X1800XT Crossfire vs. nVidia 7800GTX SLI !!!!

[hwgeek]

hi !

look here on the X1800XT CF performance

"While the exact performance results achieved comparing X1800XT Crossfire with 7800GTX SLI can not yet be published, we can tell you we benchmarked with F.E.A.R., Quake 4, Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory, Doom 3, Far Cry, and 3DMark05 at 1600x1200 resolution with 4X AA and 8X AF enabled. ATI X1800XT Crossfire won every benchmark over nVidia 7800GTX SLI in these tests."

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2609&p=4

[DilTech]

They compared the 256mb GTX in sli to the x1800xt CF... Considering the x1800xt beats the 256mb GTX, why is it a surprise it'd be different with CF and SLi. Results would be different with the 512mb GTX in SLi vs. the x1800xt CF.

[`SippY]

well the x1800xt is a more powerfull card therefor you would think it would, unless CF is much worse

[`SippY]

they dont need to compare to the 512 because the xt is made to be cpompared to the 256 version and not the 512, if it were 512 then it would be CF r580

[softpain]

Well why don't you want to wait for the tweaked 1800xt....as far as i know it took nvidia 5 months to tweak their gtx 256mo to get that "ultra" one...oh well of course in 5 months the gtx 512 will be outclassed we all know that...right? ;-)

[softpain]

Well GTX 512 is a refresh that took nvidia 5 months to tweak it after the gtx 256....
And it s a limited edition,no?
Of course if ATI cannot have an 1800 xt "refresh" soon my argument is moot lol

[Kunaak]

you know, from where I stand, the X1800XT is still pretty much vaporware... it does me no good at all, if I can read benchmarks and reviews for weeks on end... yet I can't find the card in stock anywhere.

everytime I go to newegg its out of stock.
anytime I look at bestbuy.com its not there...
its not at zipzoomfly....again...
it's at monarchcomputers, but for me, they are a last resort place to order from, and if that cards truely meant to go against the regular GTX... then why bother?
the X1800XT is $600 at the only place I can find it... yet it's competitor, is only $450 and pretty much everywhere...

and where on earth am I suppose to get a crossfire X1800XT?
hell I haven't even heard a company hint about releasing one, except the occassional high end review websites, like Anandtech and THG... again, making crossfire with the X1800XT even more vaporware, cause I can dream all I want, but if the cards not even a whisper on the market, what good does that do me??

then to top it all off...

the 512 meg 7800 GTX is everywhere, and easy to find in stock.
the prices still suck, but atleast if I wanted I know I could pick 2 of them up today, and have it running by the weekend...
which, is something I can only dream about, when thinking of crossfire... :(

[Weee]

they dont need to compare to the 512 because the xt is made to be cpompared to the 256 version and not the 512, if it were 512 then it would be CF r580

Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with the sentiment of this comment. If two cards are publicly available within like a week of each other, you are telling me they shouldn't be directly compared because you feel bad for ATi since they were only trying to pass a certain bar for an old card from their competition?

Too bad, 512MB GTX vs. 512MB X1800XT is the reality at the high end, so those are the ones that should be used to compared high end CF and SLI.

[FrOsT_frt]

Well why don't you want to wait for the tweaked 1800xt....as far as i know it took nvidia 5 months to tweak their gtx 256mo to get that "ultra" one...oh well of course in 5 months the gtx 512 will be outclassed we all know that...right? ;-)

So ati needs 5 months to answer to 512 gtx...
Just like ati needed 5 months to answer to 256 gtx...
:cool:

[DilTech]

5-6 months = refresh time. ATi took 5 months to release something to compete, NVidia released a card within a week of the release date of the x1800xt. The x1800xt and 512mb 7800GTX came out within a week apart, therefore THOSE cards compete! MSRP is $50 difference with the x1800xt and 7800gtx 512mb, while it's $150-$200 different between the x1800xt and 7800gtx 256mb, so wouldn't it only be logical to compare the 7800gtx 512 and x1800xt?

By your logic, the X850xt was competiting with the 7800gtx 256mb, since those were released 5-6 months apart... :stick: Notice we all said the 7800gtx 256mb went without ANY competition for 5 months, because we weren't comparing it with a 6 month old card, which is what you guys are attempting to do now.

Jeez...

The GTX 512mb faces off with the X1800xt, is it THAT hard to understand people?

R580 is still months away, and will be up against a totally different behemoth. Either a 90nm low-k G70 with speeds 700mhz+ or the imfamous G80, it all depends on which one NVidia needs. The 7800gtx 512mb is just a tide over for NVidia to keep the crown until then. Just because you feel sorry for ATi in their current position doesn't mean rules magically change for you them.

CF x1800xt vs 7800GTX 512mb SLi. THAT'S the battle at hand, or will be at hand considering we won't see CF x1800xt's until january at the earliest.

[Tim]

I don't even see what the discussion is here......GTX is out...GT is out..512mb GTX is out...all in SLI...

X1800XT 512mb is "out" (not really) X1800XL is out....other then that nothing really, can you Crossfire them anywhere before January? I think not...

So how can vapor technology actually compete with a card that was released 7 months ago, and could be put in SLI the instant it was out? (from June to January is 7 months)

How exactly...that comment by ATI is so flawed.....response from nVidia was almost instant.

[DilTech]

Exactly tim, vapor can only beat hardware when there's condensation in it...

[Arkangyl]

So if we compare the best card from each maker that's actually for sale in quantity...


X1800XL vs. 7800 GTX 512mb..

yea...

Sounds like ATI might get their next gen parts out before the X1800's and CF really come out en masse.

[Ubermann]

You find the 512 GTX in many shops ?

Maybe X1800XL vs 256 GTX is correct..

[`SippY]

wtf LOL?

X1800XT 512Mb vs GTX 512Mb
X1800XT 256mb vs GTX 256mb

easy no?

just becasue it has a diff ammount of memory dosent mean it wasnet made to compete with something that has less

[`SippY]

the 512 meg 7800 GTX is everywhere, and easy to find in stock.
the prices still suck, but atleast if I wanted I know I could pick 2 of them up today, and have it running by the weekend...
which, is something I can only dream about, when thinking of crossfire... :(
i can find the x1800xt in stock, who's problem is it that you cant ;)
i see it in stock just as much as the nv512, which is never, heh they both sell out right when new orders come in

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143044
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=190492

sold out!

[[XC] moddolicous]

if u read the article, it said that ATI will be releasing a PE version that would compete with the 7800 512mb version.

[_JP_]

they dont need to compare to the 512 because the xt is made to be cpompared to the 256 version and not the 512, if it were 512 then it would be CF r580

ARE YOU CRAZY???

Read the roadmaps...

GTX 512MB-->X1800XT 512MB
G71-->R580
G80-->R600/620

[_JP_]

if u read the article, it said that ATI will be releasing a PE version that would compete with the 7800 512mb version.

Its only a little refresh +25Mhz in core and memory

[Victorshen]

Its only a little refresh +25Mhz in core and memory
25Mhz will make no difference to the final results

[perkam]

Ok...on the comparison thing, hows this ?

Nvidia 7800GTX 512MB - ATI X1800XTPE 512MB (Would be same price)
Nvidia 7800GTX 256MB - X1800XT 256MB/512MB (256MB one would be similar pricing)
Nvidia 7800GT - ATI X1800XL 256MB (usually within $30 of each other, very similar pricing)

That should settle it ;)

Perkam

[softpain]

Well for how long;that is the question...;-)

[DilTech]

Ok...on the comparison thing, hows this ?

Nvidia 7800GTX 512MB - ATI X1800XTPE 512MB (Would be same price)
Nvidia 7800GTX 256MB - X1800XT 256MB/512MB (256MB one would be similar pricing)
Nvidia 7800GT - ATI X1800XL 256MB (usually within $30 of each other, very similar pricing)

That should settle it ;)

Perkam
X1800XT = $599 7800GTX 512mb = $649...$50 difference, makes them compete.

Until the XTPE is released, the X800XT is what's facing off with the 7800gtx 512mb. That's how the world of competition works. Feel sorry for ATi all day long, it wouldn't have been this way had they not have given microsoft exclusitivty to the R500, right now ATi would be laughing at NVidia's feeble G70 chip.

Either way, ATi, king of the paper launch, has to face facts. Their XT is up against a monster of a card, in a fight it cannot win. It'll be 2 months minimum before they can release this XTPE(which, 25mhz more on core and ram ISN'T going to be enough, albeit that's what they told board partners to feed it), and even then it'll be a paper launch. By the time you can buy it, it'll be refresh time.

If you wanna say it's XTPE vs 512mb GTX, that makes it Paper vs. Hardware, and hardware wins that battle.

[perkam]

X1800XT = $599 7800GTX 512mb = $649...$50 difference, makes them compete. I've only seen the 512MB GTX for $699 or more...at Newegg some are $749, a whole $150 above the XT...the same amount many claim the XT is above the 256MB GTX ;)

Perkam

[DilTech]

Software plus, in st.louis missouri on olive road, $649, in stock... You can walk right into the store and buy it right this second.

[`SippY]

If you wanna say it's XTPE vs 512mb GTX, that makes it Paper vs. Hardware, and hardware wins that battle.
yes hardware does win the battle obviously but that dosent change the fact of what the card was released to compete against which in x1800xt's case was the standard gtx

[perkam]

Software plus, in st.louis missouri on olive road, $649, in stock... You can walk right into the store and buy it right this second. I'm afraid that is in no way indicative of the market price or availability in general, which is what we're talking about. Software plus isn't newegg or Monarch. If there was a store here in toronto that got an X1800XT shipment on day of launch from ATI's headquarters here 30mins away, ATI would love to say it, but there's no way anyone could imply that based on that there's worldwide availability for the card.

Perkam

[`SippY]

Software plus, in st.louis missouri on olive road, $649, in stock... You can walk right into the store and buy it right this second.

most of the people that want it i dont think are gonna be able to go there and get it, so in general its over $700, one place means nothing

[shine121]

So should i take a X1800XT or just wait for the months away R580?

[ex2cib]

ok, my take on the whole matter.

if it takes a company A 5 months to release a competing product with company B(N), the company A has really screwed up.

it doesn't matter what ATI says their card is competing with, as a consumer, i won't go and look to see what ATI says before purchasing, i would look at performance and then price. As of right now the most expensive parts (X1800XT and 7800 GTX 512mb) are the most expensive and also offer the most performance for each company. go look at graphics benchmarks, you dont see card bracketed off saying "these two compete". there is a whole list of different cards.

so please dont sit here and pat ATI on the back and offer congratulations for finally getting their card released 5 months late. If ATi had their card out during the summer, everyone would probably have one of them and not a GTX right now.

so once again, its what the CONSUMER decides is the competing card, not what the COMPANY says is the competing card. and im willing to bet we could make a poll on the matter and the 512mb GTX would be the competing card for the x1800XT based on what >>consumers<< think.

[DilTech]

Amen ex2cib...

It's x1800xt and 7800gtx 512mb. One companies high-end vs. the other companies high end. That's how it works!

[twiggy]

OK so as of right now its XT vs GTX512, XL vs GTX256 and GT vs nothing? And when the XTPE comes it'll be XTPE vs GTX512, XT vs GTX256 and XL vs GT.....right? :confused:

[DilTech]

No, it's 512mb XT vs 512mb GTX, 256mb XT vs 256mb GTX, GT vs XL.

If the XTPE comes out too late(as in mid-late Q1) it won't be against the 512mb GTX, it *will* have itself a war on it's hands because, like I said NVidia will do their actual refresh next quarter. The 512mb GTX is simply a tide over to trump the 512mb XT. A VERY smart business move, so to speak.

[`SippY]

ok, my take on the whole matter.
so please dont sit here and pat ATI on the back and offer congratulations for finally getting their card released 5 months late. If ATi had their card out during the summer, everyone would probably have one of them and not a GTX right now.

so once again, its what the CONSUMER decides is the competing card, not what the COMPANY says is the competing card. and im willing to bet we could make a poll on the matter and the 512mb GTX would be the competing card for the x1800XT based on what >>consumers<< think.

1. ill pat whoever on the back i please
2. i dident pat them on the back, i actually think they are a bunch of frickin idiots right now
3. yes its the consumer BUT at $750 compared to the $550-600 i as a consumer dont see them as competition, i guess we could all say its opinons then

[revenant]

Well GTX 512 is a refresh that took nvidia 5 months to tweak it after the gtx 256....
And it s a limited edition,no?
Of course if ATI cannot have an 1800 xt "refresh" soon my argument is moot lol

very moot. it matters what is out now... and not "if they make..." ..plus the fact that you (avg consumer) can't even get the x1800XT master cards now kind of sucks... but oh well...

EDIT: wait - did the x1000 master cards come out just now? did I miss something? hrm... and double amen to ex2cib!!!

[DilTech]

Word is january at the earliest for X1000 master cards... at the earliest.

[brandinb]

wtf does it matter which card is agains this card or that card lol. its about performance per dollar and none of the cards match up exactly so it really doesnt matter. now a evga versus bfg 7800 card well then you can compare and say they match up and see who has more card for the dollar but these are different cards so it just matters which card is better for the price.

and who cares about unreleased graphics cards or what graphics compares to what graphics. did you guys even read the article linked to on anadtech????? the ati mobo will have 44 pci-e lanes on one mobo!!!! thats a true dual 16x mobo and also it will have hi-def audio which is awesome for gaming!!!! also the mobo will oc like hell!!!! doing htt of 300x5 wtf thats crazy!!! haha ill have to get me one of those motherboards they look like they will dominate unless nvidia can make a new chipset to commpete

[craig588]

That's an incredibly biased "review". It's more just them taking about how fantastic it is to get paid to talk about stuff.

ATI was roundly criticized for the inability of X850XT Crossfire to run at resolutions above 1600x1200, even though most end-users are not actually able to run at higher resolutions with today's most common 19" and 20" flat-panel displays.
100$ gets you a rebadged GDM 500 that can do 20x15 at 75Hz. If you can afford 2 good cards you can afford a monitor like that.

[perkam]

i would look at performance and then price. Not everyone has that outlook. Most of the consumers you speak of WILL look at price before they at the difference in performance.

Perkam

[brandinb]

That's an incredibly biased "review". It's more just them taking about how fantastic it is to get paid to talk about stuff.


100$ gets you a rebadged GDM 500 that can do 20x15 at 75Hz. If you can afford 2 good cards you can afford a monitor like that.

qft craig

this is what ive been saying about crossfire the whole time

im really glad the got it fixed for the x1800 crossfire thats awesome

my monitor was 99 dollars and does 1600x1200@ 85hz and 2015x1536@75hz so yeah its affordable just gotta buy used or rebadged

[speed bump]

Crossfire in my opinion is a trick to convince tier one manufactuers to use ATI chipsets,it has supposedly been done since June yet you can barely use it in November.

Hmm can anyone say marketing ploy also remember how great the r480 was going to be, the crossfire chipset was going to be , and now supposedly the r580. Seriously If you ignore the fact that it runs crossfire what has ATI got going for them, one board The DFI RDX200 with two fairly nice features one the ability to run 4 ram dimms 1t and being second being optimized for 2x1gb of ram which is nice for gamers.

Other than that ATI should consider changing the name to ATMIA missfire.

[drunkenmaster]

okay for one thing, in the uk the x1800xt wasx horribly overpriced for 2 weeks while overclockers.co.uk did there usual and claimed they would be first to get stock, they'd get most of the stock so buy from them. they had them at £470, i bought my x1800xt, sitting in my computer right now, for £340. the same price you can pick up a 256 gtx for here. the 512 gtx's are £520. they are not in the same price bracket, only a few shops killing customers by appearing to have stock and charging more are making them appear to be similar prices.

find a good store and you won't be ripped off.

nvidia themselves have said the 512 gtx will be a VERy limited part, they have increased price on purpose to basically keep it in stock by stopping most people buying it. its called a marketing ploy and its working. it sold out completely in the uk and so isn't in stock everywhere anymore.

the x1800xt pe will be VERY easy to release and should be around VERY quickly because, anyone with a x1800xt can tell you, core and mem both overclock very very very well.

ati has been telling manu's to push out higher clocked x1800xt's at the moment, not pe's, in the same way xfx have slightly overclocked cards, thats my understanding, the x1800xt pe is another beast which will most likely perform very closely to the 512 gtx and if ati have brains, will price it under it by $50 at least.

x1800xt i can find in stock in hundreds of places for the "cheaper" prices so anyone that can't find one isn't looking hard enough.

yes crossfire isn't going as planned, though you can crossfire a bunch of other cards, the delay in x1800 crossfire would appear to be down to the "upgraded" extra chip that now doesn't limit crossfire resolutions to 1600x1200 as it does on the lower end crossfire boards. would we prefer another delay and crossfire to get a chance to work right, or rush out limited at a low res. they made the hard, but right choice and held off. good for them.

their r480 chipset seems pretty damned sweet if you ask me too, ide performance isn't crap like on the nf4, sata and all hdd stuff on nf4 seems iffy at best. i switched one system directly from nf3 to nf4 board and could feel the difference in hdd accessing, its bugged chipset and i haven't ever loved any of my nf4 boards. running raid in all my systems now as i hated the crappy performance. sounds like msi are getting their board out next month, as are abit maybe, asus and gigabyte.

they are new to chipsets, and crossfire, i'd rather have stuff appear late with great products to follow and lessons learnt, than rushing out crap hardware, not learning anything and continuing to offer crap products in the future.

once crossfire is in full swing then the next new cards/boards should all be out with less issues and faster. remember ati have gone from very little chipset making and mainly just gfx, to dividing the company, working insanely hard on drivers, opengl, console gfx core producing, and adding crossfire to all segments of the market, getting r520 out and they've been working on r580 aswell. nvidia, have strapped extra pipes onto old architechture, not done much new in motherboards for a while, and their console gfx core is all but the same as the desktop core. they've basically had g70 to work on and not a thing else.

oh, and something i didn't realise, it seems to be very contrained shipments of the uli southbridge chipsets that has delayed the other manu's crossfire boards shipping, not ati supply issues as a lotta people assumed.