esdee's 3 stage cascade. [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

View Full Version : esdee's 3 stage cascade.

esdee

10-26-2005, 01:27 AM

(to be honest i just copy-pasted my thread from teampuss.com)

Ok let's start with some pics of parts

The accumulators (2 in total)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG8944.jpg

The oil seperators (2 in total)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG8948.jpg

The first stage EBM fan (690CFM)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9809.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9782.jpg

some filters i used (the danfoss ones are rated down to -40*C)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9592.jpg

my danfoss TXV TS2 1/2 ton
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9618.jpg

my HX with it's flare connections modded to brazed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG0191.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG0193.jpg

and the flex with the 3rd stage subcooler and CPEV
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG0311.jpg

and final part my pressure gauges
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9767.jpg

Ok now this is the cascades body
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/cascadebody.jpg

here is the electrics box with the 2nd and 3rd stage electrics
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9467.jpg

now some detailed pics of my HXs, by far these were the worst parts to make, took me very long time!!!

here is the 1st->2nd stage HX
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9870.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG0090.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9868.jpg

and here is the 2nd->3rd stage HX
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9898.jpg

and now some pics of how everything are connected inside the cascade body
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG9851.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/CIMG0029.jpg
.

after a lot of work it became like this

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/GoriLLakoS/111.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/GoriLLakoS/222.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/GoriLLakoS/333.jpg
.

to get some descent temps i had to insulate the HX's

so it became like this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/insul-1.jpg

i cutted the foam to get a better shape
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/newinsul.jpg

so it's time to start firing up the stages, to stages up and running so far

TXV behaviour was outstanding!!! TS2 with the 01 orifice, i bough 00 and 0X too for later testing

so ... after i was sure there where NO LEAKS i charged with dirty-ethylane.i say dirty because i used totally 5 (yes five) r507/r410 bottles to transfer ethylane (in vapor) from out high pressure bottle which has 18.3Kg in total.

i had already charged the first stage with r507
so i charged the second stage with ethylane and ... *)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/-102.jpg

the shimaden thermometer has a probe 5cm after the CPEV

the CHY thermometer shows the temp 5cm after the TXV in this pic

in this pic the CHY has the probe at the output of the HX

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/eedse/1stout.jpg

really happy about the temps :D especially 1st stages temps, can't imagine what will happen when i swith to r410!

enjoy :D

esdee

10-26-2005, 01:35 AM

some more specs are

some specs are

1st stage
samsung 1hp rotory (R22) danfoss 1/2 TXV 01 orifice
2.1lt expansion tank (modded receiver)

1-2 stage HX 6.5m 1/2" with 2 x 3/16" inside

2nd stage
CAJ2432Z (r404/r507) FACH PZR CPEV
1/2ton oil sep with float
1/2ton accumulator
3.7lt expansion tank (modded receiver)

2-3 stage HX 5.5m 1/2" with 2 x 3/16" inside

3rd stage
CAE2424Z (r404/r507) FACH PZR CPEV + 1.2m 1mm cap tube
1/2ton oil sep with float
1/2ton accumulator
2.1lt expansion tank (modded receiver)

evap by my friend eleven www.eleven-blocks.com
and waiting for his new evap rev!

the_new_guy

10-26-2005, 02:03 AM

amazing, -102 is on which stage?2nd?
what gas will you use in 3rd?

esdee

10-26-2005, 02:11 AM

amazing, -102 is on which stage?2nd?
what gas will you use in 3rd?

thanks :D

-102 is on the 2nd stage, approx 5cm after the CPEV
and im still a bit undercharged, because of the slappy way i transfered the ethylane to my place

for the time being r1150 will be the gas for the 3rd stage, ill try to get some R14 thou

FrOsT_frt

10-26-2005, 02:36 AM

Good job m8 keep them coming :toast:

MaxxxRacer

10-26-2005, 02:37 AM

wow.. looks like you got alot of headroom in that thing with the 3rd stage and the recharging/regassing.

gotta love the insulation job.. that spray stuff sure makes things easier.

red_dragon

10-26-2005, 02:42 AM

dannng good stuff man. :) btw Maxx, cute bird :P

SewerSide

10-26-2005, 03:04 AM

Amazing cascade you have there!
Cant wait to see some results with proper gas :toast:

Jack

10-26-2005, 03:57 AM

How much noise does the 3 stage make? :D

It looks incredible!

runmc

10-26-2005, 04:00 AM

wdrzal

10-26-2005, 05:51 AM

After looking at the first post ,half the joints look right as to color and the way they flowed and half look like you used the wrong rod, they are brass-ee looking with poor flow. there is caping and pin holes. To me those don't look like a joint I would put under high pressure.

runmc

10-26-2005, 01:29 PM

Walt has made a good point. Some of these brazed joints don't look very secure.
Let me warn you that when you add the third stage load you will see an increase in pressure. You'll be lucky if your first and second stage can handle the load. My guess would be that your first and second pressure will skyrocket. More than likely you will have to shut both stages down to avoid a high pressure repture. Your expansion tank and receiver will make nice pipe bombs.
I hope you have a pressure relief valves and pressure cutoff switch incorporated in this system.
For safety purposes it would be a good idea to rebraze some of your not so good joints. Your going to see pressures of 250psi and higher. Hopefully you will be watching closely and shut down before you see 350+ psi
In a build such as this, workmanship and all other factors need to be of high standards.
I'm not raging you, this is just a word of caution to all who are reading and contimplating a build such as this. ;)

RussC

10-26-2005, 02:29 PM

Wow, Im mesmerized, that is a rig and a half....I would never even attempt somthing like that at this point.

RussC

esdee

10-28-2005, 08:10 AM

Great results for the first and second stage. Hopefully you can get -120c with third stage and ethylene.
I would suggest subcooling your third stage discharge before it reaches the oil seperator. By doing this you can add some r290 which will condense before the oil seperator and carry the oil back to the compressor with it. (This is theory) The problem Fugger-Chilly- and I had with our three stages was oil traveling past the oil seperator and freezing in the cpev (metering device) ;)

during the test runs i made i didn't add any r290, will do it on both the ethylane stages as soon as i make the final charge, no such problems for the time beeing.
btw my passive desuperheaters are before the oil seperators, i have to make sure they are enough for the r290 to condense there

After looking at the first post ,half the joints look right as to color and the way they flowed and half look like you used the wrong rod, they are brass-ee looking with poor flow. there is caping and pin holes. To me those don't look like a joint I would put under high pressure.

thanks for that advice, i know i used some wrong rods at the begining, but then i added some brazing rods, they seem to work right for know, tested up to 350PSI with no leaks, hope they don't be problem cause ill have to replace the whole HXs part

Walt has made a good point. Some of these brazed joints don't look very secure.
Let me warn you that when you add the third stage load you will see an increase in pressure. You'll be lucky if your first and second stage can handle the load. My guess would be that your first and second pressure will skyrocket. More than likely you will have to shut both stages down to avoid a high pressure repture. Your expansion tank and receiver will make nice pipe bombs.
I hope you have a pressure relief valves and pressure cutoff switch incorporated in this system.
For safety purposes it would be a good idea to rebraze some of your not so good joints. Your going to see pressures of 250psi and higher. Hopefully you will be watching closely and shut down before you see 350+ psi
In a build such as this, workmanship and all other factors need to be of high standards.
I'm not raging you, this is just a word of caution to all who are reading and contimplating a build such as this. ;)

thanks runmc for spending the time to notice these faults.
pressure reliefe valves and pressure cut off switches are in plan to be installed, i just wanted to test the joints at high pressures. as for those joints in the HXs i just hope they can handle pressure as they are re-enforced with brazing rods

thanks guyz for making these notes, i would be worried if there was no advice :)

Dragoon42

10-28-2005, 08:28 AM

seeing someone actually take it to -102c and still not be done is insane. I just started reading about phase change, and this thing blows me away. What temps are you expecting to reach with the 3rd stage?

wdrzal

10-28-2005, 08:45 AM

Can you post a pic of the rod you used, or the chemical make up ,I think you used a brass rod from the pics. Starting with the wrong rod makes good joints impossible.

I don't know your experience but from my point of view someone building a 3 stage rig should have all ready masted brazing a joint properly.

As to pressure shutoffs and reliefs being "in the plan" they should have been in the design and all ready installed before testing began. situations can occure when pressure will start building and you can't stop it no matter what you do. A relief valve is the only way to prevent a rupture.

Keep safety the #1 priority and don't over reach.

Sneil

10-28-2005, 09:23 AM

As to pressure shutoffs and reliefs being "in the plan" they should have been in the design and all ready installed before testing began.
yea wow, ive always assumed pressure reliefs were an absolute must in just 2 stagers. Seems just a little scairy not having them in a three stager. :confused:
not that im one to give advice, but it seems verry illogical not to have em.. i can imagine just a blowout in a joint being a pretty scairy/dangerous experience

but i must say, good work! looks amaizing :clap: did you bend the hx copper by hand/around a cylinder or did you use some benders