Goliath Online Project

[Icy]

This is my thread about the project im working on. Will update when info comes with pics.

Just to wet your whistle here is the PC at the moment. Pre SS Mode. With just some water cooling. Heh kinda went a bit mad on the tube i know but i did not want any tight bends so went for sweeping bends.
Everyone likes a bit of Wood XD made my self a nice cheep shroud/rad holder for the top of the pc. Also had to turn the rez at an angle as it sounded like a deep fat fryer. heh.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40946&stc=1&d=1134246420
Just waiting for the post man to come with a load of bits and bobs so will take a pic of them as and when they come. Compressor/Dryer expected on Monday.
Basic Idea of the final pc. Im a bit unsure if i need to use the bottom part yet it depends on the size of the compressor when its in place so cant really do mutch till parts start to arive.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40950&stc=1&d=1134249865
I think im going to need wheels :D
Next post tools i have so far XD

[Icy]

Saved for later updates.

[aussie_guy00000]

i've got a similar res to the one you've got, if you remove all the air, i.e fill it right up to the top, you won't get the noise of the liquid sloshing around :banana:. I have a very similar setup to you, my case is almost identical, although yours looks a bit taller in the top section. What brand is yours, mine is an old Ipex tower, apparently had a pentium 2 or 3 in it orginally.

[Icy]

i dont have a clue all i know is its old lol i also managed to find another one exactly the same in a skip so i got that in the shed and its allmost ready to join to the side heh. here is a pic of the front of the case.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40954&stc=1&d=1134253087

hope that helps. i think its just one of those generic unbranded types

[aussie_guy00000]

The front's different, but the chassis was probably made by the same people. I found that the case is a bit narrow for my liking. I put 2 120mm fans in the side door (right where my 7800gtx is) and there's about 10mm between the fan and my graphics card (no room to put a DD NV7800 block on the card :( ). I've managed to cram a BIP 3 in the top where you've got yours, was a tight fit but, takes up the top 5 1/4 bay. Come to think of it, mine has 6x 5 1/4 bays too, so the chassis's must be the same, yours looks like it's got more room in the top but, must be because mines chockers with pipes and cables. I will post some pics as soon as i take some.

[Icy]

yeah it is a very narow case thats why im going to join the other one to make it 2x as wide so that should fix that problem. If worst comes to worst im going to just put the compressor on the top side where the psu is and just move stuff around till it fits. If the PSU was at the bottom of the other case would leave a nice big hole to fill heh. i have also been toying with the idea of turning the case on its top. to give the bottom a large open section and the top for mobo.

[Detract]

Make sure there is enough room to get the suction hose past the graphics card without interfering with the side panel. My coolermaster case is quite narrow as well and it just fits, albeit with a little persuasion.

[runmc]

Without Phase Change, this thread could be considered water cooling. Please get some "Phase" in here soon

Thanks:D

[Icy]

Rofl Will get some in here ASAP ;) But it is all about Phase Change down deep just not got any pics of my tools/bits yet :D
heh some people just have no patience must be a night mare at christmas j/k :banana:

Yeah as for the design im going to be loosing the bottom part and just keeping the double width case. As i really dont need more space also with the extra bottom i dont think i will be able to lift it myself. lol So this will mean that the evap hose will come from the back of the mobo tray through some holes close to the front of the case. Will get some more pics a bit later :woot:

Edit: whaaaa scary avatar dude. :eek: kinda reminds me of one of my exgirlfriends rofl.

[Icy]

Little update just some bits i have so far.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40997&stc=1&d=1131110061
Brazing tools. Diffrent rods for testing and practice.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40998&stc=1&d=1131110061
Map(p) gas bottle.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40999&stc=1&d=1131110061
Torch tip has a swirl design to it. Duno if thats good or not but thats what i have and did not cost a lot so cant moan about it lol

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41000&stc=1&d=1131110061
Basic flaring kit with pipe cutter. This one is alot better as its bigger and is more robust than my old one.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41001&stc=1&d=1131110061
Little caliper thought it might come in usefull for when i start to put stuff together and for working out sized of scavanged parts :D

[yngndrw]

Cool are they the Copper Phosphorous rods ? If so I have the same torch and rods but havnt tried them yet .. Will be interesting if they are good enough for doing this kinda work. :)

Good luck with your project.

[Icy]

yeah they are the copper phosphorous 710'c-802'c Rods by Bernzomatic. Well i bought some plumbers copper pipe to test on and it does work really well put it this way the pipe gives before the braze does. But the real test will be when i pressure test the system but that is a little while away yet as my compressor has not arived or anyother components =(

[Icy]

Little update. Compressor/Parts are still delayed will get more info on Monday. Now have a nice 11Kg bottle of r290 in the shed waiting to be used. :D

Here is a little link to the compressor i will be using. Its high back pressure but im sure it will be ok P14TY (http://www.cubigel.com/java/X?cgi=cubigel.compressors.ShowDataSheet&climate=43&refrig=R12&ccool=F&id=P14TY@061@U@F@CSIR&tcond=55&productcode=p14ty&POWER_UNITS_STR=kcal/h&refrig=REFRIG_TODAS&TEMP_UNITS_STR=%B0C&tsobcal=27&imgFileName=top_compressorsAll.jpg&climate=CLIMA_TODAS&partug=1&cond=CECOMAF&tgasasp=32&tevap=5&tsubenf=0&ug=1&isTLiq=&ccool=COOL_TODAS&factor1=1&tfreq=TFREQ_TODAS&seccion=compresoresporcodigo&condtypestandard=1&applic=HMBP&tambient=32&subseccion=datos_ss) uhh i sware the text was in english the other day Also PDF version with more info (http://www.cubigel.com/TecnicalData/P14TY@061@U@F@CSIR_785090)
Also orderd 15m of 3/8" and 1/4" tube, Will order manifold over the next few days.

[Gray Mole]

Looks like you've just about set.

That's an interesting torch head. At first it didn't look up to it, but with the 'Swirl' end it's what you need for Mapp, and it sounds like it's working for brazing so it's all good. Nice flare and swage kit too. :)

700-800c copper phosphorous rods are what you need, and you may want to consider looking for some 15-40% Silver for your SS to copper with Flux, and it's nice to use ay least 15% for the evap as well.

Looking forward to seeing how it goes, and of course we're here to flame you*cough* errr to help you along the way ;)

Cheers

Gray

[Icy]

check out my crappy brazing :(
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41272&stc=1&d=1134851407
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41273&stc=1&d=1134851407

could not find a wire brush so i just wiped off all the nasty stuff that i could the pics dont look very good as my cam is really old and is held together with cable ties the pinky looking one i brazed in alot shorter time but the actual braze looks alot better. All i have atm is the flaring cit so i cant really fit the tubes into each other. Anyhow any advice would be great.
Atm i heat up the copper till its allmost red and then test with a brazing rod once it starts to flow in i move around the pipe and just fill the flare as much as i can then i go around again just to be sure. as you can see sometimes it overflows a bit but hay at least its more than enough lol

[Icy]

Also got this sound from Starcraft for a startup sound when the pc turns on.

[johann]

Those rods you bought from B&Q is very expensive and I found they dont work so well.

I bought a kilogram of 15% silver rods from Bes for £15, theres about a 100 rods in there and they work way much better.

I find that with 15% brazing to stainless I dont get good flow, with 40% silver its really great but the rods are about £4 each from Dean & Wood.

I use the exact same torch, it was cheap and works like a charm

[Icy]

yeah orderd some new rods along with some tube from bes the other day so should get it soon. And yeah those B&Q ones cost a fortune lol not going to make that mistake again rofl.

[yngndrw]

On the subject of suppliers and swaging: What swaging tool would you surggest to use (+ stock number if possible) that can be sourced in the UK ? I'm interested in a swaging tool which works like the flaring tool pictured above, instead of the 'swaging punches'.

[Icy]

found this on ebay its like a flaring kit but also swags with the same press. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLARING-AND-SWAGING-TOOL-KIT-45-DEGREES_W0QQitemZ7571034546QQcategoryZ633QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Or go here for a large selection of bits and bobs that might suit you needs HERE (http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2erdgtools%2e co%2euk%2facatalog%2fhome%2ehtml&WD=swaging&SHOP=%20&PN=PIPE_BENDERS_AND_SWAGING_TOOLS%2ehtml%23a987956 3#a9879563)

[yngndrw]

Hmm, very nice, cheers mate. :)

BUY IT NOW AT £29.50

NORMAL PRICE £69.00
How long has it been at £30 ? Just wondering if I need to rush out and buy it, or if that's just to get people to buy quickly, and it has been that price for a while / will stay that price for quite a while longer.

[Icy]

its that price in there online shop. no hurry heh u can get a simpler kit that does the same tubes for £25 inc vat

[yngndrw]

Ah okay cheers, I'll probably end up getting one of them soon. :)

[johann]

its that price in there online shop. no hurry heh u can get a simpler kit that does the same tubes for £25 inc vat

I have that same swagging/flaring kit and it works great. Bought from the same guy. The quality is good, its not some classic el cheapo stuff

[Icy]

Tubes arived today not 100% what i orderd but got a better deal so who cares lol. 1/4 x 15m and 1/2 x 15m have reorderd 3/8 so that should arive sometime soon. :D
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=41375&stc=1&d=1135017784

Compressor should have been sent out today so that will with any luck arive before xmas if not im going to be going to have to go there myself and get it.... :mad:

Apart from that just reworking my pc case for a more "Arty" design. :banana:

[Xenogias]

This thread has been pretty interesting so far. I appreciate the brazing tips. Anybody have a link to a good brazing guide/demonstration, because this is the most daunting thing holding me back from trying to build one myself. That and the cost to buy all the tools.

[Icy]

Tell me about it im starting from new and still spending about £100 a week on bits and tools. kinda all i can afford atm but i see it as an investment lol

[Bergo]

most of the startup cost associated with it is tools, and tools are ALWAYS a good investment, or, at least have been for me.

[RussC]

Gotta read the stickies, NOOBs. That the first thing you should be doing, theres a brazing guide right there.....:fact:

Brazing Guide (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37434)

RussC

This thread has been pretty interesting so far. I appreciate the brazing tips. Anybody have a link to a good brazing guide/demonstration, because this is the most daunting thing holding me back from trying to build one myself. That and the cost to buy all the tools.

[yngndrw]

I read through that guide a while ago, but it got a bit confused at times with the starting order of the torch, etc ..

Anyhow, on the subject of brazing, is it possible to 'de-braze' ? Ie: If I had a phase-change system which I had made, but I wanted to use the condensor from it in another project for example, how would I be able to remove / reuse it ? Can I just 'de-braze' it like I would desolder in electronics ?

[aussie_guy00000]

That's what pipe cutters are for :D

[RussC]

In theory, you can de-braze just like removing solder from a soldered connection. But the temps with braze are much higher. Ive removed brazed connections are re-used them on the condenser in my system. But you need a very hot torch, perferably something that uses oxy. The copper slid right out of my stuff when hot enough. The new tube needed a little sanding, very lightly, and it went right in the bigger pipe. But this is not a guarantee it will work for you.

As above, tube cutters are your friend.

RussC

I read through that guide a while ago, but it got a bit confused at times with the starting order of the torch, etc ..

Anyhow, on the subject of brazing, is it possible to 'de-braze' ? Ie: If I had a phase-change system which I had made, but I wanted to use the condensor from it in another project for example, how would I be able to remove / reuse it ? Can I just 'de-braze' it like I would desolder in electronics ?

[yngndrw]

Ah okay then, I was just hoping that there would be a 'neater' way than using a tube cutter, so that you dont end up with a row of swaged joints after a few uses.
Cheers.

[Icy]

Small Tiny Tiny Tiny Tiny...... HUGE progress jump in my build has just happend and all i can really say is that the village postman who uses a peddal bike was so Pissed! (sry for language but im happy!) anyhow pictures as follows. Its a p12ty compressor not a p14ty but hay its not a huge amount of difference but its still going to do the job just as well.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42397&stc=1&d=1137406037
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42398&stc=1&d=1137406037
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42399&stc=1&d=1137406037

sry about my picture quality =( my cam is really crappy and was free from a competition like 3 years ago heh 1 mega pixle oh the joy... :D

[Icy]

after getting the side pannel off i am trying to work out what wire goes where. any help would be good. here is a little pic of what i got.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42401&stc=1&d=1137421452

http://www2.the-acc-group.com/cubigel/compressors2/Imgs/Esq/ESQ031.gif

its not said anywhere on that unit what the 3 connections are for so any advice would be great. thx all

[Icy]

also has anyone tryed water cooling the condenser before and does it work very well? as i have a spare water cooling system from my pc

[Fhqwhgads6680]

Are the connections labeled R-S-C? if so check this thread out, its a bit different that that compressor, but I can tell you how I wired mine going for this thread if it his those labels on it. im not sure since mine is rotary.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37061&highlight=wiring+compressor

Did that compressor have a run capacitor like in that thread? I'm not sure if it needs it or not...Wish I could help more but im still a noob at this stuff. GL!

[Icy]

oki got it working. basicaly on there website L N 1 G is the layout of there just that i needed to use 1 instead of L as shown on there site. Also 1 more bit of advice needed heh how are you ment to purge the compressor/condenser/other parts when brazing and is it really a big deal if i dont. i know purging the evaprator is but just woundering if its that important do purge the rest. thx

[Fhqwhgads6680]

I don't think brazing up line in the rest of the system without purging is going to hurt at all. I haven't seen anyone yet that has purged the entire system, just the evap cause thats where you need the surface contact for the best cooling which is why it is purged. hope that helps!

[MaRtIe]

Where did you get that compressor?

[Detract]

I don't think brazing up line in the rest of the system without purging is going to hurt at all. I haven't seen anyone yet that has purged the entire system, just the evap cause thats where you need the surface contact for the best cooling which is why it is purged. hope that helps!

I thought we purged to prevent oxidisation occuring on the copper?

[{.bLanK} GoD]

Your absolutly right Detract. Nitrogen (or another inert gas) is used to purge the oxygen from the system whilst brazing. No oxyen=no oxidisation.

[Icy]

I got the compressor from Coolfreeze DONT use them it took 6 weeks to be deliverd it was the wrong compressor and the lower version down + they over charged. DONT use them lol. Im actualy in talks now to get a refund of the extra cash they charged but i probably wont get it back.
Its just an Electrolux p12ty http://www2.the-acc-group.com/java/X?cgi=cubigel.compressors.ShowDataSheet&climate=43&refrig=R12&ccool=F&id=P12TY@061@U@F@CSIR&tcond=55&POWER_UNITS_STR=kcal/h&refrig=R12&TEMP_UNITS_STR=%B0C&tsobcal=27&imgFileName=top_compressorsAll.jpg&climate=CLIMA_TODAS&partug=1&cond=CECOMAF&tgasasp=32&tevap=5&tsubenf=0&ug=1&isTLiq=0&ccool=COOL_TODAS&factor1=1&tfreq=TFREQ_TODAS&seccion=compresoresbusqueda&pfrigug=1&pfrig=&tfreqBase=TFREQ_TODAS&condtypestandard=1&tambient=32&applic=HMBP&subseccion=datos_ss
so yeah as far as brazing goes i have not seen anyone here purging the hole system so i just thought i would ask to double check.

[MaRtIe]

yeah ive herd alot of bad stuff about coolfreeze... shame really they have some good parts.

do you know if they overcharge on other things? like dryers ans stuff.

what temps are you hoping to get with this design

[pocketbikeuk]

yeah ive herd alot of bad stuff about coolfreeze... shame really they have some good parts.

do you know if they overcharge on other things? like dryers ans stuff.

what temps are you hoping to get with this design


they are cheap for r22 and will even supply without asking for a license wouldnt buy dryers and stuff from them use bes or one of the others plus the brazing set is good for £65 come with everything you need.

[Icy]

I would say just stay clear of them fullstop. They igorned all my emails and did not return calls. Once i said i would be going to there main HQ and getting the goods in person and would like to meet the guy in charge they send the items and i got them the following day. but 6 weeks for a compressor and dryer + valves is just nuts. I would recomend Bes ALL day long as they are true to there word. :D

[Icy]

As for temps im not quite sure yet its going to be my first system so im still learning lol. but i will be happy with anything below -35/40 lol but im tunning a p4 3ghz @ 3.6 anyone know how much heat they put out? so i can make myself a test device? thx

[{.bLanK} GoD]

84 - 86 watts

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/products/box_processors/desktop/proc_dsk_p4/technical_reference/99346.htm#specifications

[{.bLanK} GoD]

http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm#intel

Thats a better link

[Skinny13]

will you change the oil @ the compressor?

[Icy]

will probably change the oil just to be on the safe side. but will have to see how it goes seeing as how r290 can carry any oil its not really a problem will probably just keep r12

[Icy]

Little update. seeing as i have a watercooling system i thought i would try and make a watercooled condenser. should work ok heh :D

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2632/system3yo.jpg

as you can see its just 13 foot of 1/2 with about 14 foot of 1/4 inside. probably going to need a better pump. but will just see how it goes. yey for wood!

[FragTek]

gl with the wc'd condensor m8, hope it works out for you. it's a nifty idea!

[boardy]

Just subscribing to this one :D

[Icy]

yey had a little visit from Pocketbikeuk gave me some advice and also some extra parts that i needed. I made the stupid mistake of forgetting the valve core was still in the valve when i brazed it upto the dryer :slap: oh well i wont do that again lol.

Just another little update compressor + desuperheater + condenser are now brazed and just finished the dryer + service valve + captube so i can put that on tomorrow sometime.

The water cooled condenser is now fully finished and pumping away and has quite a good flow rate so im very happy with it should work really well.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9264/icy16rh.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7482/icy28xh.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/6664/icy37ah.jpg

yey its all starting to look more and more like a phase change system rofl

so just suction line and evap to go now will probably make myself a little evap out of an old waterblock just to test and use some tube for suction just to get some ice lol

[Icy]

Cap tube + dryer + service valve installed XD getting there i was given some .026 captube from Pocketbikeuk so im going to use that to see what its like. Also im too lazy to get my own heh

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3549/icy43nd.jpg

oh the joy of having a nice thin res helps alot to save space wish i had make a bigger base for the system =( oh well allways next time lol

[Icy]

btw Matt those rods you have area really great the best ones i have used yet! im going to have to order myself a few kg's of them :D

[pocketbikeuk]

cool glad i could help ive been fine tunning my system 2day but my g/f kicked my guages opening the valve and i didnt notice my system filled with propane up to 40psig when running loaded the compressor got so hot it shut off i thought it had died lol ohwell still works good

[Icy]

heh i bet you gf was just jealous and just kicked it =P

[Icy]

Well we have FROST! :woot: Because the evap is not ready yet i had decided to use a coil to test the system, So on the first try me and Pocketbikeuk got it to -45 before the cap tube got blocked. so going to do a tripple evac and see if that helps.
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9238/coil6vq.jpg

As you can see Pocketbikeuk orderd a flex line from johann for me, so thats now on there. Im using 75 inchs of 0.026 captube at the moment and that seems to be working great. Also as you can see in the pic i now have a small bottle of Argon for purging that is attached to a service valve so thats going to be quite handy to braze the evap as soon as its done i dont like the idea of using Propane and its a nice cheapish way of purging as i dont really want to have to lug a huge bottle around.

Been spending a little while doing all the wires for the system to make them nice and neat and to only use 1 plug/lead,
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4638/zap7xu.jpg
The first switch turns on the water cooled condenser + the 12v transformer that powers the 2x120mm, 1x80mm fans, the 2nd switch that can only be turned on when the first switch is on powers the compressor. Quite neat i think and only zaped my self once :rolleyes: (pulled wrong plug out from wall then started work thinking it was not live, will now check 3x from now on heh). Made a order from BES yesterad for manifold + charge lines and some more valves and armaflex insulation. Next thing to do is find another compressor to make into a evac machine.
Would also like to say thanks to everyone that helped me get to this stage. Also a big THANKS to pocketbikeuk for helping me get frosty.

[pocketbikeuk]

dont worry 2morrow it will be up and running with lots of frost :-)

[Icy]

got a new little baby today its a Necchi ESM3 1/10 rofl when i turned it on i thought it was broken but its so sooooo quiet! compared to my P12TY its so small. "awwww pats it" so yeah probably going to just play with it a bit and see what i can do :D

[MaRtIe]

yes pocketbike is kool :)

[Carlz0r]

got a new little baby today its a Necchi ESM3 1/10 rofl when i turned it on i thought it was broken but its so sooooo quiet! compared to my P12TY its so small. "awwww pats it" so yeah probably going to just play with it a bit and see what i can do :D
Maybe make a chipset or ram cooler? That'd be kind of neat.

[pocketbikeuk]

got a new little baby today its a Necchi ESM3 1/10 rofl when i turned it on i thought it was broken but its so sooooo quiet! compared to my P12TY its so small. "awwww pats it" so yeah probably going to just play with it a bit and see what i can do :D

i have a 1/10th compressor here aswell i also have a little project we can do with them if your interested anyway il c ya 2nite and il talk to u about it then

[Icy]

after a visit to pocketbikeruk's crib this is what the results were.

Lowest temp we managed to get
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1020/temp3xz.jpg

Pocketbikeuk, his unit(top) my unit(below)
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3408/pocket5so.jpg

Frosty!
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3301/frosty0tk.jpg

[MaRtIe]

damn, wish i lived by u guys.. looks like ya get up to some fun :fact:

nice units

[MaRtIe]

whats that adaptor u have screwed onto the argon/oxy gas can, the one you use for perging?

[Icy]

its the standard cosmos(same as bottle) regulator but with a 1/4 barb with a 1/4tube+service valve brazed on, you can buy them both from B&Q

[MaRtIe]

Alright, thanks