XP-M or Barton Core?

[XyBeRz]

I wanted to see what you guys would recommend for my setup? Someone told me to get an XP Mobile CPU as they run less power and overclock very well compare to the Barton cores. I want to get the highest overclock possible but not sure which one would give me the best results of of the two types of chips.

Mobo - Abit NF7-S v2.0
Video - eVGA 6800 Ultra Extreme w/256MB Video Ram AGP
Sound - Sounblaster X-FI Xtreme
Ram - Still Undecided but it will be 2GB

I know that the NF7-S v2.0 board can take CPUs with up to 400Mhz FSB but I'm not sure how far it can overclock, but I guess that all depends on the CPU and RAM.

[Raybo]

I wanted to see what you guys would recommend for my setup? Someone told me to get an XP Mobile CPU as they run less power and overclock very well compare to the Barton cores. I want to get the highest overclock possible but not sure which one would give me the best results of of the two types of chips.

Mobo - Abit NF7-S v2.0
Video - eVGA 6800 Ultra Extreme w/256MB Video Ram AGP
Sound - Sounblaster X-FI Xtreme
Ram - Still Undecided but it will be 2GB

I know that the NF7-S v2.0 board can take CPUs with up to 400Mhz FSB but I'm not sure how far it can overclock, but I guess that all depends on the CPU and RAM.

You might run into major problems with 2 gigs of ram.

OTOH, I would recommend an XP-M. :thumbsup:

[Spazilton]

I wanted to see what you guys would recommend for my setup? Someone told me to get an XP Mobile CPU as they run less power and overclock very well compare to the Barton cores. I want to get the highest overclock possible but not sure which one would give me the best results of of the two types of chips.

Mobo - Abit NF7-S v2.0
Video - eVGA 6800 Ultra Extreme w/256MB Video Ram AGP
Sound - Sounblaster X-FI Xtreme
Ram - Still Undecided but it will be 2GB

I know that the NF7-S v2.0 board can take CPUs with up to 400Mhz FSB but I'm not sure how far it can overclock, but I guess that all depends on the CPU and RAM.

Just to be clear most XP-Ms are Barton Cores. Look for a 2400+ or better with 512k .

The XP-Ms are very good processors overall. The 2400+ I had did 12x200 with no problems whatsoever.

[XyBeRz]

You might run into major problems with 2 gigs of ram.

Why would I run into major problems with 2 gigs of ram? The board can take a max of 2GB with 400Mhz DDR ram.
Sorry, I've never read anything regarding that before.


Just to be clear most XP-Ms are Barton Cores. Look for a 2400+ or better with 512k .

The XP-Ms are very good processors overall. The 2400+ I had did 12x200 with no problems whatsoever.

I just found out that most of the Barton cores are locked and there are very few that are unlocked. If they are locked, doesn't that mean that they won't overclock nearly as much as the unlocked chips? I've also read that you can't unlock the new CPUs, even with the wire, crossing the brides, etc. tricks. Is that all true?

[VulgarHandle]

xp-m are barton cores, they are UNlocked, the nf7-s 2.0 is a good board, except for memory voltage(killed mine doing the memory voltage mod :( )

you will have NO problems with 2x1gb stix, I've tested and have ordered 2x1gb G.Skill 2gbzx[ddr400 speeds ran at 2-3-2-5 1T(better bandwidth @ 2-3-2-11, damn nf2 mem controller), and ddr500 speeds ran at 3-4-3-8(again, better bandwidth @ 3-4-3-11), all ran @ 2.7v]

I suggest air for 2.0-2.4, and water for 2.4-2.8(assumed 24/7 rig)
and of course vapo for anything if u can afford it, no cold bug :D

EDITED!!!!

[XyBeRz]

xp-m are barton cores, they are UNlocked, the nf7-s 2.0 is a good board, except for memory voltage(killed mine doing the memory voltage mod :( )

you will have NO problems with 2x1gb stix, I've tested and have ordered 2x1gb G.Skill 2gbzx

I suggest air for 2.0-2.4, and water for 2.4-2.8(assumed 24/7 rig)
and of course vapo for anything if u can afford it, no cold bug :D

Whew, that's good to know. Are there specific steppings I should look for with the XP-M CPU's? It's really cool that they come unlocked unlike the regular desktop cores. It's a pain in the butt to try to unlock them.

The really funny thing is that my current XP 1600+ is overclocking to about 2.1ghz on just air and running stable at around 41C and only upping the voltage from 1.65 to 1.75v. How much difference does having a 512K L2 and 128K L1 cache make?
In all honesty, that's a major overclock, and being on just air it's pretty damn amazing, considering it's stock speed is about 1.47ghz.

[VulgarHandle]

well, i have no idea what the current good steppings are, in fact, kudos to you for finding some xp-m's to buy(at least, from a reputable dealer)

just note: look for a good bios for it, i'll do a search to see if i can find you one(might even still have the one i was using)

[andyisc00l]

Why not just get amd64? I was gonna get xp-m system a while ago but for the price you pay its still relatively expensive

[-Acid-]

Mxp mate check

[XyBeRz]

Why not just get amd64? I was gonna get xp-m system a while ago but for the price you pay its still relatively expensive

Actually the reason why is that the XP-M processors overclock VERY well at start at lower voltages than the regular desktop processors. Also they come unlocked straight from the factory. Plus the fact that I will have to buy a new mobo! I don't have enough money as it is and this computer is only for a little while until I upgrade to a dual core setups and just skip the 64 CPUs.
So it's kinda a best bang for my buck right now.
Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Gothic]

Whew, that's good to know. Are there specific steppings I should look for with the XP-M CPU's?

The very best XP-m are the 2600+ IQYHA 05XX XPMW... they use to do 2.6Ghz @ 1.800~1.825v primeable

[Gothic]

Just to be clear most XP-Ms are Barton Cores. Look (...)

Yeah, just like you said. Not ALL of them as there are some Mobiles Tbred Bs. But if it is a 2200+ or higher, they are Barton ones.

[Miwo]

IQYHAs were the best like Gothic said...very easy to pull 2.6GHz on those!

I remember buying 2 XP-Ms from Newegg a long time ago in hopes of getting an IQYHA stepping for my new mobile barton setup. Ended up getting 2 AQYFAs that barely did 2.5GHz on 2.00v :(

[XyBeRz]

Would the IQYHA stepping be good in the 2400 - 2600+ CPUs or only the 2600+?

[Gothic]

For all of them!

The 2600+ are known to clock a bit better

If you're going for the 2400+, trey getting an AXM2400FJQ4C, also known as 35W, with 1.35v

And also, "XPMW" IQYHAs are the best.

[XyBeRz]

Must give out a thanks to everyone for sharing this great info! It's exactly what I needed as I wasn't sure on what to get. Luckily the mobile CPUs aren't that expensive on Ebay so I can get a great deal for a great overclocker!
I have just been checking the forums and I've seen some people achieve over 2800Mhz! I'm wondering though, what speed ram would I then be able to run since the FSB can be increased a really good amount?

[XyBeRz]

For all of them!

The 2600+ are known to clock a bit better

If you're going for the 2400+, trey getting an AXM2400FJQ4C, also known as 35W, with 1.35v

And also, "XPMW" IQYHAs are the best.

Hard to find 35W cores :(

[Gothic]

Hard to find 35W cores :(

Yeah.. but IMO, 45W (1.45v) 2600 IQYHA XPMW are the best!

[GMX]

For all of them!

The 2600+ are known to clock a bit better

If you're going for the 2400+, trey getting an AXM2400FJQ4C, also known as 35W, with 1.35v

And also, "XPMW" IQYHAs are the best.

RPMW and MPMW are just as good. SPMW is up there too.

I would definately put R ahead of X.

IDYHA early 05/ late 0440+ arn't bad either.

Best are around late 03 and early 04.

[Gothic]

Well... the fact is that we don't see much MPMWs at good clocks and not that high volts...

My IDYHA 0502 RPMW just sucks.... she's good up to 2.4ghz (1.65v needed), than become a VERY power hungry cpu...

[Spazilton]

The very best XP-m are the 2600+ IQYHA 05XX XPMW... they use to do 2.6Ghz @ 1.800~1.825v primeable

1.8 - 1.825 is way too much vcore imo for a Mobile Barton

[GMX]

1.8 - 1.825 is way too much vcore imo for a Mobile Barton


Are you joking?

My 2600+ BARTON is sitting at 1.97v for over a year! And i've run it up to 2.35v on air.

Two of my XP-M have been fed over 1.95v and gone on strong.

[Morgoth]

I have run two bartons.

First, locked 2600+ KQYHA@2545 1.97v
Second XP-M 2500+ IQYHA 0407VPMW@2693 (2v, but ram limiting too)

Never had any die or degrade from too much vcore, I ran the first cpu on 1.9v-2v for the better part of a year no worries
the second I ran for months on 1.9-2v before i upgraded.

2v is fine if you can cool it.

[don_vercetti]

yeah bartons are tough little buggers. As are t-breds, actually, i've had a DLT3C for about two years running on high voltages (1.8v+) on air and it's running great.

If you get an XP-M on the NF7, and you want to run high FSB's, you will need to do the L12 mod. It's quite simple, just involves sticking a piece of wire in two pins in the socket, can't remember which, but there are pics of it here and there.

Without the L12 mod, you will struggle to break 215mhz. With it, you should make 260mhz or so with the right ram.

[XyBeRz]

Without the L12 mod, you will struggle to break 215mhz. With it, you should make 260mhz or so with the right ram.

What speed ram should I use if I'm able to push it up to 260mhz? I'm assuming ram that would hit about 520mhz correct?

[Gothic]

What speed ram should I use if I'm able to push it up to 260mhz? I'm assuming ram that would hit about 520mhz correct?

Yeah, always use 1:1 FSB:RAM ratio... other than that you'll get your bios corrupted with ease...

[don_vercetti]

assuming you wanna hit 260mhz, yeah. That was just an arbitrary figure i pulled out of the air though. You would be lucky to find RAM that could run that high on NF2, i think.

And yeah, you MUST use 1:1 ratios. I dunno about BIOS corruption, but certainly stuff will not work very fast at anything other than 1:1 (or 6:6, 5:5, etc, as is in the NF7 bios)

[Gothic]

Well.. duno in the nf7... but on 8RDAs and LPA/B, they won't allow the computer to boot at all...i think these dividers work ok for non overclocked buses...

[XyBeRz]

assuming you wanna hit 260mhz, yeah. That was just an arbitrary figure i pulled out of the air though. You would be lucky to find RAM that could run that high on NF2, i think.

And yeah, you MUST use 1:1 ratios. I dunno about BIOS corruption, but certainly stuff will not work very fast at anything other than 1:1 (or 6:6, 5:5, etc, as is in the NF7 bios)

Got any ideas on what ram would be good to push that high? I know that the NF7 is rated only to 400Mhz effective speeds. Also I understand that I'll probably have to do a volt mod for the ram because the board doesn't push it high enough to get it near 260mhz.

Also I have another question. Would an ASUS K8V-MX S754 USB 2.0 FSB 800 RAID MOTHERBOARD
AMD Athlon 64 Mobile 2800+ Socket 754 35W be better than an Abit NF7-S v2.0 & XP-M 2400+ 35W? I'm assuming it would.

[oicurafox2000]

Also I have another question. Would an ASUS K8V-MX S754 USB 2.0 FSB 800 RAID MOTHERBOARD
AMD Athlon 64 Mobile 2800+ Socket 754 35W be better than an Abit NF7-S v2.0 & XP-M 2400+ 35W? I'm assuming it would.

Yes,by a long shot. The Sempron64 2800+,matched with the BioStar TForce 6100,will easily get you to 2.8GHz,and destroy any socket 462 system. I've had six Sempron64's now,all but one (which was a Paris core)OC'ed to at least 2.7GHz stable.

[don_vercetti]

yeah i'd take a sempron 754. Getting a good deal?

[XyBeRz]

Maybe, hopefully. Still waiting to see at the moment. I'll let ya guys know tomorrow on that.
What's the difference though? Is it only the slightly faster core speed of 1.8ghz, 64bit CPU, and of course the 35W? I really didn't find much on the CPU as for overclocking. The info on the CPU is:

AMD2800BQX4AX
1059D21I40118
CBAUC 0429 UPMW

The best I found so far was about 2.5ghz, not too encouraging considering the 2400+ XP-M can go faster than this.

Anyone got any ideas why?

[don_vercetti]

Three words: Integrated Memory Controller.

This gives the sempron a huge advantage over any barton core cpu.

[XyBeRz]

Three words: Integrated Memory Controller.

This gives the sempron a huge advantage over any barton core cpu.

I just read what that's about on AMD's website. So basically it allow quicker access to the ram from the CPU by allowing the CPU direct control to it. How much more of a performance boost does it make?

[MeltedDuron]

a huge perf. boost... my friends 754 rig totally whips what my old AXP did, sure with 754 you lose dual channel, but make up for it in raw power. Also why hasn't anyone mentioned intel in this thread? They make CPU's too ya' know!

[XyBeRz]

That's a relief to know. I think that I'll be able to score a good deal on the setup I mentioned earlier, probably better price than the original XP-M with the Abit NF7-S v2.0 mobo. They seem to be over inflated at the moment as everyone is looking for that stuff.
I didn't realize you lose dual channel memory with the socket 754, but hey it won't matter if I gain more speed. Isn't dimms more expensive than simms anyway? Plus I don't have to purchase 2 chips, just 1 at a time, so saves me a little bit more money upfront.
Just wondering, is the ASUS K8V-MX S754 USB 2.0 FSB 800 Raid motherboard one of the best for the socket 754, if not the best?
If I'm going to shell out money for a really good CPU, I might as well pickup the mobo with it.
Sorry one more question, what ram would be good to go with it?
I've been a little bit back on the times and not informed about all the newer stuff than Athlons. Yes I know, I've been very sheltered to the overclocking community and computers in general for quite a little while.:p:

[don_vercetti]

best 754 mobo is the DFI NF3 250gb. The MSI range was also pretty ninja, iirc. I think the Asus K8V-MX was ok, never owned one though.

[VulgarHandle]

yeah bartons are tough little buggers. As are t-breds, actually, i've had a DLT3C for about two years running on high voltages (1.8v+) on air and it's running great.

If you get an XP-M on the NF7, and you want to run high FSB's, you will need to do the L12 mod. It's quite simple, just involves sticking a piece of wire in two pins in the socket, can't remember which, but there are pics of it here and there.

Without the L12 mod, you will struggle to break 215mhz. With it, you should make 260mhz or so with the right ram.


while the L12 mod is true, any GOOD modded bios has it done(L12 softmod), i.e. d27 mantaray, or pretty much any bios put out by tic-tac or merlin

[XyBeRz]

my friends 754 rig totally whips what my old AXP did, sure with 754 you lose dual channel, but make up for it in raw power. Also why hasn't anyone mentioned intel in this thread? They make CPU's too ya' know!

Sorry wasn't quite sure what you meant when you said I'd lose dual channel. You meant the capability to operate in dual channel memory mode? I'm guessing that since the way the 64 CPUs are designed, it allows for more bandwith and CPU control over the memory, so in the end even though the dual channel operation is lost, because of the new architechure, it increases in speed.

[VulgarHandle]

nf3 250gb + sempron(preferably w/ 256k L2) will pretty well blow anything you can do w/ socket A away, not to mention keep your vid card, keep your ram, and keep your power supply

but, if you run oem windows, don't forget to buy a new one of those too, unless you can talk your way out of it w/ a windows tech guy(which i've done before :D )

[XyBeRz]

The Athlon Mobile 64 2800+ has the NewCastle core with 512k L2 cache. Better than the Sempron 256k no? :D

[VulgarHandle]

there's also a venice 3000+ on s754, even better

EDIT:what i mean to say is, are you looking for bang for buck, or a whole new system?

[Raybo]

What speed ram should I use if I'm able to push it up to 260mhz? I'm assuming ram that would hit about 520mhz correct?

That's what I was getting at, that kinda FSB ain't going to happen with 2 gigs.

[VulgarHandle]

That's what I was getting at, that kinda FSB ain't going to happen with 2 gigs.


why not? i've tested and ordered G.Skill 2GBZX on my nf2, and easily dialed in 250 @ 3-4-3-8, i didn't test higher

[XyBeRz]

there's also a venice 3000+ on s754, even better

EDIT:what i mean to say is, are you looking for bang for buck, or a whole new system?

Sorry, I meant that I might get a better deal on the AMD 64 setup than the AMD XP setup, so cheaper and faster would definately be better. I'm kinda overhauling my system. Damn, by the time I'm done, I'll probably have a whole new system! :lol:
You know how that goes. ;)

[MeltedDuron]

good NF2's top out at around 240-255, good luck getting a chipset that'll do 260 or higher

[XyBeRz]

That's what I was getting at, that kinda FSB ain't going to happen with 2 gigs.

With really good ram like OCZ I should probably be able to hit that without any problems.

[don_vercetti]

while the L12 mod is true, any GOOD modded bios has it done(L12 softmod), i.e. d27 mantaray, or pretty much any bios put out by tic-tac or merlin

Maybe it was just me, but i never found the L12 softmod was as consistant as just sticking a pin in the two holes.

Anyway, we're onto 754 now, so NF2 discussion is moot (but interesting).

[Raybo]

With really good ram like OCZ I should probably be able to hit that without any problems.

NF2's are notorious for not doing well with double sided sticks, just don't want you to be dissapointed.

Good luck.

:toast:

[XyBeRz]

NF2's are notorious for not doing well with double sided sticks, just don't want you to be dissapointed.

Good luck.

:toast:

Thanks for the tip. It will definately come in handy when I'm trying to pick out some quality ram. Any suggestions on what brand and model? I'd like to push the system as much as possible, and using good ram makes a difference. BTW, I'll be watercooling the setup, maybe or maybe not with a water chiller setup and TEC. Still in the works but we'll see where it goes. ;)

[Raybo]

You have PM Xy.

[VulgarHandle]

from mobile barton to TEC + water chiller form s754, and away we go

just know that a64's don't scale as well from air to water like axp's and pentiums

[XyBeRz]

from mobile barton to TEC + water chiller form s754, and away we go

just know that a64's don't scale as well from air to water like axp's and pentiums


Really? Darn, but it still should help though right? I figure the colder the chip can run the better. The water cooled, TEC, water chiller setup was already in the works before I even decided to upgrade. I have some parts, but need a little bit more, along with more research. :D

[VulgarHandle]

oh definitely it'll run better/faster w/ water/chiller/tec, just not as big a percentage gain to be found on axp's and pentiums

[XyBeRz]

Oh okay, just making sure. I don't mind that the gains from the setup won't be as big because my main concern is the temps. I am glad though of the speeds I'll be able to achieve just having a better system anyway compared to the one I have now.

[Gothic]

That's true... Me and my friend got a good watercooler set on his 3200+ Venice, nad we went from 2.75Ghz to 2.84Ghz.. 90MHz gain for a cooling system wich costs 4x more than the previous... anyway, now it's easier to put it under the chiller!

[XyBeRz]

That's true... Me and my friend got a good watercooler set on his 3200+ Venice, nad we went from 2.75Ghz to 2.84Ghz.. 90MHz gain for a cooling system wich costs 4x more than the previous... anyway, now it's easier to put it under the chiller!

That really isn't that much of a gain considering how much the system proabably costs. But like I said, at least you'll know your CPU won't overheat now. :woot:

[soundx98]

These may help ya

http://fab51.com/cpu/guide/opn-xp-e.html

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98///Vcore-L12-Mod-copy.jpg

[XyBeRz]

These may help ya

http://fab51.com/cpu/guide/opn-xp-e.html

http://premium1.uploadit.org/soundx98///Vcore-L12-Mod-copy.jpg

Thanks. I've actually been to both webpages already though. It's good to have a link anyway, in case I end up losing it. :doh:

[XyBeRz]

Okay, an update. I now own 2 CPU's! :D

I picked up an XP Mobile 2400+ 35W CPU w AQYHA0413 Stepping

Also I got the AMD Athlon 64 Mobile 2800+ 35W CBAUC Stepping

Trying to pickup that DFI UT N3 250GB board, but unfortuantely no one is really selling it seperate on Ebay right now. I guess I'll have to wait a bit on that.

I do have a question though. I understand that both CPU's can get up to 2.8Ghz and both havbe 512k L2 Cache, but because of the new memory controller on the 64, it's supposed to be faster? How come it doesn't reflect in the total speed of the CPU? It's very unfortuante that nowadays just looking at the highest Ghz isn't the way to determine how fast the computer really is. :confused:

[GMX]

It's very unfortuante that nowadays just looking at the highest Ghz isn't the way to determine how fast the computer really is. :confused:


That's was the problem in the first place. You have to understand it's not like that. Perhaps researching on the net more about CPUs, the IPC, and interaction of the core and how it works would be beneficial. Also define what Ghz is.


Simply put the mem controller on Athlon XP-M is on the northbridge, increasing the time to communicate with RAM and back to CPU. WHen you put the mem controller on the CPU you can directly communicate with RAM, decreasing lagtime immensely. There are heaps of detailed explanations over the net, but if you look at chipset diagrams(compare NF2 to NF3/NF4) you can easily see this.

[XyBeRz]

I've read about the 32bit vs 64bit CPUs and I understand it as the 64bit being better in at least two important ways, even when it has a similar clock speed.

1. 64 Bit CPU's are able to take up to 8GB of ram, hence being able to operate more programs at once without considerable loss of processing power
2. Taking in 64 bits of info as compared to 32 bit

But that doesn't necessarily mean that 64 bit would be double the speed of a 32 bit right?
Also I understand that you can't just compare clock speed between Intel and AMD, but also you need to factor in the IPC. Together those will give you the true measure of how fast the cpu is.
Is there a really good recommended website to read up more info on the differences? Like you said there are heaps, but not all have the same info. Also is there a site where it compares the same brand of CPU against it's own former CPUs? i.e. Athlons, Opteron, Barton, etc?

[FireDragon]

If you can find some old school OCZ pc3700EB get it i had that running at i think it was 268 DC that was on a DFI infinity...wouldnt do :banana::banana::banana::banana: on the NF7...even with the wire mod...not enough voltage i had that ram up around 3v and it loved it.

Dragon

[XyBeRz]

Man, I'm gonna have to get rid of my XP-M 2400+ as my current board, KX7-333R won't take the CPU. Didn't realize the 2400+ was a 333Mhz and my board only goes up to 266mhz. :(
Oh well, all is not lost. I just have to get a mobo for my new Mobile 64 2800+
Much faster anyway :D