Preparing for an E6600, memory questions.

[Torin]

So, like everyone and their dog, I too am preparing to jump on the Intel bandwagon when Conroe is released. I'm looking at the E6600, not attempting to break any world records, just wanting some good performance for a couple years. My 754 setup has gone the way of the dodo, so I'm preparing for Conroe with as much research as my brain can handle.

So far I'm waiting on the release of the 965 boards and other 975X boards to see what will be the best option, but I've been mulling over the DDR2 with no real conclusion.

I know that at stock, The Conroe chips will use DDR2 533. I'm aiming at roughly 3.8Ghz or so on water, which means I need to run around 425 FSB. I've seen lately the C3 Corsair sticks running easily at these speeds, even Cas 3, but I'm not willing to throw down $480 on a set of memory.

In the $200-$300 price range, what should I be looking at in order to hit these speeds? I'd like to run Cas 3, but I know in that price range it may not be possible. So, what's the next best option?

[Vric]

About any PC-6400 (DDR800) will do 850Mhz.

Some OCZ Platinum could give you what you want with fairly "low" price. (compared to Corsair)

[Owen1978]

I am considering some G.Skill 2GB DDR2 ZX PC2-6400

[debackerl]

I know that at stock, The Conroe chips will use DDR2 533.
Isn't it FSB1033 (266 Mhz)?

You seems to recommend DDR2-800, but I suppose you mean dual channel no? Excuse me, but I am new to dual channel stuff.

Is there benchmarks to compare single channel (mem divider at 1:2) and dual channel (1:1)?

[Torin]

I'm new to DDR2, so I'm still in the guessing stage... but from what I think I know about DDR2 and Intel chipsets is that the FSB is quad-pumped (meaning ram running at 266Mhz will have an FSB of 1066Mhz.)and DDR that is rated to run at 266Mhz is rated as PC4200. So for a stock Conroe, you'll need PC4200 for stock speeds, which will use a 1066Mhz FSB.

Again, this could all be dead wrong for all I know, which is why I'm posting this. :)

[CompGeek]

yea, thats about it.

you can go up to 400x9 without exceeding DDR2-800 specs :)

[sierra_bound]

Most DDR2 will run at 400MHz easily. The question becomes timings. The better RAM will run 3-3-3 or even 3-2-2 (if you have Micron Fat Body - no longer available) at those speeds. This assumes you're using the 533MHz memory strap (1:1). If you plan to use the 667MHz strap (4:5), you'll need something a little better because 400FSB would mean the memory is running at 500MHz or DDR2-1000.

533 and 667 are the two memory straps you'll most likely be using. When you get your Conroe system put together, you'll quickly figure out why.

[Torin]

I'd expect to go 1:1, as the ran that hits those 500Mhz speeds is rather pricey.

So, if most DDR2 can hit around 400Mhz, what should I look for to hit the 420-430Mhz I need to reach ~3.8-3.9Ghz? DDR2-800 or will a certain model of slower ram suffice?

[sierra_bound]

Running at 3.8GHz will probably be more dependant on the cooling and the quality of the CPU. Someone I'm familiar with recently got an E6700 ES. It did only 3.1GHz on air. It was only after he went to sub-zero cooling that the CPU started flying.

Regarding memory, you don't need to spend a lot to run at 420-430. A friend of mine bought some budget OCZ DDR2 (2X1GB) for $149 at Fry's. He's gotten that RAM up to 492 @ 4-4-4 with a modified Bad Axe board. I think he was using 2.35v for VDimm.

[Ad1tya]

Go for the GSkill DDR2-800, 2GBHZ.

Best VFM RAM, and it performs like a b1tch! :D.

Always in Intel, try to run the CPU and RAM 1:1, running the RAM anything faster than the CPU is pretty much useless.
Unless ofcourse, your plan to get the RD600 based chipset :D.

[g.l.amour]

thx for all the memory explanations, it is starting to get clear even for me now :p

[sierra_bound]

It's actually not hard. Conroe has a default speed of 266MHz (DDR2-533). The BIOS allows you to change the chipset's memory strap. In other words, you're just setting the memory speed in relation to Conroe's default speed. So 533/533 = 1:1 ratio. 533/667 = 4:5 ratio, etc. You'll likely hear the term memory ratio used more than strap these days.

[Torin]

It's actually not hard. Conroe has a default speed of 266MHz (DDR2-533). The BIOS allows you to change the chipset's memory strap. In other words, you're just setting the memory speed in relation to Conroe's default speed. So 533/533 = 1:1 ratio. 533/667 = 4:5 ratio, etc. You'll likely hear the term memory ratio used more than strap these days.
I'd venture to say a lot of people call it memory ratio because they are coming from AMD and that's the terminology. I know that's my case, I've never had an Intel system, so I've got a bit to get used to. Looking forward to Conroe though. Good to know I really don't -need- the $480 2GB kit though.

[majestik]

Someone I'm familiar with recently got an E6700 ES. It did only 3.1GHz on air. It was only after he went to sub-zero cooling that the CPU started flying.
That is rather alarming, a measily 16% oc! Would be a real bummer if retail conroes behave like that.

[sierra_bound]

Another member here did 3.2GHz on air with an E6700. That's still fast when you consider it will stomp just about everything else at that speed.

I know people have seen 3.8-4GHz on air. But keep in mind that some benchers go through a lot of chips before finding the golden CPU. BTW, I'm not knocking that practice. Wish I could test a lot of chips. But it's something to be aware of.

[Torin]

Is there any reason to run the memory faster than the CPU, i.e. a 3:5 or 4:5 divider? (or whatever the equivalent memory strap is)

[Vric]

I think I have seen somewhere the Conroe max bandwidth was 8.5GB/sec, which is the speed of DDR-667. Anything higher would be only for overclock. That would also mean you won't want to be under DDR-667Mhz at anytime. (since it would be slower than the maximum "fastest" bw of the cpu.)

Still waiting to see real world bench at different speed.. all that is only theory and those with Core 2 Duo CPU don't supply that kind of info yet...

[sierra_bound]

Is there any reason to run the memory faster than the CPU, i.e. a 3:5 or 4:5 divider? (or whatever the equivalent memory strap is)
4:5 would give you a boost in bandwidth, assuming your memory can handle the speed. 3:5, 2:3 or 1:2 are all bad options for Conroe because you would have to run at lower FSB speeds which would in turn affect your CPU speed.

[g.l.amour]

well i come from an era where running the memory faster than the cpu fsb hardly improved any real world benchmark, it would just up the synthetics some. does it make alot of difference on the current cpu's? my bankaccount certainly would like the 1:1 as i wouldn't need formula one grade memory :p

[sierra_bound]

I'm guessing the majority of Conroe users will choose 1:1. If you look at the Conroe testing threads here, almost everyone is running either 1:1 or 4:5.

[Torin]

I guess the ultimate question on everyone's minds now is what CPU speeds we can expect out of the retail versions of Conroe. Going to be a crapshoot for me, because I'm pulling out my credit card on July 23rd, and hoping I didn't go overkill on the memory for my cooling.

[automagic]

Another member here did 3.2GHz on air with an E6700. . But keep in mind that some benchers go through a lot of chips before finding the golden CPU. . Wish I could test a lot of chips..


I would be more than happy for one of these guys to sell me one of their "rejects" :woot:

[charlie]

The new Mushkin XP2-8000 great...will be in my Conroe rig!

[Haltech]

im sure it is Charlie.. but i know Mushkin hooks you up too with freebies! :toast:

[kiwi]

You are not going to run 1.7V 24/7, are you? :p:

[ScottFern]

I just got my Corsair 6400C3 kit 2 days ago from Newegg. I did go overboard but I hope it gives me an edge in OCing a conroe in July. It better after $453!!

[debackerl]

It's actually not hard. Conroe has a default speed of 266MHz (DDR2-533). The BIOS allows you to change the chipset's memory strap. In other words, you're just setting the memory speed in relation to Conroe's default speed. So 533/533 = 1:1 ratio. 533/667 = 4:5 ratio, etc. You'll likely hear the term memory ratio used more than strap these days.

DDR2-533... in dual right? My trick is to say that since it uses a 1066FSB, it has a bandwith of 8528MB/s. Since a single DDR2-533 has a bandwidth of 4267MB/s (PC4200), you need two of them.

And thanks, previously I throught that 1:2 meant that the memory was twice slower, but if I understood you right it is just the opposite.

So to reach 400Mhz, DUAL DDR2-533 or 667 should do the trick right? I prefer to be sure, because I never read "dual" anywhere.

[sierra_bound]

1066FSB is 266.7 quad-pumped. For the purposes of adjusting the ratio in the BIOS, think 533. You'll understand after you get your board. ;) The ratio is CPU/DRAM. So running 1:2 means the memory frequency is twice that of the FSB.

DDR means dual data rate, so no need to say dual DDR2.

[Jumba]

I just got myself a set of the new Mushkin XP2-5300 (Elpida-based on Brainpower PCBs). It's rated cas 3-3-3-10 at DDR2-667, but will happily scale up to DDR2-1000 at 5-5-5-x (with a sweet spot around 4-4-4-12 at +- DDR2-900). Worth taking a look at for the price. Hint: Check Fugger's review of it on the front page of xs. ;)

[tdenton1138]

I too am in the same boat here.

My question would be: Is there a good reason to buy the ram today rather than in mid-July? Are prices expected to go up for some reason? Its normally been my experience that prices go down over time so in a month I would expect better/cheaper ram availability...?

Is this somehow not right?

[Jumba]

I stand to be corrected but I have heard that DDR2 is set to go UP in price in the coming months.

[StealthyFish]

Isn't it FSB1033 (266 Mhz)?

You seems to recommend DDR2-800, but I suppose you mean dual channel no? Excuse me, but I am new to dual channel stuff.

Is there benchmarks to compare single channel (mem divider at 1:2) and dual channel (1:1)?


yes, download Sisoft Sandra benchmarking. Install it, and run the memory test. Run it with single stick and compare results with dual channel RAM. It's a visual bar graph that displays your scores along with the label of the exact number score ( in Mb per second read and write speeds). Generally, you should see that your single stick RAM will run approximately 3000Mb/s slower than dual channel RAM. lower data transfer = less speed.

[Vric]

Just ordered 2x1gb OCZ PC6400 Platinum XTC (4-5-4-15)
Warranty up to 2.2V and at this vdim, they should drop at 4-4-4-8.. (I hope)
Review I have seen usually goes up to 950Mhz at 5-5-5-10.

Wouldn't be able to test them before Conroe arrive :(

[tdenton1138]

I stand to be corrected but I have heard that DDR2 is set to go UP in price in the coming months.

It seems that I have "heard" this too somewhere, but I have no reliable info on why it would be happening or if its even true.

Supply shortage due to AM2 coming out? Hard to imagine...

Anyone in the 'industry' know the truth?

[jbizzler]

get the TWIN2x2048-6400C4, especially if your going to pair it with an nForce 500, cause it'll auto-overclock.