Recovery machine?

[jinu117]

I was browsing e-bay for recover machines and something just hit me.
Can the recovery machine be used for vacuuming small system as we are using?
I really don't see why not when it has capabilities to purge the recovery tank but maybe I am thinking way too out of spec. Units I am looking at are these:
http://www.tequipment.net/PromaxRG5410HP.asp
http://www.tequipment.net/PromaxRG5410A.asp
Of coures, price is no where near that high on e-bay (I wouldn't even dream of otherwise :P)
If it can do dual duty of Vacuum pump, that would be great. Oil-less I guess will help... :P

[Gray Mole]

Nope, the compressor won't pull deep enough to remove moisture from the system.

You need to use a Vac pump with those systems in addition.

Gray

[wdrzal]

Boy I wish they would, I even had a discussion with factory reps about designing a machine that used a 2 stage pump,you could split it so only 1 stage woud be used to recover and both stages to dehydrate. I think its not "finacilly" feesable, they would rather sell you 2 machines.

[jinu117]

Boy I wish they would, I even had a discussion with factory reps about designing a machine that used a 2 stage pump,you could split it so only 1 stage woud be used to recover and both stages to dehydrate. I think its not "finacilly" feesable, they would rather sell you 2 machines.

I guess so... I found product that does what I was looking for in single machine... but none are on e-bay... (was released this april I think... ahahah).
http://www.amprobe.com/cgi-bin/pdc/viewprod.cgi?pid=2072&tid=main_h&type=hvac
Pretty nifty, and one place I checked similar pricing as their own recovery machine (like 10% higher but we are talking retail price so actual cost might be substantially different).
For time being, I guess I am stuck with 2 machiens -_-; Well, at least I am not moving around... I guess :p

[wdrzal]

hmmm they stole my idea LOL I didn't see that unit.

[wdrzal]

that too heavy at 57 pounds, wonder what it cost?

[jinu117]

that too heavy at 57 pounds, wonder what it cost?
Almost 1K at this place...
http://www.ars-net.com/images/Temporary/04-05%20Provax.pdf

Almost $1k. Now, I would think that is MSRP like all the amprobe recovery machines are about $800-900 in MSRP (which never is the case it seems... brand new units seem to go $350-500 range. So it might be marginally more costly than just recovery machine for someone who got access to shops around. For me, it's gotta be e-bay used euipment lol.

[wdrzal]

the last 4 recovey machines and 2 VACUUM PUMPS i PURCHASED ON EBAY

[jinu117]

Heh... I can see why after retail prices.
now, question on gases. It seems like 402a is better gas than 404a in general. Checking out e-bay price differential of 20% doesn't sound too bad for extra 12% on 402a for tank size doesn't sound too bad. (I don't know why e-bay is cheaper on gas.... does 27lbs of 402a @ $281 shipped sounds fair to you?) or 404a @ $223 shipped for 24lbs. Now it seems like I will need to change oil for 402a vs 404a, etc. Would it be too much trouble to go 402a route? :P Also what are the cons of 402a vs 404a in general? Pro's would be obvious temp difference (and how much you think?)

[Gray Mole]

I wish we could more easily find a bargain on vac pumps out here in the UK.

I'm still searching myself, mainly cos I've no intention of making money out of it, just want a nice small inexpensive setup, and that's proving difficult.

I'ts funny, I'd never used, or even heard of the 'split' recovery setups before I'd started looking for 'em on ebay, mainly because I've always used the Automotive kits, and they all incorporate Vac pump and recovery system. I suppose it's the portable kits you don't always want a big setup to lug around, but if you have to vac anyway, I'm not sure why they wouldn't all just incorporate 'em.

I just missed a nice basic Combi, though it had one of those awful charging cylinders on the side :rolleyes: but it was in nice shape and came with a couple recov bottles as well, and Robinair Vac pump was built in.

Went for £170 incl shipping.

Missed it cos my wife was looking on telling me it was 'too much'

dammit lol she has no idea...


Gray

[jinu117]

Well I just bid on e-bay for recovery machine... hope no one in here would try to out bid me... lol (you will know right away... I tend to use same nick on everything...:P)
As for vac pump, I am getting laboratory unit from friend of mine real cheap. We are going to have nice lunch coming thursday and I can learn few more tid bits from him I guess while we are eating :)
In the mean time it seems like pressure in 402a will have to be higher to achieve good running vs 404a... or am I reading the chart wrong? :P

[Gray Mole]

As far as I've been able to read off the charts, for 404/507/402 it seems under similar conditions they're evap temps are about 2-3c colder for each in that order, but I'm not entirely sure if the pressures are higher on discharge or not, but I assume they would be, though I'm not sure by how much. Adding a longer coil on the discharge would help I'm sure. As far as Suction pressures go, they follow that temp outline, and seem to be similar in their load capacity as well, increasing marginally in that order.

I'm picking up my 402a this week, but without a vac pump yet(I've had 2 fall through so far :( ) I won't be testing yet.

Nice that you've got some contacts in the industry, I've been trolling the auto guys for a used pump, but no luck yet. The price you pay in $$'s we pay in ££'s almost exactly, so I'm being patient.

If you can get a better deal on 402a over 404a then I'd go with the 402, just keep in mind that a srong compressor is recommended for it. Mach2's can be regassed with 402a and work, but they appear to be at the low end for that gas. I'm only using it in my high stage on the cascade, and might regass the mach1 I'm getting right away for practice, but the compressor on my high stage is a 7/8 'Lux, and should have no probs with the 402. I'll still be adding a coil before the condensor though, better safe.

Gray

[fatty]

Oy up grey old fella VAC PUMP (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROBINAIR-MODEL-15601-VACUUM-PUMP-AIR-CONDITIONING_W0QQitemZ5995557215QQcategoryZ20711QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) might be worth a watch

[Jack]

a NL11F compressor, which is used in the Mach's in Europe, can handle upto 15bar condensor pressure. So you'd have to stay under ~30 oC condensor temp. with r402...

[Gray Mole]

LMAO Fatty I'm already watching that one :D

I see you've got something in there too, I don't need 10 of 'em, but I might take a couple if you'd sell 'em to me(you know what I mean ;) )

Cool, will keep that in mind, I'll have to have a decent size coil for desuperheat before the condensor to make sure I'm safe, and maybe add a pusher fan to the condensor itself if I'm gonna mod that Mach1.

I'll hold onto the 402 til you get back Fatty, I can't see using 10kg in 3 weeks, but you never know lol

Just bought some copper plates off fleabay too, 3mm, should work well when I get around to making a pair of gpu evaps, they look to be pretty flat already, and big enough to make 4 or 5 evap caps in case I mess one or two up. Ebay is such a pain, but it's hard to get things cheaper anywhere else.

Gray

[Jack]

It will be a good idea to exchange the Mach's condensor for a bigger one, like chilly1's 3row (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41524)... because the standard condensor def. isn't gonna hold r402 :)

Does anybody have a descent P/T chart of r402?

[jinu117]

Yeah the 3 row condensor looks good. I think part of my problem with current single stage is that refrigerant is having hard time turning into liquid in this puny double row condensor (same thing as mach unit I think) while compressor is very nice Americold (about 1/3 HP while as quiet or quieter than Danfoss one :P)
Must be pushing gas way too fast for this condensor to cope with. I might end up picking up oversized condensor this thursday :) Going to be interesting when everything works out. Since I need to keep the unit quiet I guess I might just stick to 404a. 30c condensor temp seems... bit hard for me in S. California... :) I am only thinking about tops 70-80cfm through the condensor even in full load after all :P (going to make nice shroud to help efficiecny)

[Gray Mole]

Well at some point I'm gonna have to put in an order for some stuff from Chilly again, so I might put one of those on the list too :rolleyes: It ain't 'cost-effective systems' now is it lol

I'm still likely going to use his head for the cascade as well, so it's just one more thing, though I was going to just butcher the mach1 and use it for the initial setup, regassing it was just a play. I've got a different larger evap head I was going to stick on in the short term, and put the chilly head on the finished product.

I'll probs just try it and see if it'll hold up by adding the coil and more fan power, but we'll see. I might not bother for now, if it's just not gonna handle it, I'm more interested in getting the cascade put together some time this year :rolleyes:

Gray

[Jack]

while compressor is very nice Americold (about 1/3 HP while as quiet or quieter than Danfoss one :P)
Is that Americold a r134 compressor?


Well at some point I'm gonna have to put in an order for some stuff from Chilly again, so I might put one of those on the list too :rolleyes: It ain't 'cost-effective systems' now is it lol
Those 3 row condensors from chilly are fairly cheap actually, only the shipping costs will probably not :p:
I'm thinking 'bout buying a few of those 3 rows to compensate for the shipping costs...

[jinu117]

Is that Americold a r134 compressor?


Those 3 row condensors from chilly are fairly cheap actually, only the shipping costs will probably not :p:
I'm thinking 'bout buying a few of those 3 rows to compensate for the shipping costs...

I probably will swing by vegas in couple of weeks... my wife has been bugging me... (brother in law lives there).
I might pick up few things there while I am there :P Justfication for shipping charge ahahah.
Americold compressor is ripped off unit from old Kyrotech Super G :) There are some cascade units that are going sub 100 with this compressors... :) Too bad the company is out of business. (I believe these are special made unit per Kyrotech's request to keep it quieter for performance using larger piston area and slower RPM)

[Gray Mole]

Yeah he's got them for a very reasonable price :D

Shipping is the big killer, so defo worth buying the extra to compensate for the added cost.

If you happen to buy up a few 'extra', Jack, I'll be happy to take one off your hands ;)

I miss living in Canada sometimes, at least it was close enough to order, and the family goes out to Vegas once a year to gamble away the 'inheritance' lol so could get 'em to pick things up, but the shipping is just as bad from Canada :rolleyes:

Gray

[jinu117]

Robinair 25175B .... now close to $300 !!! how much is this thing really worth. I think I really missed great deal of $220 or so on promax when I was cleaning up grage -_-; How much should decent 1/2 HP oileless recovery machine should be in your opinion guys :P

[EMC2]

Does anybody have a descent P/T chart of r402?

See attached handy reference chart for a variety ;) BTW... Dupont has full data on most refrigerants on their website under their Suva brand name: P/T charts, transport properties, etc, etc.

Peace :toast:

[jinu117]

Gotta love it. Kept losing recovery on e-bay auction... 5 and counting now. I have everything ready to go and only thing missing is... you guessed it... recovery machine. People suddenly are paying whole lot for these compared recently finished auction for some unknown reason.... and the heatwave is finally going away I thought... -_-;