The LCD Buyers Guide

[GameTraveler]

What do you think guys about the new model from Samsung 971P ?

"Priced at just $379.99, the 19-inch Samsung SyncMaster 971P offers 1280 x 1024 resolution, 1500:1 contrast ratio, 6ms response time, and a 178-degree viewing angle. It will come in black or white colors and features a nifty S-shaped stand"

What would you buy between Viewsonic VP930 and this one ?

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the Samsung 931C/931BF?


Viewable Area 19"
Pixel Pitch 0.294
Brightness 250 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio (Typ) 2000:1
Viewing Angle (H/V) 160° / 160° (CR>5)
Response Time 2ms (GTG)

Maximum Resolution 1280 x 1024
Colour Supported 16.2 Mil

Special Features

Wide Colour Gamut (CCFL 97%), MagicBright3, PrintViewer, MagicTune with Asset Management, Safe Mode (Down Scaling in UXGA)


linky (http://www.samsung.com/au/products/monitors/tft/highperformance/931c.asp?page=Specifications)

I've put a word in to add my request to the order queue, since the sales rep I talked to will get there first shipment of them by 9.25.2006. I asked about the 931BF, since BestBuy sold out of those, and there doesn't seem to be a local vendor.

About $280, at least for me, but that seems to be the going price in PriceGrabber.

[Random]

amazing guide guys, keep it up, and thanks.

[neaky6]

i have had a viewsonic vx922 for a couple of months now and was just wondering is there any calibration software i can get to adjust the screen cos i have had two other lcd montiors before this one and both have come with diffrent screen adjustments like for movie or text alreday in the menu but this only has contrast and brightness

thanks

[Silvermirage]

tag

[xateks]

Is there enough info out there to update the guide with the Viewsonic 930 and Samsung 970P?

Because I have to decide witch one to buy. So does anyone have any opinions about these two?

I am in doubt between Viewsonic 930B and Samsung 971p...
Anyone??

[eXa]

hows the new asus screens? like Asus MW221U...

[CyberOps]

hows the new asus screens? like Asus MW221U...
same question here? are there any reviews of mw221u?

[largon]

Dell E207WFP (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5123) seems too good for the pricing.

- 1680x1050 (20.1")
- D-Sub / DVI-D (with HDCP)
- 5ms response time
- brightness 300 cd/m
- contrast 800:1
- $289 :nuts:

What's the catch?

edit:
Ahh, here's the catch - its a TN panel. :\

[VaCreeper]

I am very interested in the ASUS MW22IU 22" but cannot find it here in the US of A.
Any links??

TY

Creeper

[Soulburner]

Anyone heard anything about this one from BenQ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824014124

Is it the only 24" Widescreen with HDMI so far? The Samsung 244t looks amazing but it does not have HDMI. They both have Component.

244t:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001222

But what about the screen? What differences do the panels on the 244T and the FP241W have? Both have great reviews.

[Teratism]

Supposedly the benq 24" is the first in the world for a 24" lcd with hdmi and hdcp and all of that other stuff. There are actually supposed to be two models one named as is and the other with a Z at the end, the z stands for a new technology they are adding in which makes all your pixels turn black for a frame. Think of watching a movie and you see a car wreck scene. between the first frame of car explosion and second frame of car explosion there will be a frame of pure black, it is supposed to go by so fast and unnoticeable and this will stop all ghosting effects.

http://www.benq.com/products/LCD/?product=839

[illmatik]

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the Samsung 931C/931BF?


Not too sure about the 931BF, but I can only see it as an improvement on the 930BF which I own and love. I also own a pair of Samsung 204B's which are just amazing for the price I got em ( $289 A.R from best buy).

[Teratism]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/11/07/Benq_FP241W/1.html

[Soulburner]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/11/07/Benq_FP241W/1.html
Excellent review. I would choose this over the famous Samsung 244T I think.

Makes me want to go buy one now, but is there anything coming soon that I should wait for?

The only thing that I really don't like is the adjustability though. The Dell can come down almost all the way to the desk, whereas this one can only come down to about 3" higher than that. On my desk that is a problem but it may still work. It would still put it lower than my CRT, which is what I want.

[Teratism]

A couple 30 inchers are out and about. The coming technologies of OLED and SED should be around by mid next year. SED is supposed to be able to go up to 100,000:1 contrasts and be only a few miliseconds. Basically think better than plasma and crt looks, as thin as lcds, long lasting. Etc.

[Soulburner]

Why would you need 100,000:1 contrast :confused:

[Teratism]

For a god like picture. Right now most LCDs get around 700:1 contrast, some into the few thousands and I think the best plasma tv on the market is around 10,000:1. Just imagine how potent and clear your picture will be at 100,000:1 with a 2 millisecond rate. If you didn't know it means there are 100,000 or 99,999 steps between white and black. Color accuracy.

[Big Deel]

Would this be a good choice for my setup?

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4335

My system: dual core opty @ 2640 x1900xt crossfire

This would be mostly for gaming on this pc.
My current moniter is a 22" crt with 20.1 viewable.
I play most games at 1600x1200 all candy on.
I'm having trouble picking the right one as this will be my first wide screen.I dont want to make a sideways or backwards move.Is now the time to buy?
$800.00 is about the max.
Thanks for the help.

[Teratism]

Benq 24" with the most features
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824014124
Samsung 24"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001222
And your dell monitor.

All 3 should suit your needs just fine. As mentioned Benq has the most features and the rest are very good. You could also wait for the 24" benq with the Z technology.

[Soulburner]

The thing that really turns me off of the BenQ is a review I read stating the screen sits way too high. They said the bottom of the screen sits 6" above the desk at its lowest position.The way my desk is my monitor sits on a perch that is already above eye level so I need one that will come down as low as possible. The Dell can come almost all the way down which is great but you can do better in a screen (or so i've read).

Looks like i'll be waiting longer to get a monitor...still not seeing what I want. Unless I cheap out and get a 22" for $300-400. The thing about going that route is you get what you pay for. I'm sure they are still really nice monitors but they put slightly lower grade screens and less inputs and options on them. They save all the best stuff for the 24" and higher screens.

You can get the 22" Samsung 225BW for $380 (which has backlight bleeding) and the 22" BenQ FP222W (that is not height adjustable) for a mere $340. There is also the Sceptre x22wg-Gamer which seems to be the only 22" LCD with HDMI. Stand is flimsy and non-adjustable though. Viewsonic VG2230wm 22" is $398 and looks to have good adjustability but a built-in speaker which I don't really care for. None of these monitors have higher than 1600x1050 resolution though, you have to pay to play to get a 1920 res and the price of admission for that is 24". These 22" monitors also seem to use TN panels.

The thing I need to know though, will I be kicking myself for not getting a monitor with an HDMI port?

[Teratism]

To fix your problem with how it sits you can always add an ergotron flex arm to sit it high, low, closer or farther back whenever you want.
The review I think you are mentioning is the bit-tech one which says 3 inches above the desk and not 6.

You will only kick yourself over having or not having certain features if you ever plan on using them, or more importantly how soon would you figure on using them. If you will use it right away then you will want the feature, if you don't expect to need or use it for years, then don't care about it for a while.

[Soulburner]

The next generation of video cards will have HDMI outputs. I would use it pretty soon.

I would use this monitor for a very long time. I'm going on 4 years now with this 19" Sony Trinitron and i'm really tired of it and its time to move on, that's why im rambling so much about this stuff. Hopefully someone can take something useful from it, until I find what I want.

I still rate the BenQ 24" as #1 from my research, if there is a workaround for bringing the screen down lower. It's all about how much you are willing to pay.

[Teratism]

http://www.ergotron.com/ConsumerProducts/DeskMounts/tabid/55/ctl/Product/mid/386/PRDID/11/Default.aspx
Not the greatest work around but it will do the job of being wherever you want it. The Z version of the monitor doesn't look to be in stores yet so you would be stuck with the normal version.

[[XC] leviathan18]

you need good contrast for good blacks thats all, 500cd/m2 and 100000:1 contrast will give you almost absolut black but i would take over oled or sed with bright side 4000 cd/m2 HDR 48bit color and infinite contrast ratio :D

[Soulburner]

http://www.ergotron.com/ConsumerProducts/DeskMounts/tabid/55/ctl/Product/mid/386/PRDID/11/Default.aspx
Not the greatest work around but it will do the job of being wherever you want it. The Z version of the monitor doesn't look to be in stores yet so you would be stuck with the normal version.
Ha, that thing is pretty neat. But for $169, no thanks.

[Teratism]

The site has a bunch of others, I think there was a desk mount for just up and down around 40$ You can also look up an LCD monitor desk stand or wall mount on google to find what you are looking for at a cheaper price. You can also contact benq and ask if there is any way to get a stand with yours that goes lower.

[Soulburner]

Is there any information on whether this new BenQ monitor you speak of will be more expensive than the current ones, and how much?

[Teratism]

None so far on price for it, I would hazard a guess at $100 more.

[erwinz]

is this ok.. :D

http://www4.shopping.com/xPF-IBM-T115-Black~r-1~CLT-INTR~RFR-www.google.com

hope anyone have try to use this.. :D

[rvd]

bump what's the best all around 17" lcd lol

[Soulburner]

SCEPTRE x22wg-Gamer Black 22" Info/Reviews:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824112005

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/67909965/m/227009891831/inc/1

Another:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1111713&page=1&pp=20

[Dodgy]

Benq 24" review. Note the 1:1 pixel mapping issue. :rolleyes:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/benq_fp241w.htm

[Soulburner]

I have a Sceptre 22" on the way. I decided to go with it because it seems like the best 22" screen and it will save me quite a few bucks. I'll upgrade next year most likely with a BenQ 24" when they come down in price but this should do great until then. I couldn't get myself to spend that kind of money right now.

[Big Deel]

I went with the dell 2407fp.I had a 20% off coupon so I got it for 639.00
I love it...No complaints.Playing BF2 and CFS3 on widescreen is great.

[Coastal_Eddy]

I have a Sceptre 22" on the way. I decided to go with it because it seems like the best 22" screen and it will save me quite a few bucks. I'll upgrade next year most likely with a BenQ 24" when they come down in price but this should do great until then. I couldn't get myself to spend that kind of money right now.I've had my 22" Sceptre monitor for six weeks now and I love it. I especially love the HDMI connection with my new PS3 and upsampling DVD player set at 1080i. The Sceptre lets you have 3 graphic inputs (VGA, DVI, HDMI) at the same time, allowing you to switch between them just by clicking the "source" button. BTW: Both its DVI and HDMI plugs are HD capable.

The stand that comes with it is flimsy, but Staples has a great Neo-Flex stand that DOES work well with this monitor - and right now it's on close-out for just $30! It's even better than the Samsung 225BW's stand IMO. (See my HardForum post #57 http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1111713&page=3&pp=20 for pictures and more info.)

[Soulburner]

Awesome. Mine will be here on Monday but the stand won't so i'll have to live without it for a bit.

[Asazman]

great guide :cool:

[Soulburner]

My Sceptre 22" is here, how do I calibrate this thing for the best color and contrast?

EDIT: Downloading MagicTune from Samsung now. I'll see if this works for my monitor. If not I found some test images to use. Thing is, I don't know how to tell whats "best" because they are only test images with no instructions.

[Teratism]

The "real way" is to actually buy a color calibration tool. If you aren't so picky as to need anything you print to line up perfectly to what you see then
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration.htm
should be handy.

[Coastal_Eddy]

My Sceptre 22" is here, how do I calibrate this thing for the best color and contrast?Whatever graphics card you have, download the latest driver for it and run it. When I did that my NVidia card recognized the Sceptre x22wg as "plug-n-play" immediately, then automatically optimized my settings. (See dialog box photo: http://i12.tinypic.com/2u8xjsg.jpg)
:cool: I was very pleased with those settings. The only thing I changed after that was the lamp brightness. Doing so eliminated some of the backlight bleed I was seeing. What kind of card do you have?

[KoHaN69]

After almost 5 years of LCDs, I'm going back to CRT... The ghosting and no blacks got to me!!

[Soulburner]

After almost 5 years of LCDs, I'm going back to CRT... The ghosting and no blacks got to me!!
Mine makes a pretty good black, its the colors that are off but I think it can be fixed.

Looks like MagicTune detects your monitor and it won't let me use it without a Samsung screen :rolleyes:

Whatever graphics card you have, download the latest driver for it and run it. When I did that my NVidia card recognized the Sceptre x22wg as "plug-n-play" immediately, then automatically optimized my settings. (See dialog box photo: http://i12.tinypic.com/2u8xjsg.jpg)
:cool: I was very pleased with those settings. The only thing I changed after that was the lamp brightness. Doing so eliminated some of the backlight bleed I was seeing. What kind of card do you have?
I had to download a sceptre.inf for it to recognize my monitor. I will get the latest Catalyst though.

[Soulburner]

Coming from a CRT, input lag is really bothering me. Trying to find some kind of fix.

Using RefreshForce like I normally do, I can't change the refresh rate of the monitor. It seems to be locked @ 60Hz. Any pointers?

Don't have a faster mouse to try either. Using Logitech MX1000 Cordless Laser which was always spot-on with the CRT.

[Teratism]

Using a digital cable connection most likely limited your refresh to 60hz.

Input lag can be produced by a slow computer, a bad mouse, a slow graphics card, or your monitor just accepts it at a slower rate. I don't think there is anything you can do to get rid of the input lag.

[KoHaN69]

I have a 2405fpw and i want a crt :(

[Soulburner]

Using a digital cable connection most likely limited your refresh to 60hz.

Input lag can be produced by a slow computer, a bad mouse, a slow graphics card.
I don't have any of those things. I read a good article on it that showed it really depends on the monitor. Some are faster, some are slower. Of note was the Samsung 244T being noticeably slower than the Dell 2405.

And increasing the refresh rate can help bring it down to a manageable level. I don't want to use the VGA input though.

[Teratism]

Most people say the samsung 244t is slower others say it is fine and it is just their computers being slow. The VGA input gives you I think up to an 85hz refresh rate but the digital will limit you to 60hz. LCDs aren't really made for serious refreshing.

[Soulburner]

Alright I think I have this thing figured out so i'll post an initial review.

SCEPTRE x22wg-Gamer Black 22" 5ms Black to Black DVI Widescreen HDMI LCD Monitor

Full specs and user reviews can be found here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824112005).

Out of the box I found I had to connect both the DVI and VGA to the monitor or the system wouldn't boot. Strange. I tried just the DVI at first and I got nothing (case fans at max, did not come down to normal speed which tells me the BIOS hadn't loaded and it was hanging).

Once I got into Windows, the first thing that came to mind was, wow this is big. Coming from a 19" Sony Trinitron CRT at 1152x864 to this at 1680x1050 is a night and day difference. There is so much space here I don't know what to do with it all.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/Sceptre1.jpg

Default settings needed tweaking. Color, black levels, lamp, all needed adjustment to get a good picture. I chose the "Medium" color setting. There were High, Medium and Low. I assumed Medium was 6500K and it gave the best color though it doesn't display the choices in degrees kelvin. You can also select "User" and adjust R/G/B manually but I could not get them spot on. Maybe a pro could.

Buttons to access the menus are at the back of the monitor. Look at the Newegg link for pics. It is very awkward at first and takes a while to get use to it. You will find yourself hitting the wrong buttons at times. The good thing is, once you are set up you shouldn't have to mess around with the menu again, and it makes for a nice looking monitor keeping the buttons off the front.

I found these images off of various forums in my search for calibration tips, and I think others will find them useful as well:

1 http://www.atoyu.com/image/master_test.jpg
2 http://www.atoyu.com/image/testimage.jpg
3 http://www.fotomag.net/index_pics/Monitor%20calibration%20chart.jpg

Loading up Doom 3 for the first game test was a thrill. After editing the .cfg file to fix the resolution to 1680x1050 and the aspect ratio (thanks to the WSGF) I was able to play this game well on my X800XL. I had expected a major framerate drop but it handles it ok. It isn't as silky smooth as it was before on the CRT but the card is being pushed a little harder now with the higher resolution so thats to be expected. I would have to guess that its running between 25-50fps depending on the action. Here are a few pics for your enjoyment:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/Sceptre2.jpg

Backlight bleeding is slightly noticeable in the pictures, which exaggerate it a bit. A lot of people will gripe about this. I will stress the fact that you won't see it while you are using the monitor unless you get up there and look for it. If adjusted properly it should not really come into play. 90% of scenes in gaming and windows use will not show it at all.

There is no ghosting to be seen, though this is the only game I have tried. I haven't had a lot of time to sit down and really put it to the test yet but this seems to be a really fast screen. All colors and contrast are very good, and the game looks great. Blacks are also very good, for an LCD.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/Sceptre3.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/Sceptre4.jpg

These aren't the best screens, as you can imagine its extremely hard to take pics of the action and play at the same time, with only 2 hands. It looks much better in person and the black parts of the scenes are actually much darker. There is not much difference coming from my CRT in that respect.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/Sceptre5.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/Sceptre6.jpg

Desktop use is wonderful. There is absolutely no "screen door effect". The native resolution does a good job of keeping everything sharp and text is extremely crisp with the DVI. I do not use ClearType.

One thing to note, this is a TN panel so viewing angles are slightly picky. The monitor will give the best picture angled slightly downward. Still even at the optimal angle the top of the screen will be slightly darker than the bottom. Most noticeable in Windows, less in games. The stand included with this monitor can only be angled backwards slightly, and straight up. Right now it is rigged with a book to get the best viewing angle (as seen in the pictures above). I am going to pick up a NeoFlex stand tomorrow to replace it.

Can't comment on the speakers. Never hooked them up.

Another issue is the dreaded input lag. Here are my experiences with this:

-Most noticeable in Windows. Mouse will be slightly behind your hand movements.
-In gaming it barely comes into play. You can tell it is there but it is not a huge factor. It didn't stop me from kicking some alien butt.
-If you turn off VSync it almost goes away completely. Mouse aiming becomes notably snappier in FPS games, but you will get some tearing in the image. Decide which one you would rather have. Personally I cannot stand tearing so Vsync stays on. I imagine if you were competition gaming you would want it off for speed's sake, but it really bugs my eyes after only a minute or so of use.

The monitor is only 11.5lbs. Sure beats lugging that 40lb CRT across the room.

Have not watched any video or DVD yet but I expect it to look good.

Overall for the money I would highly recommend this monitor to a gamer looking to get into the Widescreen scene. Bang for the buck is very high. I did a lot of research and it seems this is the best 22" for the money. I really needed a replacement for my dying 19" Sony CRT. Another plus is it also has an HDMI input and reports are PS3 gaming on this thing is awesome at 1080.

I will likely step up next year to a 24". I had my eye on the BenQ but I couldn't justify the price. They should be a lot cheaper after this one holds me over for a bit.

That's all for now :cool:

[KoHaN69]

nice review

I might try it out
Costco has it :D
(http://www.costco.com/Common/Search.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&search=%09%20Sceptre%2022%22&N=0&Ntt=%09%20Sceptre%2022%22&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search)

[Teratism]

Beautiful first picture, looks to be a very nice 22", sucks a bit on needing to tilt and the tearing you get without vsynch (to be expected with lcd's and video cards that can give frames beyond lcd refresh rate), plus the input lag. All in all not very many bads and nothing too over the norm with them.

[Coastal_Eddy]

Alright I think I have this thing figured out so i'll post an initial review. SCEPTRE x22wg-Gamer Black 22" 5ms Black to Black DVI Widescreen HDMI LCD Monitor Overall for the money I would highly recommend this monitor to a gamer looking to get into the Widescreen scene. Bang for the buck is very high. I did a lot of research and it seems this is the best 22" for the money. I really needed a replacement for my dying 19" Sony CRT. Another plus is it also has an HDMI input and reports are PS3 gaming on this thing is awesome at 1080. That's all for now :cool:Great initial review and superb screen shots! Thank you!

[stereo55]

Nice review SB ....

:clap:

[Soulburner]

Since I have both VGA and DVI attached I tried switching between them (on the fly, via the source button) to compare quality. VGA has a slight fuzz effect and DVI looks more "digital" but a lot clearer. Text is razor sharp in DVI.

Still getting used to the picture, coming from my CRT @ 85hz in VGA I was really used to a super smooth picture in Doom 3 and other games. Running D3 at only 1024x768 with 2xAA it produced no jagged edges whatsoever and a very smooth game that also ran very fast and mouse movement was instant. Now with this monitor even at @ 1680x1050 and 2xAA I have some slight jagginess but its very small. The game runs a little slower, at the point where it starts to bug your eyes when its still fast but just not quite "liquid" and your eyes pick it up in a bad way. Also the mouse lags slightly, you can get used to it but I would rather not. My hypothesis on what was happening is the fuzzy text I always got in windows was carrying over to games as well and it was producing a sort of "smoothing" effect that I never noticed. Now that I am on the LCD on a digital connection, I am seeing all the tiny minute details that I wasn't seeing before. I need more AA to compensate. I am contemplating picking up an x1950xt 256mb off of Newegg to beef up the graphics a bit.

Also considering trying a faster mouse but not sure yet. Tested in-game, the VGA tends to allow slightly faster mouse movement than DVI. I can assume this would only be helped further by a higher refresh rate, which I haven't tried yet.

[»X$«êdên]

WOOHOO! I hear you about the details. Now I can do horrible at the game because I am staring at the details lol. Like oh I didn't know that was under that grate or you know those nose hairs you couldn't see before on that character...ew. All the things I missed using the monitor which was "smooth" and probably faster as far as headshots go but, ohh the crisp clean detail. Idk if I can get higher than 60-75 I would have to lower from 1680 to 1280. I haven't wanted to hook up my monitor as extended/clone because this is primary and it makes the crt look fuzzy. I just haven't wished to turn it off. It is terribly addicting seeing text so clear. I feel it has turned me daft to even considering ways to make windows purdy rather than speedy.:rolleyes:

Question: Did you see where your driver installed??
My x1900xtx sees the monitor fine I just didn't find the driver to integrate in an silpstream cd, despite extracting & installing it.

What mouse are you using? Which one may you try?Am curious of the new logitech ergo wise. Havent tried switching back to vga from dvi with the mouse. Then I wondered of pci e freq & usb speed boost lol the possibilities.

I may just have to take mine back to get this 22 Gamer one. Just wish it said 4-2ms(if that matters). It wasn't available at the costco when I ordered. The idea of the extra usbs, HDMI, nice buttons *trust me the Sceptre 20.1" W DVI LCD ones are a bit clunky in front but for $130 less I guess I could keep it & wait till these improve...hmm.

DVI/VGA Dimensions: 18.75" W x 15.38" H x 7.1" D 1000:1
20.1" 16:10 wide WSXGA TFT LCD, HD Ready
433.44 mm x 270.90 mm
6.2M colors
High WSXGA+ 1680x1050/60Hz,
1280x720/60Hz, 1024x768/60Hz
Analog: 24-82 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
Digital: 31-80 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
160º (horizontal)
160º (vertical)
199.00
HD Ready
AV cable x20 comp..Convert DVI to component cable (video). Enable viewers to watch in HDTV mode.
Factory presetting mode: 41

DVI/VGA/HDMI Dimensions: W 21.9" x H 19.0" x D 4.5" 1200:1
22" 16:10 wide WSXGA+ TFT LCD
473.76 mm x 296.1 mm
16.7M colors
WSXGA+ 1680x1050/60Hz,
1280x720/60Hz, 1024x768/75Hz
Analog: 24-82 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
Digital: 31-80 kHz (H), 50-75 Hz (V)
170º (horizontal)
160º (vertical)
329.99
DVI, VGA, HDMI(HDCP, 2nd DVI)
Support HD1080i/1080p
Factory presetting mode: 40

Gray-To-Gray (GTG)

Anyways...Nice screens and great review...just in time! Keep us updated.Thank you.:woot:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/638-4/22-the-new-size-that-will-take-over.html
unusual review haven't had time to read completely-doesn't have sceptre but may be useful.

[Soulburner]

WOOHOO! I hear you about the details. Now I can do horrible at the game because I am staring at the details lol. Like oh I didn't know that was under that grate or you know those nose hairs you couldn't see before on that character...ew. All the things I missed using the monitor which was "smooth" and probably faster as far as headshots go but, ohh the crisp clean detail. Idk if I can get higher than 60-75 I would have to lower from 1680 to 1280. I haven't wanted to hook up my monitor as extended/clone because this is primary and it makes the crt look fuzzy. I just haven't wished to turn it off. It is terribly addicting seeing text so clear. I feel it has turned me daft to even considering ways to make windows purdy rather than speedy.:rolleyes:
I hear you. I will never switch back. I am also positive that CRT has contributed to my eyesight going downhill over the years. With the fuzzy picture and the way CRT's constantly refresh, these LCDs have to be a lot easier on the eyes.

Question: Did you see where your driver installed??
My x1900xtx sees the monitor fine I just didn't find the driver to integrate in an silpstream cd, despite extracting & installing it.
I simply downloaded the sceptre.inf from their website and put it in Windows/System. Then I found my monitor (listed as "Plug and Play", sort of a generic term) and updated the driver, selecting it from the list.

What mouse are you using? Which one may you try?Am curious of the new logitech ergo wise. Havent tried switching back to vga from dvi with the mouse. Then I wondered of pci e freq & usb speed boost lol the possibilities.
I am using the MX1000 Laser mouse. I am going to do some research and find my ideal mouse. I have really loved this one though, its just that now with an LCD I feel pressed to go cutting edge and get the fastest one I can find. Even if it has to be corded its a tradeoff I can live with.

I may just have to take mine back to get this 22 Gamer one. Just wish it said 4-2ms(if that matters). It wasn't available at the costco when I ordered. The idea of the extra usbs, HDMI, nice buttons *trust me the Sceptre 20.1" W DVI LCD ones are a bit clunky in front but for $130 less I guess I could keep it & wait till these improve...hmm.
It's worth the small price gap, trust me ;)

LCD DVI/VGA Dimensions: 18.75" W x 15.38" H x 7.1" D 1000:1 Vs. # DVI/VGA/HDMI Dimensions: W 21.9" x H 19.0" x D 4.5" 1200:1 Flicker and Static Free, Plug and Play (DDC1/2B DDC2B)??
Anyways...Nice screens and great review...just in time! Keep us updated.Thank you.:woot:
No problem, I will try to keep this thread updated with info (post-review) type stuff as I use it more.

Also sort of off topic but sort of on - does anyone know if installing the Logitech software will speed up the mouse any? Higher dpi/refresh maybe? Maybe just wishful thinking but i've never installed mouse software.

[»X$«êdên]

May go out tonight & get the 22 gamer & set it next to this one...HEHE but my 680 will get here at the same time & am contemplating another try at it...*no brain left*.
OT:
I have the mx518 and the older setpoint with the disc comes with the proper gui, the new generic range 310 setpoint has many gui & with windows hid gets glitchy "sometimes" due to me turning off services :). I have the 500 510s too.

I use the setpoint to force Speed/acceleration to setpoint vs. OS run which is faster in my opinion. Then I have the settings pretty high and change fov in my game which gives the feel of speed even more. Plus you can setup your games in the Advanced gaming settings section which I like & have custom buttons rather than the "change sensitivity" options. (not sure I care for the extra services running shown in task manager...)

Just peeked at the site again and they have a Battlefield edition lol
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2142,CONTENTID=12898
But I am curious of the mx rev performance.
I tried the G5laser before & took it back and the recent ones are missing a few buttons I like to set to weapons! or zoom.

[Soulburner]

I use the setpoint to force Speed/acceleration to setpoint vs. OS run which is faster in my opinion.
Is this in reference to mouse lag on LCD screens (cursor slightly behind hand movements)?

[Turok]

Hello everyone. I think I'll finally get back with this
LCD Guide since I may be getting a 2407wfp soon :p:
But I need you guy's help: Go HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126052)

Thanks
-Turok

[Asazman]

haha, yeah definetly going to forward my parents to this guide next time they ask me about lcds

[2BIG4U]

I want to order a new LCD. Can you recomend me? Plz recomend one normal and one widescreen. (min 10 or 8ms, 16.7) I mostly will use this screen for internet, word, exel, Autocad, Visual Basic 2005, Games, Movies. price range ~400

[[XC] leviathan18]

he soul thanks for that review the lcd looks beatiful if you dont know what to do with that resolution imagine me wit 1920x1200 desktop is so damn big 200 icon doesnt feel like a lot xD

[bugeyes]

Recently obtained a benq FP241W 24" widescreen, very impressed with its color reproduction, good gaming experience, hardly any smearing in FPS. Excellent for watching movies, but with the usual TFT twinkling, those Microsoft HD-WMV trailers look stunning @ 1080P.... bring on blue-ray/HD-DVD. So glad I paid a bit extra and went for this screen over the dell 2407wfp, I just can't find a single fault with the benq's image quality.


http://www.users.on.net/~bugeyes/index.htm/Photographs/Tests/Desktop.jpg

[Soulburner]

Recently obtained a benq FP241W 24" widescreen, very impressed with its color reproduction, good gaming experience, hardly any smearing in FPS. Excellent for watching movies, but with the usual TFT twinkling, those Microsoft HD-WMV trailers look stunning @ 1080P.... bring on blue-ray/HD-DVD. So glad I paid a bit extra and went for this screen over the dell 2407wfp, I just can't find a single fault with the benq's image quality.
Mind if I ask a few questions?

Are you running native resolution with DVI?

What mouse and keyboard are you using? Looks like a G5 corded? What was your previous monitor, and do you notice any input lag?

[bugeyes]

last screen was a samsung 172X

yeah 1920 x 1200 over DVI and no input lag over dvi or d-sub,

logitech G5 and k-board is a cheap fellowes PS2

[SilverPages]

I think you should consider adding the Samsung 2ms 17" 731BF to the list, one of the best monitors I've ever seen.

[Think]

I don't think anything comes close to the Dell 2407 for a 24" widescreen. I would like to buy a similar or better brand then the Dell but for the price...I don't think there is anything out there that can be it. Any opinions on this?

There having a boxing day special on it for $699 canadian.

[Blackbeard]

My sister bought the dell 2407WFP 2 weeks before I bought the BenQ241W, as soon as she saw the difference in image quallity she sent her dell back for a refund and bought the benq! But she dose allot of photoshop and is quite picky, so the image quallity should be fine for you :)

[Soulburner]

My sister bought the dell 2407WFP 2 weeks before I bought the BenQ241W, as soon as she saw the difference in image quallity she sent her dell back for a refund and bought the benq! But she dose allot of photoshop and is quite picky, so the image quallity should be fine for you :)
Are you sure both monitors were calibrated correctly? I saw a side-by-side comparison on another site and they were not that different, minus all the extra inputs/options on the BenQ...

[Blackbeard]

Are you sure both monitors were calibrated correctly? I saw a side-by-side comparison on another site and they were not that different, minus all the extra inputs/options on the BenQ...

She brought over her dell and used something call a spider? to set the color on both monitors. said the dell had a magenta color bias and banding or something? something about better dynamic range on the BenQ.

[Teratism]

I am assuming you mean this
http://www.colorvision.com/index_us.html
The Spyder Calibration system.

[Soulburner]

Sounds like she knows what she's doing. I plan on getting that monitor next year after some new products have pushed the price down.

[»X$«êdên]

...


OT-Great! article/Review on MICE! http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679 :woot:

[urzrkymn]

Hi guys, anyone have any idea where to source a SCEPTRE x22wg in the UK please?

[Larry]

No but the Belinea 2225S1W 22" Widescreen looks good for the money heres a link http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-006-BE

[urzrkymn]

Your right, that does look very attractive!

Thumbs up to you sir.

[Soulburner]

OT-Great! article/Review on MICE! http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679 :woot:
Yeah I saw it. I'm just skeptical because I used to own an MX500 and I like the 1000 a lot better. Since the 518 has the exact same case I really don't feel like stepping back in time to a supposedly better mouse. It just isn't comfortable for me for daily use.

[rodman]

How does this monitor stack up against a 22inch crt in motion blurr? I would like to replace my crt but the lcds get blurry when the action gets going. However this one looks like it may fit the bill;)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824236011

[Soulburner]

That's a real steep price for a 22". For that, I would just spend a little more and get a Dell 24".

[awhir]

guys were can i get the SCEPTRE x22wg i am willing to pay for shipping from america.

i found 1 on ebay but with shipping it comes out at around 380euro is it worth this ??

[awhir]

i can get it off tigerdirect.com for the same price :(

dont think it is worth 380 euros :(

any other ideas :)

[Teratism]

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=28505645&search=SCEPTRE+x22wg

[awhir]

are they the only sites that sell it boo because tiger are the only guys and it works out exp :(

[Coastal_Eddy]

are they the only sites that sell it boo because tiger are the only guys and it works out exp :(See my post (4th one down) dated December 1st with all of the sources for the Sceptre x22wg (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?start=20&catid=18&threadid=672690). Don't know if there are any new sources since that list was compiled.

[mset]

Hi guys

From the OP

"TN panels have become the "gamer's panel" for some time because it sacrifices colour representation, image quality and viewing angles for the best response time possible".

I'm looking for an LCD in the $400-$450 range. My needs are the exact opposite from those of a gamer. I've picked out a few but it turns out that they're all S-IPS (i.e. HP LP2065). I was a bit surprised to read in the OP, from mid-2005, that S-IPS might be 'on the way out in favour of PVA/MVA panels'.

I ordered the new Dell E228WFP on a Boxing day deal ($250 US)... and I had to send it back. It's a 22" TN panel, and I just couldn't deal with the backlight bleed, the weird geometric shadows (dithering?), the washed out colour and the fact that image elements of the same colour looked radically different depending on location (viewing angle issue).

So I'm sure newbs are always on here asking 'which monitor should I get?' Instead, I'll just ask this - if I'm a non-gamer, who doesn't watch movies, whose priorities are colour representation, image quality and viewing angles, given the state of the technology today, should I concentrate my search on MVA panels only or are there more recent S-IPS panels that will work well for me?

Last, can anyone tell me the difference between Prem.MVA panels and simple MVA, as described below? I've been using this guide to figure out which monitors have which panels

http://axofiber.no-ip.org/inside/monitor.lcd.panels.htm

(If anyone feels like chiming in with a specific reco in the $400-450 range, please feel free - Samsung 215TW? HP LP2065? ).

Thanks

[Teratism]

A quick informative evaluation. I have the Benq FP202W widescreen monitor, I haven't totally calibrated it yet but the monitor has tearing, ghosting which is easily noticeable in games, and quick moving videos, is very grainy also. I would advise you to stay away from this monitor.

[mset]

A quick informative evaluation. I have the Benq FP202W widescreen monitor, I haven't totally calibrated it yet but the monitor has tearing, ghosting which is easily noticeable in games, and quick moving videos, is very grainy also. I would advise you to stay away from this monitor.

thank you.

btw... nice screen name :)

[Teratism]

Thanks for the compliment.

I can't recommend an exact model but If I had to say 4 brands on pure Image quality it would be LaCie, Nec, LG, Phillips. Maybe Forcam as a fifth. The rest of the brands lean a little more to the gaming side than image.

[mset]

Thanks for the compliment.

I can't recommend an exact model but If I had to say 4 brands on pure Image quality it would be LaCie, Nec, LG, Phillips. Maybe Forcam as a fifth. The rest of the brands lean a little more to the gaming side than image.

Hmmm... thanks. It's unfortunate that the list you mentioned doesn't contain any of the names I was looking at (mainly HP, Samsung). I have read a lot of good things about NEC's higher end monitors.

I will check out LaCie and Forcam tomorrow. Thanks again.

I know LG/Phillips manufactures a lot of panels for other builders.

[Teratism]

LaCie are a leader in Image quality for crt and lcd or they were if things have changed since I last checked, they are expensive as hell though.

Forcam is a very allusive you might as well give up on finding one of those.

Yeah LG electronics and Phillips make the panels for most of the other screens. Phillips I think has the best then would go LG. LaCie is more for if you need close to perfection monitors. The higher end NEC are good too. All will be relatively expensive.

[Death_Eagle_571]

Anyone have the SAMSUNG 931C?? It seems like its a very good monitor with 250 cd/m2 and a 2000:1 Contrast Ratio as well as a 2ms response time, it seems like its better than the Viewsonic VX922...

[shifty803]

Well, I got my 300$ Sceptre x22wg-Gamer off Costco so that I can return it if I change my mind or whatever.

So far my impressions are good. My old LCD was a 17" NEC Multisync 1760V or something. I believe that would be either one of the original PVA or IPS panels.

Overall, I would say that the new one with Chi Mei's TN film has color almost as good. Due to the use of RTC, banding is extremely minimal. Black levels are a little worse than my old one, but not by much. My white point looks really nice though, with very good contrast. Like everyone says, there is some minor bleeding top and bottom, but I only notice this during bootup or watching a fullscreen movie. With the lamp at "0", it is really not an issue.

Twinkling was also not really noticeable unless I put my nose right up to the screen. At a distance of about 3' or so, which is how far back I sit from my monitor, I can't see it at all. Input lag is very, very slight. I noticed it the tiniest bit the day I switch from my old NEC, but after a day I can't even tell. In BF2142 I got two gold medals in a row last night, and my Tom Clancy Rainbow Six skills (a true twitch FPS game) are not diminished either.

I will be able to calibrate with a Spyder2Pro shortly, and will have to tell you all how that goes once I do it. From what I've read, color reproduction is okay in the midtones, and a little worse in the brights. Honestly, a calibrated TN panel is going to better than most people's P-MVAs that are uncalibrated. Some of those ship with terrible settings, and the human eye is a poor calibration instrument.

Overall, I am very happy. The 22" size is much better than my 20" at work as far as web surfing and things like that go. The dot pitch on the 20" is just too small for me, and I have 20-20 vision. Windows XP has half-a$$ed desktop scaling, otherwise it might be okay.

For the money, I am completely satisfied. I am also considering returning this at some point to costco for a BenQ 24" with the P-MVA panel, but I probably won't. I'd rather put the money towards an even bigger 1080p TV when the time comes.

[KoHaN69]

Hey guys, I'm getting sick of my Dell 2405 - want something better.
Primary it's due to the giigantic 1920x1200 resolution my x1900 can't handle
-that and the gray blacks :(

Do any 1680x1050 monitors support 4:3 native (1400x1050 ?) with black bars?

Here are my choices:

dell 2407
Viewsonic ViewDock 22" VX2245wm
Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer
Viewsonic 22" VX2235wm
Envision 22" G22LWK
Dell E207FP 20.1"
X2GEN 22" MW22U

All of them can be seen here:
http://www.costco.com/Common/Search.aspx?whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4001499&in_dim_search=1&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=84&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&search=lcd&topnav=

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

[thinkingbear]

http://www.costco.com/Common/Search.aspx?whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4001499&in_dim_search=1&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=84&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&search=lcd&topnav=

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?
AFAIK all those 22" wide screens you list are using the same Chi Mei panels so it comes down to the engineering implementation, ergonomics, adjustments, etc. The Sceptre is intriguing because it is the only 22" W inthat group that includes an HDMI input, but at only $250 I am thinking about taking a leap on the X2Gen as a secondary gaming/DVD monitor to go with the Viewsonic VP201B I use when I need a real 16.7M colors. Hard to go wrong with Costco's return policy.

[shifty803]

I'm leaning toward the Sceptre 22" x22wg-Gamer since Contrast ratio: 1200:1 should yield to better blacks, no?

First of all, let me say that I have the x22wg-gamer and I like it quite a bit for my purposes. However, NEVER believe what the various companies quote as their contrast ratio. It is one of the cases where different measurement techniques can makes the numbers say whatever they want. Ditto on this for the response time. Response time varies at different color changes - it is never constant.

That being said, I find the black levels on my monitor surprisingly good for a TN panel. I don't quite jump on the bandwagon of people who say that color reproduction on a true 8-bit panel will blow away a 6-bit with dithering and FRC, etc...

I will say that a calibration tool is a MUST for good color. The difference between my uncalibrated LCD and calibrated is like night and day. It affects everything, from color reproduction and accuracy to white and black levels to gamma. Just get a Spyder2express and you will thank me, I guarantee. If you care about the way your screen will look for years to come, it will be the best 70$ you ever spent.

Since your main concern is black levels, I recommend an P-MVA panel, because their black level is superior to S-IPS and TN panels. There are currently not 22" panels that use P-MVA, however 24" and 20" panels exist. Here are two that I believe would suit your purposes very well, depending on the size you want.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/guides/viewsonic_vx2025wm.htm
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=19235&vpn=FP241W&manufacture=BENQ

TFT central has a lot of excellent articles about LCD technology (panel types, pluses and minuses of each, etc...). I learned most of my general info from them.

Edit: If running games or other devices at 1:1 pixel mapping is an issue for you, only the BenQ 24" has that built in from the two I mentioned. Otherwise you are left to your graphics card drivers. That is something to keep in mind. 1:1 mapping was one of the main reasons I bought the monitor I did instead of another.

[Soulburner]

So using the 6500k color option isn't good enough?

About the response time, that's why they advertise it was GTG - Green to Green response time.

[shifty803]

GTG means gray to gray, and that is usually the most relevant transition, but not always. I think alot of people don't realize that.

But anyway, yeah, the "Medium" or 6500K setting is pretty bad once you calibrate and see the difference. None of the settings are really close.

Basically the way it works is, you use "Recall" to reset to factory defaults, set lamp to about 1 (or zero if you like a dim monitor - I think 1 is optimal), and then just let it do its thing. The difference is massive.

I can't recommend calibration enough. If you look at sites like Les Numeriques (http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=38&mo1=125&p1=1386&ma2=88&mo2=106&p2=1042&ph=1), you will notice that the x22wg-gamer (which uses the same panel as that Acer - CMO TN) has really quite good color reproduction. You see it compared to the 2007 with the S-IPS panel, one of the best you can buy. The CMO TN doesn't look bad at all! Anything < 1 is perfect, anything between 1 and 2 is really hard to see unless you are a pro. But you will never get it right by eye. You need hardware to achieve that.

But the main thing that impressed me was the improvement in Black levels. WOW. You have to see it to believe. It won't magically beat a P-MVA panel, but it is just incredible how much better it can get than "by eye" settings or factory defaults settings.

Edit: To see the color comparison after calibration, go to "Rendu des couleurs apres calibration" in the third (bottom) menu. It helps when you have a girlfriend who is a French citizen :) .

[shifty803]

I should mention this in case anyone takes my advice and gets a Spyder2Express. This is IMPORTANT.

Do NOT install the software that comes with the colorimeter. Go to the Colorvision website (http://www.colorvision.com/dl_software.php) and get the latest version (2.3.3) and install that instead. Then plug in your colorimeter and let it auto-detect and search for the drivers automatically from the install you just did. This will avoid an annoying bug in Windows XP that gives you an error message even though there is no error. The more important fix in that version is that previously, LCDs were calibrated to native white point, which you don't want. The new version calibrates to 6500K, which is optimal.

Also critical is to get rid of Adobe gamma or any other color profiling software that might be installed on your computer.

This isn't as much of an issue if you have the more expensive Spyder2Pro, however. On those you can set the white point manually, among other things.

[KoHaN69]

AFAIK all those 22" wide screens you list are using the same Chi Mei panels

Well that sucks :stick:
one company says 1200:1 another 700:1 for the same panel? :shrug:

Thanks for all the info shifty803, I heard BenQ 24" is the best.

I'll probably tr out the 2407 first, just to see if there's any improvement from 2405

[Soulburner]

I calibrated mine using 3 sample images as shown in my review of the monitor. However, that is limited to the human eye. I was able to get the lights, darks and black levels pretty close though.

I may consider one of those with my next 120Hz 24" monitor but not for this one.

shifty803, can you tell me what the bars on those charts are referring to? That site has me confused. I am trying to compare against the BenQ 24".

[shifty803]

Honestly, this is not my profession, so I don't know exactly how the "delta E" measurement is done. What I do know is that, in general, it is a measurement of the monitor's accuracy in producing a color.

Neutral gray is 128-128-128 according to software, so if your monitor tries to produce the same color and it is a little off, you will have xx delta E, where "xx" is a measure of how much off it is.

The scale works like this:

< 1 = color reproduction almost perfect
1 - 2 = color reproduction close enough that it is very difficult to notice inaccuracies
2 - 3 = things are getting a worse now, although not terrible
3+ = accuracy is well off, and color difference will be noticeable

Here is a little summary on behardware's site.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/580-1/the-spyder-2-an-affordable-colorimeter.html

Edit: The Spyder2Express does not plot you a delta E graph when you're done, but the calibration is effectively the same as the much more expensive Spyder2Pro (but only for 2.2 gamma and 6500K, which is all SPyder2Express calibrates to). However, if you don't already have a Pro, it is really not worth it unless you are a graphic designer or something.

[Soulburner]

Ok that makes more sense. So basically the higher the bars the more out of whack that color is. Looks like the BenQ FP241WZ that a lot of people are waiting for has an excessive blue overcast? Can't that be controlled? I read thats a bi-product of the "Z" feature and without it it's normal.

If this data is correct, it appears that Dell's tried and true 2407 is one of the most color-accurate panels on the market, surprising...

[KoHaN69]

I calibrated mine using 3 sample images as shown in my review of the monitor.


Which monitor? How is that done? :lsfight:

[Soulburner]

Check page 23 :cool:

I didn't use it for color though, that is set to 6500k. But it really helped in getting the lights and darks set up right.

[KoHaN69]

Check page 23 :cool:

I didn't use it for color though, that is set to 6500k. But it really helped in getting the lights and darks set up right.

err I have 50 posts per page so this is page 11 for me, link please?

[Soulburner]

Didn't know that, here you go:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1880044&postcount=551

I like to keep my forums snappy so I keep it at default, this is page 25 for me.

[Teratism]

Anyone know of good software for monitor calibration? Non hardware versions. I understand there is also calibrating by eye but that doesn't help you with luminance or other settings like that.

[Soulburner]

I looked around and software was much more expensive than the $70 deal that shifty is talking about.

[Teratism]

What were the names you found?

Shifty was talking about a software/hardware combination. The spyder2 (express or pro) come with an actual colorimeter that you place on the monitor to define the light in the room and such from your monitor.

[shifty803]

My TN panel's viewing angle issues are starting to bother me now that the "wow" factor of done with. I am seriously considering going to a 20.1" S-IPS panel now...

edit: fixed typo

[Soulburner]

Yeah its the #1 thing that bugs me about mine, but you get what you pay for.

And we aren't talking viewing angles from the side, but straight on. The top part of the screen is darker than the bottom unless you tilt it. You will see the same thing on most laptops.

[shifty803]

Yeah that is the nature of the beast with TN panels. Looking from above the screen is fine, its when you get to perpendicular and below that the contrast starts to go.

[Cooper]

Yeah that is the nature of the beast with TN panels. Looking from above the screen is fine, its when you get to perpendicular and below that the contrast starts to go.

From ergonomic and healht point of view monitor should stand lower than your eyes.

[dirtwarrior]

Which LCD offer the most bang for the buck ?

[KoHaN69]

I'm still looking for a 22" widescreen that supports black bars with 1:1 pixel dot pitch for non widescreen resolutions (like the 2405 supports 1600x1200 with black bars and is the same dot pitch as 1920x1200,

if anyone's 22" supports this, please post!!

(if your montor can do something like "something less than 1680 x 1050" with black bars, PLEASE POST!!)

[thinkingbear]

if anyone's 22" supports this, please post!!

I don't own one personally but IIRC the Sceptre x22wg (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11169064) supports 1:1 pixel mapping

[KoHaN69]

I don't own one personally but IIRC the Sceptre x22wg (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11169064) supports 1:1 pixel mapping

at 1400x1050 w/ black bars?

4:3? ORLY? :eek:

[Soulburner]

How can I test it?

[KoHaN69]

How can I test it?

Go to display properties-> -> settings -> advanced-> adapter -> list all modes

[thinkingbear]

at 1400x1050 w/ black bars?
Most of what I know about this monitor comes from this thread over at [H] (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1111713). Don't know about 1400x1050 specifically but a definite yes on 4:3 at various resolutions with black bars on the sides.

[Soulburner]

Go to display properties-> -> settings -> advanced-> adapter -> list all modes
That just shows me the available resolutions.

I went into my drivers and changed it from "Fill" to use "Centered Timings" and tested 1024x768. The image was in the middle with all the area around it in black.

Is that what you wanted to know?

[KoHaN69]

That just shows me the available resolutions.

I went into my drivers and changed it from "Fill" to use "Centered Timings" and tested 1024x768. The image was in the middle with all the area around it in black.

Is that what you wanted to know?

That sounds right! But - you couldnt choose or pick custom resoluition of 1400x1050?

[thinkingbear]

That just shows me the available resolutions.
Again, I'm not an owner of that monitor, but the [H] thread says the pixel mapping settings are in the monitor OSD, not the drivers.

[Soulburner]

Again, I'm not an owner of that monitor, but the [H] thread says the pixel mapping settings are in the monitor OSD, not the drivers.
In the OSD I can choose:

Aspect:
Native or Full

That sounds right! But - you couldnt choose or pick custom resoluition of 1400x1050?
Nope. However if I set 1024x768 and have the image stretched (set in the driver) the monitor can still override it by setting the Aspect to "Native" in the OSD. I got the same effect either way.

:cool:

[KoHaN69]

In the OSD I can choose:

Aspect:
Native or Full


Nope. However if I set 1024x768 and have the image stretched (set in the driver) the monitor can still override it by setting the Aspect to "Native" in the OSD. I got the same effect either way.

:cool:


That's good. Source-engined games support 1400x1050, and so does Battlefield 2. I hope I can simply tweak older games to support that resolution as well.

One last concern before I get it:
Which cable does it come with: DVI-D, DVI-A, DVI-I? :shrug:

Does it have PiP ?

Do the 2 audio connectors act as extension ports?

What does Ultra Wide Screen Dual Page display (http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_x22wg_NagaP.htm) mean?

[Soulburner]

1. DVI-D (who uses DVI-A or DVI-I?)
2. No PiP
3. Can't comment on the audio
4. Sounds like its just marketing. They mean to say that on a widescreen such as this, you can fit 2 windows side by side.

A lot of games can be forced to run in widescreen resolutions if they aren't normally supported that way. I run NFS: Carbon and Doom 3 at 1680x1050. I also play Titan Quest, which the developer was nice enough to include this in the video options. It almost seems that it detects your available resolutions from your display properties, because the resolutions available to me on my 22" and the ones available on the laptop are different. Up to 1680x1050 on mine, 1280x800 on the laptop which is correct. More developers should take notice...

[Teratism]

It isn't fully correct on the 1:1 pixel mapping by what I assume is an ATI card, with ATI mobile graphics cards they do it right but desktop cards they don't. The difference is they add black bars to the top and the bottom of the screen yet the resolution is a 4:3 display and should not have bars on top or bottom.

[KoHaN69]

It isn't fully correct on the 1:1 pixel mapping by what I assume is an ATI card, with ATI mobile graphics cards they do it right but desktop cards they don't. The difference is they add black bars to the top and the bottom of the screen yet the resolution is a 4:3 display and should not have bars on top or bottom.

If you're referring to:


I went into my drivers and changed it from "Fill" to use "Centered Timings" and tested 1024x768. The image was in the middle with all the area around it in black.

Then that IS correct, because it's 1:1 pixel mapping by the monitor itself.

at 1400x1050 you will have black bars on the side with 4:3 ratio


Or did I misunderstand you?

[Teratism]

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1149693

This should explain what I meant.

[Knight]

I'm in that market for a nice 24 inch screen. What is my best option? :(
So far the BenQ looks better than the Samsung and Dell.

The price can be up to $800.

[halo112358]

I'm in that market for a nice 24 inch screen. What is my best option? :(
So far the BenQ looks better than the Samsung and Dell.

The price can be up to $800.

I'm extremely happy with my 22" WS benq :D I only wish it had lower aspect-correct resolutions so I could play games at higher FPS. I've noticed that samsung LCDs seem to have a lot of supported aspect-correct resolutions (ie: not just 1680x1050 but also 1440x900 and others).

[Soulburner]

I'm extremely happy with my 22" WS benq :D I only wish it had lower aspect-correct resolutions so I could play games at higher FPS. I've noticed that samsung LCDs seem to have a lot of supported aspect-correct resolutions (ie: not just 1680x1050 but also 1440x900 and others).
Right, but you don't want to use them. Because it is non-native, it is not nearly as clear as 1680x1050 on a 22" screen.

[SquattingDog]

I'm extremely happy with my 22" WS benq :D I only wish it had lower aspect-correct resolutions so I could play games at higher FPS. I've noticed that samsung LCDs seem to have a lot of supported aspect-correct resolutions (ie: not just 1680x1050 but also 1440x900 and others).

All you need is one of the top-end graphics cards - at least of ATi Radeon X1900XTX 512Mb or nVidia GeForce 7900GTX 512Mb spec or above to run good framerates on games @ 1680x1050. LCDs don't look anywhere near as good on non-native resolutions, regardless of scaling options.

Get a second card for Crossfire/SLI if you want more fps. :)

[ReDeemer]

Hi all,

Has anyone had to do with HP LP2465? My primary concern is how it will look like in games or DVD movies. Heard about some bluriness and hitching in multimedia apps but that was a while ago.

Thank you.

[wizardz]

i really recommend the DELL 2407FPW,

i bought this monitor almost a year ago, and all i can say is WOW..1920x1200, dvds look awesome, and almost any games can run at native resolution, ( albeit with a reduced image quality ). i know that one some revisions ( a02 and before ) that there is some color banding, i think mine's a rev2. and ,in i think it's multimedia mode, you can see some of it, i think...

anyway, lots of input, PIP, PBP, and almost anything you would want out of a multi-function-monitor...

cheers

[Soulburner]

If I had to choose a 24" with money as a concern it would definetely be the Dell 24". However with no regards to cost I would choose the BenQ.

Still though, I rather like the 22" because 1680x1050 is a good resolution to game at. It isn't too big to need a ludicrous video card that will be outdated in 6 months.

Someone needs to make a non-TN 22" panel with an adjustable stand...

[AzraelDarkangel]

However with no regards to cost I would choose the BenQ.


Lol, no regards to cost I would get an Eizo or NEC. I was recently looking at alot of specs and reviews of monitors in the 20"-24" range. 24" are still too expensive for me at $600+ and the nicer ones at $700+. I was going to get a 22" widescreen but I found out most of them use cheaper panels. Alot of people noticed the increased sharpness and quality of 19-20" when both were compared side-by-side (such as the smaller and larger versions of the same model line) I didn't really care for the 1440X900 resolution and thought all widescreen monitors in that size were like that. I almost forgot to look at the Dell monitors until recently and noticed that for the price they were superior to all the other monitors I've seen in quality and features. I might be getting the 2007WFP 20.1" widescreen 1680X1050:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4688
Although I'm very tempted by the Dell 24" UltraSharp 2407WFP at $609.

compare to other popular monitors:
SAMSUNG 206BW (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001095)
The ever popular Samsung, good all-around 22" widescreen but still uses an inferior panel with poor viewing angle and some backlight bleed.

HP W2207 (http://www.amazon.com/W2207-Widescreen-Flat-Panel-Monitor/dp/B000OK6T9W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1473320-9967069?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1176401923&sr=1-1)
Coveted for it's glossy screen which some people find annoying because of reflections, supposed to be one of the best 22" widescreens but some people have said that it's quality is noticably lacking when compared side-by-side to it's 19-20" younger brothers, W2007/W1907.

Philips 200P7EB/27 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824133023)
An example of a relatively inexpensive 20.1" 1600X1200 using a top quality panel (unlike the 22" widescreens), dead giveway is the higher than usual price and the high viewing angle, 178 by 178 degrees and the slightly higher response time compared to most "gaming LCD's". It's still cheaper than most monitors at it's quality range.

HP LP 2065 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=HELP2065&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=431061)
Similar specs to the Philips listed above, somewhat less expensive, high quality panel.

LG L226WTX-BF (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005088)
Said to have slightly better color quality than the Samsung but worse backlight bleed. Another version of this monitor, the L226WA is better and more expensive but said to be one of the best 22" widescreens, however it's almost impossible to find in the US. Listed here:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10084266&catid

Gererally speaking the better 19-20" use the best panels, the 22" widescreens use the lower quality panels and the 24" widescreens use intermediate quality (better than the 22", worse than the nicer 19-20") There's a guide to panel technology at HardForum:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222

Also look here:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/Category:XHD

[Soulburner]

I wouldn't say the 22" monitors use "lower quality" panels. It is simply a different type. The 22" screen are TN based panels where the others are not.

TN panels can produce good color when calibrated and are among the fastest. The downside is the viewing angle is very picky, and I'm talking up and down, looking at it straight on, not from the side.

[thunderstruck!]

I'm thinking about the BenQ fp222wh, mainly for it's connectors. I want to keep the option of using it as a console gaming monitor. Is there anything comparable to this in the same price range? Anyone with experience?

[Dr.FuzzyBallz]

KICK ASS GUIDE!!!! Should have noticed this thread earlier.

[halo112358]

All you need is one of the top-end graphics cards - at least of ATi Radeon X1900XTX 512Mb or nVidia GeForce 7900GTX 512Mb spec or above to run good framerates on games @ 1680x1050. LCDs don't look anywhere near as good on non-native resolutions, regardless of scaling options.

Get a second card for Crossfire/SLI if you want more fps. :)

What I really need is more CPU horsepower :P I've got an 8800gts bound by a 3ghz Opteron...

I'm kind of curious if there is some way to force 1440x900 on the benq fp222w, I'd really like to cut pixels on screen from ~1.75M to ~1.2M .. that should make things a little faster :D

[KoHaN69]

Hey guys. I'm still on my 2405fpw here. Man I wish Dell made a 22" version of this screen (2207fpw?) and priced it at ~$300 :(

Question:

Sceptrex22wg-Gamer (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11169064&search=lcd&Sp=S&Mo=51&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&N=0&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=All&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=lcd&Ntt=lcd&No=9&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1)
VS Sceptre x22wg-1080p (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11202025&search=lcd&Sp=S&Mo=51&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&N=0&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=All&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=lcd&Ntt=lcd&No=14&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1)

The x22wg-1080p is cheaper and supposedly much better (by spec comparison).
What gives? Is it the same panel? :shrug:

Looks like the X2gen was slightly updated:
x22wg-Gamer (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11187193&search=lcd&Sp=S&Mo=51&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&N=0&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=All&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=lcd&Ntt=lcd&No=13&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1)
anyone try that one yet?

-kohan

[TeeO]

I'm thinking about the BenQ fp222wh, mainly for it's connectors. I want to keep the option of using it as a console gaming monitor. Is there anything comparable to this in the same price range? Anyone with experience?

I'm in the same boat. I'd be willing to go up to about 350-375 for 22 wide that has hdmi...any suggestions?

[Johnmark]

Did a bunch of research, knew I didn't want a TN panel so I was looking for alternatives that I could buy locally. I wanted a 24" or 26" screen, main use is photography, video and the odd game.
Went to buy a Benq FP241VW even though the colors looked a little saturated, but figured I could set it up later, it has a great feature set as well as being a S-PVA panel.

Of course none in stock, so that Acer AL2616W looked very nice, not much for features but a nice 26" P-MVA panel so I bought it.
Get home pull my trusty old 19" CRT off the desk and put this monster on. Fired her up and she looked beautiful!
Then the fun started, it's native resolution of 1900x1200 wasn't on the listed as one of the modes supported by my 7600GT. As a matter of fact the highest supported resolution supported by the GPU/monitor talking to each other "plug and play" was 1690x1050. So I uncheck the "hide modes not supported box" and set the monitor to 1900x1200 "native resolution. And what I got was a screen that wouldn't fit on the display i.e. had to move the cursor around to see hidden parts of the screen. Look up the mode on the LCD and it's running at 1900x1050.
So off to the Internet I go. And sure enough find that Acer has a problem with the monitor, early models will not display native resolution due to some problem they will not elaborate on. Many people have RMAed their screens and are waiting forever to get them back.
Bottom line seems to be Acer fixed the problem with displays built from Dec.2006 onwards. Mine was dated Oct. 2006.
Thankfully I bought locally so I'm just taking it back to the store today and hope they have some that where manufactured this year.

P.S. I would really like an IPS panel but other than the NEC2690WUX or 2490WUX I can't find a reasonably priced one. Anyone know of one? I'm not going to order a Dell 2007WFP and HOPE it's an IPS, I want to know what I'm getting.

[KoHaN69]

Well, the Sceptre X22WG-1080P sucks royal balls in comparison to the same-priced ViewSonic VX2235wm (and the Dell 2405fpw)

The skin tones are much worse, and everything is tinted blue
both monitors (Sceptre x22wg and ViewSonic vx2245) have backlight bleeding issues. The Sceptre bleeds heavily in the bottom-right corner while the viewsonic is symmetrically bleeding on equally top and bottom.

Both monitors lack 4:3 with black bars, both seemed to have the same response rate using Counter-strike source and passmark monitor test

Both monitors color temp was set to 6500 and only the contrast/bright on the sceptre was adjusted down (the defaults were hurting to look at)


note: this was the x2gen-1080p, apparently there are effing 3 versions of x2gen
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11169064&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=6&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11202025&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=10&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11187193&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=8&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*

[adamsleath]

I've been looking around for "good" lcd's for a couple days now...and i have narrowed my choice down to:

NEC LCD20WGX2 [AS-IPS] - wide screen $900aud - 1680x1050 / 1440 x 900
Philips 200P7EB/75 [cheapest] $650aud
HP LP2065 $800ish aud
in this order of preference.

they are all S-IPS panels 8ms (um, the NEC states 6ms AS-IPS)
the NEC gets excellent reviews everywhere i have looked, it is also the most expensive.
http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/coremedia/generator/index,realm=Products__Details__Specification,spec= x__uk__en,docId=143646,group=all

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1745344&enterthread=y
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
..but it all depends what you like in a screen...i'm trying to get the best compromise between picture quality/gamut and response time....and i refuse to pay 1000 clams or more for a monitor.

..and tft panels keep improving...not more than 1 year ago i was looking at an 800 dollar samsung 20 " and it now retails for 400 :lol:

so prices keep falling and better panels keep coming out, and as time has shown me , quite quickly as well.

i dont know whether the rapid rate of tft evolution will continue...but if it doesnt, a newer technology no doubt will replace it...like Sony's FED (SED) technology.

So; until i have saved up the dough i'll be monitoring (haha get it ?) prices and panels, expecting further price drops...even though i occasionally hear stories saying there will be lcd panel shortages, i've never noticed electronics prices that have not fallen...:)


as for TN panels...has anyone heard anything about the Samsung 206BW?

[Soulburner]

Well, the Sceptre X22WG-1080P sucks royal balls in comparison to the same-priced ViewSonic VX2235wm (and the Dell 2405fpw)

The skin tones are much worse, and everything is tinted blue
both monitors (Sceptre x22wg and ViewSonic vx2245) have backlight bleeding issues. The Sceptre bleeds heavily in the bottom-right corner while the viewsonic is symmetrically bleeding on equally top and bottom.

Both monitors lack 4:3 with black bars, both seemed to have the same response rate using Counter-strike source and passmark monitor test

Both monitors color temp was set to 6500 and only the contrast/bright on the sceptre was adjusted down (the defaults were hurting to look at)


note: this was the x2gen-1080p, apparently there are effing 3 versions of x2gen
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11169064&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=6&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11202025&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=10&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11187193&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=8&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*
I don't agree with any of this.

1. My monitor doesn't have problems with a blue tint. Have you calibrated it? My color looks quite good, better than I expected.

2. I don't have major backlight bleeding issues. People really over exaggerate it. I never notice.

3. The x22wg does any aspect ratio you want. Read my review of the monitor. You can do NATIVE or FULL aspects. Native meaning you can have your image in the middle and the area around it in black.

[KoHaN69]

I don't agree with any of this.

1. My monitor doesn't have problems with a blue tint. Have you calibrated it? My color looks quite good, better than I expected.

2. I don't have major backlight bleeding issues. People really over exaggerate it. I never notice.

3. The x22wg does any aspect ratio you want. Read my review of the monitor. You can do NATIVE or FULL aspects. Native meaning you can have your image in the middle and the area around it in black.

1. I do not have an external calibrating tool.

2. The backlight bleeding was quiet severe.

3. NO, that was not avaiable, at least for dvi. I believe the x22wg-Gamer is NOT the same thing as the x22wg-1080p model I tested.

[Soulburner]

You may be right then. I wasn't even aware they had more than one model.

I don't have a special calibrating tool either, but I will get one with my next monitor.

[KoHaN69]

You may be right then. I wasn't even aware they had more than one model.

I don't have a special calibrating tool either, but I will get one with my next monitor.

Yeah, I was surprised as well.


note: this was the x2gen-1080p, apparently there are effing 3 versions of x2gen
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11169064&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=6&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11202025&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=10&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11187193&topnav=&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4018491&Mo=10&No=8&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=62021&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&hierPath=84*1680*62021*

check those out, maybe

[adamsleath]

now i'm looking at samsung 215tw S-PVA 8ms: ($635aud)
my second choice behind NEC GX2 20" 6ms AS-IPS ($900aud)


3rd choice:
TN panel samsung 226bw (with "s"-panel by samsung..."a"-panel not as good): ($500ish aud)
22" 0.258 dot pitch 2ms HDCP 3000:1

[Knight]

Anyone have experience with the Sceptre brand? I was looking at their 20/20.1 inch LCD screens, and they seem good on paper.

I would like to know if you think it is ok to get this screen over the Samsung.

Sceptre (Two that seem the same to me, but with different names)
http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_x20wg_1080p.htm
or
http://www.sceptre.com/products/lcd/Specifications/spec_x20wg_Naga.htm

Samsung
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Digital/LS20MEWSFVXAA.asp


The Samsung will cost me $70 more.

[adamsleath]

well ; as you say it looks good on paper...i have no idea whose panels sceptre uses for that particular model.

..it is a panel lottery if you cannot compare the panels visually side by side in a shop imo.

google for reviews and see what you find on the sceptre naga i s'pose :)

[Knight]

well ; as you say it looks good on paper...i have no idea whose panels sceptre uses for that particular model.

..it is a panel lottery if you cannot compare the panels visually side by side in a shop imo.

google for reviews and see what you find on the sceptre naga i s'pose :)

I could only find Samsung reviews, and they were great. I will find the thread which had a member review a Sceptre screen.

[adamsleath]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y

this is quite a good thread at anandtech.

[SkItZo]

Anyone know what the benQ FP241W LCD's are like?

(Also, you might want to look at buying in from the US Adamsleath, i've found that 9 times out of 10 its cheaper than buying in Australia.)

[p360stick]

what do I need to have a dual monitor? like what kind of cables, gpu.

what kind of resolution do I need on each monitor like do I have a limit on the resolution? like two 1600 by 1200?

also im thinking on getting a 30' inch lcd or a dual display?

[Soulburner]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y

this is quite a good thread at anandtech.
That worries me that not a single one of the Dell monitors are on that list.

I thought the 2407 was supposed to be really good for the price. You can get it for $569 right now which is pretty tempting, and it is not recommended at all on that list? I don't want to fork out the money for the BenQ because items like this depreciate too fast. I can save the $100 or so and be better off in a year or two when I move on to the next one, and the difference between the Dell 2407WWP and BenQ FP241W likely isn't huge anyway.

What I would really like is an AS-IPS panel, but they are so expensive that $600 only buys you 20 inches. That isn't enough for me, I need a 24" 1920x1200 screen for photo editing with gaming on the side. Then again that BenQ is down to $669 at Newegg putting it within Dell territory (when they aren't running specials). Some people spend that kind of money on a video card and upgrade every generation...doesn't make it seem so bad then.

[KoHaN69]

what do I need to have a dual monitor? like what kind of cables, gpu.

what kind of resolution do I need on each monitor like do I have a limit on the resolution? like two 1600 by 1200?

also im thinking on getting a 30' inch lcd or a dual display?

anything x800/gf6000 and later with dual-dvi ports would do it

[Soulburner]

According to that LCD Thread, the 20.1"w: NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 is the best all-around monitor. It sports an AS-IPS panel, gives you great speed and color at the same time, and a wide viewing angle. Its too bad that the $600 price tag only buys you 20 inches. It seems for those of us that want/need a 24" 1920x1200 display the BenQ FP241W might still be the best there is, aside from Eizo.

There are also a couple variations of the BenQ 24 incher now. One of them is reviewed here:

FP241VW

http://www.3dgameman.com/content/view/8277/103/

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/24-014-133-14.jpg

[adamsleath]

...until i hear anything bad about it i think this dell one is also a contender...:

Dell 2407WFP-HC 6ms G2G 24"WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2) "rev A04"

but note: NOT original wfp A00 or A01 rev's.

http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm - a comparison of dell 2407wfp-hc & benq24" & lg24"

this article also mentions lg l246wp.

the article rated Benq FP241WZ the highest for PC & Video use.


i think the dell is a little cheaper than the Benq if money is a concern...and they are very close in quality it seems....but Benq has the edge.


Benq 24": $1100aud
Dell 24": $1000-1100aud

well; i'd take the Benq based on those prices. (glad to have gotten to the bottom of that one :))


Now it's a toss up between NEC 20wgx2 (20") and BenqFP241W (24") most wood take the Benq i think.

[Soulburner]

BenQ FP241W Reviews:

Bit-Tech
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/11/07/Benq_FP241W/1

HardForum Thread (180 pages)
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1066372

Trusted Reviews
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/09/13/BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p1

CNET
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/monitors/0,39030120,49285404,00.htm

[adamsleath]

BenQ FP241W
BenQ FP241W 6ms G2G 24"WS AU Optronics P-MVA (M240UW01 V0)

...trusted reviews: 10/10 in all four categories...looks good :up:
...and 1080p HDCP

Games and Video ..yum yum.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3425-1.jpg

Looking at the rear of the FP241W reveals the feature that makes this monitor stand out from the crowd of other 24in widescreen displays – an HDMI port. Not only is there an HDMI port, but it’s an HDCP compliant HDMI port, so you’ll have no problem hooking up a Blu-ray or HD DVD player, or like I did, a Sky HD box.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3425-3.jpg

http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/3425-4.jpg

also a decently robust looking adjustable stand.

Put simply, if you’re after a 24in widescreen monitor, this is the one to buy i have to agree; unless you want to pay more than double the price for a NEC S-IPS type 24" screen, this is the one.

[Soulburner]

What's the deal with this cheapie 24"...new brand?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185004

http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/734358

[Soulburner]

24" Monitor Showdown

BenQ FP241WZ vs. Dell 2407WFP-A04 vs. LG L246WP

http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm

Took me a bit of searching to find that one.

[KoHaN69]

24" Monitor Showdown

BenQ FP241WZ vs. Dell 2407WFP-A04 vs. LG L246WP

http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm

Took me a bit of searching to find that one.

Nice find! Huge props to the guy for testing dreamcast VGA:clap:

[swiharta]

The 226BW is a popular Samsung 22" widescreen gaming LCD with a rated response time of 2ms. Some people are afraid to buy it now that the "S" panel made by Samsung has been replaced largely with the "C" panel, made by Chi Mei, and the "A" panel by AUO.

For those out their concerned about the quality of the "C" or "A" versions of the 226BW, I have posted a review of the "C" with custom ICC color profiles (http://www.andrewswihart.net/blog/review-samsung-226bw-lcd-c-panel) included to dramatically improve the bad color that it comes with. Behardware did the same with the "A" version (http://www.behardware.com/articles/667-3/samsung-226bw-a-and-s-series-the-verdict.html).

Bottomline: the gaming performance between all panels is virtually the same, and the color of the non-"S" panels can be fixed very effectively with a custom ICC profile. If you're on the fence I would highly recommend this monitor, now less than $300 at NewEgg.

[adamsleath]

...until i hear anything bad about it i think this dell one is also a contender...:

Dell 2407WFP-HC 6ms G2G 24"WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2) "rev A04"

but note: NOT original wfp A00 or A01 rev's.

http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm - a comparison of dell 2407wfp-hc & benq24" & lg24"

this article also mentions lg l246wp.

the article rated Benq FP241WZ the highest for PC & Video use.


i think the dell is a little cheaper than the Benq if money is a concern...and they are very close in quality it seems....but Benq has the edge.


Benq 24": $1100aud
Dell 24": $1000-1100aud

well; i'd take the Benq based on those prices. (glad to have gotten to the bottom of that one :))


Now it's a toss up between NEC 20wgx2 (20") and BenqFP241W (24") most wood take the Benq i think.

i had already posted that link :rolleyes:

[Soulburner]

I must have passed right over it...anyway as far as that BenQ goes, just get the one without the Z. It is a lot cheaper, $669 US right now and the AMA-Z most people end up not liking. Read my comments in "24" LCD's faster than 60Hz - When"? - to see what I think the improvements need to be to really make that work.

[adamsleath]

we are searching for the same thing...a better lcd than is already available...imo.

[mutambo]

Please suggest a
BEST 19" monitor < $250 to watch movies,programming,little home video editing.

[KoHaN69]

Please suggest a
BEST 19" monitor < $250 to watch movies,programming,little home video editing.

widescreen 19" ?

[adamsleath]

first; the ultimate in quality and all round performance seems to be the NEC 20" wgx2 - it is widescreen AS-IPS type and is much recommended.


i have seen a 19" ws...just have to find it again...im sure there arent many.

on the other hand look at this list: :eek:
as for recommending; i can't recommend any of them as i have never used them :)
i would pick a 5ms or less panel and start looking at reviews.

these are all TN type:

...BenQ FP94VW 2ms G2G 19"WS AU Optronics TN Film (M190PW01 V0)


NEC AccuSync LCD193WXM 5ms 19"WS TN Film

NEC LCD193WM 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Xerox XR6-19DW 8ms 19"WS TN Film

[Samsung 940BX 5ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX) - a much recommended panel...not wide screen]

Samsung SM931BW 2ms G2G 19"WS Samsung TN Film

Samsung 906BW 2ms G2G 19"WS TN Film - recent/current model.

Westinghouse LCM-19w4 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

HP w19 8ms 19"WS TN Film

BenQ FP92Wa 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Iiyama ProLite E1900WS-B1 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Neovo K-A19 3ms 19"WS TN Film

AOC 193SW 8ms 19"WS TN Film

ViewSonic VG1930wm 5ms 19"WS TN Film

V7 R19W11 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Asus VW192S 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Asus VW192G 5ms 19"WS TN Film

ViewSonic VX1945wm 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Sceptre X9WG-NagaV 8ms 19"WS TN Film
Sceptre X9WG-NagaV (ver 1) 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Acer AL1916ws 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

Videoseven L19WA 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

ViewSonic VA1912W 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

Xerox XM3-19w 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

Iiyama ProLite EW1900S-S 5ms 19"WS TN Film
Iiyama ProLite EW1900S-B 5ms 19"WS TN Film
Iiyama ProLite EW1901S-S 5ms 19"WS TN Film
Iiyama ProLite EW1901S-B 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Packard Bell Maestro 19 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

GNR TS902W 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

BenQ FP92W 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Advent X19TV 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

Videoseven L19WD 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Yakumo 19WJT 5ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1-L02)

Belinea 1925S1W 5ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1-L02)

BenQ FP93VW 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Daewoo W9ZQ 5ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1-L02)

Hyundai N91W 5ms 19"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM190M2)

LG L194WT 5ms 19"WS TN Film

Mirai DML-319W100 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

Mirai DML-519W100 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

ViewSonic VA1912w-2 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)

Hyundai X91W 8ms 19"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics TN Film (M190A1)


lol; there seem to have a been a few...

[adamsleath]

Supposedly a good panel...non widescreen.

Samsung 930BF 4ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L21)
Samsung 913B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 913N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 915N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 920N 8ms 19" TN Film (LTM190EX)
Samsung 930B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 940B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 940N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 950B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)
BenQ FP937s+ 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Fujitsu-Siemens T19-2 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Hyundai B90A 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Hyundai L90D+ 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Iiyama E480S-B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Iiyama E480S-S 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Iiyama E481S 8ms or 25ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01) or LG.Philips S-IPS (LM190E01-C4)
Hyundai B91D 4ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L21)
Samsung 901N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 901B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
NEC MultiSync 90GX2 Pro 2ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)
Samsung 940BX 5ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)
Samsung SM932B 5ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)

[mutambo]

Trying to find

19" or 20"
Wide or regular
<=$200
3-warranty
To watch movies,home video editing,programming,little aesthetic

[adamsleath]

chimei is a cheap brand.

[Soulburner]

After 8 months of watching the market, prices, and reviews...my BenQ FP241W is on its way. It will likely be here in the middle of next week, so I will finally get a chance to see what's supposed to be one of the best 24" monitors available today :D

[adamsleath]

taking your own advice i see :D

[Soulburner]

This thing is awesome. First impressions are great, no real testing yet due to a lack of time.

Spyder doing its thing:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/IMG_1567Edit.jpghttp://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/IMG_1568Edit.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/BlackHawk2k6/Computers/IMG_1569Edit.jpg

One thing, this thing is extremely bright as all the reviews say. You will be turning it down slightly even after its calibrated.

:D

[[XC] leviathan18]

what is that thing soul???????

[Soulburner]

http://www.colorvision.com/

This thing has really white whites and really black blacks...at the same time...it seems wierd because I am really not used to it, but its how its supposed to be.

I couldn't get this result before the calibration. Also the color was off a bit and it looks a lot better overall.

[TVFREAKAZOID]

Supposedly a good panel...non widescreen.

Samsung 930BF 4ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L21)
Samsung 913B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 913N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 915N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 920N 8ms 19" TN Film (LTM190EX)
Samsung 930B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 940B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 940N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 950B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)
BenQ FP937s+ 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Fujitsu-Siemens T19-2 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Hyundai B90A 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Hyundai L90D+ 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Iiyama E480S-B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Iiyama E480S-S 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Iiyama E481S 8ms or 25ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01) or LG.Philips S-IPS (LM190E01-C4)
Hyundai B91D 4ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L21)
Samsung 901N 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
Samsung 901B 8ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX-L01)
NEC MultiSync 90GX2 Pro 2ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)
Samsung 940BX 5ms G2G 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)
Samsung SM932B 5ms 19" Samsung TN Film (LTM190EX)

Do you know any good monitors in 22", widescreen and has HD capability? I'm looking into getting a new monitor.

[Soulburner]

Do you know any good monitors in 22", widescreen and has HD capability? I'm looking into getting a new monitor.
What do you mean by "HD capability"?

[TVFREAKAZOID]

What do you mean by "HD capability"?

Be able to watch High Definition movies. So, if I were to get a hd-dvd or blue ray drive. The reason why I say that because I've seen monitors that state HD quality. I think it was a Gateway monitor.

[Soulburner]

"HD" simply means high resolution format...

Now it depends what you want to do. You can watch 720p movies fine, but 1080p needs more resolution, so you will need a 24" 1920x1200 screen for that. You will likely want an HDCP compatible monitor with HDMI for that, which my Sceptre x22 has, and I believe is one of the only 22" screens that does.

[adamsleath]

looks great the benq 24.... any bleeding at the edges?...doesnt look like it from your pic....[you have the same modem as me - i see it in the pic :)]
the only lcd's i know of with 1920x1200 that are less than 24" is in notebook screens (ie 17"); if you find one let me know :)

[Soulburner]

Backlight bleeding - negligible. I can't even tell. This is a very good screen. Still need more time with it but so far its much more uniform than my 22" TN panel that got dark toward the top unless you tilted it forward (so the top is closer to you). All LCD panels are angle-dependant, this one is just much less.

Also, zero ghosting. My 8800GTS runs Doom 3 even at 1920x1200 8xAA on Ultra Quality and maxes the framerate with Vsync on and its smooth as butter. Running and jumping around and just chaos in general...and I cannot induce any visible ghosting of the screen :D

[TVFREAKAZOID]

Backlight bleeding - negligible. I can't even tell. This is a very good screen. Still need more time with it but so far its much more uniform than my 22" TN panel that got dark toward the top unless you tilted it forward (so the top is closer to you). All LCD panels are angle-dependant, this one is just much less.

Also, zero ghosting. My 8800GTS runs Doom 3 even at 1920x1200 8xAA on Ultra Quality and maxes the framerate with Vsync on and its smooth as butter. Running and jumping around and just chaos in general...and I cannot induce any visible ghosting of the screen :D

How much is your monitor? 24 inch monitors are a little pricey. So, specs should I look for that is considered a good monitor that can handle games and movies? What do you mean by backlight bleeding? Thanks.

[berk]

@ Soul..can you post your set up specs,RGB, brightness etc so i can get mine as near as dammit when it arrives on monday?
Its not that im cheap (honest :D),but funds mean ill have to wait a month before i can get a decent calibration system (contemplating the Spyder2express though).
Thanks ,Matt. :)

[Soulburner]

I can send you my profile. It will get you really close without being calibrated specifically for your room/lighting. I don't calibrate with the monitor, its left at default and the spyder changes everything in software.

So you have an FP241W coming huh? You will like it, a lot :D

The FP241WZ isn't necessary, I can't even find any ghosting on this beast so you don't need the black frame insertion. It's a cool idea, and in theory it will work but a few more advances need to happen to make that work perfectly.

[berk]

It's getting cheaper all the time over here in the UK,my pay packets due,i've done the overtime (im not rich like some of you hardware guys :p: ),so it's a good time to buy. :)
Thanks for the .icc

[Soulburner]

Yeah I picked it up from Newegg when it was $669, the next day it went up $60 bucks but they added a small mail in rebate.

[BrowncoatGR]

I just checked the pricing over here for the FP241W. We'll i thought 700E is not too bad for this kind of monitor. Cheapest that i found is :cussing: :cussing: :censored: :censored: :upset: 922E with the rest above 1000E!

[leoftw]

what do you guys think of the LP2065 from HP , I picked up a S-IPS model and was wondering how good is it ?

[adamsleath]

i've heard its good...also heard mixed reports.

some users love it others are very picky...
being a s-ips gives it a head start - ie great picture quality true 8-bit; not sure whether response is good enuf for gaming..?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y
ive heard mention of noticeable flicker on grey backgrounds...with hp2065

[BrowncoatGR]

Any opinions on the LG L245WPM-BN 24"? Its rather cheap like most LG displays but i've had good experience with them*edit LG as a company not the monitor*

[Machinus]

Is there anything better than the NEC WMX20 right now?

I want fast response time on a non-TN panel, preferably IPS, in the 20-24" range. The WMX20 is about $500, so I am looking for something a little cheaper.

[Soulburner]

I have immediate response, no input lag and no ghosting with my BenQ FP241W. Also great color and contrast, and the best inputs/scaling options of any (and yes they really work! - unlike some).

[Gorod]

Me 2 looking to buy a replcement for my old 21" Sony G520 CRT , had this thing for over 5 yers and want something bigger now :)

Most of the time it will be used for intense gaming :) and watching DVD/HD DVD/Blue Ray movies . Are there any new 30" LCD's coming out soon ? What do you think will be a better choise BenQ FP241W or Dell 3007WFP ? New technology Vs. huge size old screen :rolleyes: - what will make a better gaming experience you think ? Never had an LCD screen before and have no idea what to expect :) . Or maybe just wait for new 30" models ? :confused: :D

Dell sells 3000WFP for only $ 1269 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=3007WFPHC&s=dhs) now , very tempted to pull the triger but wanted to ask your opinions first :)

[Soulburner]

24" is about as big as I'd ever put on my desk, and its a bit further back than my others so I don't get nauseous when playing :cool:

Seriously, it dwarfs my 22". You would think they would be close, but they aren't. I don't even want to know how big a 30" LCD really is in person.

Do you have the power to push 2560x1600?

[BrowncoatGR]

Well i ordered the LG after seeing a lot of positive reviews from quite a few people here in Greece. I'll post more details whenever the monitor arrives. Now i only need to make space for it :rolleyes:

[Gorod]

24" is about as big as I'd ever put on my desk, and its a bit further back than my others so I don't get nauseous when playing :cool:

Seriously, it dwarfs my 22". You would think they would be close, but they aren't. I don't even want to know how big a 30" LCD really is in person.

Do you have the power to push 2560x1600?

Yeah i guess 24" is big enough :) , the thing is that i dont have TV (no space in my small room) and use my PC for watching movies so i thought 30" LCD would be cool to have :D About the power needed to run 2560x1600 thats a good point , you are right about that . Right now i am using 8800GTX SLI though , hope its enough for 2560x1600 @ AAx0/AFx16 (i dont use AA at all with 1600x1200 now and for sure wont use it with higher resolution like 2560x1600 :shocked: ) .

One thing that bothers me is that HD DVD/Blue Ray use 1920 x 1200 resolution
right ? So wouldnt it mean that its better to use 24" screen with its native resoultion for that ? :confused: If so what BenQ Model do i get - FP241W or FP241WZ ? :shrug:
90% of time it will be used for Gaming and rest for movies

Thx for all the help btw :toast:

[Soulburner]

FP241W. The WZ isn't worth the extra money.

If you are using a CRT now, and don't use AA @ 1600x1200, I guarantee you will with an LCD. Let me know if I end up being wrong on that ;)

[berk]

Some very wise words wrote :)
24" is great for Gaming,dvd's,trailers and online media,but general browsing and 2D stuff its TOO BIG in my opinion.
Honest to god,it's frickin' huge,i'll get used to it,but for anything other than Gaming and Film, 20" widesceen would be enough.YMMV.
Good luck. :)

[Soulburner]

Which is why I use Opera's zoom feature. Brings everything into readable size quite nicely. Works excellent for forums and hardware reviews ;)

[berk]

I'm on it!! Thanks dude. :D


LCDs.....;)

[psyconut713]

One thing that bothers me is that HD DVD/Blue Ray use 1920 x 1200 resolution
right ?


HD-DVD and Blu Ray use 1920 X 1080, or 1080p, and are 16:9 Aspect, the 24" inch screens, at 1920 X 1200 are 16:10, its cleaner for PC usage, fits 2 full sized 8.5" X 11" sheets of paper on the screen. So you will have black bars on the top and bottom of your HD-DVD's or Blu Ray movies, unless you stretch the film, which i wouldnt recommened

[Machinus]

These recommendations are great, but I don't want such a big monitor on my desk. Is there anything in the range of 21"-23" with the speed, gamut, and quality of an S-IPS?

[Soulburner]

The only panels like that are:

HP LP2065 20.1" (S-IPS)
NEC 20WMGX2 20.1" (AS-IPS)

Once you see the price though you probably will look past them.

[MaxxxRacer]

Souldburner,

I just ordered a 2407WFP-HC and Kohan and I are purchasing a Colorvision Spyder Pro 2. Should provide a great picture.

[Khanage]

hey guys, I been looking around for monitors (24" LCD's mostly) and i came across this baby... Samsung SyncMaster 245BW 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor

what do you guys think?

Heres some links for those who don't know about it:

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-054-SA

http://www.overclockersonline.net/?page=articles&num=1171&pnum=9

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SyncMaster-245BW-LCD-Monitor/dp/B000P6MOG2

[L'enFer]

what do you guys think?
i think it's 24" version of 206BW (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-051-SA)...

[Soulburner]

AFAIK the "BW" use a cheaper panel than the "T" series.

Check the viewing angle...dead giveaway it "could" be a TN panel.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001234
vs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001222

[adamsleath]

mmm i thought it was a tn...but tft central lists a samsung 245T as an S-PVA

Samsung 245T 6ms G2G 24"WS Samsung S-PVA (LTM240M2)


oh yeah here it is...:
Samsung SM245BW 5ms 24"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM240CT01)
Samsung SM245B 5ms 24"WS Samsung TN Film (LTM240CT01)

a cheaper 24" with all the pros and cons of tn panels ....

[Machinus]

The only panels like that are:

HP LP2065 20.1" (S-IPS)
NEC 20WMGX2 20.1" (AS-IPS)

Once you see the price though you probably will look past them.

Those are less than 21"...

Are those the only ~IPS smaller than 24"?

[L'enFer]

btw, wanted to know: some S-IPS displays have a long response time (about 20 ms). for example NEC 1970NX (http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/coremedia/download/219890/1970NX-Datasheet-english.pdf) has 18 ms. does it influence on quality of picture?

[Soulburner]

Not sure but be weary of specs. There is a big difference between advertised and actual response times. For example some monitors claim between 2-10ms when in real testing they are closer to 30ms, which most people still can't see.

[L'enFer]

actually, i've already got Samsung 206BW. design is very nice, but i still didn't have an opportunity to play games/watch films on it. i hope it will not disappoint me.

[ozz]

is there anyone on here using an LCD TV as a primary computer monitor? i'm thinking about buying a 32" HD TV and also using it as my computer monitor. i can't afford buying a 30" monitor and a 32" tv so i'm hoping to kill two birds with $1300. i have a couple of concerns though.

since i'm going to use it as my primary monitor, i'll be doing a lot of lab writing, coding, and other school stuff on it. how will it look? will it be distorted or anything? i also play a lot of games so are we looking at any quality reduction or anything?

if there's no real downside to buying an hd tv and using it as a monitor, then why aren't more people doing it? is it because of the lower resolution? is it that significant a difference?

[Soulburner]

You will have to get a 1080p capable screen. That will get you 1920x1080 resolution. It should work ok, but do not accept any lower than that for a screen of that size for PC use.

The main thing you will run into is no games are made to work with 16:9 ratios, only 4:3, 5:4 and 16:10 PC screen sizes so some custom work may need done. Check the widescreengamingforum for info on how to make your games work at the proper resolution.

[Tibu]

I just found about a new model from Viewsonic: VX2835WM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116084) It's a 28" LCd with a 3MS response time and has HDCP/HDMI. I'm guessing it's a TN panel but I didn't know they were making the panels that big now. I might just upgrade my VX924 to this one when the price comes down a bit. But it really sucks that it doesn't come a normal DVI port, only has DSUB, component,svideo and HDMI. Not sure if there's an dvi--->HDMI adapter out there.

[undefeatedone]

Great thread, I headed over to tftcentral and caught up on the rest. I'm trying to find a new widescreen LCD to replace this baby: Hyundai L90D+ (http://www.hyundaiq.com/pro_l90d+.asp) which was all the craze about this time 2 years ago. I picked it up for a hefty (not so expensive for LCDs at that time) $337, and I want to spend that amount or less for my next LCD's final price.

So I looked at a bunch on newegg based on viewing angles (angle >= 170), response times (8ms or under), resolution (1680x1050 or greater) and size (bigger than 20"). I came up with a bunch, and I was curious if anyone had any experience with these before, or if anyone knew for sure if any of these were panels other than TN, and if they recommended any of these OR other ones for $350 or under? I took a good look at that NEC 20WMGX2 with the AS-IPS panel and sweet response time across the color spectrum (unlike the TN panels) and it amazed me. I want something like this, but I doubt a little over $300 is going to get me that far. I'm really looking for a good-looking make that I can trust similar to this, with the fastest speed possible, since this panel blows away all other TNs with its spectrum-consistent responsiveness (I am VERY sensitive to ghosting while playing FPS, specifically Counter-Strike: Source).

Anyways, here's the list I've already sorted through, if you can find one here that's not a TN panel that you recommend other than the first one (which I know is P-MVA and is my first choice if all the other ones turn out bad), please give me a heads up, or please make me another suggestion!

P-MVA: Acer AL2051W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009105

Unknowns I need advice on:
Hanns-G HG-216DP0 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254024

LG L204WT-SF http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005085

Sceptre SW20C-Gamer http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112003

X2Gen MW22R http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824222030

Hanns·G HW-223DPB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254020

AOC Monitor 212Va-1 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824160006

AOC Monitor 22LVWk http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824160005

PLANAR PX2210MW http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824016083


Dream Monitors (out of my pricerange): NEC 20WMGX2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002320

DoubleSight DS-240WB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185004

[Soulburner]

All 22" panels are TN.

You need to go to 24" to get away from them, I'm afraid. And even then, now they are starting to use them there as well. The viewing angle is always a dead giveaway, as the 178* panels won't be made from TN tech.

The upside to TN is that they are very high performers, but the odd viewing angles annoy a lot of users. I'm not just talking side to side, its actually up and down that is the problem.

[undefeatedone]

Soulburner, do you think high-performance P-MVA or IPS based widescreen 20"+ widescreen LCDs will become more common in the near future, or should I expect TN domination with advances in TN tech? That Acer AL2051W P-MVA panel for under $200 makes me wonder if there are any other upcoming 20-23" non-TN panels in the $200-350 pricerange. I'd pick it up in a second if it was a 6ms MVA or IPS panel.

[Soulburner]

I would hope so, but it is hard to say. That would be a sweet spot in the market IMO, that needs to be filled.

[MaxxxRacer]

Just go my 2407WFP-HC and calibrated it with the Spyder 2. I must say that this thing is absolutley amazing... Awesome monitor...

[adamsleath]

nice to hear a comment on the dell 2407-hc; i've heard/read the HC version is good.

[aznsniper911]

I'm trying to upgrade my 22" Samsung 226BW to a 24" but I'm having a hard time deciding on a monitor. Which one would you guys take, the LG L246WP-BN or Samsung 245BW?

[MaxxxRacer]

nice to hear a comment on the dell 2407-hc; i've heard/read the HC version is good.

Kohan69 is going to bring his 2405 over and we will compare.

Mini-Review of the Dell 2407WFP-HC 24" Display


Black Level
The default brightness is too high for me, but when I turn down the brightness you loose alot of detail in blacks. For instance, at 10 brightness I wasnt able to see a difference between RGB 0,0,0 and RGB 15,15,15. It took until RGB 16,16,16 for me to see it. I turned the brightness back up to 50 and then I could see the difference between RGB 0,0,0 and RGB 3,3,3 which is quite good (only professional CRTs are able to give the difference between RGB 0,0,0 and 1,1,1, or with LCD at full brightness).

After that bit of testing I did the compromise of having the brigthness at 40 which allows me to see the change in blacks at RGB 6,6,6.

White Level
I havn't done a white level callibration yet, but I will try that tonight.

Backlight Bleeding
The backlight has very little bleeding, only a small amount in the upper right and lower corners. Even then its only noticeable on an entirely black screen. What I did notice though is that the bleeding in the lower right looked a little purple.

When watching a 2:3 movie, the backlight bleeding is NOT noticeable in the upper and lower letterboxes.



Color Temperature
By default the color temperature is too cold. Dell does not give exact values for what the color temperature is, just normal, warm, cold. Odly enough it has both a Mac and Windows color temperature. The MAC color temperature (which it was set to by default) is colder than the Windows settings.

After calibration of the display the colors are much warmer

Color Reproduction
As expected, the color reproduction on the 2407WFP-HC is great. I looked through some of my high res digital photographs and all of them looked superb. How accurate are the colors? Honestly I can't tell you because my coloromiter does not give the delta values of all the colors. I would have to spend another 350 dollars on a Lacie Blue Eye Pro 2 for that, which I would like to get, but since I dont make a living out of photography, wont be happening anytime soon.

Viewing Angles
The viewing angles on the 2407WFP-HC are very good, but not as good as on my Viewsonic VP930B. I noticed the colors wash out a little when looking at the display from the right side. That said, the overal color and gamma distortion at wide viewing angles is minimal and will only be an issue if you do photo editing at 170 degree viewing angles. And if you do that, someone should smack you upside the head.


OSD
The OSD on the dell is great. Its MUCH better than the ghetto OSD that Viewsonic used on the VP930B. It gives you just about every option you could think of and if you go into the maintinence menu (power down display, hold down "menu" and "+" while powering on and then press "-") you have even more options. I will take a picture of the maintinence menu in the next few days.

Picture In Picture
PIP and PBP works well, but is kinda confusing to get working right the first time. Alas it seems that VGA/DVI PIP is still not working which is a real shame. No surfing the net while playing Xbox 360 for me. I havnt had time to test the image quality of the PIP inputs, but I can say that PBP does not look very good due to the squishing (I had the resolution at 1920x1200 and it squished it down to a normal aspect ratio).

Ghosting
Ghosting is not noticeable at all in anything i viewed. I played some Halo, Gears of War, and watched some movies; Both HD-DVD and regular dvd. At no time did I notice any ghosting. I am not as sensitive to it as some people are, but I did not notice anything.

Input LAG
While I did not measure the input lag, there was no percievable input lag with the 2407WFP-HC

The Stand
The stand is very sturdy, but there is some play in the mouting mechanism between the stand and the panel. This is due to the quick release feature of the LCD. Personally, I would prefer to have the LCD hard mounted to the base, but its not up to me. While shaking my desk the display wobbled a little but settled down quickly.

The height adjustment works great, allowing the display to get less than 1 inch off the surface of the desk and up to 5.5 inches (bottom edge of monitor). Lifting the display up is completely effortless unless you lower the display to the bottom where it locks in place. To be honest, even my 6'4" friend found the 5.5 inches to be stupidly high and is only useful for rotating the dispaly into portrait mode.

The swivel works great and is very smooth, but sadly it lacks a lock point in the center to tell you where the display should be rotated for dead center. I would love it if it had this feature, but its not the end of the world.

Rotating the screen into portrait mode is a little tricky, but can be done relatively quickly one you get the hang if it. The problem is that the display does not raise up high enough to be able to roate it the whole 90 dgrees. It makes it about 80 degrees before corner hits the desk. The solution is to tilt the display backwards a bit (it has a front back pivot feauture) while rotating it. While in portrait mode the LCD looks 9 feet tall and is kinda rediculous. A side note: It appears that dell does not include software to auto-rotate the display into portrait mode. Personally, I dont care, but some may be upset about this.

I think that about sums up my mini-review.


If anyone is interested in the calibration profile for the 2407WFP-HC, just hit me up on PM and I will email it to you.

[MaxxxRacer]

Soulburner, do you think high-performance P-MVA or IPS based widescreen 20"+ widescreen LCDs will become more common in the near future, or should I expect TN domination with advances in TN tech? That Acer AL2051W P-MVA panel for under $200 makes me wonder if there are any other upcoming 20-23" non-TN panels in the $200-350 pricerange. I'd pick it up in a second if it was a 6ms MVA or IPS panel.


I doubt TN will ever dominate the high end. No mater what you do to them they are still 6bit panels with horrid viewing angles. Until there is some new technology, S-IPS will be the ultra high end.

On a side note, 99% of laptop displays are TN. Only the 20 inchers are VA based.

[Soulburner]

Nice quick-review Maxx, but one question:
Input LAG
While I did not measure the input lag, there was no percievable input lag with the 2407WFP-HC
Which mouse are you using? That makes all the difference.

I would agree on most of the things being similar on the BenQ FP241W with the exception that it has a more solid stand, probably the most solid of any LCD I have seen. It doesn't look like it in the pictures but...it weighs a ton for its size. It's density and shape ensure your monitor is staying put. Plus the adjustability is just awesome.

Other than that, no ghosting that I can see, great colors, brightness and contrast after calibration, though I had to turn the brightness down a few notches because it is just too bright. Viewing angle is good but some slight color/gamma shifting is noticeable from size to side about 45 degrees out.

[MaxxxRacer]

Nice quick-review Maxx, but one question:

Which mouse are you using? That makes all the difference.

I use an old logitech dual sensor optical mouse. Its a usb mouse but on I have it on the PS2 port as I dont like to have my input devices on the USB bus.


One thing I did notice is that when the screen moves real fast (playing CS:S) there is some tearing (from refresh rate). When I get home I will turn up the refresh rate and see what happens. Hopefully it goes away. I never had this issue with my VP930B. It MIGHT also be a framerate issue as my FPS in CS:S was around 50 or lower at 1920x1200.

Oh, I do have one huge complaint with the monitor. The included USB uplink cable is WAY WAY WAY too short. I have my computer off to the side and the USB cable doesnt reach. The DVI cable was also too short, but I just used the monster DVI cable that Viewsonic included with the VP930B.

[rodman]

MaxxxRacer, do you notice any image blurring during fast paced games like FEAR or Need for Speed carbon ect..

If you notice image tearing enable Vsync, thats what it's there for;)

[Soulburner]

I assume he is already using VSync, its a requirement on these monitors.

[qgshadow]

Hi guys, i am currently looking for a good lcd monitor 20-22 inch widescreen , Around 600$CND tax in or maybe more(it depends if theres a big gap of quality for little money:P) . currently i use a sony g520 excellent crt monitor but i think i need a change now, some nice widescreen would be great :P

thanks for all your help.

Congrats for that thread!!:up:

[Soulburner]

For 20" go for the NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2. Supposedly the only 20" with an AS-IPS panel.

For 22" you will have to settle for a TN panel but you want the LG Flatron L226WTQ/L226WTY in that case.

[undefeatedone]

Hey guys,

how's this DoubleSight DS-240WB look?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185004

It has an s-pca panel, any good? Says its 6MS response time - how do you think it fares against the NEC 20WMGX2? I can get it for about $480.

[adamsleath]

never heard of s-pca
s-pva...
or double sight
the 20gx2 sh1ts all over most other panels - it just does very well in all the 'tests' - something to do with the AS-IPS type tech and NEC quality build.
if u want a cheap 24" then take a punt at yr own risk. :hehe:

[Soulburner]

I'd like to mention something for potential FP241W buyers.

This monitor is nearly perfect - and I mean it really. No ghosting that I can see, excellent input response from my Deathadder, great color after calibration, the best input and scaling options of any LCD on the market today and one of the most solid, adjustable stands you can get.

Now for my only real gripe with the monitor - the coating on the screen itself. It has an anti-glare coating which is both good and bad. If you have experience with these you will know how they can make the screen look "hazy" if there is no light coming through, for example in dark scenes. This can make blacks look not so black, even though they are from the panel. The coating on the screen gives off an odd look to the monitor. This isn't a problem normally and isn't noticeable the vast majority of the time you are at the monitor. It's when I creep around in Doom 3 or enter a dark dungeon in Titan Quest that the anti-glare coating shows itself.

I wouldn't let it stop you from buying though - Instead of writing a long review of all the pros of this monitor I'll simply write about its one possible flaw. It's really the only thing I can find that I don't like, and that is excellent considering I almost always find the flaws in a piece of hardware. Consider all the things the other 24 inchers do wrong and you really can't complain.

If they had gone with a glossy finish instead though, there is the glare issue, though you can get more contrast out of the screen. There are tradeoffs either way. Personally I think the coating on my Sceptre 22" x22-wg Gamer was the best. I am not sure what it was but it wasn't glossy or anti-glare, so it didn't look hazy nor did it glare.

[generalpetres]

need help choosing i currently have a 2407fpw dell monitor and do cad work but am going to be upgrading to a new comp soon and would like a larger monitor. I was thinking of either getting another 2407 or two or a lcd tv monitor and running it at 1920*1080p.

[Soulburner]

Larger size or resolution?

Consider the Dell 3007.

[voltaire2030]

I just bought my Dell 2407WFP-HC today :D

Will post some comments when I get my hands on it !

How long, did you wait to received it ?

[generalpetres]

see for the price of the 30 inch dell i can get two 2407 monitors and have 3 total for hell of a lot more realistate then the 30 and yes i was considering the 30 but for the money 2 24 just seem more worth it. My 2407 doesnt have any problems that i know of as far as lag or screen issues in css other than the fragmentation that is due to my gpu needing to be rmaed hehe. as for the stand on the dell the monitor wont tip over unless your really trying to make it good solid stand imo. thing i really like about my 24 vs the 30 is i can do pip or pnp with video sources like tv etc and the 30 cannot cause it doesnt have the inputs cause if it did it would be a competitor with the 30 in lcd tvs on the market.

[Gorod]

Are there any reviews about Dell 3007WFP-HC guys ? Is this a newer model ? Finaly decided and ordered one 10 min ago :D :banana3: :)

Cant wait to see Crysis on that thing :shocked: :confused2

Edit : nvm , found one :) :

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/Dell_UltraSharp_3007WFPHC__92_Color_Gamut_30_Inch_ LCD/

[shimmishim]

@gorod - very nice! :D

i'm still on a 20 inch 2001fp :(

i've been thinking about upgrading to a 24 inch.

anyone know much about this one?
it's on sale this week at bestbuy and was posted by that bestbuy empoyee

it's a westinghouse 24 inch

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8268475&st=8268475&type=product&id=1170290375980

thanks!

if not a good one, can someone recommend a decent one in the 400-500 range?

[generalpetres]

dont bother with the westinghouse 24 if you want a good monitor go with the dell 24 or the samsung both are great monitors and i woulndt trade my dell for any other monitor except a larger 30. i mean the fact i can work on my comp and watch tv in pip is more than worth the price. i get no ghosting or lag of any kinda colors are great and has a very nice on screen menu system. you wont be sorry you bought the dell 24 and it comes with 3 year warrenty and can get 5 year for extra 50 you cant go wrong their.

[Gorod]

@gorod - very nice! :D



My 30" Dell just arrived :D
ET:QW feel a litle bit laggy now @ 2560x1600 with no AA and 8800GTX SLI and C2D @ 3.8GHz :( That thing needs so much GPU power its not even funny :shocked: I guess i'l have to sell GTX's and get Ultra's now :mad:
Movies and 2D look great , especialy High Def. 1080P trailers :)

Thats my first LCD screen btw and i must say i miss my old Sony G520 21" CRT already . Maybe one day LCD will come close to CRT but for now it still too far from the quality a good CRT can offer :rolleyes:
Especialy games like Doom3 and ET:QW , STALKER and others with lost of dark areas and shadows ... Oh well , still a very nice screen just feels weird after CRT maybe i'l get used to it eventualy :)

[xlink]

My 30" Dell just arrived :D
ET:QW feel a litle bit laggy now @ 2560x1600 with no AA and 8800GTX SLI and C2D @ 3.8GHz :( That thing needs so much GPU power its not even funny :shocked: I guess i'l have to sell GTX's and get Ultra's now :mad:
Movies and 2D look great , especialy High Def. 1080P trailers :)

Thats my first LCD screen btw and i must say i miss my old Sony G520 21" CRT already . Maybe one day LCD will come close to CRT but for now it still too far from the quality a good CRT can offer :rolleyes:
Especialy games like Doom3 and ET:QW , STALKER and others with lost of dark areas and shadows ... Oh well , still a very nice screen just feels weird after CRT maybe i'l get used to it eventualy :)

you're not going to be getting much more out of the ultra's than the GTXes.

I'd just wait it out for the next gen of video cards.

[Gorod]

xlink i guess you right about that , +10-15% probably wont make whole lot of a difference :(

[xlink]

xlink i guess you right about that , +10-15% probably wont make whole lot of a difference :(

it would be closer to 5% if even that.
http://hwbot.org/quickSearch.do?hardwareId=GPU_1183

[generalpetres]

any one know where to find a lcd stand for 3 24 dell monitors. i would use just the stands they came with but i would rather a all in one stand helps clean up teh look and clutter on teh desk. o and if i do find one i might sell my monitor stands.