View Full Version : North Water Xtreme Xchangers
Eastcoasthandle
06-01-2006, 02:48 AM
review found here (http://www.modthebox.com/review413_2.shtml)
review 2 (http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/NorthWater_Xchangers/index2.shtml)
Has anyone added this passive heatsink to their loop? Besides the fact that its alu (and need to add anti corrosion agent or inhibitor) has anyone found success with this? Would it be better to have all cooper version?
creidiki
06-01-2006, 02:53 AM
I'll consider even reading the reviews when there's a copper version.
[XC]Atomicpineapple
06-01-2006, 02:54 AM
Interesting, Possibly useful for people who need to add extra heat removing capacity to their loop but dont want to/cant mod the case for a bigger rad. As copper conducts heat better and doesnt lead to corrosion problems it'd be better, but obv more expensive.
copper version would be nice, but a lot heavier too
andersson.j
06-01-2006, 12:31 PM
I'd like to see a copper version too.
Maybe with more and thinner fins and a fan, kinda like zalmans aircoolers but with a thick copper tube instead of a heatpipe? Just a thought...
Eastcoasthandle
06-02-2006, 03:16 AM
Maybe in time they will develop a copper version as the idea appears sound.
clokker
06-02-2006, 03:36 AM
I'm sorry, but that has to be the most useless piece of bling I've seen in a while.
I'm surprised it's not marketed by Thermaltake.
There is no earthly way that running your coolant through a thick-walled/thick-finned 6" piece of aluminum is going to impact your temps.
The "internal ribbing" looks like they just ran a tapered pipe thread tap a short ways into each end.
Besides, for $44 you could buy a second rad which may/may not help but at least has some surface area to work with.
Jochenp
06-02-2006, 09:30 AM
Like you can't make this thing yourself with some old heatsinks and copper tubing + (thermal) epoxy.
I'm even considering making it just for the kicks of it.
Jochenp
jaguarking11
06-02-2006, 02:42 PM
I saw those developed. They originate from oil coolers on atv's.
Its a good design. Just the wrong metal. For the price they could have a copper insert and keep costs down while avoiding corrosion.
And no epoxying some copper to a heatsink isnt the same.
Cool idea. Pardon the pun. It makes due with wasted case flow thus increasing eficiency. Nice work.
clokker
06-03-2006, 05:08 AM
I saw those developed. They originate from oil coolers on atv's.
Its a good design...
Maybe, but what is good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.
The oil temp in a combustion engine is way higher than ambient and since the effectiveness of a heat exchanger rises with the delta a device like this might make a difference...on an ATV.
The water in our loops is only slightly hotter than ambient so the same sort of device would have a proportionally marginal effect- undetectable, I'd guess.
Rippthrough
06-03-2006, 07:07 AM
In which case you would probably be a lot better of running through some copper tube with a few cheap heatsinks attached. Or even a big lenght of the industrial extruded stuff you can buy in metre lengths, just drill a hole down the middle and add a couple of barbs.
JoeBar
06-03-2006, 09:08 AM
I'll consider even reading the reviews when there's a copper version.
Ditto!
Eastcoasthandle
06-03-2006, 09:12 AM
wow, ignorance is bliss, the 2 reviews suggest that it does lower temps!!! So why am I reading posts that in theory it doesn't lower temps???
Have you tested this product yourself and have come to this conclusion, no. Have you based your opinion on facts, no. Can you even refute the reviews...no...
Personally, I would prefer a copper version not to just lower temps but avoid the hassle of having alu in my setup. But I wouldn't venture to say it doesn't work as is.
jaguarking11
06-03-2006, 09:16 AM
What im saying is that the idea isnt bad. And making it oput of solid copper isnt necesary. They could easily put a copper insert in that thing to eliminate corrosion problems. Hell I could do it myself if I wanted that thing.
You guys are being extremsits. Sometimes its not about raw performance. Its about giving it style a bit. its not necesarily a bad product.
[XC] MarioMaster
06-03-2006, 09:45 AM
i agree with clocker here, it's pretty much useless, for that much you could get a rad and stick it somewhere because if your temps change that much from that piece of junk, a rad would help much more. plus i really don't think it looks cool, it looks bulky and adds clutter to your case and it's just another spot to leak
Jochenp
06-03-2006, 10:18 AM
Looks like it helped temps 'cause they're already stretching a 120mm rad to it's limits.
creidiki
06-03-2006, 10:20 AM
How long did they let the system load for before measuring load temps? With that much solid metal in the loop, the time it takes for temps to level out is considerably longer.
JoeBar
06-03-2006, 10:42 AM
What do u expect? They all in all recommended this product... :p:
D_o_S
06-03-2006, 10:51 AM
I think there is someone from North Water on the forums...
clokker
06-03-2006, 11:27 AM
What im saying is that the idea isnt bad. And making it oput of solid copper isnt necesary. They could easily put a copper insert in that thing to eliminate corrosion problems. Hell I could do it myself if I wanted that thing.
Which would make the "performance" even worse as you'd be adding yet another interface for the heat transfer to breech.
You guys are being extremsits. Sometimes its not about raw performance. Its about giving it style a bit. its not necesarily a bad product.
It IS a bad product if it's being touted as an aid to system cooling.
If it's marketed as a dress up item (like a cold cathode or something), then fine.
dastt
06-03-2006, 11:42 AM
frozencpu.com had a sale on this a while ago anf they open heartedly amitted that they were a mistake to carry in the first place, a copper version would more than likely be way to expensive to produce and have people buy.
I'd rather have one of these
only £40
http://www.xspc.biz/res500.php
jaguarking11
06-03-2006, 08:32 PM
It IS a bad product if it's being touted as an aid to system cooling.
If it's marketed as a dress up item (like a cold cathode or something), then fine.
While thats true. A good machine shop that is capable of manufacturing those could manufacture a copper insert thats precise enough so heat wont have any trouble breaching.
jaguarking11
06-03-2006, 08:33 PM
I'd rather have one of these
only £40
http://www.xspc.biz/res500.php
Id rather not. If I want passive I could do mutch better than that with copper pipes on my own.
Sneaky
06-03-2006, 08:55 PM
useless IMO
Amiteriver
06-04-2006, 06:40 AM
How long did they let the system load for before measuring load temps? With that much solid metal in the loop, the time it takes for temps to level out is considerably longer.
Given a closed case ?? just seems like the metal will assume the case temps and heat the water to the case temps, as oposed to the water binng cooled by cooler outside air.
creidiki
06-04-2006, 06:55 AM
Well, no. I mean, My internal case temps are always 1-2c below h2o temps, and that's after all the mosfet sinks & whatnot have dumped their load. If you had them sitting right behind the rad, they would get air thats only like 1-2c above ambient.
But yes, for most people the advantages would be... dubious.
Amiteriver
06-04-2006, 09:04 AM
Yep if you had them right before the water went back to the rad & or Res It might give a bigger boost that water would be pretty warm. Even better if you could get a fan from the side right on them. All seems a bit much for what you might get.
clokker
06-04-2006, 01:37 PM
Yep if you had them right before the water went back to the rad & or Res It might give a bigger boost that water would be pretty warm.
The water returning to the rad is only a degree or three warmer than the water leaving the rad, hardly a big enough differential for the "xtreme xchanger" to take advantage of.
The premise of a cooler such as this flawed not because of the material (although aluminum certainly can introduce unwanted corrosion issues) or it's passive nature- rather it's the fact that the ratio of coolant that actually contacts the surface to the volume passing through is so poor.
Look at it this way: if just running your coolant through a large metal tube (be it finned or no, aluminum or copper) was beneficial, then jaguarking11's hard lined system should run significantly cooler than the same setup with plastic tubing.
After all, he has exponentially greater length of metal for heat to convect out of than the 6" xtreme xchanger has.
I haven't seen him make such a claim and would be skeptical if he had.
If a large bore tube was an efficient way to extract heat from the coolant passing through it we'd all be using the oil coolers sold at PepBoys instead of flat tube rads which are more expensive to produce/buy.
But we aren't, are we?
jaguarking11
06-04-2006, 08:42 PM
Firstly my hard lined loop was not meant as a rad replacement. And while its true that my loop has a nice amount of metal to air contact, it is also true that I dont make any claims on the benefits. AGain it was a choice based on other factors and not something meant for such claims.
However. those heat exchangers have a higher surface to air area than my loop does for the fact that they are fined and my tubes are not. Surface to water area is poor but its far from being useless.
IMHO it makes good use of stagnant air in the case and if at the very least it should help under load conditions when the loop becomes more efficient.
epion2985
06-04-2006, 09:13 PM
What a load of crap. I hope they waited untill they warmed up before talking the coolant temperatures. But honestly for the money get yourself a bigger or better radiator, this is the biggest load of crap I have seen yet. Only reason the reviews look good is either they were done wrong, they got paid off or the radiator was at its bare limits, or maybe all of the above.
Nice bling effect though :rolleyes: