Has the r520 impressed you?

[Pinnacle]

We've all seen what it can do, now just answer if it impressed you?

yes or no :toast:

[n00b 0f l337]

Yes, I feal its just fine and the time delay for all the improvements was worth it. Also means new cards from ati will be quite a bit better as well from this point on.

[One_Hertz]

not at all...

Considering the time it took that performance is quite bad imo

[eBoy0]

Nope, compared to the time delay and how little it outperforms the GTX i'm not impressed.

[k0nsl]

I'm not impressed either. Although the hype, incredible delays and the hefty price tag is very impressive, I write that with a touch of sarcasm.

-k0nsl

[deception``]

I voted no.

The performance of the series is very good, but not enough to justify the delays compared to the 7800 series.

Furthermore, ATI's best (the XT) is STILL unavailable, in addition to ATI-based motherboards (though they are coming soon).

Anyhow, ATI's recent generation would have been much more attractive had these items been available several months ago.

deception``

[fagin]

Nope, available 6 months ago yes. Now? Too late.

[MeltedDuron]

nope, ATi suck, they should adopt a new slogan, maybe 'Yesterdays technology, today' for instace...
Too little too late guys :stick:, on a positive note, it can only get better :)

[Disposibleteen]

nope, ATi suck, they should adopt a new slogan, maybe 'Yesterdays technology, today' for instace...
Too little too late guys :stick:, on a positive note, it can only get better :)
Melted> you should really learn to research and get the facts before you go spewing out your misinformed opinions. ATI's latest R520 core uses a more addvanced Fab process (90nm as opposed to 110nm) and ATI uses a 512b internal bus width as oppsed to Nvidia's 256b bus. Sure Nvidia has more Pixel pipelines but as shown by the performance numbers that obviously doesnt matter a terrible amount.

This does not in fact make me a fan of ATI, i think Nvidia did the better job this time around, if ATI had been able to get this product to market right along with Nvidia it would have been impressive.

[[XC] leviathan18]

ati is using 512bits inside the core between the core and mem is still 256 like nvidia....

90nm process yeah nice thing to have waiting 5 months for crossfire and this card just for a little bump against the 7800gtx is not nice... they had 5 month to bring something that blow nvidia and they just showed just something a little bit better :S sad imo

[Plague_oc]

i think ATI shouldve made something actually BETTER than the competition instead of just even or less

[rcofell]

i think ATI shouldve made something actually BETTER than the competition instead of just even or less
Well, maybe you should have told ATI that 3 years ago when they began development on r520. :stick:

It takes a long time to develop these products(years as you can see), so alot of speculation goes into designing them. Things such as what process it will be built on, performance of the competition, economic feasibility of the design, etc. What seems like a killer card now may end up being nothing too exciting when it is released. Spending time to fix significant bugs doesn't help either with the timeframe. These are big projects and take a long time(and resources) to be made possible.

I was sort of disappointed this latest round too, but still impressed with the numerous new features. Hopefully the next round will play out better.

[nn_step]

Being a UNIX user, I am not impressed by a MicroSoft only card.. Tell them to make some Drivers..
Hell right now I am only going to buy a couple x1800xts for folding

[DilTech]

Being a UNIX user, I am not impressed by a MicroSoft only card.. Tell them to make some Drivers..
Hell right now I am only going to buy a couple x1800xts for folding


Too bad gpu's and their heatsinks aren't meant for 24/7 usage at max load/power... I couldn't even fanthom how quick those cards will die being stressed by folding on them!

I'd strongly think about it before you buy those cards strictly to fold on...

[nn_step]

Already did, I plan on water cooling them...

[metro.cl]

it's a nice card, but i expected more so i voted no

[Major_A]

It's not 512 bit memory, in fact they are using 256 bit memory also. What they do have is the 512 bit programmable bus ring. This is what they are able to manipulate to get better Doom 3 scores. http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=3668
Overall the programmable nature of the new memory controller in the majority of ATI's new graphics chips means that over time and with enough analysis, per-application changes can be made to the memory controller to optimise memory access by any given application at any number of resolutions, allowing ATI to extract the most out of their hardware.
I voted no because I thought this card was touted as the end all, be all card. On top of this ATi decided to leave out an option on the card so their little "Shader Model 3.0 Done Right" slogan is incorrect. I like ATi cards but lately their business practices have really grown thin.

[DilTech]

Their slogan should be "Shader Model 3.0, Git Er Done!"

[Tim]

In general not impressed, but two things I do like is HighQ AF, which looks pretty awesome, and the overall % fps drop when you enable AA and AF...other then that,....nah I don't think so, too little too late...and if nVidia decides to put out another card right before the XT get's available...it could get really nasty for ATI...

BUT regardless of impression....ATI lost it's face bigtime....I can't count how many people went nVidia...and R520 doesn't do anything to overcome that...not to mention Mid November availability....and Crossfire being the joke that it is.... :(

[Behemoth]

I think most people are disappointed with the performance. If it would have been released around the same time as the 7800GTX, it would have been fine.

[Magnj]

nope. Too little too late. However I'm kinda intrested in the Folding Capabilities

[FUGGER]

After the BS with cancel of NV47 and release of G70 I am not too happy with Nvstratagy on fooling customers.

The cards overclock like mad, the head room for memory speed is insane. The XL has 1Ghz memory stock and will ramp beyond 1400Mhz without votlage mod.

We should expect to see 1Ghz cores as well once the 864Mhz limitation has been lifted.

Programmable voltages means no more volt modding the card unless you want more volts than the presets will allow. The top setting is more than enough for most everyone except those reaching for 1Ghz core.

I hope to see master cards soon now that we know they run on 955 chipset.

So for us Intel based guys the R520 is the best option going for single card hands down.

As far as the OC tool, I believe one should be ready very soon.

[Arkangyl]

hael no, the R520 is just the R480 on a 90nm process with better ram.

all the AA and AF stuff seems driver related, to me it's just a clock speed ramp. and it's wicked late; if by no other standard it's utter failure as a marketable item has disillusioned me; factor in a VERY shakey Crossfire launch [the MC issue and no mobos out ATM] along with the ATI SB issues; sorry, but I'm avoiding ATI this round I think. Their only winners have been the X800XL, X800 GTO(2) and the X1600 XT.

[cadaveca]

Well, the memory subsystem had capabilities that i have been personally hoping for a while, but i was greatly hoping of the same from the core.

It's not quite R4xx, but it's so close that it disappoints.

Top-notch hardware...1 year warranty?

Craptacular marketing campaign. All the negative hype about the exec's hyping projections because they were going to sell shares aside(i said that was crap from the start, because they annouced the sale before they hyped the next gen...everyone should have been aware. what a waste of good money on a empty accusation), ATI should have been quicker to step on false rumours.

Haven't seen a single card for sale in Canada. WTF?

Plain and simple, instead of playing the duck this time around, ATI should have stepped up to the plate, and openly admitted and discussed the problems they had in production. An informed customer is a happy customer, even if things are bad. honesty wins over all.


To be honest, I've never been more disappointed in a company. As far as i see it, some people should be fired, or move to other departments. The acts of lower employees only reflects on the performance of the management...thier performance at managing...or more simply put, doing thier job.


How long has it been since we have seen something truly new in the industry?

[FUGGER]

Nvidia has shafted the Intel guys bad, expect no sympathy for the joke called C19.

R520 is a new animal on a new process. God forbid you give it more than a few hours to mature.

Delays? ATI did not pull a bait and switch on us.

ATI now holds the performance lead once again and its time for Nvidia to re-re-release the 6800U err I mean 7800GTX with better specs.

[Major_A]

ATI now holds the performance lead once again.
In what exclusively, 3DMark? I for one could give one crap less about that worthless benchmark.

[nfm]

Yes, the clocks look good but where that efficiency per instrucion per clock. Why does ati has to clock so high their gpus to match nvidia, this reminds of prescott over nortwood, extra clockspeed was used to hide negative effects of stupid long 31 pipes when their real efficiency started at around 5.0Ghz+ where intel never got there :rofl:, where's REAL 24 pipelines? New lineup isn't optimized aswell as previous :slapass: we want efficient instrucion per clock not crazy high frequencies. I'm very dissatisfied of new lineup.

[DilTech]

ATI now holds the performance lead once again.


With what card? You certainly cannot buy the XT right now, and the GTX is the same price as the XL, and whoops it up and down the field.

[cadaveca]

Nvidia has shafted the Intel guys bad, expect no sympathy for the joke called C19.

R520 is a new animal on a new process. God forbid you give it more than a few hours to mature.

Delays? ATI did not pull a bait and switch on us.

ATI now holds the performance lead once again and its time for Nvidia to re-re-release the 6800U err I mean 7800GTX with better specs.

Um, maybe in the US, and maybe for your esteemed hands ATI is the fastest, and has not been delayed, but me and the 3 million people that live in the 500km circle around me cannot buy these cards.

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Huh. Funny how ATI is canadian, yet no cards are here.... :stick: not one. no x1300, no x1800xl. no crossfire cards either.

[metro.cl]

In SA no one is goin to be able to buy a x1800xt at least until christmas, thats not nice, if you claim ati has de lead again nvidia could say the same thing with just a 7800u in a lab, but thats not the idea.

I still like that ati si fighting but i cant see a come back until r600 because r580 wont be much more (i got from Paul (cant remember his last name) at ati GM for LA or SA that it would give a performance improovement like the 9700 to the 9800 series, thats good but not enough.

[jjcom]

The R520 to me looks like a great series of cards. Someone pointed out something, I don't quite remember the quote exactly, but along the lines of "Nvidia may have a card that outperforms ATI at the same clock and it doesn't overclock bad, but ATI has a card that can clock to hell and back." Nvidia's 24pipes allow the card to perform well, but ATI has a card with 16 pipes that can clock higher. Yes it was late, but it's here now and it performs great. That 512bit Ringbus is new, the 7800GTX just seems like a upgrade of the 6800U, while the R520 seems to have some of the R480 in it, but it has new features as well.

[Major_A]

I am going to assume that nVidia won't have the 90nm process troubles that ATi had. Their mobility 7800 is based on the 90nm core. So I am willing to bet their next card is going to be based on the 90nm process with no respins of the silicone.

If nVidia didn't have 24 pipes in the 7800 GTX and it was only 16 I'm sure they could run at the same frequencies as the ATi cards. More pipes is more power which equals more heat. Some how nVidia after much criticism of dual slot cooling has gone back to a single slot design for their entire line. ATi was quick to point that out with the 5800 Ultra, but look where they've been for 2 generations now.

I'm sure this has been posted somewhere. But to reiterate the point, according to DriverHeaven nVidia has the more efficient pipe.
http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/efficiency/

[DilTech]

The PS3 RSX(g70) is also on the 90nm process.

[nn_step]

Yes, the clocks look good but where that efficiency per instrucion per clock. Why does ati has to clock so high their gpus to match nvidia, this reminds of prescott over nortwood, extra clockspeed was used to hide negative effects of stupid long 31 pipes when their real efficiency started at around 5.0Ghz+ where intel never got there :rofl:, where's REAL 24 pipelines? New lineup isn't optimized aswell as previous :slapass: we want efficient instrucion per clock not crazy high frequencies. I'm very dissatisfied of new lineup.
Completely agree, work done per clock is more important than clock speed. hence a 2ghz AMD can compete with a 3 Ghz Intel and stay cooler while doing it...

[Pinnacle]

Great answers guys. So its a "NO"

[cadaveca]

Well i tihnk these cards bring some interesting things with them, but it's kinda hard to not feel a bit betrayed by ATi in the current situation.

nVidia annouced the 7800GTX, and 3 days later they were available here locally. I counted 43 cards on the shelves in various stores. They all sold out very quickly, but the stock was refreshed in less than a week.

I've got the cash right now to buy a couple cards. But i cannot. As much as ATI can hype these cards, until they are truly available, they are simply just vaporware.

My current system, with nVidia GTX SLi, is so craptacular that i cannot install it in a case without it overheating the chipset. nVidia called these cards cool-running, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Sure, the GPU's don't dump alot of heat, but the PWM area of the card DOES, and in a very large way. I have had this system for a few months now, and still cannot not call it stable when in a case, even @ stock.

With that in mind, i want nothing more than to replace my current video solution, with something that performs as well, or better. Unfortunately, i cannot.

ATI's stance on this release has been nothing but a lie to it's customers. these cards have not been released, and here we are 2 weeks after the release.

I don't approve of lying, regardless of the motives. In my books there is no such thing as a "white lie". This makes ATI dishonest, in my books, and makes me very leery of trusting them with providing the things they claim, when thier current track record shows they cannot.

Had ATI been honest about release, as well as delays( i have a copy of the page saying that crossfire cards and motherboards would be out in september, yet this has still yet to happen)....maybe consumers would feel differently.

Can you trust a company that openly lies to you? Would you give them your hard-earned dollars?



It's hard to deal with for me, really. I'm one of the biggest ATI fanboys...and have been for years. But i canont approve of the actions they have taken. I wouldn't run my company that way, so i cannot support them running thier's that way either.

[zabomb4163]

for the longest time i was an ATI fan. bought the 7500, 8500, and 9800. Then the nvidia 6800 series came along. ATI over charged for it and i switched nvidia. looks like this generation goes to nvidia again.

and the crossfire motherboards....WTF. 240$ for a motherboard PLUS a mastercard. who are they kidding??

(to anyone who disputes the 240$ statement....link me a 120-140$ crossfire board and ill order it today and post a screenshot of the order to prove it. finding an SLI board in that price range is easy. been that way for awhile)

[Sentential]

Nvidia has shafted the Intel guys bad, expect no sympathy for the joke called C19.
I second that. Atleast ATi supports Xfire on a real motherboard.

[n00b 0f l337]

I third yet. Seems a poll like this doesnt work cause its all favoritism.

[perkam]

Impressed ? No...Do I want one ? :D :D :D :rotf:

Self Explanatory ;)

Perkam

[Tim]

Nvidia has shafted the Intel guys bad, expect no sympathy for the joke called C19.

R520 is a new animal on a new process. God forbid you give it more than a few hours to mature.

Delays? ATI did not pull a bait and switch on us.

ATI now holds the performance lead once again and its time for Nvidia to re-re-release the 6800U err I mean 7800GTX with better specs.

I didn't know Moderators could have such brand loyalty...seriously...LMAO. :rolleyes:

[perkam]

I didn't know Moderators could have such brand loyalty...seriously...LMAO.

It's a response to the continuing ATI bashing here at XS, Tim ;) I mean, points such as the XL costs as much as a GTX...ridiculous...show me where you can get a GTX for $399 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102612

Perkam

[Pinnacle]

I third yet. Seems a poll like this doesnt work cause its all favoritism.

Fanboism or favoritism always comes into play when any discussion is started about Ati and Nvidia.

ITs a simple yes or no dont make this too complicated on yourself.

[Pinnacle]

It's a response to the continuing ATI bashing here at XS, Tim ;) I mean, points such as the XL costs as much as a GTX...ridiculous...show me where you can get a GTX for $399 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102612

Perkam


Why are you comparing the GTX to the XL?? compare the GTX to the XT

7800GT
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=323299

1800XL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102612

[perkam]

Why are you comparing the GTX to the XL?? compare the GTX to the XT

It's been said countless times that the XL is the same price as the GTX, hence ppl should buy the GTX...Also, there are $399 7800GTs too on Newegg.

Not to mention once you begin overclocking, a 7800GT cant catch an XL ;)

Perkam

[FUGGER]

It may look like brand loyalty but I have run both products for extended periods of time to know the differences. I am a gamer and average 50+ hours per week.

Are you telling me that I do not know what card I like better when I have both?? I have C19, I have SLI, I have single card on 955x.

On single card vs card 7800GTX and X1800XL in my machine, the X1800XL can easily overpower the GTX.

Bare in mind I am not running stock, and the website you are viewing is not "stocksystems.org"

I wonder if SM3 will be considered a cheat in BF2

[DilTech]

I've seen things the other way fugger, I've had hands on time with both cards, and the gtx quite simply smoked the xl fully overclocked.

Bear in mind, I don't call it a system if it can't be put in a case, so D.I./Cascade/LN2/ whateever else you wish to put on it doesn't count to me. If it's not 24/7 stable, it doesn't even count in my book.

[perkam]

xl fully overclocked.

Only sampsa has that ability right now. I doubt anyone else has a non-blocked oc tool for the x18k cards.

Perkam

[Major_A]

but the PWM area of the card DOES, and in a very large way
Check this (http://stasisthermal.com/nv7800.html) out. They made the IceStorm NV7800PRC to help with that situation. I don't know if it would help you out though.

[jjcom]

I've seen things the other way fugger, I've had hands on time with both cards, and the gtx quite simply smoked the xl fully overclocked.

Bear in mind, I don't call it a system if it can't be put in a case, so D.I./Cascade/LN2/ whateever else you wish to put on it doesn't count to me. If it's not 24/7 stable, it doesn't even count in my book.

That's really going to depend on the system the card was tested in and what your clocks were. Drivers, etc, there are many different factors.

[FUGGER]

My gamer currently has the 3.73EE @ 5.3Ghz 380FSB 1:1 3-3-3-6 24/7 on a Vapo (not DI/LN2/Csacade)

The VC has a Zalman that is slightly better than the stock heatsink and may not be as good as the XT sink.

My system is in a case with all the normal goodies you would expect in a daily driver.

My system is a complete gaming rig

[Korpse]

Yes

[MeltedDuron]

lil late, but i'm not a nVidiot either, 3DFX 4eva!!!

[zabomb4163]

FUGGER, while i respect your abilities to max out every piece of hardware and extent of knowledge you have of everything computer related....can you 100% say you dont have any bias towards ATI?

[Major_A]

What does it matter if he does?

[FUGGER]

I have my favorites and so do you, leave it at that. Both comanies treat me good.

Use AMD for example: Sure the FX was faster at single thread stuff when it was the only application. Are you guys benifitting from X2 at all since it is a bit slower yet handles multiple applications than the FX? why do you guys even want to buy one since FX is so fast and all? I love my Intel and hyperthreading for the past few years despite it being a bit slower than FX in select applications. I guess I am Intel bias huh? because I prefer one over the other is my choice even though you may think the FX is faster than any P4.

Reducing image quality to gain frame rate is marketing that has your attention. If all you care about is FPS and doom3 is getting 1.1fps higher on one card than another makes the clear winner, you dont need my advice.

[cadaveca]

You are right in so many ways, Fugger, but still there are not alot of cards for sale, and still none in my city..a city of a million people. Mail-order from the US just doesn't work...i already have over $5000 tied up in hardware "stuck at the border", thanks to customs officials, or whatever...anyway...shipping from the states relates to a minimum 6-week addition to delivery time. If i placed an order now, it more than likely would not clear customs before Christmas.

So, ATI, based here in my home country, does not sell products in it's own country...instead they sell them to you. The cards could be 10x faster than a gtx and it still wouldn't matter...just like nVidia has not met YOUR needs, Fugger, ATI does not meet mine, and many others here...in fact it's only people who have ties with ATI here that have cards...:stick:...sounds like we are in the same boat.

We both know that Intel SLi is slow becasue the memory controller resides on the chipset...like really. Your anger should be directed @ Intel, and not nVidia for that one, and you know it.

[metro.cl]

Only sampsa has that ability right now. I doubt anyone else has a non-blocked oc tool for the x18k cards.

Perkam


there are other that have that tool mate :D

[Dark-Master]

r520 impressed me only on 3DMark05 :D

if say about usage ............... no feeling different of g70/r520 (that's me , i dunno other)


...............................

yeah but i think it's good if yall buy r520xt ........... really nice benchmark score , and same feeling of usage as g70(and more sharppening of image[little]) ............... only one word to say "GREAT" , but i already got g70 ............. so i have to wait for next generation(or not) :D:D:D:D:D

-----------------------

then yeah , how about to wait for G73 soon(heard from ma fren) or G80 next year :confused:


or buy r520 xt now !!!!!!

[Kabouter]

The R520 HAS impressed me, even though I am an 7800GTX owner and do not regret my buying decision in the slightest, ATi has done it again if you ask me. The R520 is innovative and promises a golden age for ATi in the high-end market. They also have a better implementation of SM3.0 than nVidia does (especially where it concerns dynamic branching the X1800XT truly crushes the 7800GTX) and aside from that ATi has Avivo as well.

And as we are on Xtremesystems.org I can not not mention the amazing overclocking capabilities of this card. No more need for voltmods (unless you plan to do some truly sick OCing) and the first card to break the 1GHz/1GHz barrier and also scoring well over 12000 points in 3D Mark 2005 (although it's just a benchmark, it does tell you something when OCing a card can gain you 33% in performance)

There is however one major criticism I have on the cards: the fact they guzzle power like there's no tomorrow. ATi needs to seriously do something about their performance/power consumption ratio when at stock speeds the competitor comes relatively close in performance while using a great deal less power.

If I were going to buy a new card it would certainly be an X1800XT 512MB. However, I would not choose to go for an ATi crossfire motherboard. No native S-ATA"2" support is a disappointment. For me, the best AMD S939 motherboard out there is still the DFI Lanparty UT NF4 SLI-DR.

[Pisu87]

Yes it did, at least much more than G70.
I'm talking about its many architectural improvements and its new features, it's a totally different product from R480.
HDR+AA, better image quality and minor performance impact due to filters are enough for a serious gamer to choose R520.
While G70 comes with the same architecture of NV40 and has its optimized drivers, the Rx5xx family has still much to show, not to talk about the ring bus and dispatch processor programmability. I think R520 will benefit from this.
It's the last step before architectures with unified shaders, ATI has already had to do with the R500 for the XBOX360 and we can see some of its characteristics on Rx5xx.

[Kabouter]

Ah, just saw it on the net, ATi takes the performance crown in both Doom 3 and Quake 4 by a substantial margin thanks to a driver update.

[metro.cl]

today i played with a x1800xl runned same settings on 3dmark01 and got 4k less, i really didnt like the card, might be because of the worst drivers ever (i had overdrive and an ati tool that worked).

[terrordemon]

it might have impressed me if it came out at around the same time as the 7800's, but it's just too late, this technology has been around for too long and is too expensive to be impressed by it

and crossfire is not as powerful as SLI, and sli boards are easier to get and as far as ive seen better overall

[Turok]

Im impressed because:

1) Everyone thought the x1800 series would sv$% vs the 7800 series, but in the end the x1800 series beats the 7800 at eaven OpenGL (nVidia's specialty)

2) the x1800xt brakes the 1k/2k barier

3) ATi plays fair and makes a card faster and with better IQ, while nVidia increases performance but decreases IQ on their 7800. They probably dont want to fix their drivers, because it might have a hit in performance.



ATi's x1800xt is the best single card solution to date, but things could change when the 7800 GTX 512mb or 7800 Ultra release.
If I have to update to a SM3 card for UE3 games, I want a card that can give me the best performance and the best image quality wile I wait for the r600. If the 7800 GTX 512mb or 7800 Ultra beat the x1800xt, but remain with a low image quality, I would'nt buy anything until the next generation of cards or until the r600 releases.

[5-Clicks]

i'm impressed by the r520 too. quite frankly, i don't understand what isn't impressive. ATI had the innovation to improve 16 pipes and the whole architecture rather than just keep adding pipes...which is the predictable thing. reminds me of what AMD did back in the athlon XP days. in the end, ATI's innovation will put them ahead IMO.

[Axylone]

Because ATi redesigned their architecture, their cards will have more room for improvement, and they will be able to imrove the cards faster. So although r520 was 6 months late, ATi will have a distinct advantage when nVidia takes the time to overhaul their architecture. What do you think would happen if the next generation ATi card had 24 pipes?

I do agree that ATi blew the release, and I give nVidia credit for not producing vaporware that comes out 6 months lae and in scarce quantities.