! Damn I think its time I put the hand in the pocket and picked up a few cheapo Net bursts.

[XC] riptide

07-31-2006, 02:09 PM

Hey WildBlue. Can you sticky this? Pleeeeeeze. We have a few producers (you included ;)). I think it deserves it

[XC]melymel

07-31-2006, 02:38 PM

another vote for sticky!!

P.S. riptide can you put the team password in the first post aswell? or if you have and i've overlooked it make it clearer :slapass: :p:

:toast:

[XC] riptide

07-31-2006, 02:49 PM

another vote for sticky!!

P.S. riptide can you put the team password in the first post aswell? or if you have and i've overlooked it make it clearer :slapass: :p:

:toast:
eeehh... password. What password? I never needed a password? oops!:confused:

[XC]melymel

07-31-2006, 02:53 PM

eeehh... password. What password? I never needed a password? oops!:confused:

I don't understand the password, it seems about 50/50 wether you need it or not. I couldn't join team just by filling in the team name in the client, I had to join XtremeSsytesm from my account on the SOB site where it asks for the password and I've heard a few people need it to join too.

Anyway the password is xs.

:toast:

[XC] riptide

07-31-2006, 03:03 PM

I don't understand the password, it seems about 50/50 wether you need it or not. I couldn't join team just by filling in the team name in the client, I had to join XtremeSsytesm from my account on the SOB site where it asks for the password and I've heard a few people need it to join too.

Anyway the password is XS.

:toast:
But..... is it not automatically emailed to you regardless after you login as anon on the client... then you get email with password...then you go to prefs on webpage and confirm your team affiliation there. Damn its been a while since I first set it up.

http://www.seventeenorbust.com/signup/

[XC]melymel

07-31-2006, 03:16 PM

Ok well I just tried different methods (setup 2 new clients and users) and found that as long as you download the client and setup your username and team through that you get auto joined to XtremeSystems. However if you sign up for an account before downloading the software and filling in the team details you need the password to join the team as you need to join through the SOB site. :toast:

Haltech

07-31-2006, 04:37 PM

Umm pw is lowercase xs.. not upper.

[XC] riptide

07-31-2006, 04:45 PM

Umm pw is lowercase xs.. not upper.
You've joined I see. Gratz! I suppose your points earned as Anon will not carry over to the team?

PFOUR

08-02-2006, 09:41 AM

PFOUR

08-02-2006, 10:27 AM

PFOUR

08-02-2006, 10:28 AM

Where can I find the Zip file refered to in this post please?

Guys,

Sorry for the delay.

An intel P4 3.0GHz is 30-40% faster (or even more) than an AMD 3000+.

To run several instances (testing different numbers) install SOB as a service. From the readme.txt:

Installing Seventeen Or Bust (multiple clients) as a NT/2K/XP service:

0. This ONLY works on Windows NT/2K/XP and with SB version 1.1.0 (or above)
1. You should run sb120.exe FIRST (to install sb.exe, sign up for an account, etc.)
and configure the logging, connection, priority, etc. options however you wish.
2. Do NOT check the "Auto-start on Windows Boot" box.
3. Exit the Seventeen or Bust client
4. Unpack the contents of this zip file into the "Program Files\sb" directory
(or wherever you installed the SB client initially)
5. Did I mention that this ONLY works on NT/2K/XP (not on 9x/Me)?
6. In the "Program Files\sb" directory, run "sobsvc -i" to install the service.
7. Use the Services control panel to start the newly-installed service, which is
called "Seventeen or Bust service" (or re-boot if you prefer)

To change the number of clients which are run:

1. run "sobsvc -p:<num>" where <num> is the number of clients you wish to run
2. Restart the service

Hope this helps,

Carlos

PS(Attachment: AMD 64 3000+ running at 2GHz)

[XC] riptide

08-02-2006, 11:22 AM

I'm going to download this now and have a play with it.
I was running 3 pretty good P4's on Rosetta but got fed up with trying my balls off and creating enough heat for an extra summer just to compete with basic AMD's so I've not crunched for a few months.
I'm going to go back to Rosetta when I've sorted my Conroe setup but this looks like a good outlet for my P4's
Any advice from the SOB pro's?
Yep. When it comes to SOB, and P4's, clockspeed is all important. Even dropping a divider on the ram does little to diminish the powa. It is worth noting though that Conroe, because of its overclockability is better than P4's. It was believed around these parts that Core was not GREAT at it. But it turns out a Conroe @ 2.4 (E6400 stock?),one instance on one core, may be broadly equivalent to a Northwood or whatever at 3.7. I think empeppe refers to the files that are created from the install itself (ie self extracting installer).;) you'll find the reults of that extraction in C:\program file\sb . Try to run SOB as a service. Makes life handy if your rig has to reboot or a temp power failure.

PFOUR

08-02-2006, 11:45 AM

Running 2 instances with no probs now on my dual core P D 805 @ 3.80 ghz
Both instances just over 4m cEMS/sec
Will restart my P4 670 now as it will run 4.8ghz.

[XC] riptide

08-02-2006, 03:04 PM

Running 2 instances with no probs now on my dual core P D 805 @ 3.80 ghz
Both instances just over 4m cEMS/sec
Will restart my P4 670 now as it will run 4.8ghz.
Excellent!! Well the outlook is like this according to the stats, in about a week we take down 'Ukraine' team, and then there are a quick succesion of teams that should place us near the #60 mark.!

pH(x)

09-04-2007, 08:58 AM

Hey XS + riptide, I just joined in today with a P4 3.5GHz and C2D 3.0GHz with 1 instance running on each currently.

Working on the service installations for each system running as well. The P4 Northwood 2.8C has always run R@H in HT but now it will run R@H and 2 SOB.

[XC] riptide

09-04-2007, 09:00 AM

Nice...! The P4 doesn't really need the service installation.. if you don't want it. The C2D does however.

Anyway, each to their own preferences. :)

pH(x)

09-04-2007, 09:03 AM

riptide;2411073']Nice...! The P4 doesn't really need the service installation.. if you don't want it. The C2D does however.

Anyway, each to their own preferences. :)

No? :shrug: Saying I could just run two instances at once from the Windows Startup Folder? :cool: But it does certainly benefit from HT, right, and how about the DDR-SDRAM latency on my P4 2-2-2-5 isn't stable anymore in this heat and default CAS-TRAS is 3-3-3-8??? :shocked:

pH(x)

09-04-2007, 09:17 AM

What about priority settings on P4 vs C2D?

[XC] riptide

09-04-2007, 02:14 PM

The benefits on the P4 are there alright, but I thought you were running Rosetta with it on the P4?

You will see a drop with the looser timings... but hey... such is life :)

Priority? Come at me again with that one.

pH(x)

09-04-2007, 09:30 PM

I am running both Rosetta and Seventeen primarily :)

I experience fluxes in cEMs per sec from 3.8 million to 4.4 million on P4 Northwood 3.5GHz and fluctuates from 5.8 million to 6.3 million on C2D Conroe 3.0GHz.

What I meant by priority was in Config menu, 3rd category, there is Normal Low and Idle I was inquiring on which options would be best for C2D and which for a P4 each usually running other DC projects like R@H and QMC@H(though not often)

[XC] riptide

09-05-2007, 03:20 AM

I am running both Rosetta and Seventeen primarily :)

I experience fluxes in cEMs per sec from 3.1 million to 4.3 million on P4 Northwood 3.5GHz and fluxes from 5.8 million to 6.3 million on C2D Conroe 3.0GHz.

What I meant by priority was in Config menu, 3rd category, there is Normal Low and Idle I was inquiring on which options would be best for C2D and which for a P4 each usually running other DC projects like R@H and QMC@H(though not often)

Ok. Normal Priority. This will let it take ove one core completely, or one HT completely. If this is the case, and you have Rosetta on the other HT 'core' then you only need one instance of SOB. I can tell you now that you will see a ~35% (Not a 50% :)) drop in SOB produciton if you give half your processor cores (whetehr HT or real) to Boinc. This is due to Seventeen's massive reliance on memory bandwith. I see I had myself posted some information pertaining to dividers above, over a year ago. Prolly was a little misleading. SOB is a memory bandwith beast. It can't get enough.