6 dual radiators test

[Cooper]

Review (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftechnic3d.de&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

Used components:
CPU - Intel P4 3,2@3,84 cooled by Aquacomputer Cuplex pro (http://www.sharkacorp.com/images/aquacomputer/cuplex-pro/cpx-pro-logo-lg.gif)
Mobo - Asus P4p800-e Deluxe cooled by Aquacomputer Twinplex (http://www.sharkacorp.com/images/aquacomputer/twinplex/twinplex-nb1-lg.gif)
GPU - 6800GT 455/1160 cooled by Heatkiller Gpu x (http://www.watercool.de/cms/shop_pics/10104.jpg)
Pump - 12V Eheim HPPC(132.1GPH / 6.7ft) (http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/detail_secondary_hires/ex-pmp-09_3.jpg)
Fans - REVOLTEC Dark Blue 120x120mm - 49,21cfm

IMO very small restrictions in loop.

12V on fans:

http://www.technic3d.de/reviews/kuehler/radis/1.PNG

5V on fans:

http://www.technic3d.de/reviews/kuehler/radis/2.PNG

[creidiki]

No surprises here. Cooltek/MCR outperforms BIP, and im sure would be outperformed by PA.

[giorgioprimo]

No surprises here. Cooltek/MCR outperforms BIP, and im sure would be outperformed by PA.


What's PA??

[Cooper]

Of course those products aren`t new. But I thought it would help to make a decision if wc setup ain`t very restrictive. Don`t know - maybe with storm (or similar) and better GPU block and with hotter components results would be different. It`d be cool if experts would comment upon this. Thank you. :)

[Cooper]

What's PA??

Thermochill PA series (single, dual, triple rads) made for low noise cooling :) (just read the sticky ;))

[creidiki]

What's PA??
Thermochill PA-series radiators. Best performing low-restriction rads around.

Yes, good test cooper. Like I said, no surprises so far as MCR and BIP go. Interesting to find out how close the Innos are to BIPs, and how far away NeXXXos rads are.

Also good to have some data on the difference between the BIP and MCR as far as temps go (less than a degree with your loop).

[Marci]

Only one problem...

he ambient temperature amounted to during the entire test between 22,1° - 22,8°.

Source: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftechnic3d.de&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

Now look at the results differences... 12v... discounting the Nexxos rads and the AC Evo (and BIXII at load), all others are within 0.7 degrees of each other, and thus within the margin of error due to change in ambient temps... nothing conclusive can be drawn from the results that fall within 0.7 degs of each other in any test until ambient is controlled.

Fortunately the results are in line with everyone elses however, so ring true... MCR / CooltekExtream beats all tested - common knowledge these days... but worth bearing in mind for future testing.

[creidiki]

Well, most of us cant afford an enviro chamber marci ;p

[Cooper]

SO I guess CooltekExtream is bang-for-buck here - it`s very cheap in EU. Just might get one for my long upcoming loop :D

[Marci]

Well, most of us cant afford an enviro chamber marci
Me neither, but when the results are within the margin of error of ambient... it kinda negates the validity of the results - has to be pointed out... unless ambient at the time of testing for each individual rad is quoted...

Tis all good tho - look at 5v results and there are only 2 or so that fall within 0.7 - so those results are still useful to an extent...

[skaktuss]

could someone please tell, why those results are various, if radiators look so similar? is there realy such a technical difference? for example bix is just like alphacool nexxxos xtreme II and bip is similar to pro II (all the time i thought they are the same, only nexos are made by chinese). i would realy like to see some cross-section pictures!

[Nazu]

could someone please tell, why those results are various, if radiators look so similar? is there realy such a technical difference? for example bix is just like alphacool nexxxos xtreme II and bip is similar to pro II (all the time i thought they are the same, only nexos are made by chinese). i would realy like to see some cross-section pictures!
I would also like to know how can there be so much difference between BIP2 and NexXxos Pro 2. I'm planning to get a NexXxos Pro 3 rad but if there's so much difference with BIP2 and Pro 2 the BIP3 would surely be better based on that test. Is that test even realistic :stick:

[creidiki]

Theres no doubt looking at the 5v test that the bip is better... but why not go full-out and get the triple cooltek? (or stop being a cheapskate and get a pa? :P)

[Mr. Tinker]

could someone please tell, why those results are various, if radiators look so similar? is there realy such a technical difference? for example bix is just like alphacool nexxxos xtreme II and bip is similar to pro II (all the time i thought they are the same, only nexos are made by chinese). i would realy like to see some cross-section pictures!
Answer: Variables. Radiator thickness, fins density, materials used, number of tubes, tank volume, barb size...

[Cooper]

PA is very expensive rad. Plus shipping and other stuff. I better get myself Vapo :p:

[Nazu]

Theres no doubt looking at the 5v test that the bip is better... but why not go full-out and get the triple cooltek? (or stop being a cheapskate and get a pa? :P)
Haven't seen triple cooltek anywhere and maybe I will get a PA.120.3 cos it's cheaper than BIP3 in extreme prometeia where I'm going to buy my new watercooling setup.

[creidiki]

I love phil's place, esp for the AQX gear, but PAs are cheaper @ O-CuK, or direct from thermochill. Theyre all in the UK....

[skaktuss]

Answer: Variables. Radiator thickness, fins density, materials used, number of tubes, tank volume, barb size...
bix, alphacool nexxxos extreme and even xspc apear to be absolutely identical! the question could be only about material! perhaps bix/p is made of better hallmark copper than nexxxos :)

[MaxxxRacer]

Marci, I can do u one better... Ambient taken every second for 20 minutes of testing... 2000 data points to average out... so even if your ambient walks around a bit, as long as it isnt enough to change the way the deltas are, then the data is pretty useful... the joys of data logging ;)

One thing that no one has cared to mention that during this test, the system was most likely in the sub 1gpm range considering the number of components in the loop and the relatively weak pump. the low flowrate gave more of an advantage to the single row, and condensor style rads. Just wanted to point that out.

[MaxxxRacer]

one last thing.. what fans were u using? I didnt see that in the review?

[afireinside]

I'd assume low CFM possibly 25mm thick ones... With real fans wouldn't the BIX2 do quite a bit better than the BIP2? Plus their pump is very weak and they use those tiny like 1/4" tubes...

[Cooper]

Fans used were REVOLTEC Dark Blue 120x120mm - 49,21cfm

[CrimeDog]

The difference temperature (delta T) between air and water temperature is determined by means of a Aquaero.
assuming his temp sensors are accurate (or at least scale correctly) the ambient temp shouldn't matter :)

[CthulpiSS]

Hi guys,
as someone new to xtremesystems forums (I just registered) but not that new to watercooling subject,
I just _have_ to ask (repeating the question mentioned ealier) :
how is it possible that BIP II
(http://www.hwlabs.com/products/blackicepro2.htm, 4583 BTU per hour)
beats BIE II
(http://www.hwlabs.com/products/blackicextreme2.htm, 6270 BTU per hour)

Please excuse me, but it looks like some denial of phisics laws -
BIE II have larger surface, and smaller resctictions than BIP II....

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

seems pretty useless to me, only :banana::banana::banana::banana: fans were tested. so it seems pretty obvious the low restriction rads will win, now throw some medium to high speed fans on there, or put fans on both side in a push/pull. and then see who will win.

the big guys most likely, as there would be the static pressure needed to handle the higher FPI.

[Etacovda]

Hi guys,
as someone new to xtremesystems forums (I just registered) but not that new to watercooling subject,
I just _have_ to ask (repeating the question mentioned ealier) :
how is it possible that BIP II
(http://www.hwlabs.com/products/blackicepro2.htm, 4583 BTU per hour)
beats BIE II
(http://www.hwlabs.com/products/blackicextreme2.htm, 6270 BTU per hour)

Please excuse me, but it looks like some denial of phisics laws -
BIE II have larger surface, and smaller resctictions than BIP II....

no denial of physical laws, you're just missing a few

The BIX is thicker with the same (or more) fins per inch, so theres more restriction to airflow. The BIX series is designed around higher cfm, higher pressure fans (ie over 80cfm), so its natural that the BIX will perform less because of the airflow.

[MaxxxRacer]

seems pretty useless to me, only :banana::banana::banana::banana: fans were tested. so it seems pretty obvious the low restriction rads will win, now throw some medium to high speed fans on there, or put fans on both side in a push/pull. and then see who will win.

the big guys most likely, as there would be the static pressure needed to handle the higher FPI.


but you forget one huge factor.. no one wants to listen to the fans that will make the bix win. maybe you do but you are grosely in the minority.

[Monge]

REVOLTEC Dark Blue 120x120mm - 49,21cfm in any case doesn't push much air even at 12v. Crappy fan in that respect. A Yate Loon at 7v will beat that Revoltec at 12v.

From Cooltek Xtreame productinfo:
"The channels parallel held provide for an extremely small flow resistance."
hmm...

Cheers Monge

[eXa]

Haven't seen triple cooltek anywhere and maybe I will get a PA.120.3 cos it's cheaper than BIP3 in extreme prometeia where I'm going to buy my new watercooling setup.

we have tripple cooltek here in norway!
http://www.microplex.no/product.aspx?pid=CTRAD3x120&mcat=14s265

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

but you forget one huge factor.. no one wants to listen to the fans that will make the bix win. maybe you do but you are grosely in the minority.


yeah, im all about bang for buck, and trying to get every bit of perfomance out, even with loud fans. but i still dont find them that bad anyways, lol.:p:

[JoeBar]

but you forget one huge factor.. no one wants to listen to the fans that will make the bix win. maybe you do but you are grosely in the minority.
What do u think of bix with 4 low cfm/noise fans (like the revoltecs used) in a push pull config, wouldn't be better that a bip?
I believe that they will be at least quieter than 2 high cfm fans on a bix. But what about performance?

[MaxxxRacer]

4 yates on a BIX or 2 yates on a BIP2.. no idea which would perform better. a wild guess upon my part... they would perform about equal.

[JoeBar]

4 yates on a BIX or 2 yates on a BIP2.. no idea which would perform better. a wild guess upon my part... they would perform about equal.
Thanks for the info m8! :)
So i guess that a bix (or similar) radiator is justified only with high cfm/pressure/noise fans.

[MaxxxRacer]

Joe, pretty much...

[Primoz78]

I`ve got my new Cooltek extreme dual rad to replace the Nexxxos extrene 2. With same system and same fans setup I now have about 2-3°C lower temps on the CPU...so it was worth to replace :D ...Now I`m waiting for the Laing D5 from the UK...

Regards,
Primoz

[Monge]

I`ve got my new Cooltek extreme dual rad to replace the Nexxxos extrene 2. With same system and same fans setup I now have about 2-3°C lower temps on the CPU...so it was worth to replace :D ...Now I`m waiting for the Laing D5 from the UK...

Regards,
Primoz
Congrats :)
Which fans do you use?

[Bladesinger7x]

I`ve got my new Cooltek extreme dual rad to replace the Nexxxos extrene 2. With same system and same fans setup I now have about 2-3°C lower temps on the CPU...so it was worth to replace :D ...Now I`m waiting for the Laing D5 from the UK...

Regards,
Primoz

:slapass: :slapass: :slapass:

[Cooper]

^^^
Now that`s pretty offensive offtopic :stick:

[Bladesinger7x]

^^^
Now that`s pretty offensive offtopic :stick:

He he, no offense was meant:D

Primoz will know why the :slapass: ....because I thought that I will know this stuff before you guys.....but obviously
not:rolleyes:

[Bladesinger7x]

Uppps, double post ...sorry

[Primoz78]

Congrats :)
Which fans do you use?


For now 2x Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F (63CFM@26dB@12V) on pull @7V...just for testing the difference between the cooltek and the Nexxxos...but I have to more of this Schyte to put them on push ;) ...but I will wait for the D5 to put them on.

Bladesinger7x :banana: :banana: :banana: :slapass: :nono:

U know what I mean :D

Regards,
Primoz

[Nazu]

Little OT, but anyway I changet my fans so that they are blowing air to my rad (BIP2+2x Akasa 120mm 1400rpm) and now my cpu temps are lot higher and the air coming from the rad is VERY hot when I run superpi. So what's the problem?

Did this cos everybody says here that blowing is better for rads like BIP, but I got better temps when the fans were pulling air from the rad. The good from this is that now my videocard is a lot cooler and the hd's also.

[MaxxxRacer]

the reason your temps are worse now is that the radiator is pulling in air from the case which is warmer. before u had the radiator pulling in air from outside.

if your OC isnt any different i would keep it this way as your case probably wasnt getting proper ventilation before, and now it is.

[Nazu]

Couldn't keep the oc that I had before cos the cpu temps were hitting almost 60 degrees celsius :D

[Monge]

For now 2x Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F (63CFM@26dB@12V) on pull @7V...just for testing the difference between the cooltek and the Nexxxos...but I have to more of this Schyte to put them on push ;) ...but I will wait for the D5 to put them on.

Regards,
Primoz

And did you test the temp difference between the two radi at 12v/63CFM too?

Cheers Monge

[eXa]

can anyone confirm if this is the cooltek extreme or not?
http://www.microplex.no/product.aspx?pid=CTRAD2x120&mcat=14s265

[Nazu]

can anyone confirm if this is the cooltek extreme or not?
http://www.microplex.no/product.aspx?pid=CTRAD2x120&mcat=14s265
If the name says Cooltek, I think it's quite obvious that it's the Cooltek Extreme :stick: They don't have other rad's than the extreme series.

[eXa]

are you shure? found this after i asked. on the right is says mainstream and extreme...
http://www.cooltek.de/300100451.html

[Nazu]

are you shure? found this after i asked. on the right is says mainstream and extreme...
http://www.cooltek.de/300100451.html
The 1x120mm is Mainstream and dual and triple are Maxistream. They are the same as in the shop in your link.

[eXa]

ah brilliant. theyre cheap compared to hwlabs and other!

[Primoz78]

And did you test the temp difference between the two radi at 12v/63CFM too?

Cheers Monge


Sorry I don`t cause I always run the fans @7V...I will try to test them when I get the D5...I will dismount the WC than ;)

Regards,
Primoz

[Monge]

Sorry I don`t cause I always run the fans @7V...I will try to test them when I get the D5...I will dismount the WC than ;)

Regards,
Primoz
Thanks :)
I think the Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F@7v perform more or less like a Yate Loon D12SL-12 @1000 RPM approx. 37-40CFM
Just to give an idea.

Cheers Monge

[Primoz78]

Thanks :)
I think the Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F@7v perform more or less like a Yate Loon D12SL-12 @1000 RPM approx. 37-40CFM
Just to give an idea.

Cheers Monge

The Yate loons are not availabe in my country :( ...so the Schyte was the best I can found here...thinking of the power/silent ratio...

...I`m just thinking about...if it will be worth to put this 2 more fans on push...:cool:

Regards,
Primoz

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Woulda been nice to throw the Bonneville heatercore in there just to see how it stacked up.

[Monge]

The Yate loons are not availabe in my country :( ...so the Schyte was the best I can found here...thinking of the power/silent ratio...

...I`m just thinking about...if it will be worth to put this 2 more fans on push...:cool:

Regards,
Primoz
The Schyte 's are very nice fans regarding performce/noise, indeed :)
I was just trying to figure out how many CFM's you throwed at the Cooltek.
If it's worth to put 2 more fans in push/pull are difficult to say. You'll have more noise for sure. But why don't you try.

Cheers Monge

[Primoz78]

The Schyte 's are very nice fans regarding performce/noise, indeed :)
I was just trying to figure out how many CFM's you throwed at the Cooltek.
If it's worth to put 2 more fans in push/pull are difficult to say. You'll have more noise for sure. But why don't you try.

Cheers Monge


Not so big difference in noise I think...cause the dba is not counting like 10+10=20dba...as I know...will see...or better will hear :)

Regards,
Primoz

[Monge]

For every 3 DB increase = double the noise.
You might go to http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/fanspecs/fanspecs.pdf and check.
But who cares. Test yourself :D

Cheers Monge :toast:

[Primoz78]

For every 3 DB increase = double the noise.
You might go to http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/fanspecs/fanspecs.pdf and check.
But who cares. Test yourself :D

Cheers Monge :toast:


Thanks for this ;) ...I will have the fans on 7V so the noise should not be the problem...I hope :cool:

Regards,
Primoz

[Primoz78]

Another question...this time about tubing. I have now 12mm (inside) tubing on my WC setup...I have found some 13mm (also inside) and I want to put them on my WC...the pump is D5 and Cooltek extreem dual rad...is 13mm tubing too much for this?

Regards,
Primoz

[Monge]

Another question...this time about tubing. I have now 12mm (inside) tubing on my WC setup...I have found some 13mm (also inside) and I want to put them on my WC...the pump is D5 and Cooltek extreem dual rad...is 13mm tubing too much for this?

Regards,
Primoz

You be fine with 12mm (inside) tubing or Masterkleer 7/16"

Look here:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1365799&postcount=2
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94898

Cheers Monge