My First Single Stage Phase Change

[laKewl]

I am new to the forum, but i have been reading them for a week or two.
i have a vary complex idea for my cooling system.
my gouls are

1. -25 to -35
2. 3 evaps one for my CPU and one for each of my GPU's
3. a Chilled water loop at -25
4. as quate and power eff as posable
5. must be all in one case (LANable)

CPU will be a AMD X2 3800 or a 4800 (depends how much money i can find hehe)
Mother board MSI K8N Neo4 SLR
GPU's 2x MSI 7800GTX

no the water loop i was thinking of running it thoure each of the evaps just befor it runs over to the memory around that evap and the Vregs and thoure a TEC chiller with two 437watt tecs

the tecs will be cooled by a 3rd water loop that will be first cooled by a rad, then to the sucksen line to be cooled ferther.

now for the compressed condens refrgrent i was thining of running it thoure the TEC block with the water as well to try and sub cool it a bit, remember the Phase chilled water will be running thoure that block as well, so i was thinking it should be able to remove some heat, then it will go to a acumalator and to a bus rail to to go to the cap tubes for each evap.

now for my q's
1. do you think this will work and meat my gouls?
2. what device should i use to contral the refrgirent for each evap?
3. how do i calculate cap tube langth for 2 or more evaps off one compresser?
4. what size of compresser do you think i should use? (i was thinking the SC12)

thanks for the input guys

i am on my way to work but when i get back ill draw a picture of the loop.

-laKewl

PS sorry for the spelling

[gclg2000]

i think your not ready and need to read more. I think all of that is unrealistic in a normal case.

[runmc]

I think your getting carried away with your expectations. ;)

[gclg2000]

2. what device should i use to contral the refrgirent for each evap?
3. how do i calculate cap tube langth for 2 or more evaps off one compresser?



You've yet to learn enough to start i feel.

[laKewl]

well first off i am building the case my self, its going to be a little bigger then a Antec 1000 Plus view about the same height but a little fater and longer likely.

and i know i need to read more but i am having truble locating the info short of spending 60-70 on a book.

if some of you could point me to a good webpage and a good book.
now back to my q's i know the cap tube is ment to regulate the flow but i wont CONTROL so i was thinking of a evap presher reg, i was thinking of using a TXV but i dont wont to have 3 of them around in side the case and i think the space between the video cards would be to small for them, i was also thinking of maybe using a servo valve on the sucksen side of each evap and use a custum computer contraler to monitor the temp of ech evap and change the valve.

-laKewl

PS Sorry for the spelling

[jinu117]

TXV from what I am hearing on single stage (hmmm cascade chiller anyone? :P) is not tuned for small loads we have... People have problem with it fluttering and not working as intended on system. I thought about Electronic one but not sure how responsive it is to load or how expensive it would be :P

[laKewl]

you i know thats why i was kinda leaning away from a TXV, and more to an evap presher reg, but i am having problems finding them for anything smaller then 3kW a bit big LOL need one for like 200watt and 2 for 130watt or so.
thats why i started thinking about vacume valves.

i am almost done the diagram for the chiller system ill post it when i am done

-laKewl

PS sorry for the spelling

[laKewl]

well here it is, my cooling system it shouldnt be all that hard to get small most of it will be all with in one 2" tube running up the back outside coner of the case



-laKewl

PS sorry for the spelling

[laKewl]

Well now that all of you can see my cooling loops, ill post my q's agine and hope that someone can help me sort them out.

i was thinking of using 6 Feet for of 0.028" Cap tube that gives me about 210Watts for the cpu. i am aming a bit high so i can thrutal it back with some kind of device

for the two gpu's i was thinking of 12 Feet of 0.028" cap tube for 120 watts each i am not 100% surten if this will work with 3 evaps thoue but i am sure you guys can help me with that, and i am not 100% surten if 120 watts for a 7800GTX is enuf, with its memory and evrything else

that give me a total of 450Watts to hold at -30 (give or take) so the Danfoss SC12CLX should be big enuf. The Danfoss datasheet states that at -30 it can move 497Watts (ASHRAE)/ -30 429Watts (EN 12900) both are with in my goul rang,

now for my reviezed q's,
1. the cap tube langth is it a ratio of resistens between the cap tubes or is it purly a function of pressher drop across the tube?
2. is the SC12CLX big enuf for 450Watts? or em i reading the tables increctly?
3. What device can i use to thrutal the Refretrent on all 3 evaps?

[jinu117]

Hmmm I am not certain but does compressor capacity include cooling itself or not? It's awfull lot of work compressor does usually. Most single stages draw about 230-260w while being used.

[MIN_Roadkill]

You better cancel any other plans you have for the next year with this project. That drawing completely lost me, do you plan on watercooling the blocks or direct die cooling the blocks or both? I have read alot of threads about phase change and even the experts have a hard time with multiple evaporators. I believe 3 would be a nightmare. If I were you, then I would change to a waterchiller project like I am making. If you do then make sure you get atleast a 1hp compressor and a txv with either an 00 or 0x orifice. You should figure on around a 500watt heat load.

[laKewl]

well the idea is to do direct die cooling, and use that too chill some water for things like the memory and VRegs and NB and HDD's.
i do know that more then one evap will be a pain but i feel it will be fun and the only way to meat my gouls and i have no life so time is no problem lol i have all winter the onyl things i do in the winter is work and play on my computer lol.

thats also the other resion i wont to use a suction contraller so i can set it up to keep temps right, and to simplife it a bit.

i have been thinking and i have two options to meat my gouls, that i think can meat my gouls.

option A.
Stay with my origanel design,
3 evaps and a tec subcooler and backup cooler to help hold the temp stable

option B.
one big evap on the CPU and chill the water there and cool the GPU's with that and a tec subcooler and water chiller.

i was thinking of going with the SC15 rather then the SC12 it seams to be more power eff at the temps and load i am shotting for

but i would much rather have 3 evaps then one big one, and a water chiller isnt what i am looking to build, i donno why, but its just not.

[\/icious]

only a sigle stage? What not go for 3?
Wow that pic is extremely confusing but i think ive got it figured out. You should have labeled the different lines as well so it would be easier to follow. In the pic you need to move you filter/dryer on the other side of the condensor and have the cap tube running from that. Also i would remove wchilling the water from the picture. In the picture your "sub coolers" are spots where the water flows over/around the suction line right? All that heat will be too much for your phase setup. You have 2 437 watt tecs, 4 waterblocks, 2 gpu evaps, and 1 cpu evap to cool with that one compressor from what your drawing looks like and there is just no way. i dont even thing a dedicated water chiller would handle 2 437watt tecs and 4 waterblocks. You need to be realistic or your going to set yourself up for disappointment and waste a lot of time and money. For a phase newbie a triple evap close to unrealistic enough so if you have your heart set on having one i would forget about the other things for now because you have a lot of work on your hand already. Once/if you build your triple, you can inspect its integrity to see if i can handle a water loop as well. Has chilly1 even made a triple yet?

[MutantToad]

So basically you want a 3 evap single stage, cooling CPU and 2 GPUs, with water running through them for other components? I don' think you want to bring your HDD's anywhere below ambient, I read somewhere that it could damage it.
My advice:
Learn more about phase change.
Lose the TEC subcoolers. It will add load to the compressor, and they and the PSU's needed for them will cost quite a large sum of money.
Build a cascade instead of a single stage. It will decrease your temps rather substantially.

What you want to do is very unrealistic. Sure, it is possible, but you will need a strong compressor, and WAY more knowledge.

[laKewl]

the tecs run on there own water colded loop they wont be phase colded, they are there for "backup" to help hold the system at tempter there will be a contraler made to kick them in if things fall behind the tacs will only run to cool water and the condensed r404a (i think thats what i am going with)
i am goign to make a new picture hehe,

[Dementor]

Ive read your post and saw your picture. I thinking your going too big for a first time. I love to think big, and I just started, but this I wouldnt even bother revising without the actual help of a pro. Just the load on the compressor itself... Hmmm... Honestly I think you should just either study up a bit more, build a phase or two yourself and find out how everything works, exactly! Then, if you still believe you can achieve what you just posted, then go ahead and give it a try. Also remember, we are here to help and not to criticize. This is a very big job.

[MutantToad]

This is a very big job.Couldn't agree more. It is pretty xtreme. I recommend that you first build a single stage first, then a cascade, then a "better" cascade, then your current idea. But that is only advice from someone who just knows theory...Lots of theory...Good luck on construction!

Edit: Damn, just realized that gclg was banned! Why? I don't want this to hijack the thread, but I've looked at his posts and none were really rulebreaking.

[laKewl]

this isnt a casecade, its a single stage 3 evap with water chiller and a "backup" TEC subcooler asmbaly thats waterer cold. i am doing a better layout pic, so theres less confuing.

i dont wont a casecase becase of the power bill hehe oo the tecs will neaver break 600watts total i am build a PWM system that will flip back and forth and chage a cap so there alwas running at 280watts continus at 100% i am going for the larg size of them more then the power and i have them.

and yes i know this is big but its the only way i can see all my gouls. and i am still looking for a good book,

i dont know why he got band i would think its becase of other things he has done i dont really see anything here other then none helpful info. *srugs :confused:

[laKewl]

well here is my new picture. hope its clear.

[\/icious]

well here is my new picture. hope its clear.

Well you going to need more than 1 pump if you want water to flow through 9 blocks and a rad at a faster pace than a trickle. Your also going to want more than one rad im willing to bet this thing will take more power than a 2 stage cascade.

[MeltedDuron]

wow, SC15?!?!? you'd need a half tone copeland scroll compressor if you want anything far below ambient on this thing, i will definitely watch this s if you can pull it off i'll be amazed, oh and follow everyone's advice, make a couple of smaller single stag/single evap units before trying this (you could blow yoursef up if you are inexperienced)

[laKewl]

there is two pumps,
on for cold water, one for hot water, and i am not worryed about water flow,
i have a 1048 for the cold water, and i am likely going to use its big bro for the hot water

the SC15CLX.2 can do 593 watts at -30 that should be big enuf
you must remember that its only cooling the CPU GPU, all the VR's and Memory NOTHING MORE and a little bit of subcooling on the hotwater side but i may remove that

so unless somthing makes way more heat then i am thinking this should be more then enuf

CPU: 200Watts
GPU: 120Watts*2
VR's 100Watts total for all
Memory: 75Watts For it all
NB: 50Watts
= 685Watts i am almost 100% serten that the VR's will not be 100Watts
at -25C the SC15 776 Watts so -27.5 if evrything is right wouldnt you think?

the two TEC's are there if the temp starts to reach a number like -26 they start to power up and try and hold the water at -28 or so so then they will help the compresser out be removing some heat and sunting it to the water cooling Rad

so the system at say -25 or so should have a total max heat load of 1000 watts or so that should be WAY more then whats needed

and i would like some input on heat output of the devices on the chilled side of things like the VR's i would REALLY hope 100Watts is hi for 4 sets of them (on for the CPU, Sys mem, GPU Mem/Core*2)
and memory how much heat do they make?

oo and i am going to build a small single stage single evap from an old frige if i can find one. :p:

oo and where do you guys get your Condensers from? :stick:

[GuGaCoSa]

You are just forgot you need to add 30 to 50% of heat to your numbers,this is called heat of compression,the heat compressor generate to compress the refrigerant.
Man,i started myself with a dual evap and captube,its very hard to tune it correctly,i would not recomend you to start with it,i would recomend get a condensor/evap with suction and captube from Chilly1 and make a small unit,itll be very very good for you to understand how it works and tune it perfectly before goind ahead with something more dificult

[laKewl]

isnt the condenser going to remove the heat of compression?
if not thats a good point lol, but from what i know and what ihave read, you compressit and that heats it you run it thoure the condenser that removes alot of the heat, if you get a big enuf one you can get it down to room temp so then it wouldnt mater how much heat it adds to the gas.
and from what i get the numbers from the data sheet are what the compresser can move in a test so that should have all of that taken into account.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

ok, my suggestion for you is if you really wanna cool all that...
a dedicated single-stage for the CPU.
a dual-head for the GPUs.
lose the chilled water completely; those components don't need anything more than a fan at most.
LANnable will not happen with what i mentioned or probably with what you mentioned.

[Comp-Freak]

This project is just to much. Not realistic imho. Start with "only" a single stage, that's difficult enough for the first time.