4gigs getting to work on xpsp2 32bit...possible? [Archive]

Think

05-08-2006, 09:34 PM

How?

It shows up in my bios but windows xp pro sp2 only shows 2G. Any tweak settings for this problem? I know it's the operating system problem but just wondering.

[cTx]Philosophy

05-08-2006, 10:02 PM

Id like to know this one as well since Ive never ran 4 gigs yet :)

Think

05-08-2006, 10:04 PM

I don't think it is but they don't call this place xtreme for nothing. I put in all four but it won't work. Not that any application would really take advantage of it anyway.

Der_KHAN

05-08-2006, 10:11 PM

you need to enable pae - (physical address extension) in windows and i believe your mainboards bios has to support memory remapping. without that you will be limited to 3gigs

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/pae_os.mspx

bachus_anonym

05-08-2006, 10:21 PM

Is your all 4GB showing up during POST (4194394KB)? Also, ENABLE an option in BIOS called Memory Hole - yes, DFI NF4 has it. To add to it, WinXP 32-bit SP2 will only see about 3.2GB at the most.

EnJoY

05-08-2006, 10:21 PM

you need to enable pae - (physical address extension) in windows and i believe your mainboards bios has to support memory remapping, which the dfi doesn't afaik

The DFI does, can't remember the actual name of the option, but it's there. Something with the word "fix" in it. As far as I know though there is no way to have 32bit windows use more than 3gb.

(edit: bachus got the name of the bios option.)

Think

05-09-2006, 03:24 AM

I'm using the Asus P5WDG2-WS( work station ). Intel based chipset (975X)

How do you enable PAE? Read the article but it seems to explain PAE but not how to implement it? Or did I miss it?

nn_step

05-09-2006, 03:32 AM

if I remember correctly Windows XP SP2 only supports 3.6GB of Ram but being limited to 2GB seems odd...

Think

05-09-2006, 03:59 AM

Does switching to 64bit windows xp solve this problem or is it also hardware related?

Der_KHAN

05-09-2006, 04:15 AM

to enable pae add "/pae" or "/3GB" to your boot.ini file

x64 will give you access to all the 4gb of ram without any tweaks.To add to it, WinXP 32-bit SP2 will only see about 3.2GB at the most.but thats what memory remapping is for. to close the memory hole at ~3.5-4.0GB

Think

05-09-2006, 04:27 AM

so

in my boot.ini, the last line is multi.........................="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin

then I just add

/pae

below that?

[XC] itznfb

05-09-2006, 04:33 AM

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx

Think

05-09-2006, 05:11 AM

Order

05-09-2006, 05:40 AM

XP64 will solve your problem.

[XC] itznfb

05-09-2006, 05:43 AM

or windows 2000 if you don't want to bother with xp64 drivers. W2K supports 4gb of ram natively

Order

05-09-2006, 05:56 AM

Windows XP claims that it does, too.
I'm not sure 2k will allow the whole amount.

Call me Ugly

05-09-2006, 05:57 AM

I've been there.

Look for an option along the lines of "Memory Hole for PCI MMIO" or a variance therein including "Remap". Set to enable for remap.

Add the /PAE switch after that, its no go without the remap.

After that I was able to detect all 4gb in windows. /3GB and /PAE gave me no performance at all ever. Dropped my 3dmark05 score by 1000 points, no joke.

IMO you should bench, find and enable remap, bench, add the /PAE switch, bench, add the /3GB switch, bench. Thinking that performance is just gonna be better after windows detects all 4gb is wrong. Even after the /3GB extension I doubt that will be acessable by any game.

If memory serves I sold the extra 2gb within a month, totally not worth it and indeed harmful to perfomance in every way I was able to gauge it.

Ugly

Der_KHAN

05-09-2006, 06:05 AM

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP

Professional" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin /PAE /3GB

This is what I did. Still shows up at 2GB in device manager though. My bios does show 4gbuuh, i think you can only use either /pae or /3gb, but not both simultaneously. if you are not 100% sure that you have apps that take advantage of more than 2gb of ram you will be better of with just /pae

Call me Ugly

05-09-2006, 06:06 AM

or windows 2000 if you don't want to bother with xp64 drivers. W2K supports 4gb of ram natively

I did all my testing on 2k Advanced Server (awsome OS btw). No version of w2k is native 4gb support, even Advanced Server needed the switches. For w2k pro the /3GB and /PAE switches aren't even supported.

Oh sorry for the double post.

Ugly

EDIT: And use Task Manager / Performance to tell how much windows can detect, not device manager or System.

[XC] itznfb

05-09-2006, 06:30 AM

Think

05-09-2006, 08:59 AM

the only platform that needs the pae switch is 2k data center, which allows it to utilize greater than 16gig of ram. w2k pro, as and dc have the 3gb switch "pre-installed" into teh registry. you need to edit the switch to the pae switch to allow more than 16gig of ram/ as described in memory support document i posted above.

Can't find this switch in the registry. All that link states is by placing /pae in boot.ini it will initiate.

I've been there.

Look for an option along the lines of "Memory Hole for PCI MMIO" or a variance therein including "Remap". Set to enable for remap.

Add the /PAE switch after that, its no go without the remap.

Where do I look and how to enable?

bachus_anonym

05-09-2006, 10:34 AM

You do not need any additional switches for 32-bit WinXP SP2 to see max it can see (3.0-3.2GB). But there is no way around to make it map full 4GB. This screenshot (http://www.clockmehigh.com/ddr/PDC2G4000ELK/330x10=3300MHz_DDR550_634301T_4DIMM_SPi32M_32bit.p ng) shows how 4GB is recognized in 32-bit WinXP SP2 and this one (http://www.clockmehigh.com/ddr/PDC2G4000ELK/336x10=3360MHz_DDR550_634301T_4DIMM_SPi32M.png) how it looks in 64-bit WinXP. Both OSs have only standard switches applied - /noexecute and /fastdetect.

Call me Ugly

05-09-2006, 05:54 PM

Where do I look and how to enable?

Was in Adv Chipset Features in DFI.

Lost all my screenies to reformats and selling HDD's, I was looking for some I may have posted at DFI-Street and I found this:

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28171

If you had SP1, PAE would still be an option. Given the stated 3GB SP2 barrier, the fact that you can only detect 2gb leads me to beleive there is a BIOS problem. But a fix would only raise you to 3gb approx.

Ugly

Think

05-10-2006, 12:56 AM

I'm going to install Microsoft xp 64..thanks anyway for all your suggestions.

nn_step

05-10-2006, 01:07 AM

I'm going to install Microsoft xp 64..thanks anyway for all your suggestions.
That really is not going to help you but if you feel like it.. Go for it...

Think

05-10-2006, 01:13 AM

That really is not going to help you but if you feel like it.. Go for it...

Why wouldn't it help? Apparently xp64 OS does not have the same limitations as xp32. Microsoft allows a free demo of the os, so if it shows up in either task manager or system properties, then I'm good to go. Non of those switches work at all unless someone can give me a precise HOW TO GUIDE.

CPUZ clearly indicates that I have 4 gigs of ram but the program draws this directly from the bios.

Don't mind being a guinea pig to solve this people so let me know what suggestions other than /3G for /PAE switch you have - they don't work.

I do not know how to edit the PAE switch.

nn_step

05-10-2006, 01:16 AM

Except you fail to understand that Windows XP 32 and 64Bit both use the exact same ram allocation table.. Thus they support the exact same amount of Ram.
Which is still 3.6GB.

Think

05-10-2006, 01:31 AM

Except you fail to understand that Windows XP 32 and 64Bit both use the exact same ram allocation table.. Thus they support the exact same amount of Ram.
Which is still 3.6GB.

If I can have xp32 address 3.6Gigs then that would be fine.

Der_KHAN

05-10-2006, 03:52 AM

Except you fail to understand that Windows XP 32 and 64Bit both use the exact same ram allocation table.. Thus they support the exact same amount of Ram.
Which is still 3.6GB.uuuhm ... nope

... with x64 it's more like 16 terabytes. Memory allocation settings (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888732/en-us)

nn_step

05-10-2006, 03:55 AM

uuuhm ... nope

... with x64 it's more like 16 terabytes. Memory allocation settings (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888732/en-us)
:rofl: learn to seperate Supported hard drive space with supported Ram space..

Der_KHAN

05-10-2006, 04:23 AM

oh, oops :D

but still 128GB physical ram on XPx64 should be plenty.

so how did you get the idea that 3.6 is max on x64?

nn_step

05-10-2006, 04:28 AM

oh, oops :D

but still 128GB physical ram on XPx64 should be plenty.

so how did you get the idea that 3.6 is max on x64?
Because it uses the Same allocation table as the 32Bit edition thus it can only support the same amount of ram (given the original version but this can be fixed with a patch)
But that is just me digging into the windows Operating system.
and that 128GB of Ram is for the Windows Enterprise Server 2003 not XP pro.. 64bit or not...

[XC] itznfb

05-10-2006, 04:42 AM

Because it uses the Same allocation table as the 32Bit edition thus it can only support the same amount of ram (given the original version but this can be fixed with a patch)
But that is just me digging into the windows Operating system.
and that 128GB of Ram is for the Windows Enterprise Server 2003 not XP pro.. 64bit or not...

Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition 2 128 GB

x64 does support 128gb of ram
i built two x64 boxes for our developers at work, they both have 2 proc and 16gb of ram. shows up as 16gb in the os.

::enterprise x64, and datacenter x64 supports 1TB of ram

Der_KHAN

05-10-2006, 07:14 AM

Because it uses the Same allocation table as the 32Bit edition...where did you get this from?

bachus_anonym

05-10-2006, 08:43 AM

Except you fail to understand that Windows XP 32 and 64Bit both use the exact same ram allocation table.. Thus they support the exact same amount of Ram. Which is still 3.6GB.Currently, 32-bit editions of Windows are capable of supporting up to 4 gigabytes (GB) of system memory, with up to 2 GB of dedicated memory per process. Windows Professional XP Edition x64 currently supports up to 128 GB of RAM, with the potential to support up to 16 terabytes of virtual memory as hardware capabilities and memory sizes improve.Have you actually run WinXP Pro x64 Edition, nn_step? I did compare 4GB in 32-bit and 64-bit and believe me, there is a difference. You can see how 4GB in 64-bit looks like here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1420563&postcount=6) and here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1422549&postcount=11). Stop spreading incorrect information, please.

Think

05-10-2006, 01:04 PM

Windows xp pro x64 worked like a charm. Full utilization of my 4Gigs of ram. Showing up on Task Manager and system properies:banana:

I'll just dual boot both operating systems in this case. Use x64 for everthing else and x32 for the rare occassion of playing games that are not compatible with x64. Even my crossfire ATI cards, Ricoh printer and everything else works on the system!.:woot:

Der_KHAN

05-10-2006, 01:18 PM

remember using the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE switch so that 32bit processes will take advantage of all 4GBs

Think

05-10-2006, 01:21 PM

remember using the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE switch so that 32bit processes will take advantage of all 4GBs

I'll give it a try.

BTW. This is a free evaluation of xp 64 that you can download from microsoft. Good for 4 months.

bachus_anonym

05-10-2006, 01:25 PM

As far as I remeber, application needs to be written in a way to be "aware" of extra addressing space. With that in mind, switches won't help, unfortunately...

I'm glad you got your 4GB working, Think! It's pretty neat! If you use Photoshop try to create 1-2GB RAMDISK and use it as a scratch disk for Photoshop. Much better than "scratch" space on physical disk, as you can imagine :)

Think

05-10-2006, 01:29 PM

Der_KHAN

05-10-2006, 02:51 PM

As far as I remeber, application needs to be written in a way to be "aware" of extra addressing space. With that in mind, switches won't help, unfortunately...i thought this was more like a compatibility thing - that some 32bit apps will crash with /LARGEADDRESSAWARE and its therefore disabled by default