Modified alphacool top performance

[andersson.j]

The original inlet hole was 7mm and off center, after my modifications it's 12mm, dead center and a bit tapered.

Unmodified (7mm)
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6527/unmodifiedddc4vw.jpg

Modified (12mm)
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9791/modifiedddc6el.jpg


Max flow test single pump
This test was performed at 12.3V with EK nipples, top mounted inlet and 1 feet 12mm ID tubing at each end.
I repeated 3-4 times for accuracy.
Alphacool data: 600LPH
Single unmodified: 900LPH
Single modified: 1000LPH (11% higher max flow)

Max flow test two parallell pumps
This test was performed at 12.3V with EK nipples, top mounted inlets, 12mm ID Y-connections and 1.5 feet 12mm ID tubing at each end. I repeated the test three times for accuracy.
Dual modified: 1350LPH (35% higher max flow)

Max head test
All tests were performed at 12.3V with EK nipples, top mounted inlet, 1 feet 12mm ID tubing at one end and 7m+ at the other.
I repeated a couple of times as air in the pump made a huge difference.
Alphacool data: 4.7m
Single unmodified: 6.6m
Single modified: 6m (11% lower max head)

[ReD.SkY]

wow nice

[SiGfever]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! :toast:

[ShoNuff]

Wait...IIRC you get less head with the modded top? That's not good. I wonder how the Radiical top would perform with both inlet and outlet opened up the 12mm?

Looking forward to your other tests. Nice work btw.

[andersson.j]

Wait...IIRC you get less head with the modded top? That's not good.
Yep, but since DDCs has very much head but kinda low flow I'm happy to sacrifice 11% head to gain 11% flow. Although I wouldn't want to sacrifice any more head.


I wonder how the Radiical top would perform with both inlet and outlet opened up the 12mm?
Most pumps have small outlets, I suppose this gives them higher head? If so 12mm inlet and outlet shouldn't give much head but a lot of flow. Someone with a Radiical top should test with smaller outlet barbs and see how it affects performance.

I wish someone with the right equipment and know how would test all aftermarket DDC tops, there's so many of them!

[ShoNuff]

Given the information on Radiicals page your results line up with what they found with respect to head loss when going from 3/8" to 1/2". They also report better flow.

I'm looking forward to testing mine when I get them. I also agree with you. It would be nice if someone uniformly tested the various tops so that we could pick the one that best suits our needs.



Testing here indicates that the previous flow rate of 300l/h is now incorrect. The new rate of flow through the pump using 1/2" inlet and outlet barbs is 500+ l/h. This gain in flow rate is an added plus to potentially more and substantially easier options in pump placement. The testing on pump head indicates that a 2.6metre head is achieved on 3/8" tubing and a 2.5 metre head is achieved using 1/2" tubing.


Read the whole story here... (http://www.radiical.com.au/products/RadiicalPumpTop.asp)


edit: fixed link. :)

[Syranide]

Very nice work with the widening of the inlet, looks really neatly done!

[OCme]

looks like the top would be easy enough to mod with a drill press or dremel

[andersson.j]

looks like the top would be easy enough to mod with a drill press or dremel
Yeah it's easy! Plexi is easy to work with.
I used bigger and bigger drills up to maybe 10mm, then I used a file for the last part since the initial hole wasn't centered. After that I taped som sandpaper to a drill to make the hole perfectly round. Then I put a rag on the drill and used some polishing compound to make the plexi clear again. I didn't intend to make the tapering but I ran the drill a bit too fast so the plexi melted! :p

Right now I'm trying to get my T-bal XL and miniNG to work with my laptop since my stationary rig doesn't have any pumps at the moment. I need the miniNG to vary the voltage on my lab PSU. Then I'll do some more tests.

[JoeBar]

Am i the only one here feeling good with my unmodded alphacool top...? :p:
In my opinion the small diameter outlet channel is the reason for the results. All in all either alhacool unmodded or radiical. My :2cents:

[andersson.j]

Am i the only one here feeling good with my unmodded alphacool top...? :p:
In my opinion the small diameter outlet channel is the reason for the results. All in all either alhacool unmodded or radiical. My :2cents:
You do have a point. But I won't try widening my outlet channels (unless someone else do it first and get a big perfomance boost!) because it's a lot longer than the inlet channel, it's skewed, and hard to drill w/o trashing the threads which makes it hard to modify if you don't have the proper tools.

I wish I knew about the radiical tops back when I bought my alphacool tops!

[JoeBar]

I wouldn't try widening the outlet channel, unless i had ready the money for a radiical one... ;)

[nealh]

Given the information on Radiicals page your results line up with what they found with respect to head loss when going from 3/8" to 1/2". They also report better flow.

I'm looking forward to testing mine when I get them. I also agree with you. It would be nice if someone uniformly tested the various tops so that we could pick the one that best suits our needs.



Read the whole story here... (http://www.radiical.com.au/products/RadiicalPumpTop.asp)



edit: fixed link. :)

seems the drop in head reported by Radiical is minimal....3/8in barb= 2.6m and the 1/2in barb is 2.5m...now I wonder what these values are for a Ultra(18w) version of the pump

[eXa]

that would be the 10w...

[andersson.j]

My lab PSU don't want to play with me so I gave up and did a parallell flow test with a regular PSU instead. See first post for results.

The next five days I'm gonna be working (12h shifts) so I won't have much time for playing around with the pumps. But then I'm planing to do a parallell head test.

[Radical_53]

Great to hear that! Nice numbers! :D

[eXa]

but even 6m head is alot more than 4.7m that is specified...

[yngndrw]

So what are we saying here, the unmodified top is better than the modified one ?

I was just about to drill mine out too, good job I read this. :toast:

[andersson.j]

So what are we saying here, the unmodified top is better than the modified one ?
Yes it could be so. I guess it depends on what else is in the loop?
I should have done some tests with some components in the loop. Too bad it's too late now...

Bad planing! Actually no planing at all! :P

[Radical_53]

But you only loose some head by the modification but gain a lot more flow. So in the end it's still a big improvement...

[yngndrw]

Due to the limitations of the loop, and the lower head pressure the flow will never be anywhere near the max flow rate anyway, so I don't think the loss in head pressure would be worth the gain in max flow rate.

[Sneaky]

how do they do in series as far as head and flowrate?

[yngndrw]

Can we have some real-world tests please. I.e. Temps without modification and temps with modification in a normal loop. (Storm, PA120.2 .. etc)

[Radical_53]

Well, have so seen the numbers on systemcooling? Small loss in head pressure but due to the gain in max flow, more flow in the loop... :)

[yngndrw]

But if you have a pump which has a stupidly high max flow, yet a very low head pressure, you still get a low flow rate due to to the restriction in the loop ?

[Radical_53]

Yes. It's all about finding the right pump solution for the restriction of the loop.

As it seems, very high head only doesn't do the trick alone, but very high flow alone doesn't do either.

That's why I'm curious about his serial/parallel test. The head of these pumps is already quite high, so serial "might" work better for one or the other loop.

[yngndrw]

Do you mean trying two modified DCC's in serial Vs two unmodified DCC's in serial ?

It would be nice to get some more of them Head Pressure Vs Flow Rate graphs for modified and unmodified DCC(s) as well as some curves of Head Pressure Vs Flow Rate for the restriction of some standard loops. Storm, PA120.*, etc.

[Radical_53]

Well, perfect would be to test both modes with

- unmodified DDC, standard top
- plex top, unmodified, front inlet
- plex top, unmodified, top inlet
- plex top, modified, top inlet

All that should add to a complete picture how the pumps operate and what might do the trick when using two of them.

[yngndrw]

Aye, and a proper Flow Vs Head curve instead of just the max would be idea.

Now we just need to find somebody with the time and money to do that. :P

[Radical_53]

Some proper curves plus maybe 2 "real" loops in comparison would be really nice. But that means a lot of work...

[yngndrw]

But that means a lot of work...
Yup, I vote you. ;) :toast:

[Radical_53]

We'll see :)

[javascripterror]

We'll see :)

You would also need a very stable power supply as these pumps seem to vary quite a bit on small voltage changes.

[Radical_53]

Yes, for sure. But I guess that would be the smallest problem in the end ;) The right test setup and the right thing for measurements would be harder to find or more expensive.

[creidiki]

Jesus christ on a rocket-propelled handcart, 6m is nearly 19ft, 6.6 is ~20.5ft.

That means that an unmodded alphacool top Ultra is basically better than a high-head MD-20 in every way apart from reliability o.Ó

It also means that a single Ultra pumps like 2x 50Zs in series, nearly.

Thats scary for such a small pump with such a small dump, I wonder what the reliability is like...

[Radical_53]

Reliability is ok, as long as you take care of it ;) It doesn't like air bubbles, dirt and it loves to be used with some kind of additive :D Additives do help with the formerly known starting problem, plus it's way smoother and more silent with an additive.

[tw33ter]

Jesus christ on a rocket-propelled handcart, 6m is nearly 19ft, 6.6 is ~20.5ft.

That means that an unmodded alphacool top Ultra is basically better than a high-head MD-20 in every way apart from reliability o.Ó

It also means that a single Ultra pumps like 2x 50Zs in series, nearly.

Thats scary for such a small pump with such a small dump, I wonder what the reliability is like...


What about 2 of them in series? What kind of flow/head do they get?

[nealh]

Reliability is ok, as long as you take care of it ;) It doesn't like air bubbles, dirt and it loves to be used with some kind of additive :D Additives do help with the formerly known starting problem, plus it's way smoother and more silent with an additive.

what additive?..Zerex???

[Praxis1452]

So Alphacool DDC Ultra's data is wrong and it's actually more head?

[Radical_53]

@praxis: Well, it might simply be based on the data with the stock top. Seems as they didn't measure it with the plex top :(

@neal: Yes, some kind of lubricant. Doesn't need much of it, but you can hear the difference immediately as the additive reaches the pump. The difference is nearly like when you decouple a HDD.

[JoeBar]

We'll see :)
Will we...? ;)

[Radical_53]

Bet on it :toast:

Might just be a little tricky to get two of each, but that should be managable. Hope to get my hands on some Radiical tops :D

[JoeBar]

We count on your inside connections... ;)
BTW i would really like a head to head comparison of modded/unmodded alphacool top vs radiical.

[Radical_53]

That was my intention too, right ;) How much can be gained with a top, were are those gains and so on.
Interesting that everyone likes and uses these pumps, but no one has yet thoroughly compared them (at least not with official results or something).

Like when looking at the numbers here, the results are really amazing to me. I think there's still some performance left that you can get out of this little buddy :D

[JoeBar]

I think there's still some performance left that you can get out of this little buddy :D
In my opinion, the answer to this is the radiical top. At least that's what i'll do in the future for my DDC Ultra. No modding for me.
My :2cents:

[Radical_53]

I guess so too, yes. But it would be interesting to see where the differences are. Also, if a modded Alpha top can get close or is still behind...

[nop]

interesting. well...look like you've quite a lot of pending test Radical_53. Radiators and pumps. :D

Thanks in advance for your contribution.:toast:

[JoeBar]

U count on u for answers... :)

[nealh]

@praxis: Well, it might simply be based on the data with the stock top. Seems as they didn't measure it with the plex top :(

@neal: Yes, some kind of lubricant. Doesn't need much of it, but you can hear the difference immediately as the additive reaches the pump. The difference is nearly like when you decouple a HDD.

is there another additive you recommend aside from Zerex?

[creidiki]

What about 2 of them in series? What kind of flow/head do they get?
Apart from efficiency losses because of tubing etc, 2 in series have the same max flow as 1 pump and double the max head.

So you'd be looking at something like 40ft head... o.Ó

[Radical_53]

@neal: I'm using Water Wetter most of the time. Zerex doesn't smell as bad, but I'm not sure of the other differences between the two. Both should do the job well.

@joe: Yes, let's see when that happens. I'll keep you posted if there's anything new.

[nealh]

@neal: I'm using Water Wetter most of the time. Zerex doesn't smell as bad, but I'm not sure of the other differences between the two. Both should do the job well.

@joe: Yes, let's see when that happens. I'll keep you posted if there's anything new.

thanks

[Smalltimer]

Apart from efficiency losses because of tubing etc, 2 in series have the same max flow as 1 pump and double the max head.

So you'd be looking at something like 40ft head... o.Ó
Would two pumps in series create stronger a impingement effect with a storm Rev2 waterblock? Will it help lower temps by reducing flow restrictions within the loop?

[andersson.j]

Finally! No more work for six days!
I'll try to get some testing done but beer always comes first. :toast:

Would two pumps in series create stronger a impingement effect with a storm Rev2 waterblock? Will it help lower temps by reducing flow restrictions within the loop?
Two pumps in series = higher head = higher flow = better performing Storm. It won't reduce flow restrictions but it will overcome them better. You will see lower temps if the increased flow is more positive than the extra heat dump is negative.

[tw33ter]

How well would a loop like this work, or do you need to actually place the pumps one right after the other?

ddc #1 > storm > ddc #2 > mp-1 > res > t-line
would a push/pull config benefit the storm?

vs

ddc #1 > ddc #2 > storm > mp-1 > res > t-line

[Radical_53]

I would place them one right after the other. Pumps can't pull their water and a starving DDC isn't something you'd want to have.

[nealh]

Interestingly I went back to my MCP655 spec..max head of 3.1m, max flow of 1200l/h

Unmodded DDC+ max head 4.7m!!! and max flow of 600l/h...so unmodded this looks realy nice and modded I hope there is not a big drop on max head

This DDC+ is really a better pump than MCP655 since max head is so important..correct...

Crap..I should have bought that 2nd DDC+ when I had the chance and run them in series...

[Thomas FJ]

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas

[nikhsub1]

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas
That could be true at WIDE open flow, it also depends on how much 12v your PSU is supplying. The more restriction you feed the pump (any pump for that matter) the less heat it will dump, it will dump the most heat in wide open mode (no restriction).

[Petra]

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas
Well, if by DDC Ultra you're talking about Alphacool's DDC+ (DDC+/DDC-1+/DDC-2TPMP or whatever the hell you wanna call the red-impellered DDC) that comes bundled with an Alphacool plexi top, then I'm not really surprised. I would expect the increase in flow to come with an increase in power consumption. You could just extrapolate the power consumption values of this graph out a little further (I know that the power consumption is non-linear but it would at least give you a general idea of where things are going): http://www.dangerdenstore.com/files/images/pumps/ddc/rev2/flow_chart_600w.jpg

Edit: Gah, nikhsub1 beat me to it by a minute... :rolleyes:

[nealh]

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas

modded or unmodded

specs say the 10 w has head of 3.7m..18w of 4.7 m...27%

[nealh]

I wish someone could now compare an alphatop DDC+(alphatop modded/unmodded) vs Radiical DDC+

[andersson.j]

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/892/flowchart600w3sh.jpg
That's a very interesting curve! The head is in the same region as my tests, 20 feet = 6.1 meters. I wonder where alphacool got their 4.7 meters from?
But my flow results are still abnormally high even if you add 70% for the top mounted inlet, heck it's even high if you add 100%!

[nealh]

Alphacool specs are for unmodded top

hmm..that is a interesting..this from DD the graph...everyone reports max has 4.7m unmodded......

[andersson.j]

Alphacool specs are for unmodded top
Yes, but I suppose that DD's graph are for unmodded too?

Damn DDCs are confusing!

[Radical_53]

They are, even more than that. Never seen such strange readings as with different DDCs... scores range from no gain in serial to 100% plus... looks like quite some work :(

[nealh]

damn those results Andersson.j..look great..wish I could do that kinda of work..you modded that top in such a way it looks factory done :)

I bought a Radiical top but kinda wish I got an Alphacool top now(that increased head pressure is awesome)...

I would pay for your work in a heartbeat Andersonn.j

[javascripterror]

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/892/flowchart600w3sh.jpg
That's a very interesting curve! The head is in the same region as my tests, 20 feet = 6.1 meters. I wonder where alphacool got their 4.7 meters from?
But my flow results are still abnormally high even if you add 70% for the top mounted inlet, heck it's even high if you add 100%!

Strange days indeed. Laing say the 18W standard pump develops a max delivery rate of 420 L/h at 12 volts and 600 L/h at 13.2 volts. Pump head by the way is 3.7m at 12 volts and 4.7m at 13.2 volts. To get 6m well I cannot even begin to imagine where that comes from.

[nealh]

Strange days indeed. Laing say the 18W standard pump develops a max delivery rate of 420 L/h at 12 volts and 600 L/h at 13.2 volts. Pump head by the way is 3.7m at 12 volts and 4.7m at 13.2 volts. To get 6m well I cannot even begin to imagine where that comes from.


no your spec are on the 10w..420 l/h and 3.7m head press
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/products_id/3414/cPath/5_26_267/laing-pumps/pum-laing-ddc-pump-12v-2-with-2xg1-4--external-thread.html

18w is 600l/h and 4.7m head pressure
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/products_id/3739/cPath/5_26_267/laing-pumps/pum-laing-ddc-pumpe-12v-ddc-1plus.html

[javascripterror]

no your spec are on the 10w..420 l/h and 3.7m head press
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/products_id/3414/cPath/5_26_267/laing-pumps/pum-laing-ddc-pump-12v-2-with-2xg1-4--external-thread.html

18w is 600l/h and 4.7m head pressure
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/products_id/3739/cPath/5_26_267/laing-pumps/pum-laing-ddc-pumpe-12v-ddc-1plus.html

Sorry to burst the bubble but that information is also published on the back of the Alphacool packaging for the DDC 18W pump.

[nealh]

Sorry to burst the bubble but that information is also published on the back of the Alphacool packaging for the DDC 18W pump.

Yeah I was corrected just a bit ago..apparently the 4.7m head pressure at 13.2v

I am sorry...I assumed mistakenly the information reported was clear and correct...

I was wrong sorry for posting my mistake

[Thomas FJ]

That could be true at WIDE open flow, it also depends on how much 12v your PSU is supplying.

That is for wide open flow...
See test setup here (http://h2okoeling.dk/?site=news/&nID=797)

We use a lab PSU to power the pumps...


The more restriction you feed the pump (any pump for that matter) the less heat it will dump, it will dump the most heat in wide open mode (no restriction).
Okay, sounds interesting. Can you explain further?

[Got Chow]

I've searched some DDC/AC top threads but the confusion has me asking this n00bish question...

I'm assuming that using the inlet at the top is better than using the inlet which is right next to the outlet, correct? Any considerable difference in using the inlet which is next to the outlet vs. using the top one? Routing the tubing would be easier in my case if I used the inlet which is adjacent to the outlet, but I can probably work something else out as well if performance is significantly impaired.

I know that all my big aquarium pumps have the inlets perpendicular to the outlets, and the inlet is always at the base of the impeller with the outlets towards the side... So I am assuming this is the way to go, but if it's a miniscule difference i would probably have the inlet and outlet next to each other for a cleaner tubing run. Or I could just say screw it and put my Iwaki 55RLT on the loop. ;) j/k.

[MaGiX]

I've searched some DDC/AC top threads but the confusion has me asking this n00bish question...

I'm assuming that using the inlet at the top is better than using the inlet which is right next to the outlet, correct? Any considerable difference in using the inlet which is next to the outlet vs. using the top one? Routing the tubing would be easier in my case if I used the inlet which is adjacent to the outlet, but I can probably work something else out as well if performance is significantly impaired.

I know that all my big aquarium pumps have the inlets perpendicular to the outlets, and the inlet is always at the base of the impeller with the outlets towards the side... So I am assuming this is the way to go, but if it's a miniscule difference i would probably have the inlet and outlet next to each other for a cleaner tubing run. Or I could just say screw it and put my Iwaki 55RLT on the loop. ;) j/k.

Yes, there is significantly more to gain from using the top inlet over the front, and even more to gain if you widen the inlet in the top (using Alphacool or Watercool DDC top) up to around 10 mm (from where I was not able to measure an additional gain in pressure, that part I have not published yet) or using a Radical Top (have not tested one of those yet.)

At this time, i have only published a test of the DDC in three versions, Basis, Pro and Pro AGB (reservoir model) but DDC+ in the three same configurations is imminent (although at first only in Danish, we are in the process of translating the entire site into English, but don’t expect anything soon.)

But P/Q curves is universal (thanks God for that) so a couple of those you can se here:

DDC Pro (top) Vs DDC Basis (front):

http://www.h2okoeling.dk/images/articles/Laing_DDC_Test_Diagrammer/2_pro_top_vs_basis_stor.jpg

DDC all configs (also the front on the DDC Pro block):

http://www.h2okoeling.dk/images/articles/Laing_DDC_Test_Diagrammer/2_alle_pumper_stor.jpg

DDC, Laing D5, DangerDen CSP-MAG, Eheim 1048, Eheim 600 station (Alphacool.):


http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles/MCP655_test_diagrammer_store/2%20D5%20alle%20pumper.jpg

I do hope that straitens out some of the confusion.

MaGiX

Edit: If someone got a spare Radical top the don’t use, I would love to make a full comparison for all the different tops on the market. I tried to write to the shop in Australia where I have seen them, but got no reply at all. I live in Denmark, so as close to DK as possible thanks :P

[Got Chow]

Thanks for the graphs. I saw that in another thread and it had some good comparison numbers. I did not realize the first graph showed the difference b/w the AlphaCool top with the top inlet vs. the stock DDC. The 2nd graph tells a lot too. I have a 10W DDC with the AC top waiting to be installed. Looks like I will have to use the "top" inlet and drill it out a little bit as well.

Thanks for the clarification and your test results, very helpful.

[ShoNuff]

@MaGiX...any updates on the Alphacool top "Ultra" series testing? What did you think of the dual Watercool top you reviewed?

Keep up the good work. :toast: