Is antifreeze safe??

[eBoy0]

As i found out not too long ago, windshield washing liquid is toxic and shouldn't be used in chillers, so i wonder is antifreeze the same? Or is it safe?? I'll be deluting it w/ denatured alcohol + hydrx
Also is hydrx safe??

[eBoy0]

Well thanks to Saratoga i found out;

Most of that windshield wiper stuff is methanol based. Thats wood alcohol. Generally people go blind from drinking it, but if you inhale enough of it, you can go blind that way too. Its not super deadly, but it does degenerate nerve cells, and there are pretty strict safety standards in place for dealing with it:

http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

Quote:
Toxic : danger of very serious
irreversible effects through inhalation, in contact
with skin and if swallowed.


Might want to check if that methanol or ethanol (IIRC both are used, but the stuff I've seen had methanol). If it is methanol, it wouldn't hurt to set the thing in a well ventilated area until you're sure its safe, or even to switch to ethanol if you have a serious leaking problem. Remember the vapor is quite volitile, so it will escape unless its airtight.

[eBoy0]

Bump seeing as how it's a serious matter.

[Stewie007]

Propylene Glycol is an excellent choice. Its good down to -50F.. I'd favor running it at around -20 to -30F to avoid too much viscosity.

It is safe, non toxic, and if ingested, won't harm you.

Ethylene glycol is fine too. Keep it in a closed system though, its vapors can be harmful if they are able to collect. Its less viscous at low temperatures than Propylene Glycol.

Both must be diluted for maximum efficiency, at least that's what they reccommend.

But please, don't drink either of them. :p

[Stewie007]

By the way, antifreeze solutions in coolant are always glycol based. Ethylene Glycol is the most popular. But Propylene Glycol is safer and really no less effective.

[eBoy0]

Thanks for the info guys, the DE-ICER i buy under ingredients it says; WATER(7732-18-5), METHYL ALCOHOL(67-56-1), PROPYLENE GLYCOL(57-55-6).
methyl= not good MUST get a safer solution to replace this.

So Antifreeze+denatured alcohol is safe?

[afireinside]

Seal the res and they're all safe...

[eBoy0]

I was planning on doing this... it's not like it's NOT sealed, it is a cooler but i reconsidered because i'll be wasting my time un-sealing it over and over since i'm always fiddling around w/ it.

[angra]

I went with propylene glycol, which is sold in the form of non-toxic antifreeze at car stores.

I don't have pets or children, so accidental ingestion is not an issue. no vapors from this stuff.

I've been happy with it.

[Stewie007]

Accidental ingestion of propylene glycol is not dangerous. It might make your stomach a bit upset but thats it.

Of course, if you... take in alot of it, I can't vouch for the results :p

[Frambosie]

Well, as most people have already said, Propylene Glycol is generally a safe substance that really wount harm you, that is in small quantities. I was at work today (im a full-time EMT in the fire district my school is located and perdium in the Bronx, NY) and we have these nifty books on the ambulance (mandated by NYS law) which are material safety data sheets...basically a sheet for every chemical provided by its distributor/creator that gives a host of information on reactivity and health concerns, etc. I dug one up online for Propylene Glycol.



http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/propyleneglycol.pdf

I also found an article distributed by the argricultural marketing service here in the US which lays out everything you can imagine about "PG."


http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NationalList/TAPReviews/PropyleneGlycol.pdf

Follwoing a link from that PDF, you can look at a government data sheet that lists some potential exposure hazards, the following is from this link:


http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts96.html

How can ethylene glycol and propylene glycol affect my health?

Eating or drinking very large amounts of ethylene glycol can result in death, while large amounts can result in nausea, convulsions, slurred speech, disorientation, and heart and kidney problems.

Female animals that ate large amounts of ethylene glycol had babies with birth defects, while male animals had reduced sperm counts. However, these effects were seen at very high levels and would not be expected in people exposed to lower levels at hazardous waste sites.

Ethylene glycol affects the body's chemistry by increasing the amount of acid, resulting in metabolic problems. Similar to ethylene glycol, propylene glycol increases the amount of acid in the body. However, larger amounts of propylene glycol are needed to cause this effect.

So, what i get out of that is that overexposure can lead to a form of acidosis, which essentially is a elivation in ketone bodies/loss of bicarbonate/increase in acid content (CO2, etc.) within the blood. The effects could be devistating to the kidnesy and liver as well as other organ systems that are sensitive to blood pH levels.

I hope this helped you a little bit, but please dont be scared, just be smart about your use and respect the chemical. Wear gloves/respirator if you so choose, eye protection as well. If you take these simple precautions you will have little to worry about :toast:

[eBoy0]

Well, as most people have already said, Propylene Glycol is generally a safe substance that really wount harm you, that is in small quantities. I was at work today (im a full-time EMT in the fire district my school is located and perdium in the Bronx, NY) and we have these nifty books on the ambulance (mandated by NYS law) which are material safety data sheets...basically a sheet for every chemical provided by its distributor/creator that gives a host of information on reactivity and health concerns, etc. I dug one up online for Propylene Glycol.



http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/propyleneglycol.pdf

I also found an article distributed by the argricultural marketing service here in the US which lays out everything you can imagine about "PG."


http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NationalList/TAPReviews/PropyleneGlycol.pdf

Follwoing a link from that PDF, you can look at a government data sheet that lists some potential exposure hazards, the following is from this link:


http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts96.html

How can ethylene glycol and propylene glycol affect my health?

Eating or drinking very large amounts of ethylene glycol can result in death, while large amounts can result in nausea, convulsions, slurred speech, disorientation, and heart and kidney problems.

Female animals that ate large amounts of ethylene glycol had babies with birth defects, while male animals had reduced sperm counts. However, these effects were seen at very high levels and would not be expected in people exposed to lower levels at hazardous waste sites.

Ethylene glycol affects the body's chemistry by increasing the amount of acid, resulting in metabolic problems. Similar to ethylene glycol, propylene glycol increases the amount of acid in the body. However, larger amounts of propylene glycol are needed to cause this effect.

So, what i get out of that is that overexposure can lead to a form of acidosis, which essentially is a elivation in ketone bodies/loss of bicarbonate/increase in acid content (CO2, etc.) within the blood. The effects could be devistating to the kidnesy and liver as well as other organ systems that are sensitive to blood pH levels.

I hope this helped you a little bit, but please dont be scared, just be smart about your use and respect the chemical. Wear gloves/respirator if you so choose, eye protection as well. If you take these simple precautions you will have little to worry about :toast:


Wow lots of useful info there man... by large quanties does that mean like a 2-3 gallon cooler full? :) I'll take this all into consideration.

[Frambosie]

Has the federal government made recommendations to protect human health?

The EPA has set a drinking water guideline for ethylene glycol of 7,000 micrograms (7,000 µg/L) in a liter of water for an adult.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as "generally recognized as safe," which means that it is acceptable for use in flavorings, drugs, and cosmetics, and as a direct food additive.

The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) recommends a maximum level of 127 milligrams of ethylene glycol per cubic meter of air (127 mg/m³) for a 15-minute exposure.

I would use the above as your guide. Basically, you shouldnt be using PG to mix coctails :D Like i said before, glovels (basic latex/ntrile will suit) eye protection/glasses if you wear them, and a basic particulate mask (OSHA approved HEPA repirator if you are concerned about vapor would offer the maximum protection) and you should be free of any harm. Also, i would keep any house pets out of the room during and a few hours after...remember to open the window and maybe have a fan blowing out of the house, if your doing it inside. This is all probably over the top, but i would rather do too much than too little and get hurt. Good luck! :toast: