my new unit (-71C idle, sc21cl, slhx, cpev etc,) lots of pic

[RaVeN155]

This unit is prepared to work with big loads.

Evap is the same i always use, chilly1 design but a little bit modified. (I've bought a few about year ago). Suction hose is about 1,2m long.

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbvap.jpg

You can see polish coin on the polished base here *)

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbvap2.jpg

now some pics of parts used in system (sc21cl compressor, slhx and 1,9kW condenser)

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbxparts.jpg
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbxparts2.jpg
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbxparts3.jpg

i've put switch and fan regulator to the starting device

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20002.jpg
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20006.jpg

here is pic of slhx with cpev and suction side accumulator

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20010.jpg

and first run temp, ive used r507 and 1150 mix so temps were quite nice, about -65 to -70C at +0,4 - +0,5bar on low side so there was high refrigerant flow. But i wont use this mix (too high pressures on the high side - 25bar/350psi), maybe i'll get r23, it would be better i think.

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20015.jpg
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20018.jpg

i dunno much about load temps, i should test it this week

overall look? well you should like it, maybe besides insulation but it is 19mm thick on suction hose and even more on slhx. We dont want to loose any performance do we? :lol:

now some pics, i hope you like it ^)

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20022.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20024.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20025.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20026.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20028.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20033.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20035.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20037.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20039.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dbx%20044.jpg

so what is your opinion :>?

[404Power]

Holy ****! :slobber:
This is one of the best SS's I've ever seen! :banana: :toast:
So ... WOW .... just awesome! :)
I'm building a similar unit atm! ;)
It's based on one of your NL11F units which I bought from another polish guy about 3 months ago! ;) :)

[koensa]

woah very nice

is that compressor beter then nl11F?
greetz

[the_new_guy]

hey dude, gr8 temps!

[RaVeN155]

sc21cl is about twice better than nl11f but with load, there is no big difference in vaccum i think

i'm glad that you like it :)

[Waus-mod]

Wasnt this also the same plan of HL4E ? GREAT work man!

[Athens[2004]]

Nice , wait to see some load's with this single beastie .

[RaVeN155]

i must buy some resistors for dummy load, 180W should be good or you want to see something more crazy? :P

[Waus-mod]

Well 200 would be nice :P

[esdee]

very nice unit RaVeN155. awsome temps!
but i have one question! how do you seperate the two phases?

[Tyrou]

:woot:

that's one of the finest single stages I've ever seen !

[RaVeN155]

Its normal single stage, there is no phase separation, if there was temps would be much better but it would be called autocascade than ;)

I'm waiting for some r23 to test, r1150 isnt good addition, way to high pressures :)

[mesyn191]

Best single stage temps ever unloaded, in a nice and tidy package too! Any idea yet what it will do under load? How is the noise?

[esdee]

Its normal single stage, there is no phase separation, if there was temps would be much better but it would be called autocascade than ;)

I'm waiting for some r23 to test, r1150 isnt good addition, way to high pressures :)

hmm im a bit confused. i see an HX (is it a Suction line one?). and a high pressure gas like r1150. how is the r1150 supposed to get condensed?in the evaporator?

[Shinuza]

:woot:

that's one of the finest single stages I've ever seen !

Agreed :slobber:

[d@rkn1ko]

you can test under load? :)

[Jack]

The unit looks really big and overkill...

i like it :D

[RaVeN155]

esdee it goes like this

comp->condenser->filter->slhx->cpev->evap->slhx->sl accumulator->comp

so 507 is condensing in condenser and 1150 is condensing somewhere in slhx i think. Well i hope it work like this :P

but like i said, must get some r23 ;) if it wont work good i will do some tests with pure 507


btw ->mesyn191 it sounds powerfull, quite noisy than but not as much as rotaries

i will test it on my crappy cel D today but on pure 507 (waiting for resistors to do dummy load)

[ent]

Raven, it's a masterpiece :D Great SS, waiting for some loaded temps :toast:

[RaVeN155]

i've ordered a 3 resistors - 82ohm each so they should give me about 250W heatload (if my system wont hold it , i will kill it :P)

I'm checking results at 4,2ghz 1,6v cel D and on pure r507 idle temp is -47,7C and loaded (32mb pi) -46,2C. Cant wait to se some results with r23 because this system isn't designed to run in big vaccum (compressor is gas cooled so it need some refrigerant flow and slhx needs it too to work properly and condense high pressure gas)

[DEVIL K-ce]

Good work my friend :toast:

RaVen maybe test on P4 630 or 631 soon :p:

[kiwi]

wow, very neat and clean job :toast:

[luf1c3r]

A very pleasant work RaVeN155, congratulation ;)

greetings

[FragTek]

Wow that's one of the cleanest setups I've seen, gratz on that man!

Not to mention those temps are insanely low, good job!

[Marvin]

very nice unit.
How much the CPEV and the SNHX would improve your system ?

[afireinside]

Holy crap! Raven does it again with another killer cpev based SS... Why do you use a cpev anyway? I haven't seen anyone other than and and berkut do it on a single stage. What kind of difference is there between a cpev setup and a cap tube setup other than being able to vary your load?

[RaVeN155]

Hi afireinside :)

In this system cpev is very usefull. Its all about evap, it will work fine with small loads but when you're going to bench p4 you can see that not all amount of refrigerant stays in evap. It work like that because in high loads refrigerant evaporate a lot faster. Gas bubbles crowd out most of liqiud refrigerant (dont now if its correctly written but its hard to explain it in english :P ). That liquid refrigerant cools cap tube and goes to compressor or stays in accumulator.

But if you do quite big slhx all liquid refrigerant will be used for subcooling and when you're using cpev you can adjust that evap overflooding to do some nice temps for u. With powerfull compresor you can condense high pressure gas this way, just give some liquid refrigerant to slhx.

It works almost like a watercooler because only small part of refrigerant evaporate in evap. Subcooling is so high that there is only few degrees difference between liquid going to cpev and going from it.

Sorry its really hard to explain it, maybe i'll paint it later :)

[crotale]

That condensor and compressor is seriously oversized for a SS. Some cascades don't even have that hardware. :D

Very nice job! I would love to see that loaded with 200W.

[labrat23]

I would have to say that this design makes an autocascade even more pointless than it already is. It does everything an autocascade does, but much simpler and probably much more efficiently.

I don't see an oil separator. Is it just not a problem at -70C?

[giorgioprimo]

incredible SS.... :clap:

[FragTek]

I would have to say that this design makes an autocascade even more pointless than it already is. It does everything an autocascade does, but much simpler and probably much more efficiently.

I don't see an oil separator. Is it just not a problem at -70C?
Except for the fact that auto's do -100C and less... :rolleyes:

[labrat23]

I know cascades do -100C or less, but I thought the best autocascade did about -90C unloaded. Now I havent been following the forums too closely, so if someone did better, I might have missed it. Could you point me to the auto that did -100C?


Raven, what model cpev is that? I think I am going to go with a cpev on my next system and really don't know which one to get.

[RaVeN155]

i didnt have any problems with oil so far but i will see after some more time, maybe oil sep will be needed.

I'm using FACH cpevs 1 or 1,2mm. Made by polish company, it costs about 18 euros :)

[C-BuZz]

congrats on a very impressive tidy unit :toast: looking forward to some load testing.

C-BuZz

[Bergo]

IIRC that polycold autocascade really kicked some arse. Other than that I haven't seem alot of autocascades that have been terribly successful in entering the -100 club. I'd assume the load handleing of a massive single stage like this might be a little bit better. (although I've never tried building an autocascade myself, so I'm not really in a position to give a well informed opinion)

[Waus-mod]

When are you gonna heatload it?

[RaVeN155]

I think my dummy load will be ready tomorrow. I'll test it on pure r507 for now but berkut will give me some r23 next week :).

I would test it faster but i'm doing other ss atm so i dont have much time, sorry.

[Shyfty]

I would love a little more info on the: slhx...heat ex of some sort, but how does it work? cpev... expansion valve obviously, but how is it different from a tev (are they the same)? How are you constructing you heat load?

I am a bit of a novice who is trying to get info on how to build better phase change systems and this one really interests me as it is a bit more involved.

Nice work!! :)

[CrashOv3r1De]

Awesome single stage lets see some results

[kayl]

thats a nice slHX.
cant wait to see some r23 in there or 1150.
Hope ya have better luck than i did at load.
you will be albe to condenser 1150 in the SLhx and get some nice noload temps forshore. Will be interesting though what happens when loaded.
I found at load low side pressure will inscreas and temps go crap (well with 1150 anyway) r23 would be a better gas htough, not so high pressure.

what low side pressure did you run to get those temps noload??

[Carlz0r]

I would love a little more info on the: slhx...heat ex of some sort, but how does it work? cpev... expansion valve obviously, but how is it different from a tev (are they the same)? How are you constructing you heat load?

I am a bit of a novice who is trying to get info on how to build better phase change systems and this one really interests me as it is a bit more involved.

Nice work!! :)
If I remember correctly, CPEVs are very similar to TEVs but you manually change it instead of having the suction line temperature change it. The SLHX uses the suction line to further cool the discharge line. It also helps boil off any liquid that may be left in the suction line.

[RaVeN155]

Carlz0r - yes thats true, thx ;)

kayl - i've tried with 1150 and temp + refrigerant flow was more than fine but that pressures.... I'm waiting for r23 from berkut but he have some exams so i guess it wont come fast. btw -71C was on 1150 + r507 and about +0,4-0,5bar on suction side.

If you dont know what/where/how sth works just look at my scheme. numbers should be useful when you'll ask about sth.

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/schemacik.png

and about dummy load, i've used three 82ohm 50W resistors connected in series but its a huge overkill (250W) for normal ss so i reccomend to use 100ohm (it will give about 180W)

How to mount it? its rly easy, just look at pics below

resistors
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dummy1.jpg

and resistors with cutted out mounting *things*
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dummy2.jpg

and finally done dummy load
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dummyload2.jpg

simple, isn't it? :) i will put some insulation there of course ;)
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dummyload22.jpg

i havent tested system yet because i'm out of space, time etc

and sorry for all mistakes but i'm so tired that i cant think in english

[RaVeN155]

load test on pure 507 done.

i havent counted resistors good, its not a 250W dummyload but 225..
225W/235v=0,957
235v/0,957=245,5ohm /3 = ~82ohm

evap was -37 - -39C loaded. it's not a good result i think but it was only pure 507. i also think that this evap isn't designed for that big loads but dont worry, i dont belive that any processor will push that much heat ;)

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dummytest.jpg

and this how resistors looks after 3 hours of testing
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/dummytest2.jpg

what now? i can only wait till r23 arrive. i wont sell this system before r23 tests but if it will work fine i will post it in right forum section (if mods will tell me that i can do it of course :) ).

btw i remember that berkut did -22C on modded prommy with similar load :)

[Skinny13]

in case u used TXV where do u put the bulb?

[RaVeN155]

i've used cpev, manual pressure regulation

[Skinny13]

I know...I saw it

I asked...in case u used TXV....

[RaVeN155]

sorry, i've missed it ;)

i think before slhx (after flexible stainless hose)

[DEVIL K-ce]

Raven where is end of job in Your ss ? The 631 ordered already and we wait 1-2 ~week's. P5WD2 will be moded and ...

[RaVeN155]

and u need some sub-zero temps? :P dunno exactly about r23 yet but if it wont arrive we can bench on pure 507 always ;)

[DEVIL K-ce]

and u need some sub-zero temps? :P dunno exactly about r23 yet but if it wont arrive we can bench on pure 507 always ;)

Sub-zero temp and no other :toast:
100% o/c Cedar Mill - 631 maybe possible
:cool:

[Absolute_0]

MONSTROUS single stage, very nice

[RaVeN155]

btw what lenght of cap tube i should use for gpu? i want to do sli cooler on the same parts but i must find a few information. How much space is between both cards ?

[RaVeN155]

I dont think that berkut will send r23 fast and unit is ready to use so i'll post it in for sale section.

But there is one news, new backplate for amd :)

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/bps.jpg

[Jack]

The mounting kit looks really nice!
So does the evap temp :D

[Ssilencer]

Really nice Raven, the single and mounts.

[LIONS*LEADER]

Hi afireinside :)

In this system cpev is very usefull. Its all about evap, it will work fine with small loads but when you're going to bench p4 you can see that not all amount of refrigerant stays in evap. It work like that because in high loads refrigerant evaporate a lot faster.

Gas bubbles crowd out most of liqiud refrigerant
(dont now if its correctly written but its hard to explain it in english :P ).

i belive what you are talking about is the leidenfrost effect
http://www.wiley.com/legacy/college/phy/halliday320005/pdf/leidenfrost_essay.pdf

its a very interesting effect that lets you put your bare hand into a pot of molten lead as explained and tried in the link above among other interesting aspects of this effect.


That liquid refrigerant cools cap tube and goes to compressor or stays in accumulator.

But if you do quite big slhx all liquid refrigerant will be used for subcooling and when you're using cpev you can adjust that evap overflooding to do some nice temps for u. With powerfull compresor you can condense high pressure gas this way, just give some liquid refrigerant to slhx.

It works almost like a watercooler because only small part of refrigerant evaporate in evap. Subcooling is so high that there is only few degrees difference between liquid going to cpev and going from it.

Sorry its really hard to explain it, maybe i'll paint it later :)

hope that clears things up. that teacher is one brave guy

[n00b 0f l337]

What material are those backplates?

[GoriLLakoS]

Industrial plastic...I think...:D

[Ssilencer]

hope that clears things up. that teacher is one brave guy

What the leidenfrost effect has to do here???? :confused:

He is just saying that almost always some amount of gas will leave the evap without boiling (overflood)

[wdrzal]

The leidenfrost effect has nothing to do with gas bubbles crowding out liquid refrigerant.

the leidenfrost effect concerns the evaporation rate of a liquid above its boiling point. It demostrates the the HOTTER the surface the SLOWER the evaperation rate. This is oppisite to what is normally thought.

Example: A drop of water takes 2 seconds to evaporate when dropped on a 250f degree frying pan, the same size drop take 4 seconds to evaporate when dropped on a 450f dergee pan.

Reason: the hotter surface forms a vapor layer between the pan and the drop,thus insulating the water drop. Vapor conducts heat slower than if the water was directly contacting the pan. The hotter the the surface the thicker the insulating vapor barrier.

This is why fire walkers can preform their "Majic" the moisture on the skin turns to vapor temporatly insulating the skin until the all the water is vaporized.

[RaVeN155]

I dont know english name of this material (in polish its winidur). But its kind of industrial plastic as GorriLLakoS said ;) .

Btw its not a leidenfrost effect, i've only said that evaporation is faster with that huge load, too fast fot that kind of evap. You can do a simple research, heat up water first in 200mll metal cup and than in 8mm copper pipe. water in copper pipe will boil over. The same thing is happen in evap when load is too high.

There are 3 ways to fight with this. First way is to change evap to bigger one. Its not practical because its easier to insulate and use smaller evap. Second way is to undercharge the unit, overflooding wont be possible than such as good temps unfortunately. Third way is to protect compressor from overflooding doing a big slhx (+ accumulator optionally). But to keep the evap temp at good level you must rise refrigerant flow. Higher flow means lower evaporation temps but lower difference between load and idle evap temp as well.

I'm glad you like it guys :) and i wish that future owner will have at least strong x2 or heavy clocked intel processor because this system is a real load eater

[LukeXE]

I'm glad you like it guys :) and i wish that future owner will have at least strong x2 or heavy clocked intel processor because this system is a real load eater

I agree :toast:

good job, I want to see this monster in "live" :woot:

[Ssilencer]

I dont know english name of this material (in polish its winidur). But its kind of industrial plastic as GorriLLakoS said ;) .

Btw its not a leidenfrost effect, i've only said that evaporation is faster with that huge load, too fast fot that kind of evap. You can do a simple research, heat up water first in 200mll metal cup and than in 8mm copper pipe. water in copper pipe will boil over. The same thing is happen in evap when load is too high.

There are 3 ways to fight with this. First way is to change evap to bigger one. Its not practical because its easier to insulate and use smaller evap. Second way is to undercharge the unit, overflooding wont be possible than such as good temps unfortunately. Third way is to protect compressor from overflooding doing a big slhx (+ accumulator optionally). But to keep the evap temp at good level you must rise refrigerant flow. Higher flow means lower evaporation temps but lower difference between load and idle evap temp as well.

I'm glad you like it guys :) and i wish that future owner will have at least strong x2 or heavy clocked intel processor because this system is a real load eater


If the evap can't handle the load, is not a problem of size, is a problem of design.

Second way is to undercharge the unit, overflooding wont be possible than such as good temps unfortunately. Third way is to protect compressor from overflooding doing a big slhx (+ accumulator optionally). But to keep the evap temp at good level you must rise refrigerant flow. Higher flow means lower evaporation temps but lower difference between load and idle evap temp as well.

Sorry but that doesn't have any sense, is a contradiction

[RaVeN155]

Yes it is, but the size does matter here, with bigger evap there will be more place for evaporating so this problem will come at higher load - high enaugh i think.

And yes it is a contradiction, you can lower overflooding lowering refrigerant flow(temps will get worse but you wont kill compressor) or make it work for you and live with it. second way is more difficult but brings a lot better results.

i hope you know what i am talking about :) (if not tell me exactly what you mind)

[kiwi]

Ssilencer:

I like your avatar :p: Who is it?

[LittleDevil]

Nice job...

Does conrad have resistors for load tester... link please

tnx

[SunTzu69]

Ssilencer:

I like your avatar :p: Who is it?

Agreed. Everytime Ssilencer posts I can't read his message... :slap:

[VoRtAn_MaDgE]

sc21cl is about twice better than nl11f but with load, there is no big difference in vaccum i think

i'm glad that you like it :)

How about the difference in noise ?

[RaVeN155]

Difference is simple, nl's are quiet and sc's sounds more powerfull ;) It's not quiet but i've heard louder compressors.

I like Ssilencer avat too :D (because of nice unit of course ;) )

LittleDevil - i dunno, i've bought it in normal electronic shop

[Ssilencer]

Ok, I will have to tell her to put the unit in other place of her body then...

[RaVeN155]

Today we've met with devil and matiz for some o/c. First they wanted to mod their mobo only but when i've finished soldering devil asked me about some benches with my cooling ;).

I've found out that my temp probe is propably broken, we didnt know why it shows that high temps like -32 or so but when i've checked evap temp with another probe it was less than -40 on 1,74v on cpu

I will post some pics with results later.

[DEVIL K-ce]

Today we've met with devil and matiz for some o/c. First they wanted to mod their mobo only but when i've finished soldering devil asked me about some benches with my cooling ;).

I've found out that my temp probe is propably broken, we didnt know why it shows that high temps like -32 or so but when i've checked evap temp with another probe it was less than -40 on 1,74v on cpu

I will post some pics with results later.

:woot:


Good dbx machine and very good o/c result on P4 631 Cedar Mill

100% o/c :D http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=77977

[RaVeN155]

http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/bench%20001.jpg
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/bench%20009.jpg
http://gorajec.net/raven/deepblackxtreme/bench%20011.jpg

[piotres]

Congratulations with WR Guys !! :toast: :toast:

Raven please use good probe tomorrow ;)

Regards
Peter

[Volt]

My God, 6Ghz!!!! that's awesome.

Good job man.

[runmc]

Congrats raven - ;) very nice job.

We need to call you - "The Polish King" I think I told you that before.:clap:

[LukeXE]

Congrats...6GHz...why you don`t tell me that earlier :p

Good job

[RaVeN155]

Good to hear it from you runmc :)

LukeXE - maybe because of i got up a few minutes ago :P

[Unseen]

Great bro ;)

I will try to catch u tommorow with my 631 :D
Here still on water ->http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=77677

[boardy]

Wow nice clocks and awsome S/S unit :D

Congrats on both those ;)

Boardy

[demek]

Great bro ;)

I will try to catch u tommorow with my 631 :D
Here still on water ->http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=77677

you must going to.....6750 Mhz :D
(link in my sig)

[Waus-mod]

i really love this unit man! haha 6g thats great!

[LIONS*LEADER]

yeah after reading it again i understood what he was saying. about the bubbles crowding the coolant out. nevertheless, the liedenfrost effect is cool as heck. and that link i provided is one interesting read.

after putting his hands into the 400+ degreed molten lead sucessfully like 2-3 times he decided to see if he could do it with dry hands... lmao and then the part where he pours liquid nitrogen in his mouth

funny stuff http://www.wiley.com/legacy/college/phy/halliday320005/pdf/leidenfrost_essay.pdf

"I heated the lead until its temperature was over 400C, well above its melting temperature of 328C. After wetting a finger in tap water, I prepared to touch the top surface of the molten lead...

...I must also confess that my first several attempts failed because my brain
refused to allow this ridiculous experiment, always directing my finger to miss the lead...

When I finally overcame my fears and briefly touched the lead, I was amazed. I felt no heat... I grew braver. After wetting my hand, I dipped all my fingers into the lead, touching the bottom of the container The contact with the lead was still too brief to result in a burn...

...I still questioned my explanation. Could I possibly touch the lead with a dry finger without suffering a burn? Leaving aside all rational thought, I tried it, immediately realizing my folly when pain raced through the finger.

...With a large glob of liquid nitrogen in my mouth, I concentrated on not swallowing while I breathed outward."

[maverik-sg1]

Pics are'nt showing??

Mav

[RaVeN155]

hi

problems with ftp, i'll fix it within a few days

[Brettbeck]

Pictures dont work here:( . Could someone maybe repost the links or someting? Thanks :) .

EDIT: Sorry didn't see the above post!

[epion2985]

pictures broken

[LukeXE]

They will work in next few days

[Revv23]

i want to see that slhx without insulation!

[RaVeN155]

np Revv23, just check first page of this topic :) pics are there.

[Sub zero]

Whoohoo pics again:toast:

[Revv23]

np Revv23, just check first page of this topic :) pics are there.

cool thanks, is that 1/4 inside of 3/8?

can you give me it approx length?

thanks again raven! and great work!

[RaVeN155]

np

1/4 inside 1/2 - about 2,8m lenght if i remember correctly

[targ]

do you know the ratio of the two gases?

cheers
targ

[RaVeN155]

hi, i dont know really but i'm making new unit for Maverik on the same compressor so i should find it out within a week or 2.

cheers