Propylene

[The Weedman]

Right now i am using propane in my single stage but ive found that i can get propylene for only a few dollars more. Is it worth it to give propylene a try? I havent heard alot of people using it before so i am curious.

[kayl]

it boils at -46.7 so just colder than r404a but not as cold as r507
I would give it a try for sure.

[hatemi]

Your lucky to get it that cheap. The last quota I got when I was searching for it was like 300€ for a botle so thanks but no thanks :)

[Jack]

Special (thus expensive) oil has to be used with propylene, that's the biggest problem. This oil is the same as one would need with r14.

[Unknown_road]

Special (thus expensive) oil has to be used with propylene, that's the biggest problem. This oil is the same as one would need with r14.

probably...

[404Power]

@ Jack: Are you sure about that? °_O
I think there would be no problem in using it with normal mineral oil like with R290! Sry if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that there is no need for a special oil! ^^

[Unknown_road]

@ Jack: Are you sure about that? °_O
I think there would be no problem in using it with normal mineral oil like with R290! Sry if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that there is no need for a special oil! ^^

check the air liquide specifications for the oil and you see that propylene is not compatible with hydrocarbon based oils.

[lma01]

besides, it's still highly flammable...

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Who cares if it's flammible? R-12 is flammible and yet look how much it is used. Do you own a BBQ? if you better get rid of it fast as it is flammible! ever use lighters? think of how horroribly dangerus they are better get rid of them too!

Seriously please stick to pointing out real risks, like is it toxic, and such

[The Weedman]

Well i already took it for a trial run last night just to see. Idle in windows the evap temp was -49c, loaded it went down to -43c. My temps in windows at 1.8v@3.15ghz were somewhere around -20c fully loaded(sensor on my neo2 is kind of wacked even though the board was just brand new off of rma). Now that i know that the oil is not compatible, should i just pull the gas out and do an oil change? Or should i worry about anything else?
Thanks

[Unknown_road]

you can only hope that it will not affect the oil too much now, the replacement oil is very expensive. maybe the oil troubles aren't that bad because the system is small and the evap temp is relative high.

[The Weedman]

Im curious as to how it would affect the oil? Would it just not flow or maybe start clogging the captube or something? I may just switch back to propane to avoid any problem anyways and i can get regular mineral oil for free so ill probably change the oil.

[Unknown_road]

I honestly don't know exactly what it does with the oil.

mineral oil is also carbon based.

[wirehead]

http://www.bitzer.de/_doc/a/a-501-13.pdf
read page 26

propylen (R1270) is working with POE, PAO, mineraloil and alkylbenzol.
But the discharge temp is much higher than with r507/r404a.
Up to 20-30K more. In this case POE oil is the best...

[runmc]

Im curious as to how it would affect the oil? Would it just not flow or maybe start clogging the captube or something? I may just switch back to propane to avoid any problem anyways and i can get regular mineral oil for free so ill probably change the oil.


That's a good question. I'd like to know also.

Walt !!!! Can you help us on this one?

[Sneil]

I would think there would be some sort of chemical reaction maybe raising the acidity in the oil. Thats just a guess. What happens when you use a gas that requires POE but mineral oil is used? Maybe the same type of thing happens.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

I would think there would be some sort of chemical reaction maybe raising the acidity in the oil. Thats just a guess. What happens when you use a gas that requires POE but mineral oil is used? Maybe the same type of thing happens.

I second that I think it forms a acid too.

[The Weedman]

I can get POE oil for free to, so maybe i will stick with propylene. It has yielded pretty decent temps so far.
Also thanks for that post wirehead, it was very informative.

[Unknown_road]

POE, mineral and AB are all hydrocarbon based as far as I know.

[Blaster]

yeah, it shouldnt be a problem working with any oil

but wirehead is right POE will give best performance (... but very hard to notice :D )

offtopic: Anyone knows where to get some kind of PAO oil ? :confused:

[_HL4E_HalfLife_]

Where can u buy propylene anyway? I check Canadian Tire and they got nothing.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

LOL Canadian tire, just LOL.

Try a real industrial supply place like a welding shop or Air Liquid and such.

You will not find it at home hard ware or Canadian Tire, that I can tell you with relative certainty.

[The Weedman]

Canadian tire is exactly where i got it from :fact:
http://img102.imagevenue.com/loc215/th_49980_system.jpg (http://img102.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc215&image=49980_system.jpg)

[boshuter]

LOL Canadian tire, just LOL.

Try a real industrial supply place like a welding shop or Air Liquid and such.

You will not find it at home hard ware or Canadian Tire, that I can tell you with relative certainty.

Canadian tire is exactly where i got it from

Now that's just LOL.

[wdrzal]

That's a good question. I'd like to know also.

Walt !!!! Can you help us on this one?

Nope, never used propylene :stick:

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Very weird, never seen propylene at any out lets here and I'm surprised they'd carry it. Ah well good signs that our overly stupid laws are laxing up a little (So I hope)

Lets see the components of that ie the label detailing the chemicals present.

[Ad Rock]

Canadian tire is exactly where i got it from :fact:
http://img102.imagevenue.com/loc215/th_49980_system.jpg (http://img102.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc215&image=49980_system.jpg)

HAH I was picking up some MAP gass at CT about 4 months ago and saw that new bottle of "brazing fuel" sitting next to the propane and MAPP gas and instanly thought to myself "perhaps a new refridgerant?". It is nice to know that I can now charge my system with 2 different gasses bought from Canadian Tire :D.

Next time I redo my SS I am going to give it a try and see if I see a noticable improvement in temps over r290 ( hopefully it is a big improvement).

[Carlz0r]

Hmm. I might pick some of that up. What did you do for a valve, just a modded torch kit?

[The Weedman]

Heres a pic of the ingredients
http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc209/th_70417_system_022.jpg (http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc209&image=70417_system_022.jpg)
This is what i use for charging
http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc133/th_70424_system_023.jpg (http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc133&image=70424_system_023.jpg)

[wdrzal]

HAH I was picking up some MAP gass at CT about 4 months ago and saw that new bottle of "brazing fuel" sitting next to the propane and MAPP gas and instanly thought to myself "perhaps a new refridgerant?". It is nice to know that I can now charge my system with 2 different gasses bought from Canadian Tire :D.

Next time I redo my SS I am going to give it a try and see if I see a noticable improvement in temps over r290 ( hopefully it is a big improvement).

Mapp gas contains ACTETYLENE , NEVER USE.

[martinjon666]

I believe he was trying to say he saw the propylene NEXT to the map gas and propane. :) I may have to keep an eye out for propylene also.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

huh I'll be damed, Cool perhaps BC is lagging behind on the nicer Gasses. Ah well what ells is new *Rolls eyes* At least I can get R-134a around here!

[Ad Rock]

Mapp gas contains ACTETYLENE , NEVER USE.

I can't use it for brazing? ;)

I am not using MAPP as a refridgerant (the 2 gasses I was refering to were Propane and Propylene) but I apreciate your concern wdrzal.

[yngndrw]

Mapp gas contains ACTETYLENE , NEVER USE.
I thought MAPP contains an actetylene BASED gas, not actetylene it's self ??

[Carlz0r]

MAPP is a mixture of propane and methylacetylene-propadiene. It still contains acetylene, so it would definitely not be a safe refrigerant. IIRC, acetylene does not react too well with copper (boom).

[andybg]

acetlyene does not react to well at pressures over 15 psi. Quick breakdown on the whole oil thing. Chemical reaction and formations of acids is part of the issue; carryover is the other. The reason you find so many R-12 machines still chugging their guts out is that the chlorine in 12 (same thing that makes the ozone cry) makes it easy to pick up the mineral oil and slosh it throughout the system and carry it back to compressor so you don't have to worry about running bearings dry because all your oil is now stuck in evaporator or something. Some refrigerants cannot pickup some oils and some refrigerants have nasty chemical reactions with some refrigerants. Hope that clears it up a little.