Vacuum pump question

[cold_ice]

I want to buy a new vaccum pump in the next days. I decided to take a Refco pump, but I didn't know which model I should choose.
First I wanted to take this one:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41253&stc=1&d=1134815910
But it has only a 1/4" SAE port, and my manifold has a 3/8" SAE hose for the vacuum pump. Is it a big difference when I only use a 1/4" hose for vacuuming instead of the 3/8"?

The RL4 has a 1/4" and a 3/8" port, and it has a higher diplacement, but it costs about 150€ (200$) more
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41254&stc=1&d=1134815910

[Gray Mole]

Well both of them will pull to 15 micron, so they will both do pretty much the same job.

Between the lower cfm, and the smaller port size, it will take a little longer to pull down to vacuum, but not all that much really.

If you were working with very large systems then the second one would likely be a better option but for the small systems we work with there's not really much need unless you're in a real hurry lol

My Yellow Jacket is virtually the same spec as the first one you list. 15 micron, though I think it's closer to 1.5 or 2 cfm(can't remember exactly) and it does the job very well. As long as you do your vaccing properly it really doesn't matter, and 15 micron ultimate vacuum is excellent.

For that much money extra, I'd say it's not worth it for what little you'll get in return.

Gray

[Death909]

Awwe, they look so happy...

Personally, I'd go for the cheaper one, unless of course you are not strapped for cash. Waiting twice the time is not a bad thing when you have other stuff to do.

[cold_ice]

I'm not sure, but I think I'll take the cheaper one. Maybe I buy a digital vacuum gauge instead investing 150€ in the bigger pump :D
Thx for the help.

[jinu117]

WTF... did you guys look at the weight? Man... my leybold is like 5-10 times the weight of those... -_-; Yes, this vacuum pump just won't die.

[aussie_guy00000]

Hey guys, i was also looking at a vacuum pump, I found a few relatively cheap ones, they pull 28.3" of vacuum at sea level apparently, is that suitable for vacing systems?. The different models just have different flow rates.

[Aphex_Tom_9]

i know it's a bit OT but those pumps looked so funny i had to drop an "lol"

[wdrzal]

Restrictions at low vacuum levels are critical ans greatly increase pump down times.. Always use the largest diamenter hose and shortest length. That said most just use the 1/4 sae hoses on their manifiold unless you have a 4 valve one that has a 3/8" hose.One of the best tools to reduce vacuum times is a valve core remover. You remove the core while vaccuuming,then replace to charge, they cost around $40.00 to $60.00. A heat gun helps remove moisture faster.

[yngndrw]

How can you remove the valve cores ? As after you have vacuumed the system and then charged it, you would be unable to remove the charging hoses due to the loss of refrigerant that you would get, no ?

[wdrzal]

not if you have a valve core remover tool, I take a pic and post it latter.

[the_new_guy]

can you just use a torch to heat the pipes while vacuuming?

[Jort]

can you just use a torch to heat the pipes while vacuuming?

yes you can, but with new installations there is almost no moisture in there.

[Jort]

http://www.ackits.com/tools/images/91490.jpg

http://www.azpartsmaster.com/shopazp/images/catalog/ashop/av100.jpg

here is the core remover:)

there are many types of them

[yngndrw]

Umm wow .. So how is one generally used ? I cant really see how that would be used .. :/

[Jort]

for the right handeling ask someone else, i had one in my hands but didn't use it:)

[LittleDevil]

I have one question... Which vaccump pump is better...?

Refco RL-2 or Wigam DIP 401...

tnx

[wdrzal]

if these small system cfm doesn't matter, so they have 2 cu.ft of air inside. the 1 st one will pull most out in 1 min and the 2nd one in 30 seconds. that doesn't mean thats all the vacumming you need to do, it will empty the air down to 29hg that quickly.its the last .91 that takes some time.

2 cfm is plenty. I'm don't think those are high quality pumps though. how much are they?

[wdrzal]

can you just use a torch to heat the pipes while vacuuming?


you never use a torch,use a heat gun. a torch is to hot and can cause the oxidation you are trying to prevent. Remember all the air isn't out.

[Entsafter]

wdrzal: Refco is a HIGH quality pump! It costs 400 euros....
I don't know the price of the Wigam, but I think it's in the same price range.

edit: Wigam DIP 401 is approx 380 euros...

[wdrzal]

the original refco are super pumps ,but the smiley face ones are made for the hobby market and not as good as the original ones. if you look they have a open cage motor.

[Entsafter]

The original Refco pumps have a smiley face -> watch out the new Refco 2006 catalog ...

REFCO High-Vacuum pumps
All vacuum pumps are now available in the unique ergonomic REFCO design.
Standard features are:
– Two-stage rotary vane pump
– Latest design and technology allows extremely compact design
– Built specifically for AC/R industry
– Internal oil pump with unique feature
– High end materials result in low weight and top quality
– Sturdy ergonomic handle stays cool to the touch
– Large and easily accessible oil fill port to prevent spillage when filling
– Sight glass for easy viewing of the oil level
– Built in on/off switch to prevent breakage or accidental shut off
– Gas ballast valve
– Easily replaceable one piece cartridge allows exchange without special tooling
– Special designed oil exhaust filter to reduce oil mist
– Modern metal, rugged pump design with high quality plastic housing to absorb shocks
– Extremely low point of gravity which makes tipping over in a service van nearly impossible
– Swiss quality production manufactured under ISO 9001
– Recommended oil change every 20 working hours

RL-2
The most compact and lightest in the REFCO range
Technical Data:
Dimensions: 271 x 166 x 195 mm
Weight: 3,8 kg
Free air
displacement: 35 l/min (1,25 cfm)
Factory micron
rating: 15 micron
Motor: 0,16 KW ( 1 ⁄ 5 HP) /
2400 rpm
Power supply: 220/240 V, 50/60 Hz
Connection: 1 ⁄ 4 ” SAE
Oil capacity: 125 ml
Included: DV-44 ( 1 ⁄ 4 l)

[star882]

can you just use a torch to heat the pipes while vacuuming?
That would be like using a sledge hammer to kill a fly - way overkill and too easy to damage something. It's suggested to use something like a hair dryer, portable heater, heat pads, heat lamps, or even sunlight.

[cold_ice]

If you look at the newest catalog of Refco, you can see that they only have these 3 modells with the smiley in the front. www.refco.ch
In Europe HVAC is not an open business like its in the US. So you can't go to refrigeration wholesale and go shopping. You must have a company in this branch or you must have good contacts to get parts. I never saw any hobby tools or cheap made parts at HVAC wholesale here.
The only hobby pumps I saw are sold on Ebay.
I have the RL2, and it's an awsome pump. 2 stage pump, gas ballast valve, very light and small, gets the vacuum in my units down to 200-300 microns.

Ok Entsafter was faster.

[Big SturL]

Hahahaha, just take which ever looks the happiest :haha:

[Patrickclouds]

i wouldn´t say, that the rl2 is a toy for hobby.
the old refco royal 2 has similar specs
http://www.intelectra-shop.de/pimages/big/403113.jpg
http://www.intelectra-shop.de/files/403113d.pdf
and the new rl series:
http://www.ecr-ref.com/paulus/telefichier/d_s478_s488.pdf

[wdrzal]

i have some old refco tools that were made in switserland and they are the highest industrial quality, now somewhere refco did a 180 degee turn and start selling only "generic" tools . All I know is the Refco of today does not sell the same quality tools of earlier years.

[jinu117]

heh... only refco i use and I don't mind is their charging scale right now. Very nice with good resolution. Cheaper than TIF with same resolution :P

[wdrzal]

almost all the chips for those scales (&most dectors)are made by the same company, ATP (advanced test products) who is owned by SPX corperation. They market under many names worldwide.

I bet if someone digs around in the history of refco,especialy in switzerland ,I'll bet there was a change in ownership or a MAJOR change in the market they are going after.

Do you make more money producing yourself high quality tools and only selling to the trade or buy cheap "generic" ones at a low cost from china and sell them to masses for a big mark-up.

To some only the bottom line matters.

I was very disapointed to see robinair and ritchie yellow jacket are also selling "generic" lines along with their high quality tool lines. Experienced people can tell the difference but many can't.

[cold_ice]

And which company makes the really high quality tools nowadays then? Here Refco, Wigam, ITE and maybe Rothenberger and Fischer are the companies with the biggest range of refrigeration tools.
The Refco manifolds seem to be the same as the old ones which you see sometimes on ebay. I see no difference in quality.

[jinu117]

And which company makes the really high quality tools nowadays then? Here Refco, Wigam, ITE and maybe Rothenberger and Fischer are the companies with the biggest range of refrigeration tools.
The Refco manifolds seem to be the same as the old ones which you see sometimes on ebay. I see no difference in quality.

Fischer... :)
One of my vacuum pump is maximus 2... by Fischer. Thing is darned heavy... 45lbs or so? and almost takes twice more volume than my 6cfm Robinair as 2cfm... but you gotta love it's quietness. Some hermatic compressors are louder than this vacuum pump... For over night vacuuming this one gets the go. To be honest on single stage though, not too much difference in getting great vacuum between these 2 pumps timewise.

[cold_ice]

I know Fischer makes nice tools. Had an old Fischer vacuum pump, which was in use for many years by a company. Still worked fine for me, and i got it for free :D
But for example the Fischer manifold looks totaly the same as the Deluxe Refco Manifold.
Here Fischer Manifold with snap-on scales:
http://www.mastercooler.net/Bilder/Marktplatz%20Ebay/Manometerbatterie/DSCF0008.jpg
and here the Refco: