Storm, DDC Pro, PA120.3 = poor performance

[Smalltimer]

Well I'm sure there is a logical explaination for this :)

I cleaned things up, did an overnight test and installed it into my machine.
My idle temps are 35c with 1.37v / 2.81Ghz on my 165.

However, things get toasty quite fast and raising voltage gets the system up to 47 easilly as well. So overclocking is on parr with my air cooling atm :D

Any ideas?

[ReD.SkY]

im hoping you mean 1.3 volts on cpu lol

you have air everywhere

in rad and blocks too prolly

its 90F ambient.. and im 31 idle with a BIP3 and a MP-05

[Smalltimer]

Oops I corrected that lol
Alright, I thought I had it all worked out, but I guess not. Any tips for working out air bubbles?

Also do you know what ports are inlet and outlet on the DCC pump?
I took a guess and hooked the port on the outer edge of the pump head to the storm intake(inpingement port). Assuming that the center port of the pump is the intake. Not sure if I have it right though.

[SiGfever]

Well I'm sure there is a logical explaination for this :)

I cleaned things up, did an overnight test and installed it into my machine.
My idle temps are 35c with 1.38v / 2.81Ghz on my 165.

However, things get toasty quite fast and raising voltage gets the system up to 47 easilly as well. So overclocking is on parr with my air cooling atm :D

Any ideas?

Did you tilt and shake the computer so the trapped air in the rad came out? Or did you mount the rad with the barbs down and use the "bleed screw" when filling and bleeding to process the air out? Also what thermal compund did you use and how much?

[Smalltimer]

Did you tilt and shake the computer so the trapped air in the rad came out? Or did you mount the rad with the barbs down and use the "bleed screw" when filling and bleeding to process the air out? Also what thermal compund did you use and how much?
My RAD is external atm.
Yes I bled the rad when it was standing using the bleed valve(screw) on the top, although I was not satisfied with the results, even though I was not able to expell any more air from the RAD I can still hear gurgling when I move it around though.

I used AS3 for the compound, I put on a thin amount using a razor blade as thin as I could spread it without leaving empty areas. I find AS3 to be very pasty though... almost to thick to spread properly.

[SiGfever]

My RAD is external atm.
Yes I bled the rad when it was standing using the bleed valve(screw) on the top, although I was not satisfied with the results, even though I was not able to expell any more air from the RAD I can still hear gurgling when I move it around though.

I used AS3 for the compound, I put on a thin amount using a razor blade as thin as I could spread it without leaving empty areas. I find AS3 to be very pasty though... almost to thick to spread properly.
I sounds like your system is partially air locked. I use AS5 and the company instructions say to put a small amount (about the size of a small grain of white rice) on the middle of the cpu and put the block on giving it a 1-2 degree twist in both directions when it makes contact with the cpu. Tighten down securely and evenly and the paste will distribute itself when heated and cooled multiple times. AS5 can take 50-200 hrs to fully cure and MUST be turned off and allowed to cool multiple times to ensure proper curing.

What do you have a T-line or a reservoir?

[nealh]

Well I'm sure there is a logical explaination for this :)

I cleaned things up, did an overnight test and installed it into my machine.
My idle temps are 35c with 1.37v / 2.81Ghz on my 165.

However, things get toasty quite fast and raising voltage gets the system up to 47 easilly as well. So overclocking is on parr with my air cooling atm :D

Any ideas?

I will just ask(I assume you have done this correctly), since everyone does..you have the correct barb for the inlet on the storm....

No kinked tubing?

[Smalltimer]

I will just ask(I assume you have done this correctly), since everyone does..you have the correct barb for the inlet on the storm....

No kinked tubing?
Okay, I am using the barbs that came with the waterblock.
Stainless looking barbs and to close together to place clips on each :(

Does anyone know which ports on the DCC are inlet and outlet and if it makes a difference which is attached to what component in the loop?

I ran from: > pump > storm > RAD > T-LINE + RES. > back to pump

[SiGfever]

Okay, I am using the barbs that came with the waterblock.
Stainless looking barbs and to close together to place clips on each :(

Does anyone know which ports on the DCC are inlet and outlet and if it makes a difference which is attached to what component in the loop?

I ran from: > pump > storm > RAD > T-LINE + RES. > back to pump
My Storm came with plastic barbs and the one closest to the center is the "inlet". IIRC the pump has an arrow cast onto it showing outlet.

[Smalltimer]

Alright it looks like I have the pump outlet matched to the storm inlet (center). I'm assuming this is the correct config for performance. Yes my storm also came with what looks like delrin barbs on it. My DCC Pro came with two stainless barbs which in my oppinion are totally innapropriate for the pump since it leave 0 clearance for clips or clamps on the barbs.

I am very dissatisfied with the DCC Pro overall. It has poor craftsmanship written all over it. Unsersized inlets with ID conversion barbs, side by side ports, machining marks and rough finish interior. Overall it would not take more work to make a better product, simple negligence on the quality control part of the company.

I will not waist much time with this pump, I will move to something more powerful and better suited to the task.

[SiGfever]

Did you get the model with the clear plexi top? If yes then use the top center port for the inlet.

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/7613/laingddcpro015fm.jpg

[Smalltimer]

Yep thats the one!
I attached the outter left one to the storm inlet, is that correct or am I backwards?

[SiGfever]

Yep thats the one!
I attached the outter left one to the storm inlet, is that correct or am I backwards?
Plug the "right inlet" port with the screw on top and install the barb into the top for your inlet. The left port is correct for the outlet. From what I have read these little guys need modding to really get all the performance out of them.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104519

[nealh]

top of course is inlet and I believe most people use the outermost port as outlet and plug the inner port

Also most on this forum have been very pleased with the performance on the DDC pump....is this the 18w version

Talk with RedSky he has one...

[Smalltimer]

Plug the "right inlet" port with the screw on top and install the barb into the top for your inlet. The left port is correct for the outlet. From what I have read these little guys need modding to really get all the performance out of them.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=104519
Wow!
I had no idea that could be done :)
I will tear down tonight and make the changes. I will also inspect all my components. I am dual priming @ 1.41v / 54c atm. there is no way this system is even near its cooling potential. I think I will pop my 165 lid also. I suspect its a bad mount or something.

[Smalltimer]

top of course is inlet and I believe most people use the outermost port as outlet and plug the inner port

Also most on this forum have been very pleased with the performance on the DDC pump....is this the 18w version

Talk with RedSky he has one...
Yea, I will definately change it :)
How can I tell if this is the 18w version or not?

[nealh]

there is so small writing on the side..it will say 18w

You really should have better temps...this pump should handle that radiator ok

[SiGfever]

Yea, I will definately change it :)
How can I tell if this is the 18w version or not?
If it is the "Pro" version then it is 12w, the "Ultra" is 18w.

http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp350-09.html

[Smalltimer]

Ah I see now!
Yep its the Pro so.. 12w version here.

Well I took my system appart, swapped the barbs on the DCC and popped the lid on my 165 processor. Got my lovely wife to help me bleed the system and I was blessed to get back into windows at 30c :)

I will tweak my voltage and overclock again and see what it says, but a quick prime never broke a sweat on the cooling system though dual prime @ 1.34 maintained 32c.

I'll post the results when I return :p - Thanks for all who are helping me on this.

[ReD.SkY]

the ultra version has an orange/rust color impellor :)

glad to hear the problem is fixed :)

[Smalltimer]

the ultra version has an orange/rust color impellor :)

glad to hear the problem is fixed :)
Thanks

Well things have much improved but it looks like my PSU is overworked under the new components. I have a Seasonic HT500 power supply and I am watching the vcore under dual prime dip almost .07v on occasion. It seems stable @ 1.50v but whenever the voltage sags it will error out. I have to compensate by raising the voltage but this is a crude solution to a hardware problem.

I wondered if a 600Watt Seasonic can handle this load or should I be looking at something bigger?

[ReD.SkY]

ocz gamextream 700w :woot:

[nealh]

Ah I see now!
Yep its the Pro so.. 12w version here.

Well I took my system appart, swapped the barbs on the DCC and popped the lid on my 165 processor. Got my lovely wife to help me bleed the system and I was blessed to get back into windows at 30c :)

I will tweak my voltage and overclock again and see what it says, but a quick prime never broke a sweat on the cooling system though dual prime @ 1.34 maintained 32c.

I'll post the results when I return :p - Thanks for all who are helping me on this.

congrats..did you have the inlet to the pump incorrect?

[Smalltimer]

congrats..did you have the inlet to the pump incorrect?
They were correct but I did not setup the DCC pump top properly(using the top) so I think that really impacted performance.

I'm currently using AS3 on my core and block, I will remount it tomorrow with liquid silver and see if it will improve my temps further. Some people on the forums claim to of gained 30-50mhz using this stuff! :)

I think my 165 IHS was warped also. Whenever I mounted my waterblock beforehand I noticed that the thermal paste was never completely spread over the core, instead it was sort of patchy covering 1.4 of a corner area. As soon as I removed the lid my idle temps dropped significantly 8c.

I can't see anymore bubbles in the loop and everything seems quiet atm. So hopefully things have leveled off. I'm pretty sure if I get a better PSU I can squeeze a few more mhz out of this system though.

[ReD.SkY]

I'm currently using AS3 on my core and block, I will remount it tomorrow with liquid silver and see if it will improve my temps further. Some people on the forums claim to of gained 30-50mhz using this stuff! :)

u mean coollaboratory liquid pro ?

link?

[SiGfever]

They were correct but I did not setup the DCC pump top properly(using the top) so I think that really impacted performance.

I'm currently using AS3 on my core and block, I will remount it tomorrow with liquid silver and see if it will improve my temps further. Some people on the forums claim to of gained 30-50mhz using this stuff! :)

I think my 165 IHS was warped also. Whenever I mounted my waterblock beforehand I noticed that the thermal paste was never completely spread over the core, instead it was sort of patchy covering 1.4 of a corner area. As soon as I removed the lid my idle temps dropped significantly 8c.

I can't see anymore bubbles in the loop and everything seems quiet atm. So hopefully things have leveled off. I'm pretty sure if I get a better PSU I can squeeze a few more mhz out of this system though.

Try AS5, I don't think that you will be disapointed.

[Smalltimer]

Yep thats the stuff, I ordered a seringe of it, its sitting in a box waiting to be used. I read some people have had bad experiences with this due to solidification but I don't think that will be a problem. The most important thing is to have very clean surfaces to work with otherwise the product is reactive and could cause various side effects.

Since I am on a very clean ceramic core and copper I hope to see drops in my loaded temps and hopfully gain a few mhz in the process :D

[Reinvented]

Yep thats the stuff, I ordered a seringe of it, its sitting in a box waiting to be used. I read some people have had bad experiences with this due to solidification but I don't think that will be a problem. The most important thing is to have very clean surfaces to work with otherwise the product is reactive and could cause various side effects.

Since I am on a very clean ceramic core and copper I hope to see drops in my loaded temps and hopfully gain a few mhz in the process :D

I saw a huge drop...almost 9c drop under load. It really helped. Great addition to any watercooling compared to Liquid Metal Thermal stuff.

[SiGfever]

Yep thats the stuff, I ordered a seringe of it, its sitting in a box waiting to be used. I read some people have had bad experiences with this due to solidification but I don't think that will be a problem. The most important thing is to have very clean surfaces to work with otherwise the product is reactive and could cause various side effects.

Since I am on a very clean ceramic core and copper I hope to see drops in my loaded temps and hopfully gain a few mhz in the process :D
Be sure and clean your core and the back of the waterblock with 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol. And follow the manufacturers instructions for application. A little goes a long way and extra can impact your performance.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

[[XC] DragonOrta]

With an IHS-less cpu, I'd probably use AS Ceramique instead of AS5. Works just as well as AS5, is more versatile and isn't electrically capacitive.

[Smalltimer]

Be sure and clean your core and the back of the waterblock with 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol. And follow the manufacturers instructions for application. A little goes a long way and extra can impact your performance.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm
Yep yep, thanks for the info. I will go over this meticulously before I give it a go. After one removes an opteron IHS though, other mods just seem so low risk :D

[ReD.SkY]

what do u guys generally think about coolaboratory liquid metal?

i can get one for $5 shipped any better than AS5 ?

[Shpoon]

what do u guys generally think about coolaboratory liquid metal?

i can get one for $5 shipped any better than AS5 ?

Temp wise, yes....but I don't trust it because of the various reports of corrosion, and I'm not anal enough to avoid it. (The corrosion that is).

[mion]

what do u guys generally think about coolaboratory liquid metal?

i can get one for $5 shipped any better than AS5 ?

Well for bare core like on gfx as5 to liquid metal gave about 1c of difference. But on my intel 805 I got about 4-5c drop under load when I switched from as5

[ReD.SkY]

Well for bare core like on gfx as5 to liquid metal gave about 1c of difference. But on my intel 805 I got about 4-5c drop under load when I switched from as5


wow... any corrosion?

[Radical_53]

Liquid metal gave me a drop of ~3-4° on CPU or GFX core, I'm sticking with it :)

@smalltimer: If you do have voltage fluctuations, it shouldn't be your PSU. The 500W Seasonic can handle way more than your rig might want from it :)

[ReD.SkY]

well, thats enuff performance for $5 :D

there isnt any corrosion with copper so i be good :)

[m0da]

i can get one for $5 shipped any better than AS5 ?

can you... how do I say... hook a brother up? :cool:

thanks :)

oh and nice temps there!

[ReD.SkY]

its from a private seller

send me a buck and i will squeeze a drop or 2 in a bag or something and ship it to u lol

[Smalltimer]

Liquid metal gave me a drop of ~3-4° on CPU or GFX core, I'm sticking with it :)

@smalltimer: If you do have voltage fluctuations, it shouldn't be your PSU. The 500W Seasonic can handle way more than your rig might want from it :)
Great to hear that.

Any idea what could cause these fluctuations?
Prime always seems to error out about the time that that they occur, usually there is a dip and it errors out typa thing.

[Radical_53]

Well, maybe your board's PWM is getting too hot over the time. I do have little to none fluctuations with my DFI Expert board.

[Smalltimer]

Well, maybe your board's PWM is getting too hot over the time. I do have little to none fluctuations with my DFI Expert board.
Excellent call man!
I realized when I took it appart this morning that my chipset network on my Asus was fanless and that everything was scorching in there! I added the mini fan to the heatpipes and low ane behold my voltages have stabilized!

Also I would like to speak on behalf of Liquid Metal! :eek:
Since I removed the IHS on my 165 I am not to concerned with oxidization or hardening. I read one count where someone was complaining about the product curing after several weeks of use. However if both surfaces are clean "alchohol and distilled water clean" the product will be fine.

How does it work?

Le me sum it up in one word AMAZING! :slobber:
My temps(especially load) have dropped dramatically 10c at the same voltage however... when I raise the voltage, I was gasping as my temps now refused to climb passed 35c no matter what I throw at it!
My idle temps also dropped by 3c. The stuff is simply amazing.

When I placed the product on my die, I masked the core with white duct tape . I carefully made a template with cardboard and a hobby knife to an exact fit, then I used it to stamp out a perfect match in duct-tape. The results are a much safer setup in the unlikely event that the LM would squeeze out during waterblock compression.

After I applied the product, and whiped it and whiped it, and whiped it again! I realized how litteral the instructions were of a little goes a long way meant.
I had a mirror finish on my die with was seemed like a translucent silver like gleen. I used a Q-Tip to spread it thin and even.

Great stuff! Easiest performance increase I have done to date ;)

Now, I wonder if I can apply this stuff to my motherboard heatpipe network?!?

[SiGfever]

I just ordered some, I will give it a try.

[Radical_53]

@small: Duct tape is no bad idea, yet I've never seen that stuff running around :) I've been using it on naked dies for CPU, GPU and chipset, also my trusted Dothan running in my laptop has this stuff sitting on it. No problems so far. No curing, no hardening out, nothing like that.

[Scarlet Infidel]

Ive just tried the Liquid Pro for the first time. In my very cheap water cooling setup my load temps have gone from about 43-44 down to about 36-37 degrees. (I used AS5 before).

Im amazed by this stuff though its a little strange to spread at first.

[ShoNuff]

Ive just tried the Liquid Pro for the first time. In my very cheap water cooling setup my load temps have gone from about 43-44 down to about 36-37 degrees. (I used AS5 before).

Im amazed by this stuff though its a little strange to spread at first.


I like your results. How did you spread it?

[Scarlet Infidel]

Hey, 100 posts, well done.

Well i couldnt find a suitable paintbrush so my sister donated an unused makeup brush which she didnt want, It looks a bit like this. (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0009F9U20.01-A2MFW0T96F0U1K._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

At first the little ball of metal just moved around the IHS in an annoying (but a little fun) way. After dabbing it and brushing it enough it started to spread, i found doing circles like brushing your teeth was the best way to spread it out initially.

Once it was spread about, i used the brush to neaten it up and make it even with some more gentle brush strokes.

There was a little excess on mine which i spread as a very thin coat on the bottom of my waterblock, mainly where the core would be. I just wiped the rest off the brush.

I dont know what the best way to apply this stuff is but i think some trial and error and guesswork is ok.

I also think that this stuff is good because its less critical if you put a little too much on because its muss less thermally insulating than other pastes.

[nealh]

we can you buy this stuff?

[Smalltimer]

Hey, 100 posts, well done.

Well i couldnt find a suitable paintbrush so my sister donated an unused makeup brush which she didnt want, It looks a bit like this. (http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0009F9U20.01-A2MFW0T96F0U1K._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg)

At first the little ball of metal just moved around the IHS in an annoying (but a little fun) way. After dabbing it and brushing it enough it started to spread, i found doing circles like brushing your teeth was the best way to spread it out initially.

Once it was spread about, i used the brush to neaten it up and make it even with some more gentle brush strokes.

There was a little excess on mine which i spread as a very thin coat on the bottom of my waterblock, mainly where the core would be. I just wiped the rest off the brush.

I dont know what the best way to apply this stuff is but i think some trial and error and guesswork is ok.

I also think that this stuff is good because its less critical if you put a little too much on because its muss less thermally insulating than other pastes.

Yep my very similar experience. The stuff sreads like mad once it starts to adhere to the surface. After I was done, I wondered if I shouldn't try using a razor blade to spread it, it might help spread it more uniformely accross the surface and perhaps it will pick up(scrape ) the excess at the same time.

I will be unmounting my block during the week to check on the state of things and I will try that approach then. - I'll post results.


nealh we can you buy this stuff?

nealh, I got mine here: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4373

[Scarlet Infidel]

Well in the UK (and Europe for that matter) you can buy it at loads of places. I have no idea about the US but you can order it direct here. (http://www.coollaboratory.com/en/products.shtml)

Interesting idea with the razor Smalltimer. Mine was very shiny when i had finished but nowhere near as flat and smooth as the pictures on their site. I look forward to your findings.

[ReD.SkY]

i just bought mine... will be doing before and after temps

[SiGfever]

we can you buy this stuff?
I got mine here:

http://www.frozencpu.com/thr-26.html

[nealh]

wow..kinda pricey..will it really lower temps several C more than AS5

Thanks for the links guys..performance-pc is in fl ..so I get tax too.. :(
Frozen cpu is better choice...may buy some for Sh*ts& Grins and see what happens

can you spread this with a fine modeling paint brush?

[Smalltimer]

wow..kinda pricey..will it really lower temps several C more than AS5

Thanks for the links guys..performance-pc is in fl ..so I get tax too.. :(
Frozen cpu is better choice...may buy some for Sh*ts& Grins and see what happens

can you spread this with a fine modeling paint brush?
Yep it is pricey, however when you see how far this stuff spreads it will really clear up the price issue. IMO, with the seringe they send out you'd be good for 300 core mounts if not more.

The stuff is really unique in that once you place it on the core, it really seems like it won't spread, but once you break the bubble(so tp speak) it spreads and spreads and spreads for what seems like forever and it makes your tiny drop seem like much more than necessary.

I can't compare to AS5 because I ran AS3 and it had not set yet on my first mount it gave me 10c under load over my fresh AS3, then I remounted with a thinner layer and put a little more tension on my Storm waterblock and it gained me 3c more under load so a totaly of 13c overall on my AS3 application.

I do agree though that my AS3 mount was not very good. it was on the IHS, probably to thick and had not cured. So take it with a grain of salt. I am reading though, that people have seen 3 - 5c improvements consistently. I think the main reason they see the improvements is that the stuff spreads so nicely and probably maximized the contact with much less effort than the usual AS products.