View Full Version : Need help for an old school 3D King!
Hi fellas,
I decided to build a rig for my parents and bought a Voodoo5 5500 AGP. After lots of locking problems loading games and rendering problems at Direct3D test (cube flashing, stripes), I decided to take a look at the card and to my surprise there was a cap yanked from the PCB :mad: I feel really stupid from not taking a closer look at the card when I bought it from this guy and I´m sure he was aware of the problem because he stated he was the only owner of the card, and there are signs that someone tried to solder the thing back into place :slapass:
Now I need to replace this cap but I´m not sure If I will find the exactly same one. This is what is write on the top of the cap (from top to bottom):
10
16s
0I4 (or could be "o" not sure)
what those numbers mean? Caps usually states "XXXuF" and "XV" right? I have a dead 9500 that have one cap phisicaly identical to it and it´s written:
AV
47
6.3
Can I use a cap with a similar value? If so what those values would be? Any help will be greatly appreciated fellas.
Best regards,
KODE.
Just took a picture of the missing cap on my Voodoo5:
persivore
10-25-2005, 12:02 PM
Its probably a 10uf, 16v capacitor. If you use a different capacitor, make sure that its a low ESR type.
Thanks for the reply persivore,
What is a low ESR type cap? I know very very little of electronic, sorry.
I talked to the guys at work and they told me I could replace it with a 10uF 50v cap they have there. After some time with the solder station I managed to solder it into place (picture attached), but this didn´t solve the problem :( time to send the Voodoo back... or there´s something else I should try?
Best regards,
KODE.
SikaRippa
10-25-2005, 01:20 PM
Thanks for the reply persivore,
What is a low ESR type cap? I know very very little of electronic, sorry.
I talked to the guys at work and they told me I could replace it with a 10uF 50v cap they have there. After some time with the solder station I managed to solder it into place (picture attached), but this didn´t solve the problem :( time to send the Voodoo back... or there´s something else I should try?
Best regards,
KODE.
ESR means 'Equivalent series resistance' or in practice how good (ideal) is capacitor. In many cases very low ESR is required, so the capacitor can provide current (charge) fast enough when the load is varying rapidly.
However, I wonder the original was not VERY low ESR type capacitor and therefore the one (standard capacitor) should be sufficient or at least help a little. Did you see ANY improvements after adding capacitor ?
Hi SikaRippa,
Thanks for explanation, living and learning ;)
As for improvement, I must say it did nothing :(. Let me explain the problem a little better: 2D applications runs fine, but 3D apps simply won´t run.
One guy (ps47) suggested me to set the card to single chip instead the two mounted on the voodoo5 5500. Running single chip 3D apps runs fine no glitches, locks, no flashing at Direct3D test. Could any other component be toasted due to the lack of this cap on the circuit?
SikaRippa
10-26-2005, 01:10 PM
Hi SikaRippa,
Thanks for explanation, living and learning ;)
As for improvement, I must say it did nothing :(. Let me explain the problem a little better: 2D applications runs fine, but 3D apps simply won´t run.
One guy (ps47) suggested me to set the card to single chip instead the two mounted on the voodoo5 5500. Running single chip 3D apps runs fine no glitches, locks, no flashing at directdraw test. Could any other component be toasted due to the lack of this cap on the circuit?
Seems to be quite clear, that there is a problem with the another chip.. It is hard (impossible) to say WHY or which component destroyed at first. Anyway, it is very likely the missing capacitor is not the only problem, and maybe the card can not be repaired (easily).
Seems to be quite clear, that there is a problem with the another chip.. It is hard (impossible) to say WHY or which component destroyed at first. Anyway, it is very likely the missing capacitor is not the only problem, and maybe the card can not be repaired (easily).
Hi SikaRippa,
At a last effort I took the whole day cleaning and inspecting the card. To make things even worse I just called the guy wich I bought it from and he blamed me for the problem, pretty obvious isn´t it?
I just took a screenie of my little crippled rig and Direct3D test. As a long shot what components would you recommend me to inspect? Please m8, I don´t wanna give up that easy :)
Best regards,
KODE.
SikaRippa
10-27-2005, 11:56 AM
Hi SikaRippa,
At a last effort I took the whole day cleaning and inspecting the card. To make things even worse I just called the guy wich I bought it from and he blamed me for the problem, pretty obvious isn´t it?
I just took a screenie of my little crippled rig and Direct3D test. As a long shot what components would you recommend me to inspect? Please m8, I don´t wanna give up that easy :)
Best regards,
KODE.
Cool installation :up:
--
Yeah, it is obvious in almost every case that people just blaming others.. He did not EVER noticed missing capacitor OR had any problems at all ????
So, with that card it is possible to disable one core ? Have you already tested it, and what was result (both broken) ?
In some cases faulty VGA cord have made some graphical problems, but if 2D is ok I do not believe that can be the reason.
BTW, is the capacitor next to missing one running hot, and how about the one you added ? Can be tested e.g. carefully with finger tip. Hot (>50 C) means too high ripple current.
Cool installation :up:
--
Yeah, it is obvious in almost every case that people just blaming others.. He did not EVER noticed missing capacitor OR had any problems at all ????
So, with that card it is possible to disable one core ? Have you already tested it, and what was result (both broken) ?
In some cases faulty VGA cord have made some graphical problems, but if 2D is ok I do not believe that can be the reason.
BTW, is the capacitor next to missing one running hot, and how about the one you added ? Can be tested e.g. carefully with finger tip. Hot (>50 C) means too high ripple current.
Yeah m8, I'm sure he was aware of the problem, but I can't expect nothing less from a person like him...
As for disabling one of the cores, you do it via software (voodootools) under the anti-alias (DirectX and OpenGL) tab there's 4 options: single-chip, fastest performance, 2x and 4x. When I set it to single-chip the card runs OK but I don't know wich one of them is disabled. I guess is the right one due to lower temperature on the other side of the PCB :confused:
I checked the temps on the cap I replaced and the cap next to it and they are slightly warm like all the others on the PCB.
SikaRippa
10-28-2005, 08:07 AM
Yeah m8, I'm sure he was aware of the problem, but I can't expect nothing less from a person like him...
As for disabling one of the cores, you do it via software (voodootools) under the anti-alias (DirectX and OpenGL) tab there's 4 options: single-chip, fastest performance, 2x and 4x. When I set it to single-chip the card runs OK but I don't know wich one of them is disabled. I guess is the right one due to lower temperature on the other side of the PCB :confused:
I checked the temps on the cap I replaced and the cap next to it and they are slightly warm like all the others on the PCB.
Since the card is working perfect with one GPU, the problem can be a fault in that 'secondary' GPU. Also insufficient cooling could cause such problems, do you think both are having good contact with cooler ? When having some capacitors hotter than the others, it might indicate problem in that node. Is it possible to test with different (better) capacitor ? That kind of SMD capacitors can be found from old MOBO's, VGA-cards or even CD-drives...
Since the card is working perfect with one GPU, the problem can be a fault in that 'secondary' GPU. Also insufficient cooling could cause such problems, do you think both are having good contact with cooler ? When having some capacitors hotter than the others, it might indicate problem in that node. Is it possible to test with different (better) capacitor ? That kind of SMD capacitors can be found from old MOBO's, VGA-cards or even CD-drives...
The heatsink/fan mounted on the chips are really crap and if you look between the chip (VSA-100) and the HSF you can notice a 1mm thick white glue just on the center of the chip (just like if you put a drop of glue on the centre of the chip and press the heatsink there) leaving a lot of area not making contact with the Heatsink.
What caps are you refering to m8? sorry if I'm being dumb here.
SikaRippa
10-28-2005, 08:32 AM
The heatsink/fan mounted on the chips are really crap and if you look between the chip (VSA-100) and the HSF you can notice a 1mm thick white glue just on the center of the chip (just like if you put a drop of glue on the centre of the chip and press the heatsink there) leaving a lot of area not making contact with the Heatsink.
What caps are you refering to m8? sorry if I'm being dumb here.
Do you have extra thermal paste ? Why not put some more...
I mean to replace the one you soldered with a SMD (surface mount) capacitor, IF the one you added is not good as the original (?)
Do you have extra thermal paste ? Why not put some more...
I mean to replace the one you soldered with a SMD (surface mount) capacitor, IF the one you added is not good as the original (?)
I'll try the freezer trick to remove the glued heatsink, worth a try. I think we have some SMD caps here at work, just have to verify the values and I'll give it a go.
Thanks SikaRippa ;)
Well some progress here, I left the card 24h submerged in Isop. alcohol and now I can load and "play" the games but the image is all messed up with flashing polygons all over the screen... but hey! that's some progress!!! :toast: lol
I just managed to take the heatsink off the VSA-100 chips and the glue looks pretty burned... anyway I'm leaving the card another 24h under Isop. alcohol and hope for the best. I think she's trying to come back to life :D
KODE.
SikaRippa
11-03-2005, 11:54 AM
Well some progress here, I left the card 24h submerged in Isop. alcohol and now I can load and "play" the games but the image is all messed up with flashing polygons all over the screen... but hey! that's some progress!!! :toast: lol
I just managed to take the heatsink off the VSA-100 chips and the glue looks pretty burned... anyway I'm leaving the card another 24h under Isop. alcohol and hope for the best. I think she's trying to come back to life :D
KODE.
You did ..what ?? Put the WHOLE card into isopropanol for a day to clean old thermal paste away ?? Is the paste so burn, you can not 'scratch' it away ?
Anaway, if you get better performance the trick was usefull :) However, there are some risks with that kind of cleaning i.e. alcohol might diffuse into capacitors and you must be absolutely sure everything fully dried before 'power on'.
IvanAndreevich
11-03-2005, 06:56 PM
LOL man just try a cap and don't waste alcohol. You can try pretty much any cap size there, it might just work. It is unlikely that it would burn because of the wrong size IMO
You did ..what ?? Put the WHOLE card into isopropanol for a day to clean old thermal paste away ?? Is the paste so burn, you can not 'scratch' it away ?
Anaway, if you get better performance the trick was usefull :) However, there are some risks with that kind of cleaning i.e. alcohol might diffuse into capacitors and you must be absolutely sure everything fully dried before 'power on'.
HI m8,
No, I left the card into isopropyl alcohol just to clean some "rust" and oxidation I found on the card, nothing to do with the heatsink removal :) btw I dryed the card carefully with a hair dryer, but thanks for the advice ;)
I also carefully cleaned between the VSA100 chip and the PCB with a very thin wire, passing all the way to the other side. I will test the card in a couple of hours as I just put the heatsinks back with some thermal paste.
Regards,
KODE.
LOL man just try a cap and don't waste alcohol. You can try pretty much any cap size there, it might just work. It is unlikely that it would burn because of the wrong size IMO
Thanks for the tips m8 I really appreciate, but did you read the WHOLE thread?
Regards,
KODE.
SikaRippa
11-04-2005, 01:36 PM
HI m8,
No, I left the card into isopropyl alcohol just to clean some "rust" and oxidation I found on the card, nothing to do with the heatsink removal :) btw I dryed the card carefully with a hair dryer, but thanks for the advice ;)
I also carefully cleaned between the VSA100 chip and the PCB with a very thin wire, passing all the way to the other side. I will test the card in a couple of hours as I just put the heatsinks back with some thermal paste.
Regards,
KODE.
Just wondering WHAT is that 'rust' ?? Burn paste ? In theory that stuff COULD add shorts/low resistive paths between nodes = problems. Do you think you have/had bridges (with rusk) between METALLIZATION ? Having any stuff top of insulating material (green/red..) is not a problem.
I wonder you had too few paste top of THAT core = having hard/burn paste. This caused some (permanent?) faults to core, especially if the core is not working even with new paste.