Jinu117's cascade. [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

jinu117

04-01-2006, 10:27 PM

Been held up too long on parts and other things in hand to do but I am finally back on track... all brazed up and leak testing... (and this time waiting for few gases).

1st stage:
3/4+ hp condensing unit (has low pressure cut off... will see if it works as i hope it does..:P)
SLHX (shell tube thing...)
Danfoss TUAE TXV... i just don't like flare if I can get away with it. External pressure equalized.
Swep plate hx.

2nd stage:
1/2+ hp compressor
Condenser for my usual v2000 unit for desuperheater.
SLHX 3ft of 5/16 in 1/2
Captubing to Evap (chilly1 evap)
Yellow jacket 3/8 stainless steel flex line (flare end on each)
Highside cut off switch.

MISC:
Gauges for each stages (low and highside)

Electricals: (not in yet)
relay to cut off low side if high side isn't on.
wall switches for turning unit on and off.
2 fans for condenser and compressor cooling.

going to leak testing for extended period for since I won't get gas for another week or 2 weeks.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45438&stc=1&d=1143958549
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45439&stc=1&d=1143958549
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45440&stc=1&d=1143958549
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45441&stc=1&d=1143958549

Alex08

04-01-2006, 10:51 PM

how strange...today i was sitting here thinking when you were going to make a cascade then all of sudden i see this thread and i just say wow to myself. the condenser and fan look so fierce like its ready to take off. I'm glad to see their are wheels on that baby. can't wait to see it running.

the_new_guy

04-01-2006, 11:11 PM

hey what gases are u planning to run?

looking really good,

are u using an expansion tank?

GuGaCoSa

04-02-2006, 02:07 PM

One of the best cascades i ever saw,i would like to see a CPEV on second stage but ok hehe.
Ehy havent you wrapped more the captube around suction?
Man,do you have msn or icq or can i send you some pms?I would like to discuss some things with you.
regards
Dont you have any first stage gas to fill your first stage?
---EDIT---
Man,give more detailed pictures to us,im killing myself to see more of this beauty :D

eBoy0

04-02-2006, 02:16 PM

:woot: I was getting the feeling you gave up ;)
Amazing stuff!

Unseen

04-03-2006, 12:01 AM

Nice work.
give us some results from your plate hx :)

Stabbin

04-03-2006, 11:40 AM

Who is the manufacturer of, and what is the part or model number on the plate hx? I'd like to see if I could locate something like that in the USA. Thanks.:)

System is looking sweet, Junu117.:woot:

Weee

04-03-2006, 04:46 PM

Who is the manufacturer of, and what is the part or model number on the plate hx? I'd like to see if I could locate something like that in the USA. Thanks.:)

System is looking sweet, Junu117.:woot:

I'm guessing if he can find it in the USA, so can you! CA California not CA Canada on this guy.

Jin, Why didn't u link me to this thread sooner?! Looking SWEET. You should make the lucky recipient of this cascade bring some hardware over and I can come to watch the OC'ing party!

Hope the gas comes ASAP!

jinu117

04-03-2006, 06:53 PM

Gugacosa - yes I do have first stage gas in hand. I prefer leak testing for extended period of time for things that has this many brazing point done as well as few flares. 2nd stage had micro leak which I found to be suction line flaring... just tightened it and all is fine now. Been leak free till today... leak testing will just keep progressing on till I get 2nd stage gas.
eBoy0 - never :)
Unseen - I will definitely let you guys know :) From my chiller experience with plate HX, it is tons more efficient than tube in tube without causing much restriction or unnecessary amount of gas. Hopefully even 2nd stage will have pretty low static pressure. If not, I do have expensaion tank I made up which I didn't put in yet... :P
Stabbin - Most us shops will only carry Flatplate brand. Besides, retailer cost is bit prohibitive unless you go for big sized one. It is made in Sweden by company named SWEP. Brand name of brazed plate HX. This one is their standard model with 14 plates.
Weee - You know I've been busy and haven't been online for last few days really... :P Or else, I would have been idly chatting with you :) You see, making few single stages right now and I am in vacuuming part which kind of frees me up other than for cleaning up the aftermass... :P

Weee

04-03-2006, 07:47 PM

Building an awesmoe cascade beats idle chatter any day of the week!

Nordling

04-04-2006, 12:14 AM

jinu117 more photo plz!

runmc

04-04-2006, 02:34 AM

Very nice quality work jinu117. :D You have some masive size pipe on heat exchanger

boardy

04-04-2006, 02:37 AM

I'm liking it jinu :) All the cascades I see on here is giving me more and more inspiration for my own.

Keep it up matey :D

Boardy

jinu117

04-21-2006, 07:23 PM

Well, it has been leak testing for longest time I can remember... :P
I got the gases in but now I need fittings for my regulators that matches. So here is more delay. Since I am 100% sure it is leak free (lol), I tripled evac'd and charged first stage with R404a. Here is frosty pic :) 2nd stage will get tuned when the fittings shows up.
no insulation anywhere yet... I need to start insulating lines :P
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46199&stc=1&d=1145676041
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46200&stc=1&d=1145676041
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46201&stc=1&d=1145676041

BTW, what a loud ass bugger compressor... nothing like rotary but 3/4+ hp hermatic isn't as quiet as I wish... I ain't using it myself eventually anyway lol. (customer unit)

the_new_guy

04-21-2006, 09:36 PM

looking good

wat gas on second?r1150?r23?

afireinside

04-21-2006, 09:45 PM

Love the red cart, nice unit :woot:

Who's it for? Fragtek? Or is he getting his cascade elsewhere?

adamwinn

04-21-2006, 11:39 PM

One word: Clean!

That looks slick!

Sub zero

04-22-2006, 12:24 AM

Looking good nice to see the temps when its all insulated

Mr. Popo

04-22-2006, 08:23 AM

Too sexy :D

Fhqwhgads6680

04-22-2006, 09:15 AM

WOW jin, that unit looks awesome. It takes ALOT of time and skill to plan a build like that out that neatly, your pipework is amazingly clean and neat aswell, and it also looks like it's going to be a monster for performance! Great job man!!

Brandon J

jinu117

04-22-2006, 07:14 PM

2nd stage gas will be r508. I might play with ethylene quick while I am waiting for R508... still undecided if i am going to or not :P

kayl

04-23-2006, 05:41 AM

2nd stage gas will be r508. I might play with ethylene quick while I am waiting for R508... still undecided if i am going to or not :P

is that casue cant send flamible liquid ?
that hx is ready for second stage load for sure;)

Weee

05-02-2006, 09:16 AM

*bump* for updates! no pressure or anything, just curious!

jinu117

05-02-2006, 05:31 PM

Pressure it is :") Found out the compressor lacks relay... bleh.. need to grab one.

wdrzal

05-02-2006, 07:40 PM

You know by starting the first stage before the the second stage is complete you are filling the hx with water.

jinu117

05-02-2006, 08:10 PM

You know by starting the first stage before the the second stage is complete you are filling the hx with water.

not when it's filled up with nitrogen and already have been vaccumed :P
It has been sitting there leak testing for god knows how long.
Just missing relay for 2nd stage really :) Going to johnstone tomorrow to pick one up and wire it up. I could use the 1/2hp 3 in 1 to start but it is bit underpowered for compressor after all and don't want unpleasant things.

jinu117

05-11-2006, 09:13 AM

Well... got it vacuumed overnight and charged on 2nd stage. I don't like how first stage is behaving underload. In fact, it is SUCKING badly from what I can see under load.
I am surprised I got to this temp with 1st stage not even handling well. Going to have to try few things in 1st stage (thank god for txv with removable orifice and rotalock :P)
Just to get to belated -100c club :P

Jort

05-11-2006, 09:22 AM

hehe great job Jinu117

now load teh b**ch :D

jinu117

05-11-2006, 09:38 AM

Hehe I wish. But I gotta get 1st stage done correctly first. There is at least 10-15c sitting here I am not getting thanks to first stage not working the way it should be. And finish up the insulation of course... lol.

cold_ice

05-11-2006, 11:46 AM

What orifice you're using in your TXV? And you tried adjusting the superheat screw?

piotres

05-11-2006, 11:57 AM

Those R508 looks like a really good gas for 2-stagers :)

Congratulations with beating the -100*c barier :toast:

Peter

runmc

05-11-2006, 12:04 PM

Very nice jinu - now for some fun benches:woot:

Welcome to the -100C club:clap:

jinu117

05-11-2006, 12:40 PM

Hehe thanks RUNMC.
Benching will have to wait for my customer to show up once I do initial tuning with my load tester.
As for superheat screw... less you don't touch better it is. Orifice is mismatched clearly so I am doing pumping down (well done actually) and swapped orifice out. Vacuumming rest of channel before openeing up the valves and letting her run... :p
And it isn't R508 right now... I have some ethylene in there right now just to get to some intial tuning done and getting into -100c club really. It will be swapped to r508 afterwards :) when I am happy with first stage and swe what it can do with ethylene. Ethylene is cheaper after all and I never put reused gas in system - I don't vacuum over night to only to put even minscule of things back into system.
Eventually I will have to take this tanks to recycle center but I still have plenty of tank room... lol. (3 tanks of 30lbs... 1 for r404a, 1 for r402a, 1 for mix of junks really which I will have to pay off eventually).

jinu117

05-11-2006, 08:50 PM

Got the first stage working right... orifice was too big...
Considering how much i turned the knob... I could have used even smaller orifice... but oh well.
inlet -51c, outlet -48c, 2nd stage inlet... didn't look... i only have 2 uei dt200... lol. 2nd stage outlet -53c. This plate HX is very good as I expected from last few use.
2nd stage isn't as hot once I load tuned it. -85c 150w load, -83c 200w load.
Idle... -89c. Think cap tubing is too long and overcharged looking at the deltas. (150w here being x2 @ 1.75v dual priming from my experience, 200w... never saw cpu doing this before... lol)
Using 0.031 8ft 6 inches on this one. Think it is too long guys? (feels like it)

Alex08

05-11-2006, 08:58 PM

can't wait to drop by and see that baby in action.

ProphetX

05-11-2006, 09:02 PM

its about time you got into the -100c club. what took you so long.

Weee

05-11-2006, 09:15 PM

probably he wanted to do it safely and correctly and also only wants to sell non kaboom gas product

charlie

05-11-2006, 09:55 PM

sweet work :D

cold_ice

05-11-2006, 10:51 PM

Whats high and low side pressure in second stage? Seems that captube is too long, you should get about -100° or less idle and about -90° loaded.

Absolute_0

05-11-2006, 11:12 PM

Hey Jin,

Congrats on -100c club man
I knew you could do it :D

jinu117

05-11-2006, 11:41 PM

Whats high and low side pressure in second stage? Seems that captube is too long, you should get about -100° or less idle and about -90° loaded.
yeah i think it is too long myself too. 10/200 running. Way too overcharged from what I can see.
Time to cut cap tubing tomorrow and continue on...

cold_ice

05-12-2006, 12:40 AM

Pressures seem fine to me.

kayl

05-12-2006, 05:30 AM

eBoy0

05-12-2006, 07:23 AM

Nice job buddy!

jinu117

05-13-2006, 12:26 AM

Well bit of update is in order.
Reduced cap tubing down to 7ft 6inches this time based on my experience with cap tubing and load characteristics and also unseen's recommendation since this will most likely be R508 cascade in the end.
Major improvement in many ways.
#1. Idle temp is now at -107c :)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47091&stc=1&d=1147504977

#2. Load 150w @ -95c, Load 200w @ -93c. Also discharge while fully loaded is only around 170-180 psi which makes me feel better about safety. When idling, very low discharge hehe...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47095&stc=1&d=1147504977

gut feeling tells me i can reduce another 5-6 inches for even better temp but I am going to hold on till my experimental unit as this is for my customer :)
Going to wait to hear from him if he wants ethylene or r508 on his unit based on result. ;)
The compressor was oversized from start in case if he wants 3 stages in future and looking at the left over capacity of playing with, it sure would work just fine on 3 stages :)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47092&stc=1&d=1147504977
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47094&stc=1&d=1147504977

Overinsulation on suction and HX... other than that... I really need to wrap up insulations on slhxs, txv, etc to get better temp... wonder how much are still hiden in temp wise for insulation.

Oh TXV used is danfoss TUAE for r404a/r507. Orifice #2. (this is smaller size than what most of you guys are used to...)

Absolute_0

05-13-2006, 12:28 AM

Jin, that's a monster you got going there!

hatemi

05-13-2006, 12:31 AM

This proves the solid first stage is a key to good evap temps:) What temp you got at the HX out while it was loaded? I'm guessing it was in way bellow -40c ;)

jinu117

05-13-2006, 12:37 AM

Thanks guys for cheering me :) I feel darned happy when you guys give me such a nice comment when just about all cascade pro here can do this :)

This proves the solid first stage is a key to good evap temps:) What temp you got at the HX out while it was loaded? I'm guessing it was in way bellow -40c ;)

I noticed that when I was fine tuning today :)
HX out while 200w load was... gasp... -45c... I could have used R402a, etc for first stage but stuck to 404a since I figured it would be more than sufficient and I don't use r404a as often and have almost full tank (well... was almost full tank lol)
Probably could have netted few more degree by going r402a but I am running dangerously low on what I have until new tank gets in atm... :P
So many little things that could add up...
Hatemi, in your opinion... with 0.031... what would be right cap tubing for ethylene using... 3/4 hp compressor (:P)? I get the feeling about 7ft will be more optimal but don't really want to risk what I got... (I really don't like lengthening cap tubing)

In the end, considering this is my first cascade... I feel pretty happy :P

hatemi

05-13-2006, 12:54 AM

In I have used 150cm and bit over 2m captubes and the loaded temps were very close to eachother even tough the second stages compressors were different sizes(12cc vs 18cc) The one with 18cc and longer captube did have about 5c better noload temp, but when loaded with 180w they were pretty close (within 2c or so) to eachother.

the_new_guy

05-13-2006, 02:07 AM

amazing work there jinu,

wdrzal

05-13-2006, 07:41 AM

Great work Jinu !!!:clap: :clap: :clap:

you will do much better after you finish the insulation. Great pics also:toast:

jinu117

05-17-2006, 01:02 AM

:cool: So tempted to cut the cap tube a little but I must resist not touching something that isn't broken. :D
I retuned 1st stage as static pressure was not to my liking. Now, I get few c better 1st stage temp under idle while keeping about same (well tad lower) load temp on 1st stage.
-110c unloaded finally... (about 20c ambient temperature... gotta love so cal)
-97ish 150w load temp :P
Obviously, bit smaller cap will make it even better for load temp... but I... must... resist.
Put the lid on it for bench surfaces basically, put pressure cut off switch on highside of 2nd stage, going to make electrical connection box on side tomorrow and mount it on so everything is just done by switches... (might put controller my customer found on e-bay if it seems suitable).
Getting nearing completion :) And to top it off, he will be here by friday with his testing stuff and we can freeze the darn thing off and see how it handles with cpu... (granted cpu comes alive)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47248&stc=1&d=1147856489
first stage hx in, 2nd stage hx out (power to the plate hx!!!)
Evap.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47249&stc=1&d=1147856489
Like the top? :P Harborfreight has them on sale again :)