NEWS: R520 "Fudo" to have Sixteen Pipes

[Revv23]

http://theinquirer.net/?article=25730


Some of the chips will work at 700MHz or even 800MHz but yields at those speeds won't be satisfactory. Nevertheless, there is a good indication that overclockers will like this tech as will get them to run at sky high speeds.

[Tim]

Too bad.... :(

[Jamo]

i take this with a pinch of salt, i know they have yeild problems but to only make the r520 16 pipe is a marketing disaster, i can't see this being true

[clayton]

Quite dissapointed, but I'll wait to see the R580 model available.

[.sentinel]

I don't believe that because nVidia would have a field day and people would buy nVidia cards even if it was faster.

[situman]

so all nvidia has to do is maybe open up on of the 8 disabled pipelines on the 7800gtx and ATI wouild have to scramble to increase clock rates to catch up. R520 is pretty much a shrunken r480 with higher clock speeds.

[Cybercat]

What they fail to mention is which version of the R520 will use 16 pipes. Many times we'll get information about an upcoming chip that says it has a lower number of pipes than everyone was expecting, and what these people reporting aren't told is that this only applies to specific cards. I remember there was rumors all over the place about how many pipes the R420 had. Many said 16, some said 12, some even said 8. Well, we got all three, in different configurations, using the same core.

So yes, expect there to be a version of the R520 with 16 pipes. Will it be the flagship part? Doubtfully.

[RiceLover]

i take this with a pinch of salt, i know they have yeild problems but to only make the r520 16 pipe is a marketing disaster, i can't see this being trueAgreed. Maybe a 1000mhz core wouldn't be that bad though. I still hope its bs.

[Entity_Razer]

If this is true I'll eat my 9800PRO. (for real, it's just sand, Fe, and Cu anyways)

I'm still with the 24pipe idea. A small bird told me so.

And what the bird said also is that it will spank Nvidia's ass at launch. Spank it HARD

I'm guessing 24pipes (the 24 pipes is a fact IMHO, anything less and it'd be suicide for ATI) at 600 or more MHZ.

And I think ATI is just filling up the warehouses for a REALLY nice release. They can't afford anything less anyways because that would be (as I said before) suicide for them

[LOE]

bad news for ati... for us also, i was hoping that 520 wipes the floor with 7800 GTx so nvidia would unleash the 32 pipe 800 MHz chip they ware talking about :P

[RaZz!]

i take this with a pinch of salt, i know they have yeild problems but to only make the r520 16 pipe is a marketing disaster, i can't see this being true

agree.

i'm happy that i've bought the 7800gt. due to this given facts i dont think the r520 will be faster than the g70 series. i'm wondering whether the r520 will be as fast as a 7800gtx or whether it'll be slower. if it were slower.... millions of dollars wasted for nothing :p:

[waddupmm]

Hope this isnt true..

[Shadowmage]

R520 has a 512bit mem bus. It'll "spank" G70 even with a mere 16 pipes.

[Cybercat]

R520 has a 512bit mem bus. It'll "spank" G70 even with a mere 16 pipes.
another farfetched rumor. People need to learn to separate in their minds the realistic numbers and the astronomical numbers, and to not simply believe whatever's the highest.

Hey, while we're at it, let's say the R520 has 64 pipes, uses a unified pipeline architecture, and clocked well over 1GHz core speed. It's not realistic, but who cares. :D

[drcrawn]

Assumption is the mother of all fock ups.

I have faith ATI will compete very well against nVidia. Do I need to mention who has been faster the last few generations?

[Der_KHAN]

R520 has a 512bit mem bus. It'll "spank" G70 even with a mere 16 pipes.heard of that one too. this would be a very smart move knowing how bandwidth limited x850 and esp 7800s are.

on the other hand such cards would be very expensive to produce and ati would loose a buttload of money.

[Vapor]

I think CyberCat was spot on with his first post....R520 certainly has 16 pipes, just in it's midrange form.

I'm going to trust L'INQ on this one, but say that they don't have all the info necessary....examples: it has 16 vertex pipes, 16 pipelines in its budget form, 16 pipelines that are twice as efficient, or 16 pipelines that are unified (yes, I'm implying a partially unified shader architecture with 16 swing pipes and an unknown number of traditional pipes).

L'INQ no doubt has official word about 16 pipes, but the person who leaked them this info is probably laughing his ass off at the second part of the sentence that he left out.

No doubt this card will be good, much better than the 16 pipes would imply.

[Cybercat]

heard of that one too. this would be a very smart move knowing how bandwidth limited x850 and esp 7800s are.

on the other hand such cards would be very expensive to produce and ati would loose a buttload of money.
If you talk to anyone in the technical "know", a 512 bit memory bus is impossible to produce in decent yields, because of the incredible complexity. Not to mention it would drive up the price like no other.

nvidia why?

6800ultra xtreme >x800xtpe
6800ultra >x800xt
6800Gt >x800pro
6800nu > x800
6800le >x800se

:)
Well sure if you ignore all benchmarks. :p: EDIT: except the 6800GT> X800 Pro is correct.

[jjcom]

You forgot the X850 series.

[n00b 0f l337]

*pwnd*

[DilTech]

x850 was going up against SLi... X850 was ATi's refresh, SLi was NVidia's...So tell us, Who DID win that war?

[Jort]

NOBODY did:)

[slider99]

DilTech certainly has a good point there. X850 was up against SLI (and a very poor response too), not against 6800U as ATI fans usually suggest.

Before the refreshers, ATI had the better performance, while nVidia had the better features. It's all a matter of preference. (And choice of benchmarks.)

on topic: i think you guys expect to much of ati, just because you for some reason want them to win. i never saw why so many favour ati over nvidia. tbh, i don't think ati will deliver this generation (thanks to m$?). however, i think it's sad too, all competition is good competition.

[Tanktanium]

People are placing too much reliance on the number of pipes than they are in the quality and size of the pipes themselves. Last I saw, ATI had been designing pipes that were equivalent to 1.3 of the R4xxx or 6800 series pipes. Could be wrong though...I want to see NUMBERS. Need PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS!! :stick:

[Shadowmage]

Tank speaks the truth. There is no doubt that the pipes are widened by at least that much. It has been confirmed.

[perkam]

A. For all we know based on official info (none), any story that says its 16 pipes or 512bit is as believable as the R520 coming out to be a rodent eating jack in the box that does cartwheels to render data.

B. The good rumours make us optimisitic and the bad rumours vice versa...its best not to get caught up in it.

C. I just hope this passes over so ppl can start posting some REAL news ;)

Perkam

[n00b 0f l337]

Yup yup, go perkam! I follow your pholosiphy... Or whoever the hell you spell it.

[P_1]

If you talk to anyone in the technical "know", a 512 bit memory bus is impossible to produce in decent yields, because of the incredible complexity. Not to mention it would drive up the price like no other.


Well sure if you ignore all benchmarks. :p: EDIT: except the 6800GT> X800 Pro is correct.
actually the 6800 series does indeed perform better the the x800 series if u take into consideration that the 6800 series does everything at a higher precision(32 bit) then ati(24bit).

[HiJon89]

nvidia why?

6800ultra xtreme >x800xtpe
6800ultra >x800xt
6800Gt >x800pro
6800nu > x800
6800le >x800se

:)
Let me make some changes to that:
X850XT PE, X800XT PE, X850XT, and X800XT are all > 6800 Ultra Extreme or 6800 Ultra

[HiJon89]

Need PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS!! :stick:
True dat. I don't care if the R520 has 2 pipes or 64, 32-bit bus or 512, 8MB RAM or 2GB, I could care less. The only numbers I care about are the price, my FPS, and my 3DMark score.

[LOE]

I think this time ati will fock up like nvidia did with the geforce 5 series :)

It's just that leaders are always shifting shifting. Ati wont launch anything that cannot match the 7800 in performance. They simply can't afford to launch a product like... 9 months after nvidia without taking the performance crown.

Ati did good with the 9700 :) then nvidia did bad with the 5900, ATI guys used up to have it easy... now they are more than an year behind of multi gpu, and probably will be at least 9 months after nvidia until they have 520 cards in the retail.

Thou high end is not what makes money, Ati could still be fine if they manage to find some competition to the 6600 series

I still hope they will be able to chop some 24 pipe chips, cause nvidia has one more card- they still havent shifted their proccess down.

[P_1]

Let me make some changes to that:
X850XT PE, X800XT PE, X850XT, and X800XT are all > 6800 Ultra Extreme or 6800 Ultra
read my post above urs, the x8xxx series only does calcs at fp24, while the 6800 series is forced to do them at 32fp in ALL benchmarks, making it all that more impressive that it can even keep up or beat ati in benchmarks.

[enzoR]

thats nvidias problem. Do you notice any difference in IQ?

[Der_KHAN]

If you talk to anyone in the technical "know", a 512 bit memory bus is impossible to produce in decent yields, because of the incredible complexity. Not to mention it would drive up the price like no other.thats the same that nvidia said about 256bit prior to launching the fx5800 (which still had a 128bit bus)
ati went 256bit with the 9700p and it paid off in the long run.
i wouldnt be surprised if ati would take the risk once againthats nvidias problem. Do you notice any difference in IQ?no, but it will be interesting to see how r520 will perform in 32/128bit color precision
for the last 2 years everyone was wondering how much geforce cards suffer from that perf.wise

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

in response to the 32bit vs 24bit thing: then why is nVidia's image quality still mediocre? It's their own damn fault if they slow themselves down.

[HiJon89]

read my post above urs, the x8xxx series only does calcs at fp24, while the 6800 series is forced to do them at 32fp in ALL benchmarks, making it all that more impressive that it can even keep up or beat ati in benchmarks.
Not my problem Nvidia decided to do that, I just care about performane and in my experience ATI > Nvidia.

[DilTech]

in response to the 32bit vs 24bit thing: then why is nVidia's image quality still mediocre? It's their own damn fault if they slow themselves down.

Anandtech AND Xbit labs did side by side IQ testing zoomed in at 10x on the images.. ATi did NOT produce better iq, and if you put both cards up to HIGH QUALITY then NVidia comes out on top. Reason being? NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO ON THE X8xx's THEY USE BRILINIEAR FILTERING! NVidia cards can turn that off. Thus, NVidia wins in the IQ department. Get your facts straight before speaking what you do not know of. :slapass: :slapass: :slapass: :slap:

Now, for the ATi guys who still say the X8's are better.. ONE GAME.. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, COMPARE IQ AT MAX ON BOTH CARDS IN THAT GAME AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE!

:woot:

[HiJon89]

Now, for the ATi guys who still say the X8's are better.. ONE GAME.. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, COMPARE IQ AT MAX ON BOTH CARDS IN THAT GAME AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE!
I've never played Splinter Cell on my computer, but I've owned a 6800GT, X800XT PE, and X850XT and the ATI cards were much faster in benchmarks and games played much smoother. The 6800GT also used to artifact in CS:Source even with just a mild oc and with my ATI cards overclocked to ridiculous speeds I never see any artifacts.

[DilTech]

First, you're comparing top end cards to a 6800gt, of course the highend cards will be faster.

Secondly, we all know overclocking is a gamble, thus meaning that just because yours didn't overclock that high, doesn't make them bad cards.

[HiJon89]

First, you're comparing top end cards to a 6800gt, of course the highend cards will be faster.

Secondly, we all know overclocking is a gamble, thus meaning that just because yours didn't overclock that high, doesn't make them bad cards.
Well a 6800GT at 400/1100 > 6800Ultra so it really is one of their high-end cards, just clocked lower. And the 6800GT I had overclocked fine, it just made ugly artifacts in some games/benchmarks.

[trakslacker]

Now, for the ATi guys who still say the X8's are better.. ONE GAME.. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, COMPARE IQ AT MAX ON BOTH CARDS IN THAT GAME AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE!

:woot:

Minor problem here. Splinter Cell: CT is an nVidia-sponsored game which was designed to make use of SM3.0. Granted, SM2.0b looks close, but you just cant get all of the lighting effects and such from SM2.0b. So yes, in that game Nvidia cards will look better at max resolution of everything. NOt exactly a fair comparison when speaking about pure image quality.

[Der_KHAN]

in response to the 32bit vs 24bit thing: then why is nVidia's image quality still mediocre? It's their own damn fault if they slow themselves down.well the sucky AF has nothing to do with the shaders' color depth.
and 32bit per channel is the way to go. nvidias quadro cards are already very popular among DCC users for this feature.

[metro.cl]

i dislike both companies, they are playing with customers, they could give much better products at lower prices they are a duopoly (not sure whats the right word for it in english is x2monopoly).

[slider99]

HiJon89 > no one could care less about your fanatism (no pun intended). stop ridiculing yourself and leave the educated people be, don't try and lure them down to your level. I would suggest DH or THG for you...

metro_oc.cl > i agree.

[Revv23]

Well a 6800GT at 400/1100 > 6800Ultra so it really is one of their high-end cards, just clocked lower. And the 6800GT I had overclocked fine, it just made ugly artifacts in some games/benchmarks.


lol learn to overclock properly maybe? if an overclocked card is getting artifacts, your overdoing it, sorry but you are...

all in all, on one hand, i dont really believe this, and i wasnt trying to get a fanboy debate started, which has clearly happened here.

One thing about ati fans being nuts, look at the launch of the FX series, delay delay delay, rumor rumor rumor, no one could believe that the giant king nvidia, the ruler of the chip market for years, could be beaten by ati, the lower end card maker, everyone was waiting and waiting for the fx(ironic nvidia was moving to.13 early, just as ati is now moving to .09) and they sounded a hell of alot like all the ati fanboys right here do now. only this time ati is the one who we are all waiting for an answer from, on one hand, i really have loved my ati products, but with the paper launches, the delays, and the rumors that have infest ati in recent months its hard to have faith in my favorite graphics chip company, and im not going to hold my breath. GTX here i come.

[Ugly n Grey]

I'm not getting into this flamewar bullsh1t that seems to have erupted but I agree. If you get artifacts, the card, the driver or some combination of the two is not right whether it's OC'd or not. Same with a PC, if it's not entirely stable and dependable, who cares what the frequency is...crashing faster is not my idea of high performance, if I wanted that I'd load Windows 3.1...

I buy mid range ATI cards because I personally prefer the 2D presentation of the card on the monitors I have. I have purchased Nvidia and will do so again, but for my daily driver I prefer (at the moment) ATI for reasons unrelated to any benchmark or game.

I look forward to the launch of new products because it invariably pushes the bar up a level everytime on what can be considered "mid range". The x700pro is a basic mid range card. I like it just fine and it does HDTV out. I'm looking forward to the release of the 520 so I can move up a level to the 800's when they price drop as a result...

I find the speculation on what the characteristics of unreleased products are to be a little like wondering what I had for lunch two weeks ago...boring and it does nothing to assuage the grumbling in my belly NOW...

[invisible hand]

i dislike both companies, they are playing with customers, they could give much better products at lower prices they are a duopoly (not sure whats the right word for it in english is x2monopoly).

oligopoly....and yea its sucks....maybe they should form a video card cartel, limit production to 3 cards per year and charge $125,000,000 each.

[Ugly n Grey]

Intel sells more graphics logic than both companies combined....

[enzoR]

HiJon89 > no one could care less about your fanatism (no pun intended). stop ridiculing yourself and leave the educated people be, don't try and lure them down to your level. I would suggest DH or THG for you...

metro_oc.cl > i agree.


WTF?
he is just posting his experience and u go "attack" him for that? Go back to [H] where that seems to be normal.

[metro.cl]

i got news, some new rumors are pointing that r520 wont be the high end card, and would be released sooner (no specific date) i think this might be because the can compete with 7800gtx (mostly same performance maybe a little more but in single cards) now when you go x-fire this cards would kill nvidia giving time to ati and launch the high end card (maybe r580).

info picked from rage3d, beyond3d, and lots of places plus my own theory
the nice thing of r520 would be the high clocks on gpu.

[Der_KHAN]

... and imo theres no way that ati and nv could offer better price/perf

[HiJon89]

WTF?
he is just posting his experience and u go "attack" him for that? Go back to [H] where that seems to be normal.
Thanks man, people will <40 posts need to learn some respect :slapass:

And no, I don't think that I'm a fanboy. To me a fanboy is someone who has preferences for no apparent reason. I, on the other hand, base my preferences on my personal experiences with both companies.

[Esso]

The main difference with US forum and other forums is that people will not get away with causing aggravating replies.
Therefore it pleases me to read the reply from enzoR.

[toledo]

The main difference with US forum and other forums is that people will not get away with causing aggravating replies.
Therefore it pleases me to read the reply from enzoR.

I agree .... ;) .

[perkam]

This is a thread discussing the consequences and possibilities of the R520 being 16 Pipes...For our own good, lets keep it that way.

Perkam

[Tim]

So...wasn't there supposed to be an launch party this weekend?

Dunno about the time difference in aussieland...but shouldn't there be a launch or something? I mean....if it's only crossfire that went "official".... lol. :rolleyes:

Next we will see, R520 bundled with Duke Nukem Forever *sigh

[highoctane]

I don't think it really matters at this point whether its 16 pipes or 42 pipes, as long as the performance delivered in the end is up to par with the latest offered by the competition there should be no problems.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

http://www.fire.london.ca/images/extinguisher.gif



nope, still dont think thats enough. :rolleyes:

[LOE]

WeStSiDePLaYa

greetings on your 666-th post ;)

stay SIC

[G H Z]

So...wasn't there supposed to be an launch party this weekend?


http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=3934957&postcount=42

The pic has been edited to meet OC Forums preferences. The original is available in the gallery. Sounds like pretty much a bust, no R520 only some current gen in Crossfire.

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

i got news, some new rumors are pointing that r520 wont be the high end card, and would be released sooner (no specific date) i think this might be because the can compete with 7800gtx (mostly same performance maybe a little more but in single cards) now when you go x-fire this cards would kill nvidia giving time to ati and launch the high end card (maybe r580).

info picked from rage3d, beyond3d, and lots of places plus my own theory
the nice thing of r520 would be the high clocks on gpu.

:D O.K. - but if so ATI should release R520 in September AND even R580 also this year.......... ;)

:toast:

[perkam]

I wouldn't mind if they release it with 16 pipes, if it means they can sell it for $499 at launch or something.

ALSO, this thread is for discussion specifically on the R520 and its specs. All other discussion regarding ATI's R5xx line and launch fiasco may be done here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72799 .

Perkam

[krampak]

Finally is going to be 24 pipes?

http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=170101456

The R520 is a 24-stage pipeline chip that operates at 700-MHz. ATI is also readying entry-level and mid-range chips, dubbed the RV515 and RV530, respectively.

:)

[n00b 0f l337]

Oh god the wrongs and the rights. I geuss we gotta wait and see.

[canadian-guy]

Oh god the wrongs and the rights. I geuss we gotta wait and see.

thats all we can do. unless the ceo of ATI desides to come out and tell every one.

[DilTech]

Well, if it's 24 pipes at 700mhz then ATi is lying about more ALU's per pipeline. It'd also be pretty funny in all reality, as if they need 700mhz just to slightly edge out a 430mhz part then there's REALLY something sad here...

I'd put money on it being 16 pipes.

[n00b 0f l337]

I wont put my money anywere but the bank until we see a price tag.

[Tim]

If there's gonna be a 24 pipe version of the card...it's gonna be a Phantom Edition....for real.

I have no faith in them whatsoever to pull of a non-paper launch....I think you can expect the exact same thing as the 6800Ultra's (or EE for that sake) and X800XT's and PE's....only thing is that nVidia came out on top with the 7800's...no paperlaunch... I still think that is one of the most impressive things about the whole G70 thing... :)

[LOE]

the inquirer says the 520 XT will run at 600/1400 Mhz, and will be almost only paper launch... with retail cards impossible to get

nothing about pipes, I doubt that 16 pipes at 600 Mhz will outperform 24 pipes at 450 Mhz

[madpete]

Ahh poop, if thats the case then that is disapointing to hear (the paper launch I mean). :(

[Tim]

Ahh poop, if thats the case then that is disapointing to hear (the paper launch I mean). :(

Yeah it's basically a paper launch....

http://theinquirer.net/?article=25898

[LOE]

and so the tables turn once again :)

but there is still some time left for ati to make up something good.. time will tell

[metro.cl]

bad thing now 7800gtx could go up in $$$

[Tim]

bad thing now 7800gtx could go up in $$$

It will go down if nVidia launches an Ultra... :) (lol hopefully!!)

[drcrawn]

any word on AGP versions of any of these cards? Seems like nVidia is in the perfect position to develop one more for us. I mean will the x850xtpe be the fastest and last AGP card ever? I need one more card before AMD M2 socket comes!

[iboomalot]

"Some of them will be available in quantities like the 500MHz card while the 600MHZ card will be there but not in numbers"

I was looking very forward to what the team who designed the great R300 core was going to produce and this is what I waited and drooled over ???

600mhz would rock with 24 pipes but a 500 mhz with 16 pipes???

Hell my X800XT has that now STOCK and OCed at a mild 550/580 wouldn't be far behind a 600mhz 16 piped version.

very disturbing and this after being 12 months behind on dual cards.


not loosing faith but this IMO is not a good decision. Why do 3-4 tape outs for a card thats barely better than whats out now. hummmm

[turtle]

I've revised my idea on the matter...I made this post over at R3D, but i'll echo it over here...Apologies it's so long, no offense taken if you don't read my hypothetical post... ;):

My bet is starting to believe the Inq is right...but they always forget that whole "[33%?] more efficient pipes" thing ATi said a long while ago...Just is I did in my earlier post at XS. If that's true, 16pp and high clocks could very well be good enough. So my latest guess goes:

520XL

16pp fat pipes (x ~1.33)
500mhz core
600-650 mem
All the crap we already know (fp32, HDR[+AA?], SM3/PS3, H.264)
ATi efficiency magic + AA/AF causes minor hits in performance

520XT

same as XL except:
600 core
650-700 mem

If something like that were true (fatter pipes), they could easily match the G70 in fillrate, which again is one of the only ways we can guess about comparisons until we see R520 benchmarks. Yes, I understand the 7800gt has 4 less pipes, and a lot less fillrate and still performs well...So no need to flame me on that one. But doing the conversions with 1.33x16, that would make the XL right on target for matching against the GTX, and the XT being slightly better in any case. Seems reasonable to me...Launching the XL with wide availability to compete with the GTX, and a better card than anything else available in limited quantity. This makes sense to me, as Orton could be commenting on the fact R520 is faster than G70 7800gtx, but if nvidia releases a higher-clocked G70 (G71 7800U) it may not be able to compete with it. Say it does 550+ (based on my fillrate logic), they might have some fierce competition, and could end up having the slower part until R580.

That is, until G80...Whenever that is...prolly late summer or fall 06...and then we'll ***** about G80 being out and being faster for quite some time until R600 finally comes out and one-ups the competition again...
__________________________________________________ ______________
It's true though benchies will be the definative answers, but the GP doesn't have those yet, so putting the pieces together and guessing is pretty much all we have until the end of the month and/or october. Granted, this guess doesn't take into account mem efficiency, rops, how it will do with HDR, PS3/AA/AF etc. It's just a rough guesstimate to give some idea of my thinking. When reading this understand last generation (68U vs. X800xt) nvidia had 80% the fillrate of ATi's top-end, and still performed approx equally, so it will come down to architecture efficiency, to which R520's is unknown to the GP.

Based on theoretical "fatpipe" (133%) fillrate logic the R520xt would be a bit faster:

600(1.33x16) = 12768m t/s (approx 19% better than gtx)

^^^ Quite a chunk faster, but if the +33% number is accurate is unknown, and what that would boil down to in sheer performance wouldn't be known until we see benchies. Still though, that would make it most likely faster than gtx, especially overclocked, but one must consider they'll be expensive and in limited availability.

Other things to consider are:

500(1.33x16) = 10640m t/s (hypothetical 520XL fill rate)
430x24 = 10320m t/s (7800GTX known fill rate)

500x24 = 12000m t/s (good gtx overclock)
564(1.33x16) = 12000m t/s (theoretical overclock on XL to stay competitive in fill rate)

^^^ Seems they would compete. Since XL's are most likely failed XT's, we can assume they'll hit somewhere around, but not exceeding 600mhz when overclocking. It could go either way, but I think they will be close...yes, it's true there are many unknowns though.

still other thoughts:

If nvidia puts out a 7800U, I assume it will clocked at approx ~520-550mhz (ps3's 90nm RSX is 550mhz, so this seems likely). If that were true, at 550mhz it would have a fillrate of 13200m t/s. It's still up in the air if 7800U exists or not (or they're going to just jump to 32pp), if it's 110nm or 90nm (which will have a huge impact on clock), but I figure R520XT will most likely get beaten out slightly by it after overclocking, especially if G70U is 90nm. That could be close as well though, again depending upon efficiency of ATi's pipes, arch, and mem controller. If you think about it, this thought coincide with all the rumors saying "R520 is faster than gtx" and Orton saying "R520 may be faster, depending on how high nvidia can clock the G70".

[DilTech]

That would sound about right turtle, but you forgot one thing...

The G70 core has TWO shaders per pipe, and thus the pipes too are more efficient than the NV4x pipelines. This is why, at MAX rez, it literally SLAUGHTERS everything on the market, in most cases by double(even beating out SLi'ed 6800's, showing it's 24pipes can beat 32 of last gen), and can even keep HL2 at these settings WITH 4xAA at 60fps. Your mathmatics would work fine if you hadn't of left out this key specification in terms of performance numbers.

Also, G71 is already ready to go, we've already seen the heatsink the monster is packing(which, honestly, is the most amazing GPU HSF I've EVER laid eyes on), and they're talking of releasing it the day after the ATi card shows it's face. This could be a very ugly situation for ATi.

[kromosto]

i dont care the .33 more efficient pipes i wont but another 16 pipe card still has one

[jjcom]

That theory makes sense to me, I've been thinking about that recently now that talk of the R520 being 16pipes seems more likely. That enchanced pipe thing makes perfect sense to me.

[metro.cl]

someone with an nda could give some small tips so we can get a more acurate idea of how it performs, arquitecture is a huge unknown if it has 16 pipes and beats the 7800gtx but just knowing it wont be worst would be a relief

[jjcom]

This has me wondering...if 600mhz core is hard to release...makes sense if ATI places that as the XT PE. What about this?
XT PE 600/700
XT 550/650
Pro 525/600
XL 525/600 12pipe
then the plain 500/500 12pipe
then have a "GT" like model 450/450 8pipe "value" card

Then at least they have their Ultra high end part out, not in numbers but at least it's there. Then have 12pipe and 8pipe cards out as well since I doubt yields will be great, then they'd have a place to put those cards with failed pipes. Again, complete theory, but it makes sense to me.

[DilTech]

I'm thinkin perhaps this round they won't release 50,000 different high end models, simply because then they'd be competiting with their own stock from last year, which they desperately need to clear out(ironically enough, they said it's 2/3rd's pci-e, 1/3rd agp, showing agp sold better!) So what I can honestly see them doing is this....

XT 600/700
XL 500/600
Pro 475/500 - 12 pipe
SE(OEM) - 450/450 - 8 pipe , to get rid of faulty cores

Considering the XL will be the first one they launch, and everyone in ATi land are now use to XL meaning full pipes but slower core with bad overclock possibility. ATi also know that to everyone the PE stands for "Phantom Edition", so by dropping that, they can lead people into a false sense of security of thinking "it'll be available, it's an XT". Meanwhile, this way, when they have enough cores that can do faster than 600, and closer to 700, they could then release a PE, which then could possibly keep them competitive with NVidia's Ultra, while not killing their own sales.

It's all called marketing... If ATi is smart, this is how they'd do it.

[Geforce4ti4200]

is the rv530 the r520pro? I heard its just a 12 pipe verson of it. I am not happy with r520 specs but we realize ATI had terriable yield issues so they had no choice but bin with 16 pipes at similar clocks to x850xt. I can see the r520 being short lived and r580 quickly taking its place.

[LOE]

fat pipes?

WTF?

the IPC and MHz are always related, if ati are about to pump up the freq of the chip it will probably do less work per cycle

too many speculations... no chips yet...

[DilTech]

is the rv530 the r520pro? I heard its just a 12 pipe verson of it. I am not happy with r520 specs but we realize ATI had terriable yield issues so they had no choice but bin with 16 pipes at similar clocks to x850xt. I can see the r520 being short lived and r580 quickly taking its place.

ATi's CEO told stockholders they will NOT release the R580 until spring/summer 2k6, as in the R520 will have to do for awhile... With the sheer amount of money spent on the R520, ATi cannot afford to release a higher end card than it without making back it's money, as it's already taking a tremendous loss on backstocked x800's as it is... We're talking millions of dollars worth.

Now, what we *should* be worried about is this, since the R520 is 16 pipes, and yields are because of clockspeeds, and only the phantom edition's will be at 600mhz, then how pathetic of overclocking chips are we talking about here?

If they're having problems seeing 600mhz, then obviously the PE's won't go much further(if they could see much higher, or if more than just a VERY select few could do so, then they'd raise the bar on the PE's), and the XT's likely won't even hit 600mhz when fully overclocked without some major modification... Keep in mind, this time around the yield problem isn't the pipes, it's the clockspeeds, and thus this is going to hold back overclocking majorly. Think the X800XL, and you'll know what I'm speaking of.

[zakelwe]

Check out my post from September 2004, nearly a year ago ..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=627552#post627552

looks like theInq are a year late on my prediction.

Regards

Andy

[Geforce4ti4200]

isnt this funny! People first speculated that r520 would be 48 pipes and 1000MHz clocks then 32 pipes and 800MHz then 24 pipes and 700MHz now were down to 16 and 500MHz with phantom editions at 600MHz! Sorry but ATI is gonna lose money either way. They can either sell r520s at $300-400 or bite the bullet and lauch r580 early and get $500-600+ each depending how fast they are. ATI fans are trying to save face by speculating that r520 is magically faster than 7800gtx despite 8 pipes less and slightly higher clocks. I am not even sure if itll beat the x850xt PE! im serious too!

[LOE]

so now nvidia cancelled the 7800 U
so 7800 prices won't go down

that wouldn't happen if ati got a chip faster than the 7800 GTX a month after it's launch

so now even if the rare PE is faster than 7800 GTX nvidia loses nothing cause they actually have nothing to compete with (i mean in sales not in performance)

well 10x ati for the lack of competition

[metro.cl]

Check out my post from September 2004, nearly a year ago ..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=627552#post627552

looks like theInq are a year late on my prediction.

Regards

Andy

have you got any other news?? XIP makes me wonder hhhhmmmm you already had a card (r520) about a year ago hmm

[Tatewaki]

my guess (based on a certain source) is that R520 is 16 pipes, but 16x2 at 600 Mhz

[LOE]

and probably ATi employees are reading this forum looking for some nice idea so they can save their asses and finally make this damn chip :P

[madpete]

More conflicting info:

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2647&s=1

Man I'm confused, just don't know who to believe. :confused:

[Ugly n Grey]

OK, so I sound like a broken record....

YOU DON'T KNOW A THING UNTIL YOU READ AN ACTUAL REVIEW OR HAVE ONE IN YOUR HOT LITTLE HANDS....

But keep guessing, this thread is the best thing going on in the news section ....

[rick_fx]

VrZone The 32 pipes R520 performance will exceed the GeForce 7800GTX ... but there are only 10 pieces of the 32 pipes versions exist currently.

So, this must mean there's only 10 cards out there able to beat 7800gtx.

Guess 16 pipes and 24 pipes versions wont be much competition for 7800gtx :)

[HKPolice]

Read the HKPC site, there's no mention of 32 or 24 pipes. VR-zone is the ONLY site who mentions anything other than 16 pipes. I know someone who works at ATi headquarters, and I can confirm that it's 16 pipes.

Also, the composition engine of the CrossFire cards is made via FPGA process (same as the gigabyte Ram drive), which costs more than ASIC, so expect costs to be higher than a SLI setup. ATi doesn't expect everyone to run Xfire so CF cards will be RARE, demand should drive the prices even higher.

More conflicting info:

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2647&s=1

Man I'm confused, just don't know who to believe. :confused:

[madpete]

Read the HKPC site, there's no mention of 32 or 24 pipes. VR-zone is the ONLY site who mentions anything other than 16 pipes. I know someone who works at ATi headquarters, and I can confirm that it's 16 pipes.

Also, the composition engine of the CrossFire cards is made via FPGA process (same as the gigabyte Ram drive), which costs more than ASIC, so expect costs to be higher than a SLI setup. ATi doesn't expect everyone to run Xfire so CF cards will be RARE, demand should drive the prices even higher.



Reports of this cards spec seem to change by the day, I guess I'm with Ugly n Grey on this one. I mean where are these sites getting there so called information from exacly?

[LOE]

is there any date for the r520 launch yet, I'd like to know how many days of speculations are left :) I have a friend that works as a tooth fairy and he told me that ati will be in deep s**t if they don't pull out something serious

[Tatewaki]

my guess (based on a certain source) is that R520 is 16 pipes, but 16x2 at 600 Mhz
I told you so :)

http://67.19.9.2/?article=26010

[Tanktanium]

I told you so :)

http://67.19.9.2/?article=26010

Ugh, Fuad makes me want to vomit, what he just posted was totally contradictory to what HKEPC has said so far.

[metro.cl]

not looking nice, still feels like paper launch

[n00b 0f l337]

Hrmm inquierer says maybe more variations... Great!.... :(
Xt, XTpE, XL, Pro, GT, Gtt, rx, tv, dt.... Lol, i hope they eventually run out of the letters to use.

[mrlobber]

Never mind what I said here :)