Quiet watercooling [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

Syranide

06-24-2006, 02:20 AM

So I've been poking around and my current air cooling is quiet ( http://www.sweclockers.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=548104 ), but I'm certain it won't hold for the future, nor next-gen GPUs, so I've been looking into water cooling and it seems like the next natural step to take.

So reading and reading some more you always end up with some loose ends. To clarify my point, I don't care about temperature, I "only" care about silence (and I mean _silence_), and the same goes for the money, I'd rather spend another 100$ if it would make it quieter.

So, what I've gathered so far is that the ThermoChill PA120.3 would be the best radiator to use for a quiet system ( http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php ), most likely top-mounted and outside to not interfere with the motherboard. (The innovatek radiators are apparently not as good as one would hope, and the Black Ice radiators only perform better with highspeed fans right?)

But with the pump there is still the problem of which to choose, what I've seen there is the HPPS Pump ( http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=HPPSDC&Category_Code=Pump ) and the Laing DDC Pro ( http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/products_id/701/cPath/5_26_267/laing-pumps/laing-ddc-pump-12v-pro:.html ) ... is the Ultra even "better"/quieter perhaps? (Dimensions aren't a problem in my case)

But, I cannot find any good information on those pumps regarding noise... I'm planning on cooling CPU, GPU and NB. So far what I've seen the Laing DDC (Pro or Ultra?) seems to be the best bet... perhaps anyone has some better knowledge on this?

The same goes for cooling the radiator with fans, I've always been a fan (heh) of PAPST and ADDA, but more and more seem to prefer the Nexus... but more seem to prefer the "Sharkoon Silent Eagle" ( http://www.sharkoon.com/enghtml/fans_se.htm ) over the Nexus. And reviews like it, would this perhaps be the better fan (Sharkoon) to use for a quiet system?

As I said earlier, I'd rather go all out now and get it done right, and that means buying the "best" I can find instead of trying to cheat on tubing etc.

All recommendations or comments are welcome.

Regards Andreas

Syranide

06-24-2006, 04:05 AM

Oh, it's going to be "stationary" (the sucker already weighs 30kg)... hehe GEO-Cooling is pretty nice but unfortunately not an option for me ;)

Tryoman

06-24-2006, 05:47 AM

Syranide

06-24-2006, 06:18 AM

I use since a few times Papst fans and I'd never looked as quiet as it.
In fact, I tried Globefan, Adda, but they were quiet just with 5 or 7V but not in 12V
About the pump, I approve your choice. I've the Laing DDC pro and it's very very quiet on silent-blocks.

If you like it, you can use the MORA radiators wich are passive or active , it's as you like. ( http://www.ichbinleise.de/product_info.php?products_id=1257 ). That's right, it's rather large but very performant without fans. May be it's too much for your budget. I propose that's all :D

Good luck :D

Thanks :D

Well, I had something similar in mind at first (Innovateks), but I got adviced not to as they are made from aluminium which will cause corriosion with copper blocks. But apparently this one is all copper pipes which is very nice, and that kind of money is no problem, I'd gladly spend it for a quiet and performing system. But from the looks of it, that one seems to depend on circulation in the room considering the tightly put fins? (Shouldn't have any problem cooling both the CPU and GPU at "acceptable temperatures"?) I'm guessing active would require some large standalone fan or is it perhaps possible to attach smaller fans directly to the fins...

Ok, very well then, the Laing DDC it is ;) Considering the Pro or Ultra they are the very same just that Ultra is meant for more performance? Or would the Ultra do they job better and quieter (if slowed down)?

SiGfever

06-24-2006, 06:31 AM

1) MP-05 SP LE CPU Waterblock
2) MP-1 GPU Water Block
3) Alphacool Laing DDC-Pump 12V Ultra, AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12 Mag Drive Inline 12V Pump or Laing D5 pump
4) PA120.3 rad with (3) Yate Loons or BIPro III rad with (3) Yate Loons
5) 1/2" Tygon R3603 or 7/16" Tygon R-3603 tubing
6) Plastic tube clamps (18) need some spares.
7) 1/2 plastic Tee for "T-line"
8) 1/2 Delrin fill-port
9) Ramsinks for vid ram
10) Your favorite beverage to celebrate your new system!

Mixture: 95% Distilled water, 4.8% VW (Pentosine-blue) antifreeze, 1 cap Water Wetter, 4-5 drops non-alcohol iodine. JMO

qdemn7

06-24-2006, 06:38 AM

GEO-Cooling (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/coolsites/) Looks very nice. So you still getting 11C on your intake?

Tryoman

06-24-2006, 10:31 AM

Syranide : A lot of Mora's user use it on passive form or with 3 or 5 fans at 5V, with this latter fix on the door of the tower. I believe that, fixations are sold with it.
Here are some photograph of this :

http://img489.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc003988hc1uo.jpg

5 fans like cross

http://img489.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc003943oy2rs.jpg

As you can see on this photo, there is enough space for the air flow even if you instal fans :)

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2552/dsc004027my.jpg

:banana:

eXa

06-24-2006, 11:21 AM

id go with SIGfever`s setup. pa120.3 with 3 yates a 5v

i would change the mp-1 block with a mcw60(with ramsinks), you dont need a really restrictive block on your gpu. and mcw would perform just as good.
(you could get a maze-4 too but then you have to buy the ramsinks separately)
and ddc, its less noisy than d5 or 50z.

Syranide

06-24-2006, 12:46 PM

Gah! I can't choose... :confused:

(For those who come late, I'm after silence and not CPU christmas :rolleyes: )

The MO-RA 2 seems to be one kick ass radiator, but somehow I'm still leaning towards the PA120.3 ... unfortunately I can't find any sensible info(reviews on the MO-RA 2, it would've been nice with some performance graphs. Fitting 5 fans on the MO-RA 2 is out of the question seeing that the quiet system is no gone, sure it is still quiet, but beyond what I had in mind... ultimately the MO-RA 2 seems better for my purposes, but wouldn't it cause problems with quiet pumps? As there is _a lot_ of distance to go through, whereas the PA120.3 is very short, and apparently very very streamlined for quiet fans. I'm gonna have to think a while on this, gonna try to get some more info on the MO-RA 2.

As for the Laing DDC, it's between the Ultra and Pro, as far as I've understood the Ultra is a performing better, but according to some users noisier... I'm not sure they refer to it being slowed down to the same speed as the Pro though... does anyone have any insight on this and perhaps know if the Ultra is quieter when slowed down? (Seeing that it costs about 20$ more)
Either way I'm thinking of going for the tank extension too (mounted on top) as it could be a welcome help, and also because if it isn't I can just remove it and run the pump as normal without any trouble. :)

(Hehe sorry if I'm dragging it out and asking similar questions but I really want to get it right, and silent ;))

In regards to SIGfevers setup, the thing is that in my thinking I'd rather go with one *none*... ;) "Which is the whole plan", minimum amount of fans and noise, even if it means putting the CPU at 45-50C, of course if it requires putting 3 very silent fans on top I'd go for it of course, but just to put in perspective, today I'm cooling the CPU and GPU with 2 14dB ADDA 120mm fans mounted inside the case running at about 6V.

Thanks for all your replies! I will reread all of this later to see what blocks you have recommended too etc.

eXa

06-24-2006, 12:53 PM

Syranide

06-24-2006, 01:05 PM

Haha, sorry guys I just have to post this here.
Note that it has been run through google cache and translation (the page is down)

First of all it is not only one utterly useless review... but also a great place to find good comments... err... about 100 pages of e.g. "cheap viagra" or "carisoprodol 350mg" (wth is that site? :S)

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient-menuext&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F66%2E249%2E93%2E104%2Fsearch%3Fsour ceid%3Dnavclient%2Dmenuext%26q%3Dcache%3Ahttp%253A %2F%2Fwww%2Eliquidcooled%2Ede%2Fmodules%2Ephp%253F name%253DMReviews%2526op%253Dshow%2526rid%253D5

Syranide

06-24-2006, 01:07 PM

oh man.. mora. it will kill your flow! and its alu. please dont!

abot the ddc. the 18w isnt really more noisy than the 10w, its just higher pitched, so people think its noisier! just pack it in foam. your hdd will be more noisy anyway!

Regarding the MORA, well, yes it is... but only the fins, I thought the same thing first too, but the pipes are copper... but sure alu doesn't transfer heat as good but "size does matter" ;) Both are very nice I think. But yeah, my main problem is that I think the MORA will kill the silent pump...

/me is off slapping google around some more

EDIT: well higher pitch tends to be percieved as noisier (and the worse kind of noise), and no I can't hear the disks, they are packed tightly in HDD enclosings, and that inside 1cm of noise dampening inside the case. ;)

eXa

06-24-2006, 01:16 PM

yeah. i know, higher pitched do tend to be percieved as noisier. just didnt know how to write percieved...

just do about the same with your pump and its no problem at all

qdemn7

06-24-2006, 05:47 PM

thats summer temp, during winter drops to -2c if gets really cold
Awesome! Wish we had that down here. :)

andersson.j

06-25-2006, 12:14 AM

Radiator
How many meters of pipe is in that MORA thing? 10+? It has to be like a brick wall for flow no matter which pump you use! I vote for ThermoChill.

Pump
I have some 18w (Ultra) and 10w (Pro) pumps and Ultra isn't much louder. If you undervolted an Ultra so it performs on par with the Pro I suppose it would be quieter. Don't buy the top tank, it just performs worse! Alphacools top inlet has a very narrow diameter but it's easy to bore it out. Radiicals top performs better than alphacools because it's already got big ID channels, there's both a plexi and a delrin version.

Fancontroller
No fan (or very few) is quiet enough on 12V. And if you go for the Ultra instead of Pro you might need something to slow the pump down too. There's nothing better than a T-balancer to vary fan and pump speeds, I'd go for the new T-bal bigNG.

SiGfevers advices look good, but here's a few alternatives:
1) MP-05 SP LE CPU Waterblock or Swiftech Storm.
2) MP-1 GPU Water Block, Silverprop Fusion, Swiftech MCW60 or Danger Den Maze4.
3) Alphacool Laing DDC-Pump 12V Ultra or Pro (50Z and D5 can be very loud.)
4) PA120.3 rad with (3) Go for Swiftech MCR or Cooltek instead if BIP. I don't know if Sharkoon beats Yates/Nexus but it's possible.
5) 1/2" Tygon R3603 or 7/16" Tygon R-3603 tubing
6) Plastic tube clamps (18) need some spares. I prefer zip ties.
7) 1/2 plastic Tee for "T-line"
8) 1/2 Delrin fill-port
9) Ramsinks for vid ram, preferably Swiftech MC14.
10) Your favorite beverage to celebrate your new system!

Btw. I'm mx over at Sweclockers. ;)

andersson.j

06-25-2006, 12:49 AM

Check the Guide To WaterCooling and Leak Testing - ALL New WaterCooler's Read Before Posting! (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331). Look closely at section 3b. ;)

Syranide

06-25-2006, 01:53 AM

Thank you andersson (oh mx, thanks for your replies over there btw, really useful), and everyone else of course.

Yepp, I've been using Zalman FanMate 2 for my fans atm but I've decided to probably go for the T-balancer bigNG, so that is a go then ;)

Just for fun, regarding the MORA 2, I counted about 30 bends, which would equal to about 60 lengths of pipes, each ~40cm long, which totals ~24m of pipes? (Double checks, double checks again) :slap: ... I had no idea it was that long... I would agree that it would most likely suffocate my pump ;)

The PA120.3 it is for certain then, and seeing its reputation, I have hard seeing that it won't get the job done... which I know it will.

I'm most likely buying the DDC Ultra then (or to be exact Alphacool Laing DDC-1 Plus T Pump 18W, which would be the same but with the stock top I presume), exchange the top and run it as slow as possible...

And the Radiical top seems very promising indeed, so most certainly one of those too.

I'm not sure yet which fan I will buy, depending on what they cost I might perhaps try both and post the results from my superman hearing test. (You can never have too many fans lying around :D)

No tank (or reservoir) and only a fillport instead? 1/2" Tygon I guess, or is 3/8" better for quiet solutions? (Apparently 1/2" is otherwise the best performing, as andersson pointed out from some test)
Gonna look around for the blocks some day too, and I'm betting yours are excellent choices :)

Oh btw, it just reminded me that someone also used PAPST as me, the only reason why I stopped using them and went to ADDA was because for some reason, all of my 120mm PAPST had this quiet scraping noise (even when new) whereas ADDA didn't and seemed to perform the equally.

So huge thanks for all your help and replies! :clap:

Just saw your reply andersson, yepp I've looked through it quickly but must've missed 3b, going to look through of all of them thoroughly later, hehe and that was pretty much what my little hunch against the MORA, first of all, it's huge for a small pump (even for a big)... and secondly... it is said to be built for being passive but yet doesn't seem to be built for natural heat convection? But instead as the article points out it is built for high-flow fans, which doesn't seem very passive to me ;).

:banana: /me is a happy banana

andersson.j

06-25-2006, 05:13 AM

Sounds like you're building the perfect silent system! And if you go with the bigNG you can convert it to a performance beast with a few clicks!

No tank (or reservoir) and only a fillport instead? 1/2" Tygon I guess, or is 3/8" better for quiet solutions? (Apparently 1/2" is otherwise the best performing, as andersson pointed out from some test)
Gonna look around for the blocks some day too, and I'm betting yours are excellent choices :)
Some reservoirs doesn't affect flow much but the alphacool top tank seems to be one of the bad ones. If you like the look of a tank go with it, but nothing beats a big enough T-connection in performance.

Here's a translation from (disgusting) inch to more logical millimeters:
1/2" = 12.7mm
7/16" = 11.1mm
3/8" = 9.5mm
This is how I understood Cathars posts over at procooling: 12.7mm ID tubing is the biggest hence least restrictive alternative. But since we use such small barbs with less than 10mm ID the tube to barb transition gets kinda turbulent and therefore restrictive. 9.5mm ID tubing has about the same ID as the barbs and the transition is a lot less restrictive. But since 9.5mm is so small the narrow tubing itself restricts the flow. Inbetween 12.7 and 9.5mm we have the perfect size, 11.1mm 7/16". It's kinda close to the ID of the barbs but still big enough to not restrict flow.

We can't make the ID of G1/4 (13,1 mm OD) barbs much bigger than 9.7mm because then there would be no walls left. Some manufacturers, like ThermoChill are smart enough use larger barbs. Then we can use barbs with 12.7mm ID which suits 12.7mm ID tubing better.

Syranide

06-25-2006, 12:14 PM

Sounds like you're building the perfect silent system! And if you go with the bigNG you can convert it to a performance beast with a few clicks!

Well that is what I hope to do (and why I am asking so many questions :p:), and you and everyone else here has helped far on the way ;)

Some reservoirs doesn't affect flow much but the alphacool top tank seems to be one of the bad ones. If you like the look of a tank go with it, but nothing beats a big enough T-connection in performance.

Here's a translation from (disgusting) inch to more logical millimeters:
1/2" = 12.7mm
7/16" = 11.1mm
3/8" = 9.5mm
This is how I understood Cathars posts over at procooling: 12.7mm ID tubing is the biggest hence least restrictive alternative. But since we use such small barbs with less than 10mm ID the tube to barb transition gets kinda turbulent and therefore restrictive. 9.5mm ID tubing has about the same ID as the barbs and the transition is a lot less restrictive. But since 9.5mm is so small the narrow tubing itself restricts the flow. Inbetween 12.7 and 9.5mm we have the perfect size, 11.1mm 7/16". It's kinda close to the ID of the barbs but still big enough to not restrict flow.

We can't make the ID of G1/4 (13,1 mm OD) barbs much bigger than 9.7mm because then there would be no walls left. Some manufacturers, like ThermoChill are smart enough use larger barbs. Then we can use barbs with 12.7mm ID which suits 12.7mm ID tubing better.

I'll go with just the fillport then, seeing that my plan is to keep this system for some time (with perhaps only minor modifications) and not poke around with it every week. ("Worst case:" the reservoir can be installed later...)

So if I understand you correctly... bigger is better, but it depends on what components you use, using 1/2" ID tubing for e.g. blocks that has 3/8" barbs is bad since it would cause turbulence at the barb/inlet... so... 1/2" ID tubing is preferable if all components use 1/2" barbs, but if they don't 7/16" ID tubing would be better? ...

... For me this means, since the pump and rad (will) use 1/2" barbs, and I'm in the process of choosing my blocks... I will choose blocks with 1/2" barbs (such as those you recommended) and 1/2" ID tubing and it will be happy banana all over. ;) (The system will also be brass/copper only.)

Btw, while reading a little about the Radiical top for the pump I noticed that one setup he had, used a 10mm inlet and an 8mm outlet, is that to accelerate the water at the outlet? (It would just be stupid for me to do something like this?)

Embedding the pump in materials for dampening the noise shouldn't be any problem I presume as the pump should be "self-cooled" by the water? (As long as the water doesn't heat beyond the threshold of course)

Praxis1452

06-25-2006, 12:27 PM

Now since you want silence> performance why not get something like the Zalman Reserator, add your own pump and waterblocks. I think that'd work...

andersson.j

06-25-2006, 02:26 PM

Now since you want silence> performance why not get something like the Zalman Reserator, add your own pump and waterblocks. I think that'd work...
That would be the easiest and cheapest alternative. (No fun though!)
Since the reserator is made of aluminum you can't upgrade to any (good) blocks since they're all made out of copper. Well of course it's possible to mix metals with proper amounts of Zerex, but the loop still wouldn't last for too long before it starts to corrode. And the reserator isn't capable of handling much heat so don't expect low temps. I belive that three low speed fans and a low speed DDC can match the sound of the reserators pump but with a lot better performance. (You do pay for it though!) Maybe reserator two will be better? Copper tubing or gold plating or something?

So if I understand you correctly... bigger is better, but it depends on what components you use, using 1/2" ID tubing for e.g. blocks that has 3/8" barbs is bad since it would cause turbulence at the barb/inlet... so... 1/2" ID tubing is preferable if all components use 1/2" barbs, but if they don't 7/16" ID tubing would be better? ...
I think you understood me correctly. But just to be sure, keep in mind that barbs with G1/2 threads doesn't have 12.7mm Outer Diameter like you would think but 21mm! I don't know how they meassure it but it's very confusing. Same thing goes for G1/4 = 13.1mm and G3/8 = 16.6mm. Vcore.dk has a great fittingsguide (http://www.vcore.dk/fittingsguide.htm) which explains it closer (in danish).

So...
G3/8 barbs, go with 1/2" ID tubing.
G1/4 barbs, go with 7/16" ID tubing.

Most blocks use G1/4 which has an OD of 13.1mm, because of this we can't use barbs with bigger ID than 10mm on most blocks. Hence 7/16"/11.1mm ID tubing is the best performing tubing on most blocks.

Btw, while reading a little about the Radiical top for the pump I noticed that one setup he had, used a 10mm inlet and an 8mm outlet, is that to accelerate the water at the outlet? (It would just be stupid for me to do something like this?)
Most pumps has a large inlet and a small outlet. I don't know why but since that's the way the engineers want it I guess that's the best way!
I modified (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1536109#post1536109) my alphacool DDC tops today. I bored out the 7mm inlet to 12mm. I gained 11% max flow and lost 11% max head. Since DDCs has such high head and low flow I think it was a good trade. The outlet is still 7mm and I won't alter it because I belive I'd loose a lot of head if I did. So it might be a good idéa to use a smaller outlet barb if the channel before the barb on the radiicals isn't already narrow enough. Barbs are cheap, I'd get a few different sizes and try!

Embedding the pump in materials for dampening the noise shouldn't be any problem I presume as the pump should be "self-cooled" by the water? (As long as the water doesn't heat beyond the threshold of course)
DDCs tend to get a bit warm underneath. If you insulate the pump all the heat would end up in the water so you would get a higher heat dump. But since we're talking about the DDC here it's only a few watts, nothing to worry about.

Radical_53

06-25-2006, 11:41 PM

Syranide

06-26-2006, 07:49 AM

If you are into real silence, first "must have" would be the PA 120.3 with shroud. For the fans, go for Yates all the way. You won't find 25mm fans with a better performace to rpm ratio than these.
Pump, well. DDC or DDC+ @8V or so, your choice. Both are really silent, very easy to kill vibration on both. For the top, as suggested Radiical or a modded Alpha top would do the trick.

Nothing to add for the blocks suggested, maybe if you're somewhere around Europe you might want to look at Eddy's EK waterblocks for your graphics card (also his barbs are really nice) or a Nexxxos XP block for your CPU.

That is pretty much what I am currently at, after much help from the people in this forum it has gone from apparently bad to really good ;)
Good thing reminding me about the shroud, I had actually forgotten about those, definately one of those. Yates was my primary choice for fans too, but I noticed the Sharkloon fans and some claim that they are better (silent) than the Yates, so while I am at it I might try them for the sake of experimentation/completeness ;)

And in regards to the reserator, as far as I've heard it is a really a pretty good product for being virtually "plug-an-play", but at the same time, it doesn't seem very much for the future since it already seems on the edge on performance/heat, and frankly is quite bulky. (And I've seen very similar constructions or more precisly copies of it that is meant for custom pumps etc)

I think you understood me correctly. But just to be sure, keep in mind that barbs with G1/2 threads doesn't have 12.7mm Outer Diameter like you would think but 21mm! I don't know how they meassure it but it's very confusing. Same thing goes for G1/4 = 13.1mm and G3/8 = 16.6mm. Vcore.dk has a great fittingsguide which explains it closer (in danish).

So...
G3/8 barbs, go with 1/2" ID tubing.
G1/4 barbs, go with 7/16" ID tubing.

Most blocks use G1/4 which has an OD of 13.1mm, because of this we can't use barbs with bigger ID than 10mm on most blocks. Hence 7/16"/11.1mm ID tubing is the best performing tubing on most blocks.

Hehe this tubing talk is making me slightly confused atm I must admit, sorry if for being a little slow ;) I couldn't make sense out of the tubing on the danish site, contained good information, but the inability to understand the details of what they truly said, the question remained just to be on the safe side. :stick:

But to put it easy and practical, let's just say I buy the Swiftech Storm, which uses 1/2" (not G1/2, stated as 1/4" NPSM) barbs and go with the DDC+ and Radiical top that also use 1/2" barbs, and the PA120.3 uses 3/8" BSP, this would mean should I go with 1/2" ID tubing? Or...?

I see you did the infamous widening of the alphacool top, very nicely done :)

Radical_53

06-26-2006, 10:02 AM

You mean the Sharkoon silent golfball? :D They aren't bad, but performance ain't as good as with the Yates. Also, good Yates are even more silent than the Sharkoon.

Syranide

06-26-2006, 11:49 AM

You mean the Sharkoon silent golfball? :D They aren't bad, but performance ain't as good as with the Yates. Also, good Yates are even more silent than the Sharkoon.

Tigerwoods all the way, ah really, the thing was this that some reviews claimed otherwise but it seemed kinda funny... but then it is settled, only Yates ;)
Thanks

Radical_53

06-26-2006, 11:58 AM

Yeah, well ;) Some reviews even claimed SilenX to be the next best innovation after beer in bottles... but they aren't :D

andersson.j

06-26-2006, 01:01 PM

Hehe this tubing talk is making me slightly confused atm I must admit, sorry if for being a little slow ;) I couldn't make sense out of the tubing on the danish site, contained good information, but the inability to understand the details of what they truly said, the question remained just to be on the safe side. :stick:

But to put it easy and practical, let's just say I buy the Swiftech Storm, which uses 1/2" (not G1/2, stated as 1/4" NPSM) barbs and go with the DDC+ and Radiical top that also use 1/2" barbs, and the PA120.3 uses 3/8" BSP, this would mean should I go with 1/2" ID tubing? Or...?
Haha, been there myself! It's hard to understand before you order the wrong barbs and learn from your mistakes. It's hard to explain, especially in english! :)

Storm use 1/4 NPSM barbs which is the same thing as G1/4 or 1/4 BSPP except NPSM has 19 threads per inch(?) and G and BSPP has 18 threads per inch. All three has the same diameter across the threads, 13.1mm. Since the OD is 13.1mm the ID can't be 1/2"(12.7mm) there just isn't enough material left for threads. Swiftech and everyone else write that the barbs are 1/2" but that's not completly true, it means that it fits 1/2" ID tubing not that the barbs ID is 1/2". And sometimes 1/2" barbs just means that the barb has 1/2" OD. The actual ID of 1/2" 1/4 NPSM, G1/4 and 1/4 BSPP is below 10mm, which makes 7/16"(11.1mm) ID tubing the best alternative. You probably won't notice any performance difference between 7/16" and 1/2" ID tubing, the main advantage with 7/16" ID ist that it has a smaller OD and you can bend it tighter.

I see you did the infamous widening of the alphacool top, very nicely done :)
Thx! :toast:

RekLess

06-26-2006, 01:19 PM

I also enjoy a "whisper-quiet" watercooling set-up and was always a Yate "fan" so to speak. However, I found a 120mm fan from AC that claimed lower noise at higher rpm's - yeah right.

Well, for $7ea and sleeved 3-pin connectors that go great with my Sunbeam controller, I decided to give em a try. They are great - actually noticeably more quiet than the Yates on my PA120.2.

http://www.svc.com/af12025.html

voigts

06-26-2006, 10:35 PM

I got into watercooling for silence as well. If you REALLY want silent, then you want a passive rad. I have been using a small car rad now for almost a year with no fans whatsoever on it. I was very lucky and got a new copper core MG Metro rad on ebay for $35 shipped. I swear it was practically made to be used for a computer. I had it mounted to the side of my midtower case that I used which worked very well. I now have it mounted on top of a custom wood case I have built. It is a non-restrictive effective way to cool with no fans. As long as you get a decent small car radiator, it works great and can be side mounted onto a case.

For case fans, the scythe sflex fans have more CFM and are quieter than even yate loons. I have both and the scythe fans put out noticeably more air at the same db as the yate loons.

As far as pumps go, I bought both a DDC 10w and a DDC 18w and did a side by side sound comparison. I also had a D5 to compare to. The DDC 10w is about as quiet as you can possibly get, and the 18w has only a slightly higher pitch and it is only slightly louder-my educated guess is about 3-4db or so. It is just louder enough to notice it, but that is all. You want to get a DDC for silence and then put it on some good foam to absorb any vibration.

Syranide

06-26-2006, 11:44 PM

Haha, been there myself! It's hard to understand before you order the wrong barbs and learn from your mistakes. It's hard to explain, especially in english! :)

That's a comfort :D (Yeah english adds a little confusion too ;))

Storm use 1/4 NPSM barbs which is the same thing as G1/4 or 1/4 BSPP except NPSM has 19 threads per inch(?) and G and BSPP has 18 threads per inch. All three has the same diameter across the threads, 13.1mm. Since the OD is 13.1mm the ID can't be 1/2"(12.7mm) there just isn't enough material left for threads. Swiftech and everyone else write that the barbs are 1/2" but that's not completly true, it means that it fits 1/2" ID tubing not that the barbs ID is 1/2". And sometimes 1/2" barbs just means that the barb has 1/2" OD. The actual ID of 1/2" 1/4 NPSM, G1/4 and 1/4 BSPP is below 10mm, which makes 7/16"(11.1mm) ID tubing the best alternative. You probably won't notice any performance difference between 7/16" and 1/2" ID tubing, the main advantage with 7/16" ID ist that it has a smaller OD and you can bend it tighter.

Ah, now it makes more sense to me what you said earlier, so 7/16" tubing it is then. I still wouldn't say that I understand all of these measurements (for sure), but it is a lot clearer now and hopefully I won't order wrong ones now at least ;) ... and I bet it will all be a lot clearer when the parts are on my desktop :)

I got into watercooling for silence as well. If you REALLY want silent, then you want a passive rad. I have been using a small car rad now for almost a year with no fans whatsoever on it. I was very lucky and got a new copper core MG Metro rad on ebay for $35 shipped. I swear it was practically made to be used for a computer. I had it mounted to the side of my midtower case that I used which worked very well. I now have it mounted on top of a custom wood case I have built. It is a non-restrictive effective way to cool with no fans. As long as you get a decent small car radiator, it works great and can be side mounted onto a case.

Yeah that was my initial though too (something totally silent), and I must agree with you that one of those would most likely be the best and I've read a lot people doing just that which has turned out perfectly, but due to the warm nature of my room and that I want to keep it a little "future proof" too I think the PA120.3 is the better alternative for me (of course it might be possible to add fans to your rad too, but seeing this is my first setup I'd rather stick a little more to the "safe/known" side), and I will only run my PA120.3 with as many fans as needed. (Note that I will be cooling CPU, NB and the GPU, and moderns GPUs tend to become really hot, so it adds up) But there is always room for future improvements :)

As far as pumps go, I bought both a DDC 10w and a DDC 18w and did a side by side sound comparison. I also had a D5 to compare to. The DDC 10w is about as quiet as you can possibly get, and the 18w has only a slightly higher pitch and it is only slightly louder-my educated guess is about 3-4db or so. It is just louder enough to notice it, but that is all. You want to get a DDC for silence and then put it on some good foam to absorb any vibration.

Ah great, just what someone said just earlier in the thread, so then it is double confirmed ;). Btw, yesterday when just surfing around watercooling products I noticed a strange pump, can't remember the name, but it was some black box with some crystal ("found only in very expensive clocks") and it just slapped all pumps in noise and performance ... ... ... for 30$ ... yee- ... -aah right.

I will most likely embed the pump in some layers of dampening and downvolt it as much "as possible/needed", so probably the DDC+ (aka Ultra), especially since the dampning I'm using seems killer at cancelling high pitch noises.

Radical_53 Yeah, well Some reviews even claimed SilenX to be the next best innovation after beer in bottles... but they aren't

... Is that a verified claim or just your speculations that they aren't? ;) :fact:

I also enjoy a "whisper-quiet" watercooling set-up and was always a Yate "fan" so to speak. However, I found a 120mm fan from AC that claimed lower noise at higher rpm's - yeah right.

Well, for $7ea and sleeved 3-pin connectors that go great with my Sunbeam controller, I decided to give em a try. They are great - actually noticeably more quiet than the Yates on my PA120.2.

http://www.svc.com/af12025.html

For case fans, the scythe sflex fans have more CFM and are quieter than even yate loons. I have both and the scythe fans put out noticeably more air at the same db as the yate loons.

Hehe, and here my Arctic Cooling fobia comes telling me "no, it can't be, the results must've been faked!" ;) But if they are available where I buy my stuff I might perhaps throw one in and try.

/me is patiently waiting for:

You mean the Arctic Silent high RPM jet turbine? They aren't bad, but performance ain't as good as with the Yates. Also, good Yates has developed AI and taunt the Arctic Silents on command.
:D

Radical_53

06-27-2006, 12:00 AM

voigts

06-27-2006, 12:14 AM

You won't need or want to undervolt the DDC. It is quiet in its own right at 12v.

Syranide

06-27-2006, 12:39 AM

Well, the Scythe might have more cfm on the packaging, but the don't give you the same temps as the Yates. On my PA, they scored ~1K worse than Loons at the same speed.

And no, that plus the thing about the SilenX is not speculation but based on real-world tests.
I did a compare with all fans running at the same speed, and the Yates came out first place... I might put the whole thing together as soon as I think it's "done" :)

Oh, see, didn't need to be very patient for that to come ;)
Leaning more and more, and even more towards just buying only the Yates once again then and not trying the others ;)

(Btw if you look again I was referring to SilenX best after beer bottles ;))

Radical_53

06-27-2006, 12:45 AM

Yeah, well. Honestly I didn't believe the Yates were that good in the first place. They're dead cheap, are silent so far and the were supposed to have the best performance also? Strange. All those big other companies with their expensive, fancy fans that can't beat them? So I got myself a couple of fans and tested them on the PA. Well, Yates came in first.
I'm still looking around to find something else that might beat them, but I don't expect to see that in the near future. SilenX didn't work better (and is way noisier), Sharkoon wasn't better nor Scythe.

Syranide

06-27-2006, 05:29 AM

Marci

06-27-2006, 06:17 AM

If silence is the issue, and the heatload isn't anything dramatic, a PA160 with a Yate at 5v is a hell of a lot quieter than a PA120.3 with 3x Yates at 5v, and would still perform within 8 deg C...

Syranide

06-27-2006, 06:31 AM

If silence is the issue, and the heatload isn't anything dramatic, a PA160 with a Yate at 5v is a hell of a lot quieter than a Yate with 3x Nexus at 5v, and would still perform within 8 deg C...

Well, yeah of course, but I don't intend to run with 3 fans unless I have to, so the other spot(s) are just "reserved for the future" and might help cool a little by just beeing there and beeing copper ;)

But yes of course, I'm not saying this rig can't be made quieter, but being me is also not building something and trashing it next month, so I intend to at least keep most of this rig for some time, and having some available power isn't that bad considering it not a too great cost in silence. But surely, the PA160 would be easier to fit and more silent.

Radical_53

06-27-2006, 06:48 AM

38mm fans would be nice considering performance, but honestly I haven't found a single one with bearings/motor even close to the noise of a 25mm thick Yate.

nop

06-27-2006, 06:58 AM

Totally agree with Radical_53 on Yate. I used to run 3 of Scythes on my PA 120.3 and they were noisy...not lound but still noisy. With Yate, ther're very very quiet.

Overconfidence

06-27-2006, 09:02 AM

Depending on how much you're looking to overclock, a dual rad -may- be enough for you, and cuts one fan out of the noise.

Aso, from my understanding, the DDC ultra and pro are both pretty much identical, with one running at a higher speed, and consequently a higher wattage. The noise will be louder and higher pitched due to more RPM. If you slow down the DDC ultra, it -should- behave like the DDC pro, but I'm sure you could get the pro down to a lower speed. Not 100% on this though.

Make sure you get the DDC in a nice acoustic environment and have some foam - mine is in a metal box and is fairly amplified, but free floating it's quieter than my yates.

Overconfidence

06-27-2006, 09:06 AM

Hmm, while we are still talking about Yate Loons and fans I noticed yesterday that they sell Yate Loon 38mm 12V... however they are louder (put push lots more at higher RPM), but would these perform better than the normal 25mm when slowed down (or are they still loud perhaps?) ... or should I just go with the 25mm ;)
38mm fans have higher static pressure and consequently are better when you have something restrictive to push/pull air through (i.e. conventional heatercore). They're going to be louder than a 25mm fan for the same CFM floating in free air, but will be much better for air restrictions. On silent rads (PA series) there isn't too much advantage for a 38mm fan because the 25mm will be quieter and there is negligible restriction in those radiators.

Syranide

06-27-2006, 09:41 AM

Ah okey, overconfidence, thanks :)

eXa

06-28-2006, 01:41 PM

oh btw. i find my heatercore beeing noisy itselves. i have 1 yate cooling it and its way noisier than my other yate. im gonna switch out the core with a pro3. just got to find one with an ok price...

Shpoon

06-28-2006, 01:52 PM

About tubing...if you have a mix of G1/4" and G3/8" would it be possible to just use 7/16" ID, or would it be better for a uniform 1/2"?

Also...I have yet to find a good answer....what are the "best" (loosly used) fans that are quiet, and capable of cooling a TC PA? I wasthinking of undervolted Scythe S-Flex, because the Yate Loons seem to have horribly low CFM ratings...

ReD.SkY

06-28-2006, 02:02 PM

i use 7/16

the G1/4 and G3/8 is only the thread size, not the barb size.

eXa

06-28-2006, 02:03 PM

s-flex is 1600rpm right? so if you want to undervolt them a yate would be better! i think a D12SM-12 would be a better choise than s-flex if yoy need a bit more rpm than 1300...

oh btw... manufactors lie! yate loon is one of few wich are pretty close to reality!

Shpoon

06-28-2006, 05:44 PM

i use 7/16

the G1/4 and G3/8 is only the thread size, not the barb size.

But sometimes the 1/2" barbs are 1/2" ID, and some are OD. I wans't sure if it's even possible to get the 1/2" OD barbs in 7/16" tubing?

s-flex is 1600rpm right? so if you want to undervolt them a yate would be better! i think a D12SM-12 would be a better choise than s-flex if yoy need a bit more rpm than 1300...

oh btw... manufactors lie! yate loon is one of few wich are pretty close to reality!

Where to buy though? I can get Sythes in Canada...

Okda

06-28-2006, 07:17 PM

u can buy them fropm Petra, check my sig casue they ship to Canda and WorldWide

Shpoon

06-28-2006, 07:21 PM

u can buy them fropm Petra, check my sig casue they ship to Canda and WorldWide

No, they only have the SL (Low CFM) variant. I've never seen the SM, that's why I was going to get a scythe (1600RPM), dunno.