ageia PhysX processor arrived today... is it overclockable?

[irev210]

Well, it arrived, and it has a huge die!





Apparently, you will even be able to overclock them!


Does anyone know who manufactures the PPU for ageia? I thought TSMC did

Anyway, here is the card in all of its glory...


http://www.importjdm.com/shipped/physx.JPG



Here are some screen shots:

http://www.importjdm.com/shipped/ageia1.JPG


video

[FUGGER]

Nice, run some 3D.

From what I was told, futuremark may already have support for ageia api with current PCMark build.

Let us know if it increases score in the physics tests.

[cronic]

give 3dmark06 a run with and without.

[Fhqwhgads6680]

nice! I didn't realize these were coming out so soon, just curious but do you know of a list of games that will be supporting these that are coming out soon? Lmao, we are already trying to overclock it and we don't even know if anything supports it yet..... I love Xtreme Systems :D Good luck man, let us know your results!

Brandon J

[-Acid-]

awaiting a 06 run

i have a bfg 128mb on preorder

[[XC] leviathan18]

run and buy ghost recon it supports the PPU... :D

[Turok]

Thy a physics demo and stress it until the PPU starts to lag :P

Since Ageia is a small company, it may be why they produce those large die chips, which is probably why these cards are expensive.

[irev210]

okay, i am off playing with yonah and physx... bbl

[cantankerous]

I too look very forward to seeing if it runs the cpu tests in 06.

I am very curious too, how is the stock fan? Is it very loud? Does it spin fast?

I am curious already as to how an aftermarket cooler will do on this, that is if it even gets hot enough to warrant that. I have no clue myself. If the stock cooler is loud and whiney I will probably get a new fan for it anyhow as long as we know what fits. I remember seeing a thermaltake fan of some sort on the older Asus prototypes. At the very least I will change the thermal paste on this.

[einCe]

im looking foward to 3-4k cpu scores with this in 06 hopefully

[-Acid-]

now we will see the power of a ppu hopefully
just do an 06 run please and post it up

gonna stay up to see this its 3am here

[metro.cl]

run some benchs!!!

i want to see the increase in performance

[Kunaak]

3DMark 2006 Please :)

[irev210]

im hurrying, setting up yonah rig now

[chinkgai]

why do u want to overclock it? u want explosion debris to fly faster? :p:

jk, looking forward to some screenies/info

[-Acid-]

posts coming thick and fast now some big players watching toooo

06 run please i,ve run outta redbull

[afireinside]

I really excited to see how this helps in 06!

[irev210]

why do u want to overclock it? u want explosion debris to fly faster? :p:

jk, looking forward to some screenies/info


this is XTREME systems... nah, i figured since i got the 128mb version, i am going to need some extra speed to hang with the 256mb version.

I've actually had this sitting at my friends house since the end of march... i didnt think it was a big deal I had it lol


anyway-- teaser




I just did a fresh install on my test rig, so i am downloading 3D06 now
http://www.importjdm.com/shipped/ageia.JPG


heh, you can throw a ball into the cubes, and watch the cubes fall... sorta cool i guess

Atleast I know it works

[afireinside]

we're all waiting for 3d06! Quit throwing balls at boxes and get benching! :p:

[-Acid-]

please tell us your running 06 now

[einCe]

you better hurry before someone else runs it before you :P

[irev210]

we're all waiting for 3d06! Quit throwing balls at boxes and get benching! :p:


10 minutes, crappy 6mbit cable for ya

[Pyr0]

didn't futuremark say that 3dmark06 didn't support the physx at this time?

[-Acid-]

didn't futuremark say that 3dmark06 didn't support the physx at this time?

that would be such an anti climax :mad:

now XS server dropping connection arghhhhh

[wtkprol]

yea i would really like to see how much these improve scores.

btw where did you get this from?

[pik-ard v1.1]

10 minutes, crappy 6mbit cable for ya
hmm. it's been way more than 10 minutes. what's goin on? :stick:

[irev210]

well xs went down for me for a few minutes... and i've been playing :)

x1900xtx at stock speed scored 7219 with my T2600 at 3100

now taking out the physx ppu

brb

[irev210]

okay, i actually scored 7282 or somethign

without the agiea, i scored 7303

so it does nothing at this point, but let me play with the demo lol

[ex2cib]

what was the FPS on the CPU scores?

[irev210]

what was the FPS on the CPU scores?


same with and without...

2613 vs 2612

ill put some screenshots up tomorrow


depressing :(

[bigboi86]

Wow, maybe there needs to be some tweaking.

Do you have to have the full 3dmark for Physx support?

[Pyr0]

as far as i know 3dmark uses the ageia physx software physics libraries, but the PPU hardware wasn't available at the time for futuremark to enable support in 3dmark06
it may just get a patch sometime in the (hopefully near) future

[Vincentvega18]

Any games currently supported by the physx?

[pik-ard v1.1]

http://physx.ageia.com/titles.html

there's a list for ya.

[irev210]

http://physx.ageia.com/titles.html

there's a list for ya.


watch the trailers, looks good

trying pcmark 2005 now

[bigboi86]

watch the trailers, looks good

trying pcmark 2005 now

Wow, I overlooked the trailors before. That explosion looks awesome. :)

[cMw]

Wow, I overlooked the trailors before. That explosion looks awesome. :)
yea their tight as :banana::banana::banana::banana:

[STEvil]

this is XTREME systems... nah, i figured since i got the 128mb version, i am going to need some extra speed to hang with the 256mb version.

I've actually had this sitting at my friends house since the end of march... i didnt think it was a big deal I had it lol


anyway-- teaser




I just did a fresh install on my test rig, so i am downloading 3D06 now
http://www.importjdm.com/shipped/ageia.JPG


heh, you can throw a ball into the cubes, and watch the cubes fall... sorta cool i guess

Atleast I know it works

my xp-m 2500+ could do that.. forget the name of the program but it had a whole bunch of physics tests in it.

[Sub zero]

Where are you from?

[Teflon]

128mb

[Harshal]

Looks like a Patch may enable the actual utilisation of PPU in 3D06...
Damn, one more thing to throw money for :s

[irev210]

check out the AVI i just uploaded with my crappy video camera

the cubes were falling so fast, the camera couldnt focus :(

[zakelwe]

06 uses the AGEIA sofware SDK but this does not mean it applies it to the AGEIA hardware, in fact it does not. It's a cpu test only, whether Futuremark will release a patch to support it I doubt very much as 06 is very much an imporved intermediate bench until the next big 3dmark for the next Microsoft DX10 / WGF / D310.11 or whatever it is called. I guess then AGEIA, nvidia's havoc and Ati's physics processing power may all be benched so we can see which is the best one.

If 4 gpu's are getting more mainstream by then I would guess it would be nice to have 3 gpu's doing the graphics and one doing the physics. If you could stop the bench between tests a la 2001 then you assign the gpu's as you wish of course ! That would make it a very interesting bench to compete in :D

Regards
Andy

[KoukiFC3S]

this is XTREME systems... nah, i figured since i got the 128mb version, i am going to need some extra speed to hang with the 256mb version.

I've actually had this sitting at my friends house since the end of march... i didnt think it was a big deal I had it lol


anyway-- teaser




I just did a fresh install on my test rig, so i am downloading 3D06 now
http://www.importjdm.com/shipped/ageia.JPG


heh, you can throw a ball into the cubes, and watch the cubes fall... sorta cool i guess

Atleast I know it works

I ran that demo without the card :p:

Where did you buy it? I want one too.

[ex2cib]

i wish i could find the old demo. The old block demo was a lot better than that one i thought.

[SoF]

funny that everybody was screaming for benches at the very beginng not knowing they will not affect the scores in any way.
I think you all should calm down for the moment - maybe this is a nice to have but completely useless imo for now.
wow you can run pcmark faster...I think it is worth waiting another 3 or 4 month until software is there to fire this piece up.

but I am wondering as well how fast they're out now ^^

[[cTx]Philosophy]

price for one of these?

[-Acid-]

if you download the drivers for this and install them you can run this demo

[[cTx]Philosophy]

I know this sounds stupid, but would this possibly help in folding output?
I know therte not physics or anything, but isnt this kind of an aid th processing?

[cantankerous]

Sorry for being a pain but could you comment on fan noise and heat output of this thing? I take it there is probably not a temp sensor that we can monitor so we will never really know how hot it gets but I am concerned of adding more whine and noise to my case with that fan. Thanks.

BTW, what manufacturer did you get?

[Mr. Tinker]

Anyway, here is the card in all of its glory... too bad it cant do me any good yet.


Where's that pic?

[irev210]

Where's that pic?
picture shows up fine for me



card doesnt seem to run too hot. It is very quiet, it uses a sunon maglev fan.

[KoukiFC3S]

so where did you pick it up?

[irev210]

so where did you pick it up?


a friend got it for me, it is unbranded

[KoukiFC3S]

Ahh lucky!
Ghost Recon is coming out on May 2nd. It will take advantage of the card. Picking it up?

[Negative Design]

Could you show us pics of the actual card and box?
And as for overclocking I'm sure it will be possible once this thing gets into more hands.

[LexDiamonds]

Could you show us pics of the actual card and box?


Read the thread? Pic is in first post and he said it was an OEM card.

[Diverge]

It looks like if could be a BFG card (blue just like them), I remember them being released, then pulled because they were only supposed to be sold to OEM manufacturers.

Here is the old link: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30906

Edit: I guess it doesn't look like the BFG one here: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/PhysX_Accelerators.html

[Levish]

Dell seems to be supplying system with them and no mention that it would delay the system so they probably have them in stock, not sure which oem they use though.

[ingentingmendeg]

run 3dmark06 yet? cant be that hard....

[.:\dGh/:.]

I think the score will be nice. Having a PPU on the CPU benchs will be a crearly speed-up.

[\Karting_freak]

when those pci-e are coming out?

[Negative Design]

I think the score will be nice. Having a PPU on the CPU benchs will be a crearly speed-up.


Not if the PPU isn't supported yet,kinda like putting a DX7 card on a DX9 game,its useless if not supported :nono: .

[J-Mag]

when those pci-e are coming out?

My guess is not until at least q2 '07

[RyderOCZ]

run 3dmark06 yet? cant be that hard....
Post #28 and #30 of this thread....no screenie, just posted his score. :)

[Sheik]

Show us a screenshot of your Task Manager. There should be a little something extra showing up there on the Performance tab. ;)

[Sam666]

I can get 3 BFG 128 Physx cards, pm if your interested.

[irev210]

They are all made at the same place, just rebranded with the stupid stickers saying BFG or whatever

It looks like if could be a BFG card (blue just like them), I remember them being released, then pulled because they were only supposed to be sold to OEM manufacturers.

Here is the old link: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30906

Edit: I guess it doesn't look like the BFG one here: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/PhysX_Accelerators.html

[cantankerous]

picture shows up fine for me



card doesnt seem to run too hot. It is very quiet, it uses a sunon maglev fan.

Thanks for the reply, as long as it is quiet and not going to be heard over any of the other fans ill be happy. Ill just swap the stock paste for some Ceramique and leave it at that.

I am going to try and track down a 256M Asus card though I think it will be awhile before I can find those in Canada.

[AcEmAsTr]

run the ragdoll in 3dmark03

[LexDiamonds]

run the ragdoll in 3dmark03

:rolleyes:

This will be the target market for these cards...

[Diverge]

They are all made at the same place, just rebranded with the stupid stickers saying BFG or whatever

The reason I said that was because the caps in the picture of the BFG card, and the one the OP has, are in different spots on the PCB (that is assuming the picture on the site is correct for the BFG).

[comrad]

I know this sounds stupid, but would this possibly help in folding output?
I know therte not physics or anything, but isnt this kind of an aid th processing?
Yeah, I think they are gonna make these cards so that they can fold as well, I read about it somewhere...:cool:

[madgamer]

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1045817 theres one with a water block on it over at the [H]. Evidently it uses the same mounting bracket setup as any gf4 cooler. one of those caps looks like its kind of in the way (see the second pic in that thread) if you were to use certain setups to replace the stock cooler though.

[-Acid-]

Good read so we can water cool it with ease (same gpu holes as a gf4 so a DD water block will fit no problem)then so who is gonna be the first one to volt mod overclock it :)


Cannot wait till mine arrives from pre order.

[Negative Design]

Try this http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe and try the Big Bang demo...that demo can supposedly make an FX60 and current SLI/XF systems cry.

[NickS]

Try this http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe and try the Big Bang demo...that demo can supposedly make an FX60 and current SLI/XF systems cry.

I'll run it on my rig in sig :p:

Nick

[bigboi86]

I'll run it on my rig in sig :p:

Nick

Ran 3.5FPS on my rig :p:

[NickS]

Well, with Building Explode I got 18FPS. :)

Screenies soon.

Nick

EDIT: Wow, some of these make some rly weird high pitched noises come from my PC lol.

Anyway, heres some screenies during some tests. I guess it's highly GPU reliant?

It kicked up my video card to the 3D profile (3d detection in ATi Tool).

Click thumbs to enlarge..


http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx_thumb.jpg
(http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx.JPG)

http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx2_thumb.jpg
(http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx2.JPG)

http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx3_thumb.jpg
(http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx3.JPG)

http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx4_thumb.jpg
(http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx4.JPG)

BTW: Temp in Task bar is my video card core.

How you like these FPS :p


http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx5_thumb.jpg
(http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/physx5.JPG)

Enjoy.

[Jester FPS]

irev210: Could you please run the Big Bang test? On this program. (http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe)

That is the most intensive physics demo on that entire program and we're having trouble getting anything over 20+ FPS on existing hardware minus the PhysX card of course.

NickS: are you running a PhysX card?

[Negative Design]

I get around 25-30 FPS on the building one,but all test use 100% of CPU power.They all run smoothly except for the Big bang.

BTW nice temps Nick I get around 62 idle with my stock cooler and I have the same card as you but not overclocked yet.

[-Acid-]

please run the above tests

[irev210]

i dont have the card anymore, sorry.

[Negative Design]

What happened ? :(

[NickS]

irev210: Could you please run the Big Bang test? On this program. (http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe)

That is the most intensive physics demo on that entire program and we're having trouble getting anything over 20+ FPS on existing hardware minus the PhysX card of course.

NickS: are you running a PhysX card?

Nope :) I was suprised too.

I'm gonna try and run Big Bang.

EDIT: WOW big bang went from 10 FPS to about 2.5 constant. :|

Nick

[ULJarad]

The demo doesn't support hardware acceleration; it came out 2 years ago. Check this (http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MTgxMjYsLCxobmV3cywsLDE) out.

Please, tell us what fps you get!

edit-
Wait, what happened to the card?

[KoukiFC3S]

I get 60fps constant with the brick demo...

[Negative Design]

I get 60fps constant with the brick demo...


Yes....but how much of CPU power are you using up ;)

[ZX7891]

I think after i move to dual core, sli and the like..ill pick one of these up

[bigboi86]

What happened to the card???

[irev210]

the card is in better hands, so you should have better benchmarks soon

[Negative Design]

the card is in better hands, so you should have better benchmarks soon


I had a feeling you would say that lol

[wtkprol]

whose hand are we talking about?

[IvanAndreevich]

What apps support this thing that are out RIGHT NOW?

[bigboi86]

the card is in better hands, so you should have better benchmarks soon

Yea whose hands? lol..

I want to see SOME kind of enhancement with this!!!

[ULJarad]

What apps support this thing that are out RIGHT NOW?
Just the app that comes with it, here (http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MTgxMjYsLCxobmV3cywsLDE). First game to support it will be Ghost Recon 3 for pc, due next month.

[IvanAndreevich]

Just the app that comes with it, here (http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MTgxMjYsLCxobmV3cywsLDE). First game to support it will be Ghost Recon 3 for pc, due next month.
Ok, if this is true then what benches are people waiting for here :confused: What's the excitement about?

[Negative Design]

People are always excited about new hardware,especially hardware that improves gaming....even if that hw isn't supported ;).

[Micketh]

Is havokFX similar to Physx? Its confusing me do they enable the same levels of physics to be used in later games etc I know they arent the same but do they do the same job because if they do then unless you have an ati card then is ther a point to getting an Ageia?

[Negative Design]

Hardware accelaration will always be better than software and Havoc is mainly software.Yes there IS a point to getting an Ageia since it will will relieve the CPU and GPU of all the stress it goes through compution physics.

[irev210]

Ok, if this is true then what benches are people waiting for here :confused: What's the excitement about?


look at the size of that die...

125 million transistors. Im excited... graphics have gotten great.. AI has improved, but the game enviroment has stated pretty much non-interactive.


this could be a great change.

[Negative Design]

I'd love to see HL2 physics meet Ageia physx for a beautiful marriage...that would be amazing.

[ULJarad]

You'd love to see Havok and Ageia together? :p The reason Ageia (hardware accel) looks more promising than ever before is because it's not Havok (software accel). I think you meant to say you wish Havok supported hardware acceleration. Even then, that means more ragdolls being thrown around - no environmental distruction - because Source doesn't support it.

[Levish]

have you heard of HavokFX? which NVidia is already picking up

http://www.havok.com/content/view/187/77/

[FUGGER]

That Novodex Rocket demo is pretty cool. Most of the demos fly at 1000+ FPS on the Conroe except the big bang.

Big bang drags the Conroe down as well.

[Deathspawner]

Only 1000FPS? This thing is outdated already!

Seriously though, I can't wait until more games support it. The upcoming games that do though should blow our pants off.

[STEvil]

I cant wait for nV and ATi to get into the phsyics battle full force.

I could use an R600 for graphics and my "old" X1600XT for physics ;)

[ULJarad]

have you heard of HavokFX? which NVidia is already picking up

http://www.havok.com/content/view/187/77/

There are two types of physics: effects- and gameplay-physics. Havok FX basically lets the CPU continue doing gameplay-physics while the GPU takes off some of the workload to do effect-physics.



This is taken right from the Havok FX website (http://www.havok.com/%20index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=187&Itemid=77):Q: Will Ageia's PPU be able to handle game-play physics as well as effects physics?

This needs to be emphazied:
Q: Can the soluttion ATI/NVIDIA/Havock offers accelerete game-play physics?

A: NO, they can only do effects physics, real physics still have to be calcutated on the CPU.

It's like comparing oranges to apples to compare AGEIA soulution to the wannabe-solution offered by ATI/NVIDIA/Havock...
Ones does it ALL: Game-play and effect physics.
One can only do one: Effect physics.

Terracide - When I read the PPU-subforum a lt of people sadly think that their GPU's will give them real physics...sad :(

[STEvil]

Can you give us an example of "effects-physics" and "gameplay-physics" ?

As far as I understand the AGEIA way uses a randomized calculation to make everything "realistic" which is going to produce a different result for everyone.

IE: I fire a rocket at a pile of rubble in a game. On my screen a cinder block may go flying by harmlessly while on the screens of other people they may be struck by the cinder block, or the cinder block may hit a switch which releases a wrecking ball which smashes another player through a brick wall....

[ULJarad]

Can you give us an example of "effects-physics" and "gameplay-physics" ?Certainly.

Q: Will a GPU physics solution be able to do both gameplay and effects physics?
A: No, this is a common misconception. A GPU can only do effects physics, meaning that it will not affect the environment with things like flying shrapnel. You will see the shrapnel, but it won't be able to hit players, go through wall, deform the terrain...etc.

-source (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1035672)

In other words, with GPU-accelerated physics if you were to shoot a rocket at the ground, the CPU would calculate the reconstruct the crater the explosion created but the GPU would only do the chunks of dirt flying around. A PPU would do both, probably quicker too.
-edit- If the chunks of ground are intended to affect gameplay, ie fly off and potentially kill someone then that would be considered gameplay-physics. The GPU would have done nothing to contribute in this situation as far as physics go. :)

Think about it: Let's imagine TES:Oblivion with a single 7900GT. A 7900GT is fast, but it's a different story with Oblivion as it is. Now imagine Oblivion with gameplay-physics supported. So you are already running a modest ~20-40fps at highest detail and everything, now they want that card that's not even doing that great to do more work: effect-physics. The CPU would continue doing what's already in the game, but the GPU would just do more, bringing the fps down. Now with a PPU, the CPU doesn't work on physics as much, and the GPU continues doing what it already is doing. The PPU would just allow another element to be added to the game without compromising.

It's similar to a sound card. Normally, going from disabled sound to full surround audio, you lose performance, a lot depending on the quality and quantity sounds, sources, channels, etc. At least on onboard sound, anyway. With a good enough sound card, the difference is near nothing.


As far as I understand the AGEIA way uses a randomized calculation to make everything "realistic" which is going to produce a different result for everyone.Havok does the same thing. Remember the end of Max Payne 2? ATM, Counter-Strike only supports effect-physics online. You shoot a guy and lands in a funny position and take a screenshot, it's different for everyone. Besides, if they do include gameplay-physics, it would have to be universally the same for each person because it affects gameplay. When/if they do include it, it would only be random with respect to each event, not individually random per person.

IE: I fire a rocket at a pile of rubble in a game. On my screen a cinder block may go flying by harmlessly while on the screens of other people they may be struck by the cinder block, or the cinder block may hit a switch which releases a wrecking ball which smashes another player through a brick wall....

Q: Will a GPU physics solution be able to do both gameplay and effects physics?
A: No, this is a common misconception. A GPU can only do effects physics, meaning that it will not affect the environment with things like flying shrapnel. You will see the shrapnel, but it won't be able to hit players, go through wall, deform the terrain...etc.

-source (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1035672)

Another good example: say you have a gun that shoots actual bullets in a game (unlike games like UT2k4 where the machine gun's bullets hit instantly when fired). In GPU acceleration, the GPU would do the shells that fall and bounce on the floor below, while the shots fired that kill and damage walls is done through the CPU. A PPU would do both! :)

[[cTx]Philosophy]

If this would help my oblivion performance, id be right on it...
But im sure it does nothing as all the rest of the posts have shown..
falling cubes has been only conclusive evidence so far for me..
oh and kabooming dumpsters..

[-Acid-]

city of vilians supports A PPu and its out now

[ULJarad]

If this would help my oblivion performance, id be right on it...
But im sure it does nothing as all the rest of the posts have shown..
falling cubes has been only conclusive evidence so far for me..
oh and kabooming dumpsters..
Everything I've mentioned is if if they supported both GPU and PPU acceleration, which may not happen on the same game together for a long time.

[STEvil]

you didnt explain why they can only do "effects-physics" though, you just told us its the only way they can do it.

EDIT

just so you dont have to tell us: its because of how the physics API's are programmed, not because GPU's "cant do it".

[KoukiFC3S]

Try this http://www.novodex.com/rocket/NovodexRocket_V1_1.exe and try the Big Bang demo...that demo can supposedly make an FX60 and current SLI/XF systems cry.
That demo is so cool!
Does it support the Physx tho?

[[XC] leviathan18]

ive read somewhere aegis is workin with havok so they will use their API someone search for havok and aegis...


damn now i want to buy one of these... anyone knows where i can buy one?

[irev210]

ive read somewhere aegis is workin with havok so they will use their API someone search for havok and aegis...


damn now i want to buy one of these... anyone knows where i can buy one?


i am going to try and do an XS group buy... i might be able to get a lot of them within the next week or so, all OEM.

Ill update later.

[uwackme]

Seems really interesting.

If I were Ageia, I'd male a PCIe x1 version, and have it run in a 5-1/4" bay with a cable to the PCIe slot. Figuring the space on the motherboard is getting TIGHT, especially for SLI/CFire hardcore users that would be flocking to add a Physix card.

[Jester FPS]

^ hehe, interesting idea. I too am low on available slots, tv tuner, souncard, sli in the future so that would be perfect.

[madgamer]

thats a pretty interesting idea. I wonder, can they do that? I mean, i've never seen anything that does that, but is it possible? what type of interconnect would run between the part that plugs into the slow and the connector in the normal 5 1/4 bay? Would latency introduced by lengthening the interconnect be an issue? it seems like a good idea though, as you could use that 1x slot hidden under your videocards (or even just under any 1 dual slot cooling solution card). Have you seen thermaltakes sli power supply that mounts in the 5 1/4 bay? it kind of reminds me of that.

[irev210]

ive read somewhere aegis is workin with havok so they will use their API someone search for havok and aegis...


damn now i want to buy one of these... anyone knows where i can buy one?



I just got another one, you have PM.

[irev210]

okay, get a list of tests you would like me to run... im ageia ready again.

[ULJarad]

Tests, plural? The only thing that supports it is the tiny demo that comes with the driver. Even the hardware accelerated physics test in 3DMark06 shouldn't be affected because it's done throught he GPU.

[irev210]

Tests, plural? The only thing that supports it is the tiny demo that comes with the driver. Even the hardware accelerated physics test in 3DMark06 shouldn't be affected because it's done throught he GPU.

haha, well if anyone comes across anything... ill play with it

[ahmad]

Just to remain on the open minded side of things, I wouldn't take advice on what ATI and Nvidia GPUs can or can't do from Ageia ;)

[uwackme]

Yeah, one of the cool things about PCIe is the ability to handle things like putting the board out on the end of a ribbon cable.

You could have your X1900 on the end of a cable too, would barely notice the difference, though the power lines need to be beefier than the signal lines.

But cabling was anticipated in the spec.

One little product idea Ive been thinking about, is a PCI slot cage...5 PCI slots... that sits seperate from the motherboard and connects via a PCIe x2 connection on a cable. Think of a double wide case, with a second "card cage" section with plenty of PCI slots for tuners, sound, etc, that plugs into a good SLI motherboard's x2 connector. Slot expansion is one of the powerful abilities open to the industry now with PCIe.

Stuff like that exists now, but its industrial and costs a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load. This should really only retail for $49-ish.

[mursaat]

I still wonder what happens with "gameplay-physics" when gaming online. What if I don't have a PPU and the guy that shoots me a rocket has it. The explosion chuncks should kill me in his comp, and I suddenly fall dead? :D

And instead, what if I shoot the same rocket? Does he die but I don't see how?

That would end in 2 scenarios:

1. Non-PPU gamers see strange things happening
2. PPU gamers has an unfair advantage!

And maybe someone says "It's intended for offline games"... that's a poor solution to the problem :)

[-Acid-]

I still wonder what happens with "gameplay-physics" when gaming online. What if I don't have a PPU and the guy that shoots me a rocket has it. The explosion chuncks should kill me in his comp, and I suddenly fall dead? :D

And instead, what if I shoot the same rocket? Does he die but I don't see how?

That would end in 2 scenarios:

1. Non-PPU gamers see strange things happening
2. PPU gamers has an unfair advantage!

And maybe someone says "It's intended for offline games"... that's a poor solution to the problem :)

think back to when gpu started games became coded for them and those that didnt have the hardware had to run in software mode and the cpu worked it out it will be the same with ppu games those of us that dont have a ppu will run in software mode.

[mursaat]

Yes but a GPU upgrade made things look better or smoother. Yes it made a difference where software FPS were too low to even aim, but didn't involved any physical elements like particles and chunks from explosions that can collision with your "body" and kill you.

Never saw a frag because of 200FPS 16xHQAA :D:D:D

[Marvin_The_Martian]

I think this has been said before, isn't this like foilage in farcry? Online players with higher settings have denser foilage and can't see players which have lower display settings. I believe that was fixed server side, making sure each player plays at the same settings? Im not sure, not such an online gamer but it would make sence.

Which would mean the answer will stay it's an offline solution untill it get's so integrated everyone will have it. I say this won't be released for online gaming, and if it does the extra eyecandy won't influence gameplay. I think pieces off that rocket might fly straight through players without actually hitting it ;)

[del_fuego]

I still wonder what happens with "gameplay-physics" when gaming online. What if I don't have a PPU and the guy that shoots me a rocket has it. The explosion chuncks should kill me in his comp, and I suddenly fall dead? :D

And instead, what if I shoot the same rocket? Does he die but I don't see how?

That would end in 2 scenarios:

1. Non-PPU gamers see strange things happening
2. PPU gamers has an unfair advantage!

And maybe someone says "It's intended for offline games"... that's a poor solution to the problem :)

I only know about Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, which comes out in less than two weeks (May 5th) and is certainly an online multiplayer fps. If you read the post at the top of this link http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32145&st=15 you will see BoGRIN (head developer of the game) talking about the recent ageia footage from thier website comparing the ppu version with the non-ppu version, he clearly states that with or without the ppu, people wont be killed easier. Unfortunately he doesnt go into technical detail about it but i guess theres no reason he would lie, and i guess the technical aspects will be revealed soon enough. I'm sure the developers making these games that have support for the ppu will have thought of all the possible concerns and problems that could arise from this tech. If it's good enough for UT2K7 (one of the biggest online shooters there is) then i'm sure it will be all good.

[uwackme]

Im glad to see UT2K7 getting it, that means the next rev of AArmy will have the Physix built in waaaaaawhooooo!

[KoukiFC3S]

Ghost Recon demo is out. Put that card to good use!

[cantankerous]

sweet!

[ULJarad]

That would end in 2 scenarios:

1. Non-PPU gamers see strange things happening
2. PPU gamers has an unfair advantage!
It would result in the same scene. One person would have it done through their CPU (as all physics have until now) and the other on the PPU. Check out Garry's Mod.

I only know about Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, which comes out in less than two weeks (May 5th) and is certainly an online multiplayer fps. If you read the post at the top of this link From the looks of it, everything is an effect. After you shoot someone dead, they fall and cannot affect anyone anymore. Shooting a garbage can makes everything fly around but not harm anyone. The projectile shot from the grenade launcher is an animation (nothing affects its path until it hits something and explodes, only gravity).

[Eastcoasthandle]

ghost recon demo with ppu enabled
http://www.filecloud.com/
http://www.fileshack.com/
http://www.fileplanet.com/

[0range]

Ghost Recon demo is out. Put that card to good use!
Aw you beat me to it! i was going to post that:clap:

[irev210]

ghost recon demo with ppu enabled
http://www.filecloud.com/
http://www.fileshack.com/
http://www.fileplanet.com/


SWEET!

Downloading now

[irev210]

ugg, this blows... i cant find a fast server

yahoo needs to list it up on their server, videogames.yahoo.com is the best

edit: downloading from UK oddly enough it is maxing out my 6mbit connection

[Negative Design]

Took me 2 hours to get it....I'll play it later.

I wish someone had a physix card we could test *sigh* ;)

[irev210]

Took me 2 hours to get it....I'll play it later.

I wish someone had a physix card we could test *sigh* ;)

sorry, i was busy playing!


It is pretty cool, though the little cubes that pop up from the ground get annoying after awhile.


Probably the coolest part is when the enemy is shooting at you, you see the debris falling all around you, definitely feels more realistic.



Nice addition to your GPU, though I dont think it is worth buying one at this point until more games support it.

[-Acid-]

Any chance of a few screen dumps maybe a short vid showing us the stuff you talk about.

[irev210]

Any chance of a few screen dumps maybe a short vid showing us the stuff you talk about.



yup

just give me an hoour

[KoukiFC3S]

Please do benchies in GRAW and take some vids with fraps if possible. :)

[[XC] leviathan18]

updates irev?????

[Negative Design]

woot! sounds good irev keep us updated :)
P.S do you notice any speeds up or slow downs? with and without the card.

thanks!

[irev210]

updates irev?????


workin on it!


playing graw, and playing with my new samsung UCCC memory

Ill try to get some screen shots of CPU load w/ no ageia, and CPU load w/ ageia, etc.

[Affe007]

I would really like to see the screen shots or better a small vid with and without the card :D

Please blow up some trucks for us!

[irev210]

okay, updated with a video, check the first post.

I tried to get a good idea of CPU usage, but this game doesnt support dual-core CPU.. it only hovered around 50% the entire time.

[God_Lx]

Looks like it's not worth it until more games come out with support... Here it's really easy to get it, just order from overclockers.uk :P

Any news on the overclock ?

[Cooper]

Actually GP also doesn`t support it - yet. I didn`t see anything that my cpu couldn`t render by itself in that video. And game surely is single threaded.

[KoukiFC3S]

thanks for the vid!

[mursaat]

That Novodex Rocket demo is pretty cool. Most of the demos fly at 1000+ FPS on the Conroe except the big bang.

Big bang drags the Conroe down as well.You mean in software renderer right? because with D3D, my 165 and X1900XTX 730/855 almost every demo is around 2000FPS. Haven't tried with soft renderer.

[ULJarad]

You mean in software renderer right? because with D3D, my 165 and X1900XTX 730/855 almost every demo is around 2000FPS. Haven't tried with soft renderer.
For Novodex Rocket? The only hardware acceleration I can find on it is for vertex processing, not physics acceleration.

[Negative Design]

Thanks for the vid irev :)
looks good,I can't wait till these things are reviewed.

[irev210]

Thanks for the vid irev :)
looks good,I can't wait till these things are reviewed.


i wish i had a better test config, but i dont.

Hopefully all the good will come with the new unreal engine. I think this is just a tease.

[FUGGER]

Is there a FPS test for GRAW?

All games should have built in FPS tests easier to access as demo downloads.

[Negative Design]

Heres a before and after clip of GRAW http://physx.ageia.com/sbs_graw.swf
I'm sure many have seen this before though.

And go here http://personal.inet.fi/atk/kjh2348fs/ageia_physx.html for more info.

[Affe007]

Yes something like this were great. I´ve made two vids of exploding vehicles without the PhysX card, it were nice when someone could make a similar vid with the PhysX card.

http://rapidshare.de/files/19180798/GRAW1.wmv.html (WMV 30sec 8MB)
http://rapidshare.de/files/19180964/GRAW2.wmv.html (WMV 30sec 8MB)

[KoukiFC3S]

It doesn't seem that GRAW benefits from the physx card that much. The debris do not even stay on the ground for long.

[cantankerous]

I noticed I get the same debris, falling leaves etc without a physics card and the game runs pretty fast without it too. I don't think it really offers much either.

[Danger30Q]

Can anyone verify if GRAW is dual-core optomized? Thanks.

[KoukiFC3S]

It's not. The cpu usage hovers around 50% while playing.

[ugp]

When does GRAW come out? Because I already have the full version...I just want one of these cards

[Jester FPS]

How are you people getting the full version? It doesn't come out until May 5th

[ULJarad]

We are, how you say... ah yes, le pwnt.

[[cTx]Philosophy]

Im glad to see UT2K7 getting it, that means the next rev of AArmy will have the Physix built in waaaaaawhooooo!

I love AAO :)
].[HeAdHuNtER @ ur service :P

[Negative Design]

How are you people getting the full version? It doesn't come out until May 5th


Bit torrent :(

[ugp]

Bit torrent :(
He would be correct. I thought it was out already.

The game is hard. I am not use to this game style...its a more realistic feel than what I am use to.

I am a Day of Defeat: Source guy and it is a big difference from that. Controlling a squad and shooting people is hard.

[mursaat]

For Novodex Rocket? The only hardware acceleration I can find on it is for vertex processing, not physics acceleration.Hmm nevermind, I wrote that from work and I was remembering something about software renderer, like the CPU doing all the work but now I check it's only the Vertex...

[cantankerous]

He would be correct. I thought it was out already.

The game is hard. I am not use to this game style...its a more realistic feel than what I am use to.

I am a Day of Defeat: Source guy and it is a big difference from that. Controlling a squad and shooting people is hard.

I couldn't agree with you more, I am finding it hard too. To be honest I have no real clue what I'm doing lol.

[Negative Design]

It's not. The cpu usage hovers around 50% while playing.


Most games take 99% of my CPU on my single core if its 50% then that should mean its dual optimized,or maybe I'm wrong.

[mursaat]

Most games take 99% of my CPU on my single core if its 50% then that should mean its dual optimized,or maybe I'm wrong.I think it's the opposite. If it were dual optimized the usage would go higher than 50%. 50% x 2 cores = 99,9%, so typical single core usage :)

[Jester FPS]

I think it's the opposite. If it were dual optimized the usage would go higher than 50%. 50% x 2 cores = 99,9%, so typical single core usage :)

That's incorrect. The CPU distributes the task of the game among the two cores (50/50). If you were to open up another program in the background, one core would take on the task of the game and the other core would take on the new program.

[STEvil]

how many fps does the ageia box demo that comes with the drivers get? Tested it on a P3 866 @ 1040 with 512mb ram at 3-3-3-7 and an X800XL.. seemed to be 100fps+ easily?

[mursaat]

Hmm then why if you open only one prime95 instance you get 50% on each core instead 100% in one and 0% in the second?

I'm not totally sure and not being sarcastic ;) This thing confuses me since my first DC :D

Wouldn't an optimized game use 100% (or at least more than exact 50%) on EACH core?

[Jester FPS]

Hmm then why if you open only one prime95 instance you get 50% on each core instead 100% in one and 0% in the second?


Because the cpu is distributing the workload. You're not priming right if you're doing it this way, get sp2004 and make sure you open up two instances and set CPU: 0 and CPU: 1 in each opened application. Make sure "No Affinity" is unchecked. Then look at each cpu, they should be at 100% utilization each.


Wouldn't an optimized game use 100% (or at least more than exact 50%) on EACH core?

I'm not sure what you consider an optimized game, but the way dual core works is distributed workload. So in any single application, it's common that both core's are only utilizing 50% processing power.

[kemist]

Because the cpu is distributing the workload. You're not priming right if you're doing it this way, get sp2004 and make sure you open up two instances and set CPU: 0 and CPU: 1 in each opened application. Make sure "No Affinity" is unchecked. Then look at each cpu, they should be at 100% utilization each.

I'm not sure what you consider an optimized game, but the way dual core works is distributed workload. So in any single application, it's common that both core's are only utilizing 50% processing power.

what he means is if its coded for DC then you would see higher than 50% because it would be utilizing more than 50% of each core.

[Jester FPS]

what he means is if its coded for DC then you would see higher than 50% because it would be utilizing more than 50% of each core.

there is no game in existance that's coded for dual-core this way.

[mursaat]

Because the cpu is distributing the workload. You're not priming right if you're doing it this way, get sp2004 and make sure you open up two instances and set CPU: 0 and CPU: 1 in each opened application. Make sure "No Affinity" is unchecked. Then look at each cpu, they should be at 100% utilization each.Yes the CPU is distributing the workload because it's a single threaded applicationI'm not sure what you consider an optimized game, but the way dual core works is distributed workload. So in any single application, it's common that both core's are only utilizing 50% processing power.Well then which is the difference between a DC optimized app and one that is not optimized? I mean, with a single threaded app you get 50% in each core, and with multi threaded app you get 50% in each core? don't think so :confused:

I think the case is this: A64 is designed to balance things between both cores so every other app (background services, newly opened apps) have enough CPU free to open like if there were 0% load. But if an app is multi-threaded, it means you have 2 (or more) processes [threads] that can load the 100% of each core. The problem is so far, I haven't checked usage in Task Manager when running a multi threaded app. Apart from 3dk06 which apps are SMP?

/end of OT, sorry

[KoukiFC3S]

In dual core games like Quake 4 after the patch it's not uncommon to see both cores working at 80% or more each.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/zenkifc/q4.jpg

[irev210]

i can load up both cores with prime95 and do the ageia demo, and it works just the same.

I agree, if there is lots of load on the CPU from just running the game, then I see ageia being useful.

[ugp]

I couldn't agree with you more, I am finding it hard too. To be honest I have no real clue what I'm doing lol.
Hey man if you want we can meet up in a server online and play and learn how to kill each other.

I had trouble controlling my squad lol...

[cantankerous]

Hey that sounds good actually. I wouldn't mind getting more into this game as I am sure it will be enjoyable once the frustration of being a noob goes away. Let me know what you have in mind and when.

[KoukiFC3S]

Here is a preview with some GRAW vids
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=245

[zakelwe]

It seems to me at present you can have more eye candy than normal but with some trade off in fps. Whether that is good enough to make you want to spend a lot of money that might be better put towards a better cpu or gpu is an interesting dilemma. Ati and nvidia are both talking about using second gpu's for physics and so you have to wonder whether this hardware solution can get enough market share to get more games to support it. Seems like a catch -22 situation to me. We all know Ati and nvidia push the software people money and expertise for their own chips so you'd imagine they'd do the same for physics as well.

It seems a difficult market to break into to me, especially at $200+

Regards

Andy

[FUGGER]

Ageia is about to post a new driver. I have been in contact with them and we can expect PCMark and GRAW performance issues to be resolved.

I am working on getting Ageia maufacture support here.

[ugp]

Ageia is about to post a new driver. I have been in contact with them and we can expect PCMark and GRAW performance issues to be resolved.

I am working on getting Ageia maufacture support here.
Sounds great...do you know when we as a consumer will be able to obtain one?

[cantankerous]

That is excellent news Fugger. Thank you ever so much for taking the initiative in getting this sorted. I sure hope it really is a driver issue and not the hardware falling short. I would love to see this thing succeed, I guess this new driver will tell all. Please keep us informed.

[creidiki]

Wont be buying one until they start using standard GPU mounting so i can WC it :P

[Negative Design]

Wont be buying one until they start using standard GPU mounting so i can WC it :P


Even if water cooling it will provide no performance?:nono:

[FUGGER]

These Agiea cards have same mounting as X1900/7900GT so water cooling stuff fits.

Working still on obtaining the overclocking utility.

128MB and 256MB versions perform exactly the same currently, card only uses 128MB. This is being fixed.

[spajdr]

where to buy card in Europe? anyone know? :-)

[Turok]

@Fugger

Since its going to take long before we start to see games that support Ageia and really take advantage of it, do you think Ageia could add a special driver that splits physics calculations on current games? Even if its not taking full advantage of the PPU since it may be in software mod, it will help a lot if the physics calculations are not loaded on the whole system.

If its possible to split the physics calculations from Half Life 2's Havok physics so its just calculated by the PPU isntead of the whole system by software mod, then moders and mappers can take advantage of the physics early by putting maps with a lot of physics meches or destructible objects.
For example, in Garry's mod it would help a lot, since Ive tryed spawning millions of watermelons and then I blow them up with barrels and explosives and my system cant process all that without lagging a bit. Would be nice to see those huge exploutions without lag ;)

Another thing they could do while PhysX ready games release is to split certain calculations to the PPU like a Dual-core. In Oblivion, it would help a lot if the PPU could calculate the grass and foilage and the physics while the CPU calculates AI and movements and other stuff, and the GPU calculates the 3D stuff...

[Negative Design]

I think a driver that splits physics would have to be on a game to game basis.And that would take ages to make and would require it to modidy the game its changing as all games have different physics engines.

Ageia cards will be compatible with havoc engines in the future though.

[mursaat]

Well we can only hope developers take this seriously and start releasing PPU (and DC) patches for their games instead leaving Ageia alone with all this work.

[IsraBUNG]

may be the problem is because the games still don't dupport the Ageia PhysX?
may be after the UT07 will come out we will see some real performance from the PhysX card?

[KoukiFC3S]

Yea, most of the physics in GRAW are still calculated by the CPU.
All the PPU does in it is add more debris, which don't even look good.

[NickS]

Wont be buying one until they start using standard GPU mounting so i can WC it :P

They do, identical mounting holes as GeForce 4 cards :)

Nick

[stone_cold_Jimi]

Just bought a 128MB version, should be here Monday or Tuesday. Now, where is Ghost Recon?

[ugp]

Just bought a 128MB version, should be here Monday or Tuesday. Now, where is Ghost Recon?
Where did you get it from???

[Negative Design]

According to froogle these things are starting to flow into the market...

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=ageia&btnG=Search+Froogle

[T2k]

These Agiea cards have same mounting as X1900/7900GT so water cooling stuff fits.


Mine only has two holes (well and a third one right next to one of these), it's rather like a GF4 mounting...


Working still on obtaining the overclocking utility.


Any news on this? I'm trying order a custom full-cover block for my PhysX - an OC util would be an excellent accessory... :D


128MB and 256MB versions perform exactly the same currently, card only uses 128MB. This is being fixed.

Last time AGEIA said there will be no 256MB cards for a while, despite their original claims, due to the lack of application to use it (and, I guess, for the sake of easier support during the rough first few months. ;)

[T2k]

According to froogle these things are starting to flow into the market...

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=ageia&btnG=Search+Froogle

Well, none of the 'real' shops list it in stock... and $300+ shipping? :eek: Heck, mine was $250 (plus some extra for my accountant who ordered an XPS instead of a cheaper Dimension ;)) from Dell...

[cupra]

I am working on getting Ageia maufacture support here.


that will be great fugger :toast:

[T2k]

that will be great fugger :toast:

Seconded. :toast:

[T2k]

BTW CellFactor demo is available via AGEIA's website - but it crashes on 32-bit machines here and won't install at all on x64 ones. :( Where's that AGEIA support?

[-Acid-]

BTW CellFactor demo is available via AGEIA's website - but it crashes on 32-bit machines here and won't install at all on x64 ones. :( Where's that AGEIA support?


That demo requires a PPu to run could this be the start of future games, just like earlie days when you needed a 3dfx card to run a game.

Ocuk has them for sale right now mine should be on its way :D

[Negative Design]

Well, none of the 'real' shops list it in stock... and $300+ shipping? :eek: Heck, mine was $250 (plus some extra for my accountant who ordered an XPS instead of a cheaper Dimension ;)) from Dell...



I stand corrected lol.
the demo can be played without the ppu but it aint pretty :(

[ULJarad]

Looks great and runs fine without one. :)

[T2k]

Mine gets really-really HOT. How is everybody else's Physx card?

We took it out of an always-open Antec mid-tower case and minutes later it still burned our fingers.

[cantankerous]

wow, one thing that bothers me about these cards is the lack of a temperature diode as well as a throttable fan. For the price of these cards I really think they could have afforded the pennies it would have taken to bulk order and incorporate a temperature diode so we at least know how these things are running temperature wise. There are more than a handful of monitoring programs out there that could have monitored that diode to the end user. The tray icon that is installed with the kit could have had a tab for temperature readout as well. With that being said when the card isn't in use or gets above a certain threshold in temperature the fan should be throttable either by itself or changeable from the end user to offset noise vs. heat when need be. I think its really lacking having these two things missing from a $300 card that really doesn't do much out of the box not to mention makes every system suffer fps wise when the card is in use.

[stone_cold_Jimi]

Where did you get it from???

Overclockers co uk. It arrived today. CellFactor demo downloaded, Ghost Recon 3 just posted from Play, I'm about good to go. :D

[God_Lx]

I stand corrected lol.
the demo can be played without the ppu but it aint pretty :(

It aint pretty ? Check out a friend of mine ;) Sorry the low res, it's because of the size...

ftp://ftp.ua.pt/incoming/Helix/PACK%20CELLFACTOR%202.zip

[T2k]

wow, one thing that bothers me about these cards is the lack of a temperature diode as well as a throttable fan. For the price of these cards I really think they could have afforded the pennies it would have taken to bulk order and incorporate a temperature diode so we at least know how these things are running temperature wise. There are more than a handful of monitoring programs out there that could have monitored that diode to the end user. The tray icon that is installed with the kit could have had a tab for temperature readout as well. With that being said when the card isn't in use or gets above a certain threshold in temperature the fan should be throttable either by itself or changeable from the end user to offset noise vs. heat when need be. I think its really lacking having these two things missing from a $300 card that really doesn't do much out of the box not to mention makes every system suffer fps wise when the card is in use.

Yep, I'm building my new rig and this is the main reason I've got not only a TR-3 3.5" thermo LCD unit for my new Lian-Li V1000B Plus but another L.I.S 2 Premium 5.25" VFD unit - I want not only performance and silence but safety as well.

[stone_cold_Jimi]

Well, it's in and I've been playing the CellFactor demo - it's pretty damn awesome tbh, real "next level" graphics and all (kind of FEAR++). Heh, if you play it, get the psi boost syringe and go gaga mental lol. Anyway, first hardware obs...

Heat. I don't know how hot the Physx card gets, but my 7800GTs run about 20C hotter than otherwise. There is some serious data getting thrown around the system - I had one total lockup in the first 10 minutes of playing, but it was fine after a reboot, played on for about 25 minutes. I really want them to put a temp diode on the Aegia though.

Like the anandtech review said, there's a stop-frame effect as things explode in game; I don't know if that's a game programming thing or if the PCI bus just can't handle the load. Anyway, Ghost Recon 3 should arrive this week, I'll see how a finished game behaves.

[T2k]

You mean GRAW? Uh, that's just a joke, seriously. Physx is not involved in anything but simply produces some extra effect particles - exactly what doesn't matter at all. :( Apart from this GRAW has no AA whatsoever - currently looks impossible due to its retarded engine - but also doesn't allow you to scale higher than 1280 if you don't have the latest VGA... clearly a totally :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed up game, I'd frikkin fire the person who made these idiotic decisions. :(
When I learned these things (try the demo), I gave up my preordered copy at Gamestop - I don't need another $50 crap to collect the dust on my shelf...

[ULJarad]

Apart from this GRAW has no AA whatsoever - currently looks impossible due to its retarded engine

Retarded engine, or you simply have insuffecient hardware? :D Before you get defensive, realize that GRAW is an X360 port which uses a more advanced GPU than what we use in computers. The engine implements MRT, Multiple Render Targets, and deferred lighting. I believe DX10 will use this technology more extensively. AA is possible in GRAW, but it'd bring a quad-SLI system to its knees using today's standard of GPU technology.

but also doesn't allow you to scale higher than 1280 if you don't have the latest VGA... clearly a totally :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed up game,
FEAR and Quake 4 do the same thing. If you have insufficient hardware, it won't let you choose settings that probably won't run well. Quake 4 requires a 512mb to run 1600x1200 or Ultra quality with 256mb card, FEAR gives you a warning if you go above 1600x1200 and use AA. If you feel up to the challenge of proving them wrong, go edit the config. I had to get my 1680x1050 and 1.6:1 ratio working. At least GRAW lets you choose whatever ratio you like. Think of it as a way of preventing people using the wrong resolution on the wrong monitor. Do you know how many people use 1280x1024 (5:4) on 4:3 CRTs? :nono:

[lolomfgkthxbai]

Would anyone with a PPU mind testing <a href="http://pp.kpnet.fi/andreasm/physx/">this.</a> I used fraps to see my fps, and my 2600+ AXP gets 1 fps with physics on and ~55 fps with physics off. :p:

It's pretty plain-looking, but it has a huge number of boxes.

[stone_cold_Jimi]

"d3dx9_29.dll not found"

Also, with SLI on, my fonts have gone blobby exactly halfway down the screen :(

[ULJarad]

Idk why it can't find it itself, but search for d3dx9_29.dll in your Windows\System32 folder and copy&paste it in the bin folder with the .exe. I get 55spf (seconds per frame :D)

[lolomfgkthxbai]

If you get the "d3dx9_29.dll not found" error you might need to update your directx to the <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en">april 2006 version.</a>

[lolomfgkthxbai]

Idk why it can't find it itself, but search for d3dx9_29.dll in your Windows\System32 folder and copy&paste it in the bin folder with the .exe. I get 55spf (seconds per frame :D)

Is that without a PPU? If it is, I guess it's time to ditch my trusty AXP for a A64X2 :)

EDIT: Doh, I need to learn how to read. :D

[ULJarad]

If you get the "d3dx9_29.dll not found" error you might need to update your directx to the <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=2DA43D38-DB71-4C1B-BC6A-9B6652CD92A3&displaylang=en">april 2006 version.</a>
I have all the updates and d3dx9_29.dll was in the x\System32 folder, it just wasn't reading it. Copying d3dx9_29.dll to the x\bin solved the problem.

Is that without a PPU? If it is, I guess it's time to ditch my trusty AXP for a A64X2 :)

EDIT: Doh, I need to learn how to read. :D
I actually have an Opteron 170 now. 4400+ died, RIP.

FRAPS yields (2.5 minute run, shot one ball from starting position and waited - performance slowly got better)
2006-05-10 03:31:11 - cubewall
Frames: 638 - Time: 150633ms - Avg: 4.235 - Min: 1 - Max: 6

[lolomfgkthxbai]

"d3dx9_29.dll not found"

Also, with SLI on, my fonts have gone blobby exactly halfway down the screen :(

There's now a new version which includes a script that copies the missing file from c:\windows\system32 to the bin directory. But try reinstalling directx with microsoft's web installer first. As for the SLI problem, I'm not sure what the cause is, does a reboot fix it? :(

[comment]

These Agiea cards have same mounting as X1900/7900GT so water cooling stuff fits.

Working still on obtaining the overclocking utility.

128MB and 256MB versions perform exactly the same currently, card only uses 128MB. This is being fixed.Any news on the OC utility, FUGGER?

Would you mind sharing where you're getting it from?

[Winterwind]

pay 300$ for card that doesnt even have temp monitoring and which is hot and noisy..
all that for 2 games that are bit more "playable" or should i say u see more sh*t flying around if u blow something up..

that card is really pointless right now..
maybe in future it will be cheaper, colder and have temp chip on it..
and maybe then it theres a point of buying one

and why oc it? how can u tell that it is slow? imho u cant

[comment]

and why oc it? how can u tell that it is slow? imho u cantIf you don't try, you don't know. Apart from that: Anything that can be overclocked, should be! This is XtremeSystems...

[Winterwind]

anyone oc-ing monitors or hard drives?:p:
yes, it can be oc-d but why? cos then ull get warmer room?:)

[Sc4mpi]

Got mine rigged up and plumbed in yesterday

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/Sc4mpi/ppu.jpg

The mounting holes use the gf4 ones. but they dont fit very well the core isent centered instead it sits 6mm to the left only the edge of the block sits on the core :(, i found if you use 2 of the 6800mounts, the blocks sits at a slight angle but it sits smack bang on the core. if theres any tests or benchys need running give us a shout :)

[Negative Design]

anyone oc-ing monitors or hard drives?:p:



Speak for yourself I'm running Ln2 on all my hard drives and my monitor is water cooled!:banana: :stick:

I wish...lol

[lolomfgkthxbai]

Got mine rigged up and plumbed in yesterday

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/Sc4mpi/ppu.jpg

The mounting holes use the gf4 ones. but they dont fit very well the core isent centered instead it sits 6mm to the left only the edge of the block sits on the core :(, i found if you use 2 of the 6800mounts, the blocks sits at a slight angle but it sits smack bang on the core. if theres any tests or benchys need running give us a shout :)

<a href="http://pp.kpnet.fi/andreasm/physx/">/me shouting</a> :)

[stone_cold_Jimi]

There's now a new version which includes a script that copies the missing file from c:\windows\system32 to the bin directory. But try reinstalling directx with microsoft's web installer first. As for the SLI problem, I'm not sure what the cause is, does a reboot fix it? :(

Thanks, that's sorted. I need to set up fraps or maybe RivaTuner will do the framerate. The blobby thing did disappear after a reboot; I also need to upgrade my gfx driver from 81.98 which, I think, is causing some issues.

Edit: yes, upgraded to the latest nVidia drivers, no more problems... per-pixel blur works with decent framerates now. OMG, CellFactor pwns... hope they carry it through to release, because it's.. it's..:eek2:

[Sc4mpi]

<a href="http://pp.kpnet.fi/andreasm/physx/">/me shouting</a> :)

I ran that program heres teh piccys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/Sc4mpi/nonppu.jpg << without the ppu running

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/Sc4mpi/withppu.jpg << with the ppu.

note the cpu usage when the ageia was running was only 3-4% the rest was messenger than the program.
:)

[ULJarad]

I take it also ran very well? An AthlonXP with the PPU got 55fps, what'd you get with the PPU? Please tell!

[lolomfgkthxbai]

I take it also ran very well? An AthlonXP with the PPU got 55fps, what'd you get with the PPU? Please tell!

Actually, I don't have a PPU, the 55 fps is with physics off (P pauses the physics). :)

I ran that program heres teh piccys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/Sc4mpi/nonppu.jpg << without the ppu running

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/Sc4mpi/withppu.jpg << with the ppu.

note the cpu usage when the ageia was running was only 3-4% the rest was messenger than the program.
:)

Thanks, what fps did you get? Seems like the PPU is at least ~100 times faster than my AXP at physics. :eek: Guess it's time to start upgrading. :D

[stone_cold_Jimi]

Heh, I've posted over there when I should have posted here. Anyway, the grisly truth:

http://forums.hexus.net/showpost.php?p=763107&postcount=49

Is that framerate true for SLI? I'm not fully convinced, but it could be true.

[stone_cold_Jimi]

Err... does this card actually do anything? Out of curiousity, I left the Aegia drivers in and took the card out, launched CellFactor with EnablePhysX=false, I can't tell the difference. Framerates the same, effects the same.

:hm: LOL !!!1!1

[ULJarad]

Err... does this card actually do anything? Out of curiousity, I left the Aegia drivers in and took the card out, launched CellFactor with EnablePhysX=false, I can't tell the difference. Framerates the same, effects the same.

:hm: LOL !!!1!1
Try this??? (http://pp.kpnet.fi/andreasm/physx/)

[jetjaguar]

i got mine the other day .. put it in .. played cellfactor .. its really badass ..

not sure if im gonna keep it .. have 30 days to return it ..

so there is absolutely no way to tell how hot its running ??

also on my expert dfi board .. its getting very tight with my ppu .. sli'd 512 7800gtxs and xfi soundcard:stick:

[ULJarad]

i got mine the other day .. put it in .. played cellfactor .. its really badass ..

not sure if im gonna keep it .. have 30 days to return it ..

so there is absolutely no way to tell how hot its running ??

also on my expert dfi board .. its getting very tight with my ppu .. sli'd 512 7800gtxs and xfi soundcard:stick:
Check my post above yours. If it's working, you should not see 1-3fps. :D Please do tell what performance you get with it though! I think the card will be great but these little demos, Cellfactor, and GRAW don't justify it. UT2k7 won't be here until fall, but it'll be worth it when it does get here.

[STEvil]

xp-m 1800+ @ stock
1gb of DDR @ 133mhz? ?-?-?-?
integrated ati 320m.

Here is a place to get that missing DLL (it wasnt even on my system!)
http://www.toymaker.info/Games/html/d3dx_dlls.html

- downloading phys-x drivers.. results will be updated. friend on a 4400+ @ 2.6 was getting ~100fps+ judging by how smooth it ran.

edit - not working, trying a reboot.
edit - wont work, darn.

[stone_cold_Jimi]

Try this??? (http://pp.kpnet.fi/andreasm/physx/)

3-5 fps, with the 2.4.2 driver. Why do I feel that the 2.4.3 beta switches off the card and does it all with the CPU.... :rolleyes:

ok, 16-19 fps with 2.4.3 beta. I'll have to pull the card to check - with the Ageia demo (red and blue boxes), I got 60 fps with hardware.... and 60 fps with software after I pulled the card.

[STEvil]

3-5 fps, with the 2.4.2 driver. Why do I feel that the 2.4.3 beta switches off the card and does it all with the CPU.... :rolleyes:

ok, 16-19 fps with 2.4.3 beta. I'll have to pull the card to check - with the Ageia demo (red and blue boxes), I got 60 fps with hardware.... and 60 fps with software after I pulled the card.

that 100fps demo on the 4400+ was with the standard boxes test that comes with the ageia drivers. Even runs 30fps+ on this laptop.

[stone_cold_Jimi]

More results.

CellFactor 1280x1024 nVidia global settings at default except SLI, Fraps measurements, verified with RivaTuner:

PPU enabled, SLI enabled = ~20fps
PPU disabled, SLI enabled = ~20fps ("EnablePhysX=false")
PPU enabled, SLI disabled = ~20fps
PPU disabled, SLI disabled = ~20fps
PPU removed, SLI disabled = ~20fps

What does that say? The only thing that was missing with the card removed was cloth effects. Plug the card in and disable it, you still get cloth effects. Card = cloth effect dongle.

What am I doing wrong?

[ULJarad]

If you run it with the high detail executable the results will be gpu dependent. Do lowest detail as they do for testing CPU performance.

3-5 fps, with the 2.4.2 driver. Why do I feel that the 2.4.3 beta switches off the card and does it all with the CPU.... :rolleyes:

ok, 16-19 fps with 2.4.3 beta. I'll have to pull the card to check - with the Ageia demo (red and blue boxes), I got 60 fps with hardware.... and 60 fps with software after I pulled the card.
Use the demo you quoted me linking to. Also, your framerate was limited to 60fps in both cases probably because of vsync on turn it off when benching.

[stone_cold_Jimi]

If you run it with the high detail executable the results will be gpu dependent. Do lowest detail as they do for testing CPU performance.

Use the demo you quoted me linking to. Also, your framerate was limited to 60fps in both cases probably because of vsync on turn it off when benching.

If it was GPU dependent, why does SLI make no difference?

The cubewall demo is the only one that reveals that something might be working - >5 fps in software, >19 fps in hardware. I disabled vsync completely, still got 60 fps flatlined in the Ageia demo.

The point is, really, that these demos and CellFactor itself should show a marked improvement using PhysX. What I find really odd is how little the difference is between hardware and software physics, even in the anandtech tests with a different processor. It's as if the hardware is entirely CPU dependent. :confused:

[J-Mag]

If it was GPU dependent, why does SLI make no difference?


Did you force a specific SLI mode like SFR / AFR / AFR2 ? I don't think there is a profile for cellfactor in any released drivers...

[mursaat]

The cubewall demo is the only one that reveals that something might be working - >5 fps in software, >19 fps in hardware. I disabled vsync completely, still got 60 fps flatlined in the Ageia demo.Maybe you have selected the Windows desktop framerate to 60hz. With LCDs it's the default option, if you haven't changed it it will probably be at 60hz, and some programs (I don't know how) stay capped with desktop refresh.

It happened to me with CrystalMark, in D3D and OGL tests the max was 60hz. I selected 75hz and voilÃ:banana: 75FPS :D

I think it has something to do with LCDs, because recently I bought a CRT. I use it 1400x1050 85hz, but CrystalMark has no FPS cap :confused:

[ULJarad]

If it was GPU dependent, why does SLI make no difference?
There is no SLI profile for it. Did you try a custom one like JMag suggested?