Creative answeres its X-Fi crackling problems

[Pinnacle]

Snap, Crackle, Pop, Kellogg's Rice Krispies :D

Apparently, all of those that exhibited the symptoms were high-spec gaming systems. Isolating them has taken a bit of time mostly because although they all seemed be based on NForce4 chipsets, they didn’t have much else in common

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31780

[nn_step]

Basically they are blaming nVidia.. when with almost no other Sound card does this happen...

[Bar81]

I'm trying to figure out who's at fault. Does this happen only on nvidia systems or AMD, Intel and Uli chipsets. If only nvidia then there's the problem. If not only nvidia then Creative is the problem. It's that simple.

[Cooper]

Our tests have proved that in many cases these problems can be remedied with a simple BIOS update but this did not resolve the issues for all customers experiencing the issues. We therefore continued to investigate and have made a significant finding. In some systems we have resolved the issues by setting the motherboards to dual-channel memory mode to improve the memory bandwidth and response. Below you can see the configuration of two of the systems that we initially experienced issues with and subsequently resolved by setting to dual-channel memory mode.

With these two machines (http://forums.creative.com/attachments/creativelabs/soundblaster/61926/1/xfitable.JPG) we ran tests with Battlefield 2, which is the title with the most reported issues. We found that as long as the system memory was configured in dual-channel mode, the Sound Blaster X-Fi card did not crackle. When memory was not dual-channel, crackling could occur in the game and when crackling was occurring, the Sound Blaster X-Fi service requests on the PCI bus were being held off for long periods.

The way to invoke dual-channel memory mode differs by machine. For system 1, installing 1 GB memory DIMMs in memory slots 1 and 2 invoked dual-channel mode, whereas for system 2, installing 1 GB memory DIMMs in memory slots 1 and 3 invoked dual-channel mode.

We recommend checking your motherboard's manual to ensure that memory is configured for dual-channel.

I say "Noob Attack" :D

[J-Mag]

I'm trying to figure out who's at fault. Does this happen only on nvidia systems or AMD, Intel and Uli chipsets. If only nvidia then there's the problem. If not only nvidia then Creative is the problem. It's that simple.

I saw a thread on creative forums where Adaptec PCI SCSI cards were causing the issue as well...

Edit: on NON nf4 and nf4 Mobos...

[Starscream]

There is no real proof that its only Nvidia chipsets (Nforce4) that have this problem with Xi Fi.

Dont forget that alot of retail AMD socket 939 mobos use Nforce 4 chipsets.
I think Creative knows more about this problem then they are willing to admit.

Because what can creative do? Admit that its their problem or admit that they have no idea whats causing it?

wich would force them to refund (in one way or another)all customers that dished out alot of money for their Xi-Fi.
So whats the logical thing a company does when they themselves are at blame or have no idea? blame it on the other guy.

[Cobalt]

It may be a problem with the card but not due to architecture or a driver fault. Maybe its just too powerful and needs to be fed too cuh information. That seems to be the problem that it is too advanced for the supporting hardware. Maybe even moving to a PCie x4 interface would resolve some problems (well maybe not but I want to fill that slot on my mobo)

[[XC] Lead Head]

the PCI bus is shared, so from what i gather from Cooper's post is that the system is holding off the X-FIs data requests for long periods of time, so it is being starved for data. I am pretty sure if they made a PCI-E version, it would solve most of the problems

[J-Mag]

the PCI bus is shared, so from what i gather from Cooper's post is that the system is holding off the X-FIs data requests for long periods of time, so it is being starved for data. I am pretty sure if they made a PCI-E version, it would solve most of the problems

Creative said that there are significant issues trying to run a soundcard off the PCI-E bus, I cannot remember the specifics, but I know this is the case.

[Sloppy]

I had this problem on my Ultra-D with an X-FI Xtreme Music when playing BF2. For the life of me I couldn't figure it out, eventually I fixed it. I think I changed pci slots....

[MaxxxRacer]

I dont know how many of you guys know how the PCI bus actually makes calls to the system, but ir I remember my A+ book correctly, it says that devices on the PCI bus make calls directly to the system memory, totaly bypassing the OS (obviously you still need drivers to make it work with the OS).

With this information, lets think about it. You have a bandwidth crippled machine which needs all that it can get for the game, and then you have this sound card pinging the memory all of the time. I would guess that the system is not giving the X-fi memory acess priority (not an OS problem) and thus the crackling ensues.

The same issue occurs when the Adaptec card is isntalled. A simple SCSI raid 0 will oversturate the PCI bus (by alot actually), and thus the X-fi will starve for I/O requests.

So in short.. X-fi cards are I/O and/or bandwidth hogs and when you starve them they f' up. Therefore the problem is two fold.

1. Creative didnt design the X-fi to properly work in PCI bus saturated situations, and in lower performance machiens (try running an X-fi on an old PC133 based machine and see what happens)
2. The PCI bus is showing its old age, and cant even keep up with a Sound card + anything.

Its time to banish the PCI slots and put in some more 1x and 4x PCIE slots that are actaully acessible! And for creative to get off their asses and design a X-Fi PCIE card.

[Cooper]

Creative said that there are significant issues trying to run a soundcard off the PCI-E bus, I cannot remember the specifics, but I know this is the case.

PCI-e has bigger latency, which ain`t good for sound card

[Starscream]

one of the reasons to make the Xi-Fi PCI only was purely out of profit.

it wouldnt amaze me if Creative made their next soundcard only a lil better then the Xi-Fi and would make it PCI-e only.
As PCI slots get rarer and rarer on the new AM2 and Intel boards (yeha ofc there are boards like the MSI one that stil has 3 PCI slots).

so people that upgrade are likely to get a board wich has non or only 1 PCI slot.
Then they could b forced to ditch their PCI soundcard and upgrade to a new slightly better PCI-e soundcard.

So i can think that one of the reason to not also design a PCI-e version of the Xi-fi can be so people wont be able to use it all to long.


edit:
yeah there could be issues with soundcards on PCI-e but sooner or later they will b forced to resolve those issues as PCi is disapearing.
Creative chose to do it rather later thens ooner.

[Cybercat]

PCI-e has bigger latency, which ain`t good for sound card
well they're going to have to figure out some way to make it work, PCI slots aren't going to be around forever.

[slavearm]

The issue with PCI-e is that Creative needs to redisign a bus controller that they have been using for years. Their lab attempt basically added a translation from their current controller, and guess what??? there was latency and sounded like crap. Hopefully someone comes up with a good PCIEx4 card soon.

[MaxxxRacer]

no need for a 4x card... that is for raid.. 1x is WAY more bandwidth than the entire PCI bus gives so 1x is all that is required.

[Greenhead]

so if i was looking to buy one today. should i wait, cause creative has one around the corner, or should i just buy one.

[Nanometer]

Happends on Intel chipsets too.

[Starscream]

so if i was looking to buy one today. should i wait, cause creative has one around the corner, or should i just buy one.



tbh i bought an Audigy 4 a while ago.
According to some people owning both the Xi-Fi isnt alot better.
that and the audigy 4 i have was fecking cheap Oem for 30 euro.
cheapest Xi-fi was some 100 euro.

[spy2520]

Digidesign has already manufactured pci-e sound cards, if thats what you want to call them. they are what i would say is a different level than pretty much all creative products. and way more expensive, i dont think they've actually released any yet but they are out for pre-order, so i've heard.

[MaxxxRacer]

lol spy.. you REALLY cant call a product created by the Pro Tools guys a "sound card" Its soo much more.

Check out the link if u want to know what spy and I are talking about.

http://www.digidesign.com/products/hd/systems/core.cfm

[nn_step]

lol spy.. you REALLY cant call a product created by the Pro Tools guys a "sound card" Its soo much more.

Check out the link if u want to know what spy and I are talking about.

http://www.digidesign.com/products/hd/systems/core.cfm
now that is some next level audio

[Cooper]

I`ll say it`s way beyond
$8K is totaly nuts for home sound card :D

[MaxxxRacer]

again, its not really a sound card. Its digitial signal processing. Its what they use when they need to edit and mix (though less of the mixing side) music after it has been recorded.

Pro Tools is essentially soundforge on more drugs than you can imagine.

AND FYI, a FULL on ProTools rig (48 tracks with multiple add in cards) can cost upwards of 250,000 dollars..