So does anyone use these daily?

[Gimmpy224]

If yes how much power does it suck up?

And would it require a ton of maintainence to run it day to day?

[craig588]

I guess if you wanted to, but how much benching are you really going to be doing? I normally can get most of it done in a weekend or two, then I try something else.

My electric bill is never over 100$ a month and I run alot of computers and compressors when I'm using them. I don't ever run compressors 24/7 and computers very rarely.

If you don't want to change anything than you don't need to do anything, but if you're going to be testing a few CPUs than there's probably about 15 minutes of insulation matinence for each swap. If you want to change gasses there's probably about an hour or two of downtime for the evacuation and tuning.

[jinu117]

24/7 sometimes. Most units should only suck up 220-260watt total from cooling while constantly running. Energy efficient ones may only suck up 130-150watt.. :)

[njkid32]

I only run phase (for now) but I shut it down every night and run it all day long. My electric bills didnt go up one bit since I got my mach and I live in Arizona where electric is very expensive.

[bachus_anonym]

My custom SS (1/3HP) made by Chilly1 back in March is doing about 12hrs/day of work; consumes 280W under load 1.76v/3280Mhz/SD3700+; it did not require any maintenance yet. Proper insulation is a key ;)

[Gimmpy224]

well im a gamer :) but i also like to oc

so im wanting something that will give me some awesome temps but will allow me to play on my comp everyday :-D


Do you have to turn on the ss when you turn on your comp or is there a way to get them to start up and shutdown at the same time with some sort of relay?

edit::::

and how did yall get your blocks? ^_^

[star882]

I have worked on a quad Britney "server" with custom phase change that runs 24/7 most of the time. It is usually busy simulating science (mostly electrical and folding@home).
Do you have to turn on the ss when you turn on your comp or is there a way to get them to start up and shutdown at the same time with some sort of relay?
I believe that most systems intercept the enable or power OK line of the PSU. The server I described earlier actually has a Jessica Simpson micro intercepting the control lines. I recall that it starts the compressor when the enable line from the motherboard is grounded, switches on the PSU a few seconds after the compressor starts, and sends a power OK signal when the evaporators cool down to operating temperature.

[Gimmpy224]

So, If I like forget to turn on the compressor and such or vise versa would my comp just totaly fry?

And where do i get all that that you just described

[star882]

And where do i get all that that you just described
How fancy do you want it? The simplest way to implement it uses a large relay/triac to switch the compressor and a small relay/transistor to interrupt the PSU enable line. The large relay should turn on when the enable line from the motherboard is grounded and the small relay should turn on when a sensor on the evaporator senses that it got to operating temperature.

[Gimmpy224]

wow lol, that makes sense but im not sure how to get them to do that, but right now im about to go out in my garage and see what hp the compressor is, I couldnt find it last night but im about to pull it out.

[Gimmpy224]

hm, i cant see anything except this on the serial tag:


TBF17PC-27B2 and the rest is torn off i think.

google time


no luck >_<

But my grandpa owns a metal factory place and can get me hookups pretty easily ^_^ but my dad says that energy costs 300$ a month here in tx and he dosnt want to pay anymore 0.o so if this stuff sucks energy then i may just have to sitck with a regular w/c setup :(

[jinu117]

Well pay your due to his electric bill. If you don't want to do that I see no reason why your father doesn't want to be part of it.

[star882]

but my dad says that energy costs 300$ a month here in tx and he dosnt want to pay anymore 0.o so if this stuff sucks energy then i may just have to sitck with a regular w/c setup
The good news is, it'll be winter soon enough and just say that the system will warm your room.

[Gimmpy224]

lol yea, but it dosnt suck THAT much electricity does it?

Also, I could have this and w/c setup for the same rig coulding i?
Since they are two totaly different loops?

And, where would I get a block to use for my cpu? like something in http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/index.php?i=713&s=12 that howto, and does anyone cool their gpu with these?

[star882]

Also, I could have this and w/c setup for the same rig coulding i?
Since they are two totaly different loops?
Yes, but you'll have to manually change the block if you're using direct die phase change. If you're using a waterchiller, you'll only need valves to switch between the heat exchanger and radiator.

[Gimmpy224]

now that last one sounds pretty awesome, cause then if i went that route i could go buy a storm and all that and have that running and build up a water chiller.

lol but i want a sub zero setup 0.o get it nice a way below 0 :D

hm, star, do you have a phase change? maybe i could ask you some questions about it ^_^

[jinu117]

#1 Storm does horribly on chiller setup. Unless you have mega powerful pump with tubings that can handle pressure well, it just won't play nice with high visciousity liquid used in the chiller loop. Funny enough maze design seems to work best so far.
#2 Well you think 200-300W is nothing really? It will show on the bill however marginal. It might be only $20 difference a month but it is difference non the less. Just tell you old man that this is how much energy it uses and consult with him. If you have problem with $20 a month, sub zero cooling is not the way to go IMHO. You will burn even more money on burnt hardware, etc down the line than other coolings as you will start pushing hardware further out in the zone.
Not trying to be meanie here or what not but trying to give you the perspective based on what I went through as well as many others I know.
For any phasechangers really, I usually recommend having at least one identical backup motherboard in hand. Preferably cheap line of spare CPU and memory would be helpful to... Not saying it will happen but you save money in general by not trying to get the stuff from local shop or pay a lot for next day delivery, etc down the line.

[Gimmpy224]

yea, im not sure, i may just go w/c and do a sub 0 as a little side project as time permits, and then just hook it up to one of our spare comps and see how it performs.

Im really just wanting to push my cpu, but i see what you mean about the limits.

I guess im just wanting to make a sub 0 chiller to do it and see how low i can get it to go lol.

[jinu117]

yea, im not sure, i may just go w/c and do a sub 0 as a little side project as time permits, and then just hook it up to one of our spare comps and see how it performs.

Im really just wanting to push my cpu, but i see what you mean about the limits.

I guess im just wanting to make a sub 0 chiller to do it and see how low i can get it to go lol.

That is the spirit :) Just don't expect to it to be cheap and prepare yourself for worst case scenario :) Save up for the journey ;)

[Gimmpy224]

I just wont use it on my comp :D i couldnt care less if it kills one of the spares ^_^

but thatd be awesome playing bf2 and having my cpu at -30c lol

put an LCD in my cd bays and show the world!

[star882]

hm, star, do you have a phase change? maybe i could ask you some questions about it ^_^
Yes, a 4 ton air chiller (central A/C). It's not being used right now, since nature at this time can provide the same temperatures for basically free. I had some professionals install that.
On a much, much smaller scale, I have a laptop that uses passive phase change technology. I also have a few other phase change systems around the house, although the two I've mentioned are the only ones that cool electronic equipment.

As for direct die, I don't own one but I've helped work on one. It's the server that I mentioned earlier. I helped design some of the electronics and ideas that went into it. But one thing's for certain: that machine is simply a monster in terms of speed. Therefore, the admins installed folding@home on that machine to put the otherwise unused clock cycles to (eventually) saving lives by curing certain diseases.

[Gimmpy224]

hm, ^_^ a just cause

i dunno still, like i said ealier i think im going to go w/c and make a sub 0 on the side as a fun project :D then if i get "ballsy" enough ill put it into my comp and run it for day to day :D since it dosnt sound like it will give me a million dollar elec bill.

[Cr@sh_D1n3r]

Yes and I don't know if you know but a chiller does not have to run all the time. You can build a reservoir and put a probe thermostat type in the liquid and at certain temp the compressor will start and cool it down. The first thing I've built was a chiller and I remember freezing the whole water in only a fews mins then the compressor would not run for a while :) If you are smart enough, you could even put the condensing unit outside of you room so you won't even hear the compressor running! Keeping in mind that you can chill everything in the computer, you could get really nice o/c on your video card too. Now if you want to play safe and be on the "cool" side, get a reservoir, fill it with dielectric liquid (such as mineral oil) and put the WHOLE rig ( minus hdd cdroms...) in it and chill the oil! Purpose of this is simply to make 100% sure that no condensation will build up on anything :D And what a show-off rig!! haha!

[Gimmpy224]

so run the rig while its submersed?

[Gimmpy224]

and im still kinda unsure of where to go to learn what everything does in a phase change setup 0.o, idlike to know all the parts and what does what before I dive in, or is it a hands on learning task?

[the_new_guy]

this is the best place to learn, read the guides by lord arce

and search there are many tools and part list threads

[Gimmpy224]

alright :)

ill browse through later and read around, right now i need to get back to workin on my project thats due in 4 hours lol.


EDIT::::


did any of you just jump stright from air to phase change?
Or did you go air, w/c then phase change?

And would anyone recomend a phase change setup for my gaming/every day rig?
This is myonly comp, and I use it for atleast 6 hours a day but rarely run it for more than 16 ish.

[epion2985]

I got a question on a related note. I am pondering switching to phase change as well but one comment above made me a it uncomfortable so I wanted to ask.

I am spending alot of money on my computer, currently waiting for the M2 socket motherboards and dual core FX's, hopefully by that time the 512mb video cards will be out, ati will have crossfire working smooth and I can spend $1500 on a nice dual crossfire setup.

More to the point what is the system falier rate? Someone mentioned above haivng to spend lots of money on blown hardware, but if you set your phase change up well, oc, and leave it alone it should be alright. New prossesors seem to do a good job of turning off if the temperatures get to high etc. so should be be to bad, right?

[wdrzal]

How often does your fridge break down? how many years has it run trouble free?

A well designed rig built following the correct assembly practices should do as well.

[BlueAqua]

I just recently went from water to phase change and I love it so far. I wanted to build one myself but I didn't want to dump a bunch of money into supplies and frustration so I asked Chilly1 if he'd make one for me and he did. His unit is very impressive and I have no complaints at all, very well made and I'm so glad I went with his. I will still use watercooling to cool my video cards, chipset and harddrives like I did before but just direct die phase change for the cpu, which I think it the best combination. The unit does put out some heat and I'll see what my electric bill looks like soon, but it doesn't seem too bad nor is it very loud.

I can sit all day at -44C loaded and not worry a bit. Chilly1 included great insulating materials and an excellent hold down system. He has put a lot of time into this and knows what he's doing. I'm just one satisfied customer.

[Gimmpy224]

how much did it cost you? and you got any pics ^_^?

And I just wanted to add that my main issue right now is wether to go w/c or straight to phase change.
I havnt built either of them before, but if I go w/c I was going to go all out on it ( mcp655, storm, heatercore instead of a PA, etc ) and if I went that route then I would probably build a ss as a side project like I said.
I just cant wait to get rid of this air and get into something a little more interesting, just not sure which route to go lol.

[jinu117]

Geez... I hope I didn't make it sound too ominous above. Phasechange doesn't kill hardware as long as well insulated (lots of reading and practice will get you to know when it is good insulation and when not). The real problem is the user who looks at negative temp and go, hmmm shoving 1.8v on this venice isn't going to be problem kind of thing :) Which is what you end up doing when you want that last 50mhz out of it, etc. (no no venice I saw liked 1.8v over say 1.7v really though :P)
Something like water or air, this kind of voltage will scare most users to even try and just back down. In phasechange though scale changes and your "thermal senses" just kind of disappear which could lead to disasters like I've had in my early time of phasechange usage. (or peltier :P)
Also keep in mind running things very highly overclocked prolonged have much more stress on mobo components than it would without phase. Reason why my #1 suggestion was to have backup mobo handy... I've had blown chips before in mobo on prolonged extremely high voltage overclock before even with fan blowing air on components. Backup CPU is there more for condensation issues you might have without proper insulation, memory -> just because most of us use DFI NF4... lol.

[epion2985]

Geez... I hope I didn't make it sound too ominous above. Phasechange doesn't kill hardware as long as well insulated (lots of reading and practice will get you to know when it is good insulation and when not). The real problem is the user who looks at negative temp and go, hmmm shoving 1.8v on this venice isn't going to be problem kind of thing :) Which is what you end up doing when you want that last 50mhz out of it, etc. (no no venice I saw liked 1.8v over say 1.7v really though :P)
Something like water or air, this kind of voltage will scare most users to even try and just back down. In phasechange though scale changes and your "thermal senses" just kind of disappear which could lead to disasters like I've had in my early time of phasechange usage. (or peltier :P)
Also keep in mind running things very highly overclocked prolonged have much more stress on mobo components than it would without phase. Reason why my #1 suggestion was to have backup mobo handy... I've had blown chips before in mobo on prolonged extremely high voltage overclock before even with fan blowing air on components. Backup CPU is there more for condensation issues you might have without proper insulation, memory -> just because most of us use DFI NF4... lol.

Yeah, I know its as reliable as a fridge if done right but since you being who you are made suh a comment I just had to inquier a bit deeper. :)

[ben805]

I 2nd what Jinu said, you need some spare parts to swap things around for trouble-shooting purposes IF and WHEN sh1t hit the fan, with the phase change you'll definitely push the envelop much further. Overclocking is risky business so...DO expect some fried hardware!! ;)

[Cr@sh_D1n3r]

Ya just run the whole rig submersed! Best condensation free method imo :)But I'm warning you, you get addicted really fast to it ;) When you get used to play with such low temps, you play with high cpu clocks and you'll never want to get back to stock or little water cooling o/cs :)

[Gimmpy224]

lol i may not spend money on w/c then. but still lol, im not sure like i said if i want to go w/c on mine and make the ss as a side project and then put it onto our test comps or if i wanna go straight to my rig with it, but im pretty sure itll go to mine ^_^ thatd be awesome having an lcd displaying the temps at -40 ish lol.
If I had never looked into this type stuff like I did a few months ago Id be like OMG NO WAY!

and yea, i probably wouldnt o/c MY rig to much, id push it some but not a lot lol.

but as for the spares ^_^ ill just take some of our really old parts from like 10 years ago and see how far i can push those lol.

Or get on ebay and find the cheapest stuff to make me a little cheapo testing rig.



We need ways to cool the mobo :-P.



EDIT::::

And is there a how to on making a submersed rig? cause that would be awesome but a b1tch to work on lol.


And yea after the hardware killing post I was like, well, this stuff is out of the question lol.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

gimmpy, you shoulda just asked me this stuff on AIM saturday or whenever that was ;)
no, there's no how-to on making a submersed rig AFAIK, but it's not hard; you just need a dielectric liquid (ie flourinert), a tub, and put your mobo in the tub and fill it up! :)
but just get on aim and start asking me, i probably didn't give you enough info on this stuff ;)

[Gimmpy224]

lol, yea I meant to but I was having some issues yesterday with hw and building a rig for a friend.

^_^ trust me youll be flooded today :D


I just came across the sticky with the guides and Im going to study all of them ^_^.

[Gimmpy224]

wellllllllllllllllllllll

I just found a way to decide between w/c and ss.

If I cant find people with SS tools that I can use around here then im going w/c lol.

[jinu117]

Buy few beers to your local HVAC guy hehe... :) And borrow his tools at minmal charge on his off day :P

[Gimmpy224]

<<<< 17 lol ^_^ still, maybe I can talk him in to it with some money under the table :-D

or knock him out, grab the tools and run

[the_new_guy]

lol,
just talk to them,

[Gimmpy224]

think they would really help me out?

[SoF]

My custom SS (1/3HP) made by Chilly1 back in March is doing about 12hrs/day of work; consumes 280W under load 1.76v/3280Mhz/SD3700+; it did not require any maintenance yet. Proper insulation is a key ;)

that's it - insulation as much as possible :D
the longest run ever was ~10h of prime...no whater, nothing...

[Gimmpy224]

yea, well ill know today cause i plan to ask everyone I can think of if they have the tools i need, right now im just looking for temps at like ~-30 full load.

And if I have to ill run down every HVAC guy in town begging to use their tools.

[the_new_guy]

act really innocent, and like a child who is not over smart but knows what he is doing

[Gimmpy224]

lol ill bring in my dog and a pistol and threaten if he dosnt let me use them ill kill the dog.

Yea, ill go check after school today and see if they will be nice enough to let me even if they have to do it or something, just as long as I dont have to buy them.