charging SS w/ Propane.

[Bergo]

I've never used propane as a refrigerant before, but since I'm not EPA cert. it's all I could get on short order (unit needs to be done thursday, lol) Directed ot those of you who have used it before, what should the aproximate static charge be, or rather, where is a good starting point to begin testing, i"m using 2m of BC5 captube to start (.028) Suggestions are appreciated, otherwise trial and error prevailes yet again, lol.

as a isde note, all safety precautions will be taken when working with a flamable gas. Propane is dangerous and should not be used innapropriatly, I am usiong an un-modified regulator which has been leak tested and the unit itself has been purged, evac'd, purged again and evac'd for 3 hours with Aargon.

2nd Q' big difference doing a liquid vs. a vapor charge? I've seen people use a BBQ tank both right side up and upside down?

[Carlz0r]

Static charge should be around 90 psi is what I was told. As far as I know, you gas charge propane.

[bh2k]

100 Psi static was fine for me when I played with it.

[wdrzal]

just charge vapor to tank pessure in the low side port, then start compressor and charge for 15 sec. close valve for 2 min to let equilize. keep repeating ths process untill the evap gets cold. you will first see water droplets form on the suction line. as it gets colder it will turn to frost.
from ther you will need to apply load for final tunning.

[martinjon666]

:) use a digi thermo, when temps drop stop and wait, add more stop and wait, keep an eye on the pressure's. my best with r290 is -52c no load and not mounted, i am sure there is better, but what can you do? r290 isn't too bad as long as you have leak tested and pressure tested i am sure you are fine.

Jon

[boshuter]

Mine ends up at a little over 70psi static, best temp is -50.8c unloaded.

[martinjon666]

static also depends on abient temps, within the last few eeks we went from freezing at night to 50 at night and it was 83 today. pressure is relative to ambient temps.

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

static also depends on abient temps, within the last few eeks we went from freezing at night to 50 at night and it was 83 today. pressure is relative to ambient temps.

Must be around me then. Make sure the leak test is all good. Don't want to go boom. Also 134 is every were and no lic. req. to get it if that is your "only opt."
GL on it.

[Bergo]

yea, suppose if I had purchased a can tap I could have got 134a from computer case cleaner, lol

[Bergo]

just wanted to check with you guys, I have a propane regulator here from a local hardware store, would it be suitable for charging? (with the appropriate fittings to go to a shrade valve) I have a flare to shrade all made up for it, but i"m not sure if it's designed to handle only a certain pressure or something, will it let air into the line at all? not familiar w/ how a BBQ works :P

http://www.seocc.net/Images/pics/regulator.JPG

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Kill the reg go direct tank. Will work beter for you.

[Bergo]

yea, i"m pretty sure these work like a blow-off-vlave for a turbo eh? they'll vent gas if pressure is too high? is there any possibility of this regulator letting air into the system? again, I know nothing about BBQ, lol

I'll try to hit up home depot and canuk tire tomorrow and find something more suitable :|

[wdrzal]

you don't use a regulator.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

No they are your standard diaphragm Valve system that close off as pressure increases (Think of it like a TXV only without a sensing bulb and the lack of pressure on the bbq side is opening force) In this aplication it is simply noise and a hindrince. Go to Ronas and buy a 1/4th Flare to Female pipe and unscrew the tank part from the regulater and bolt on the SAE Flare to NPT unit to the tank connecter with standerd yellow gass tape. I'll hunt down the thread and show ya.

Found it, it is the one on the far right.

[Bergo]

thanks wdrzal and xeon, thats kinda what I thought, lol.

I'll have to modify the setup a lil' bit, shouldn't be hard at all.

[Revv23]

you look here bergo?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46213&page=2

Thanks for the bump xeon ;)

[wdrzal]

simple way no brazinng

[Revv23]

nice walt, where did you get that flare->propane hose adapter?

[wdrzal]

nice walt, where did you get that flare->propane hose adapter?


thats made with a left hand thread propane tank adapter x 3/8" sae flare. then I just took a 3/8" flare nut put it on a 3/8" stem on the schrader valve and flared it

you can also get those adapters x 1/4" sae flare. then use 1/4 flare nut and 1/4" stem on the schrader valve. I just had that sitting on my desk so I made it up and took a pic.

those adapters can be purchased at any gas or welding supply.

[Bergo]

hmm, i"ll have ot look for that fitting somewhere, I've never come across one like that yet, I sjut brazed a spare shrade valve to a female flare fitting and it screwed right into a standard BBQ hose, but since I have to do away with the regulator i"ll find some other method. or try to find that fitting walt used.

[Carlz0r]

I picked up one of these (http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444327 9357&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517513&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517526&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=1408474396669492&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396669492&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1147791226703) from canadian tire. Worked perfect.

[wdrzal]

you can unscrew the regualtor from the tank connector, the connector will probably have a 1/4"npt (pipe thread). just get a brass 1/4" npt sleeve and a brass fitting that is 1/4"npt x 1/4"sae flare. then scew them togeather. use a little pipe sealant on the tapered pipe threads.

[Bergo]

worked well, got 'er charged to 90psi static, running IO get 200psi high -3psi low using 2m of bc5 cap tube. temps on my crappy little multimeter show -37. I have a UEI DT200, but it's totally busted, so if I get that fixed I'll know the actual temp, lol
thanks for the help guys.

[runmc]

You can buy r134 at a local auto parts.

[Bergo]

BP of 134a is -26.5, R290 is -42.1, -26.5 isn't cold enough ;)

anyt refrigerant purchased at an autoparts store would have acme fitting though, correct? means a new manifold, or adapters, but it's possible.

[martinjon666]

Adapters are 9$ at walmart, but trust me r134a sucks at load.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Use a Mixture of R-134a and R-290 55%-45% mass weight (This will mimic R-22 )

[Thrilla]

Old thread revival :D

Having never used a propane tank before(only the green camping ones)... I have no idea weather this benz-o-matic torch will fit or not:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7563/dsc000403hr.jpg
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/2991/dsc000418xx.jpg

I can actually make a head for it and reuse the torch later :D
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6056/dsc000423zq.jpg

[Bergo]

AFAIK they're not compatible.

I used bunch of spareparts i had laying around in combination with a hose from a barbeque (minus the regulator) to get propane in my SS

[martinjon666]

those torches are cheap, cut it up and make a decent adapter. :)

[wdrzal]

the thread on the torch is 1/8 npt get a brass or copper sleeve and braze a shrader valve on to that. Then you can remove it without destroying the torch.

[Thrilla]

Anyone have experiences with blue propane bottles? How pure are they? Can they be used in a SS directly?
http://images.canadiantire.ca/media/images/WeldingSoldering/Torches/0587542_450_CC_35807.jpg

The torch
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5669/dsc00057ax3.jpg

Finished up the torch mod, 150psi static off a green camping bottle, room temp 28'C
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9682/dsc00055ud0.jpg

[GunnerMan]

I use the blue propane bottles for my SS. It has been working fine for a while now. What I did to make the correct fitting is I took the toch head and cut it of on a cut-off wheel so no threads or anything was left. Then I took a 1/4 schraeder valve and brazed it in the hole. If you look at it if you try and use exisitng threasding for something it wont work well because the torch uses a pinhole to discharge propane for flame. You could drill the hole out but I found this to be easy for me.

[SexyMF]

The blue propane bottles for use with the torches are over 99% pure. I trust this figure based on the temperatures obtained in relation to the PT chart, and the fact that somebody here a while back emailed the manufacturer and asked.

You will need a setup where you are able to vacuum the charging line first. ie A T join on the charging line.

[AliG]

Just wondering, wouldn't it be dangerous to charge with propane considering IT'S FLAMMABLE?

[slavic1705]

Just wondering, wouldn't it be dangerous to charge with propane considering IT'S FLAMMABLE?

That is a can of worms that has been opened around here more than once. The short answer is yes however you use so little does it really matter? It’s up to the individual to decide if they want to take the risk. Personally I don’t do it.

[killermiller]

The torch
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5669/dsc00057ax3.jpg


Not to shabby. That looks pretty good.

[AliG]

That is a can of worms that has been opened around here more than once. The short answer is yes however you use so little does it really matter? It’s up to the individual to decide if they want to take the risk. Personally I don’t do it.
just making sure you phase experts don't go blowing yourselves up...at least not without me joining the fun (ali happens to be from Iran, it is in me blood):D :ROTF:

[Xeon th MG Pony]

That is a can of worms that has been opened around here more than once. The short answer is yes however you use so little does it really matter? It’s up to the individual to decide if they want to take the risk. Personally I don’t do it.


Could be but cooncidering ALL refrigerant is flammible once in a system it is a moot point

[killermiller]

I don't think you have to worry about it unless you are smoking and charging your system or something cool like that.

[AliG]

I don't think you have to worry about it unless you are smoking and charging your system or something cool like that.
hehe, I can just imagine one of my Iranian cousins fooling around with a hooka (bong essentially) then decides to mess with some propane at the same time