Newb Builder Here [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

Necron99

08-08-2005, 07:16 PM

I just want to get some opinions on the parts I'm going to buy. I'm a new builder and this forum seems like it has alot more people that know what they're doing than another forum I've been visiting.

First I have to say that I'm on a budget. I got 1000$ to work with. I've already bought my monitor and ordered my case which is going to be delievered to me tomorrow and its the Thermaltake Xaser II 6000a which I bought for 67$ here (http://www.buyaib.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6387&strVarSel=1247&strCompare=)
I think it's a good price for an all aluminum chassis. I found it via pricewatch.com. Originally I was going to buy the 5000a which was made of steel but after looking around on the site I found that 6000a was at the same price and its specs was better.

So now all I have left to do is buy all the hardware :) Considering I won't be buying another computer for a while I really want this system to last as much as possible, that is why I've chosen to buy the 7800 GTX. I was planning to buy a 6800 GT and buy a nicer motherboard [asus-a8n sli deluxe] and nicer processor [3500+ Venice] (nicer than the ones I'm buying with the 7800 GTX) to maybe have a chance to upgrade later to dual 6800 GT in Sli mode. But after thinking about it I decided that saving on my mobo, cpu, and excluding Logitech 518mx, dvd-rw, and speakers altogether I could build a stronger base for my system and buy those other less important parts later.

1. For the motherboard I was considering Abit AN8-Ultra. 125$
2. For the processor a 3000+ Venice to which I hoped to overclock to at least 2.2Ghz, the supposed sweat spot for the 7800GTX to run well. 146$
3. Power supply: Aspire 520watts 55$ here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817148008)
4. Hard Drive - Hitachi 80GB SATA II 55$ here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145082)
5. RAM - Patriot 1GB 2x512 kit (2.3.2.5 -T1) 123$
here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220006)
6. 7800 GTX (manufacturer undecided)

That'll wrap up my hardware. I'd just like to know if I'm going to run into any problems there and some better suggestions if anyone has any. The thing I'm most concerned about it the motherbaord. I don't know if I'm making the right choice there. I've always read about Abit since the NF7-S days I just by reading alot I knew they had one of the best boards for Socket A. I don't know if that quality has carried over onto the AN8-Ultra. Also I'm on a very strick budget so any suggestions for diffrent parts cannot deviate on price. Thanks.

IYP

08-08-2005, 07:33 PM

Major_A

08-08-2005, 08:13 PM

My personal opinion is to stay away from Abit. I know they make great products but my AV8 is a POS. I guess I shouldn't say that unfairly since the problem I have with it is lack of overclocking. On top of that Abit can't seem to make a decent BIOS for the poor board.

My recommendations:
DFI Lan Party UT nF4-D = $112 (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=110799&AFFIL=pricewatch&NR=1)
If you feel adventurous you might try to unlock the SLi option using the pencil mod.
Pencil mod (http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/AMD/120)

The processor you listed is fine. I have the 3000+ Winchester and it is running at 2.3Ghz (thanks Abit) with the stock voltage.

I would personally get a different power supply. I have heard lots about Aspire supplies and little to none of those comments were good.
ENERMAX Whisper II = $82.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103464)

The RAM is fine but, consider this. You could buy value RAM run a divider set to run at 333/PC2700, overclock your CPU to 250Mhz FSB and you are back at 400/PC3200. On top of the value RAM some people are getting good sticks running at 2-2-2-5 with a little voltage. Also if you are a gamer, which I think you are since you are buying a 7800GTX, I would recommend you get a 2X1GB kit if all possible. When I play BF2, and more recently the F.E.A.R. SP demo they take forever to unload from my pagefile after I close them.

Never pay more than $.50 a GB for a HDD. If you look around you can find good deals on them from Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, etc.. but with a mail in rebate. On top of that the SATA II disk you listed shows little to no real world performance difference over a regular SATA/IDE drive.

Like the previous poster mentioned I would look at the XFX card. However looking on newegg I don't think the extra 40Mhz on the core and 50Mhz on the memory is worth $50 to me.
XFX 7800GTX 450/1250 = $504 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150100)

Turok

08-08-2005, 08:13 PM

XFX sells a 7800 @ 490/1300....its good to know that youll get at least tose OCs....but there seems to be alot of headroom on these cards.....if you have an extra 70$ for ram consider some muskin redline XP4000....as for the MoBo try your hand with a DFI SLI-DR if your gunna run SATA II

I wouldnt buy a 7800 GTX right now.
nVidia is releasing the 7800 GT soon, and ATi is starting production on the r520.
I would wait a bit to see how these cards show up, not to mention that prices could lower a lot.

If you are planning to run SLI, get a DFI nF4 SLI-DR.
If you think you cant afford SLI for a long time, get a DFI nF4 Ultra-D
Both SLI-DR and Ultra-D have SATA II slots.

About the ram, it depends on what you want your PC to do.
*If you plan on OCing, some OCD VX or a pair of Muskin Redline is a must.
*If you plan to game on this machean, you wont notice a big difference between a value ram or some low latency ram. For gaming, its more important audio and video quality.
*If you are going to use this PC for simple applications, and surfing the net, a mid-range card, some value ram, and a dual-core could set you up. You may have money for other things like a fast HDD (Hard Drive) to give you those fast load times.

Necron99

08-08-2005, 11:22 PM

It's hard trying to understand all these things at once. The AN8-Ultra by Abit supports 4xSATA II it says on the specs, but also says " PATA: 2x133 up to 4 devices". Now what does this mean? Does it mean I can use either SATA II or ATA 133 HD's with it? I don't really get it. So I need to learn what PATA, SATA, and SATA raid are.

That pencil mod looks cool. That's very nice tha all you have to do is connect those 2 little things and you have yourself an SLi board. I don't see how a pencil or a pen gets them connected though.

I'll probably go for the Ultra-D DFI board, although alot of reviews on Newegg warn that it's not a board for newbies. And the AN8-Ultra has only 3 reviews on Newegg, that usually isn't a very good sign of its popularity.

For the RAM yeah I'm a noob there. YOu're saying that Value Ram, like Corsair Value select would do the same thing as the Patriot that I listed? As far as dividers go I pretty much know nothing about that :/ I do plan to overclock and I figured that Patriot ram would be good enough to get me at least 2.2GHZ on my processor. I've had the same computer for 5 years so this is going to be my first attempt at building.

Is SATA II really necessary? From what I've read HD's transfer from 50-150 mbs (or something) so I don't really understand what 3.0 Gb/S is worth when they can't reach those speeds anyway. Arg.

Major_A

08-08-2005, 11:55 PM

A.It's hard trying to understand all these things at once. The AN8-Ultra by Abit supports 4xSATA II it says on the specs, but also says " PATA: 2x133 up to 4 devices". Now what does this mean? Does it mean I can use either SATA II or ATA 133 HD's with it? I don't really get it. So I need to learn what PATA, SATA, and SATA raid are.

B.That pencil mod looks cool. That's very nice tha all you have to do is connect those 2 little things and you have yourself an SLi board. I don't see how a pencil or a pen gets them connected though.

C.I'll probably go for the Ultra-D DFI board, although alot of reviews on Newegg warn that it's not a board for newbies. And the AN8-Ultra has only 3 reviews on Newegg, that usually isn't a very good sign of its popularity.

D.For the RAM yeah I'm a noob there. YOu're saying that Value Ram, like Corsair Value select would do the same thing as the Patriot that I listed? As far as dividers go I pretty much know nothing about that :/ I do plan to overclock and I figured that Patriot ram would be good enough to get me at least 2.2GHZ on my processor. I've had the same computer for 5 years so this is going to be my first attempt at building.

E.Is SATA II really necessary? From what I've read HD's transfer from 50-150 mbs (or something) so I don't really understand what 3.0 Gb/S is worth when they can't reach those speeds anyway. Arg.
A. 4X ATA drives are either HDDs and/or optical drives (ie...CD/DVD burner). Yes you can use any type of SATA or PATA hard drive you want.

B. It has to do with the conductivity of the pencil. Some people use a rear window defrost kit instead.

C. I don't own one so I can't comment directly. But from reading here and other places the most problems seem be because of a buggy BIOS. The ABIT is a new board, they showed them at Cebit this year so they are probably just becoming available to buy, hence not a lot of reviews.

D. RAM Divider explained (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=149717)

E. That's what I said originally there is virtually no real world performance gains.

Necron99

08-08-2005, 11:56 PM

Well it looks like the Ultra-D is the way to go, again. (i've been going in circles with configurations) the question now is what RAM do I get. I guess this is important because a nice overclock will be important in getting the 2.2 ghz breakpoint. The RAM I picked wouldn't be good? I just figured it would be best because it has the tightest timings than anything else in the price range. I've read that DFI boards like OCZ ram. There was some OCZ ram (2.3.3.6) with copper heatspreaders that I was considering but the they cost about the same as the Patriot RAM I wanted to get but the Patriot had tighter timings. (2.3.2.5 T1) What's a good RAM to get an OC from but that's isn't expensive. (I do ask alot for little don't I) bang for buck cheapskate I am, guy on a budget has got to do what a guy on a budget has to do :)

Major_A

08-09-2005, 12:06 AM

Necron99

08-09-2005, 12:11 AM

A. 4X ATA drives are either HDDs and/or optical drives (ie...CD/DVD burner). Yes you can use any type of SATA or PATA hard drive you want.

B. It has to do with the conductivity of the pencil. Some people use a rear window defrost kit instead.

C. I don't own one so I can't comment directly. But from reading here and other places the most problems seem be because of a buggy BIOS. The ABIT is a new board, they showed them at Cebit this year so they are probably just becoming available to buy, hence not a lot of reviews.

D. RAM Divider explained (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=149717)

E. That's what I said originally there is virtually no real world performance gains.

A. Thanks that clears up alot

B. Rear.. window.. defroster.. kit? That's even more confusing than the pencil and pen. If I'm understanding this correctly the goal is to connect the two 'nodes' right? Couldn't you just solder those together with a soldering kit?

C. Cool I'll probably buy my mobo, cpu, ram from MonarchComputer. They pre-test combos and install the latest bios, ram compatability.

D. k.

E. dah... SATA II board can run Sata/ATA 150?

Necron99

08-09-2005, 12:19 AM

This is what RAM I have Corsair XMS PC3200 2-3-3-6 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145450).

I set my RAM to run at PC2700/166/333 (all mean the same thing, just different ways of representing the value) in the BIOS and overclocked from there. Here is a shot of my FSB and where my RAM is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/ssb2121/th_CPUZ_RAM.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/ssb2121/CPUZ_RAM.jpg)

Hm CPU/11 FSB? 209mhz ^^ that would be the middle representation from your first figure right? "PC2700/166/333". I still got alot to learn about ram and how it works in corilation to the processor.

turtle

08-09-2005, 02:58 AM

Whatever you decide on amigo, we'll be here to help you.

What i'd do with a grand for:

1. mobo: DFI ultra-d nf4 (easy mod to SLI-D) ($129)
2. cpu: 3000+ venice ($138)
3. psu: OCZ powerstream 520w ($124)
4. HDD: hitachi 250gb SATAII ($124)
5. ram: OCZ rev2 plat pc3200 ($170)
6. gfx: 6800gt (~$300 depending on manufac)
_______________________________________
$985

;)

The 6800gt isn't going to depreciate that fast either, as it's a good bargain of a card, even compared to the higher-end nvidia ones. The chunk of money it is less allows so much more wiggle room in other parts where it's worth it. It also allows you to go SLI later if you want if you find a cheap 6800gt down the road...or you can always sell it for a minimal loss when the dust clears from the R5xx series launch and the 7800gt/gtx/u, and grab one of those as an upgrade...probably for MUCH LESS than what you would pay for a GTX at this moment.

Necron99

08-09-2005, 10:49 AM

Dang Dang Dang. This is like the senario I was in before which was sacrificing the 7800 gtx for all around better parts for my system. That beefy hard drive looks nice, that OCZ rev 2 looks nice, that 124$ power supply looks nice. But I won't have a 7800 GTX :(. I know I should probably go for your deal because the base of my system will be much stronger and overclockable especially with that nice RAM and since I'm depending on a nice overclock it might be the smartest thing to do. But spending 124$ on a power supply hurts my sensibilities arg. You're probably right about the video card too. I know ATI is gonna come out with something strong. They've been out of the game since the 6000 series for nVidia have been out but the x850 XT PE has been quietly kicking everything butt until the 7800 GTX came out. I'm guessing a 32 pipeline card is gonna be the next step for ATI and I know they can't make a card that's 700$, not if they plan to make it mainstream. I guess I should take it slow and steady. The only problem is I don't know if I'm going to be able to afford a new card once they come out. I think you might be right though.

[XC] leviathan18

08-09-2005, 11:06 AM

ok dfi all the way fogert about asus abit maybe msi

3000 or 3200 venice
1gb of plat rev 2 ocz
250gb or 160gb sata II hitachi ncq when you have little more money you can put anothe equal and raid 0 them and you will see better perfomance
ocz modstream or antec a little bit cheaper and fine psu
Nvidia is going to lower the 6800gt price and this video card is nice video card but if you want get a 6600gt save the money sell the 6600gt and buy the 7800gtx

Major_A

08-09-2005, 11:53 AM

Hm CPU/11 FSB? 209mhz ^^ that would be the middle representation from your first figure right? "PC2700/166/333". I still got alot to learn about ram and how it works in corilation to the processor.
The 209 is what my RAM is running at. If it set the FSB to 250 it would be at 200. PC3200 is represented as 200/400, so I am actually running faster than what the RAM is rated for. That Enermax I listed is a good power supply, 33A on the 12V rail is over what AMD recommends for an A64 setup. Don't get an OCZ PSU, they are rebranded Tagan supplies, as far as I can tell (look familiar?) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817101516). If you really want to go with the 7800GTX you can do it with your budget.

Necron99

08-09-2005, 12:58 PM

Sigh, what to do what to do. The mobo/cpu combo's from MonarchComputer can either come with stock fans or "amd certified fans". The configuration for with the fan they provide is slightly cheaper but I would'nt know if it was better. Here is a link to the fan they provide (if you choose). Provided Fan (with oem chip) (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=130122) Of course a down side to this is that I don't think that the chip will come with the boxed warranty that comes when you buy the combo with the retail box/cpu fan. Which route for this?

IYP

08-09-2005, 02:34 PM

i was going to take that route but i ended up buying the proc and mobo and meme seperatly...they dident have mushkin listed for the ram...zip zoom fly had a better price on the retail proc then monarch had on the OEM....zip zoom fly came very highly reccommended by a friend so i went that route...all i ended up getting from monarch was the case

[XC] leviathan18

08-09-2005, 03:17 PM

yeah IYP Zip Zoom Fly is very good i bought twice there first time my whole rig second time hdd fans and everything they are fast

IYP

08-09-2005, 03:40 PM

very good to know.... (btw you were the friend tht reccomended it in the first place :D)

turtle

08-09-2005, 08:17 PM

Yep. ZZF is a great place. I've bought a few things from there in the past and they were the lowest price, very fast with free 2nd day shipping, always a plus. I'd put them right up there with the egg and monarch, whom I have also ordered from and been quite happy. Cheifvalue as well. All good prices, and all good stores from my dealings.

As for the power supply questions. I've also heard they are relabled tagans..but tagans don't have the easy rail adjustment nobs on the outside, if rail adjustment at all once you you void the warranty by opening it and getting the superglue off the pots. To me having a psu with adjustable pots is something everyone should have...also it has all the connectors you need for now and in the future. There may definately be better options for the price range, I just pulled that off the top of my head as it's highly regarded. I love my forton as it's cheap + brick solid with adjustable pots...but it's only 20pin, and I wouldn't suggest that anyone building a new system...But buying a good quality psu is more important than you think. It helps stability as well as possible overclocks. Don't buy an aspire, lol...I have one as my second psu in my CM Stacker that I have from my old xp-m system that had it included with an aspire case, and it just powers my exos and fans, as the one I have has a really crappy 3.3v rail...there stuff is relabled Foxconn and Deer (as aspire is primarily a case builder, and include power supplies relabled by them with their cases, but also sell the psus seperately..same with fans), which is just icky.

About the cpu...If I were you, i'd personally just buy the PIB whereever it's cheapest. The warranty is better than oem, and it comes with a hsf...which you can also upgrade later if you want. If you want something cheap right away, I suggest something like the xp90 or freezer64, both which are ~$30 but the xp90 you will need to buy a fan. When looking at the review below be sure to notice the fan used on the xp90 in the comparison. Both can comfortabley handle a 3000+ at the top voltage you'd run it at.

http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=arcticcf64

Lithan

08-09-2005, 08:29 PM

Be aware that the board Major_A linked to is NOT the Ultra-D (It's the regular D) and as such wont be moddable into SLI

My recommendations?

DFI nf4 ultra D $130
2x 1024 $225 (I haven't really looked but I'd just look for a good brand with the tightest stock timings you can find cheaply)
Venice 3000+
Spring for a seagate 160gb
7800GTX

Now why 2x1024 cheap stuff instead of 2x512 good stuff? Timings really dont do All that much for you except in benches and a few apps. And since you plan to keep the rig awhile (maybe run Dual SLI 7800gtx someday) 2gigs now will pay off later. Also, since you aren't familiar with system building/tweaking, trying to run 2x512 at Low latencies in the DFI will drive you crazy. Better to just get cheap stuff and run it 2t with the most overclock you can stably get out of it (you'll be using a divider almost certainly, but it wont hurt performance too terribly).

Venice 3000+ will get you to 2200mhz EASILY. 2.5-2.6ghz shouldn't be out of the question for you even.

Just my opinions based on what you've explained your situation to be.

turtle

08-09-2005, 08:39 PM

I agree whole-heartedly on not buying LL ram like redline or VX if you're not a hardcore tweaker, as they are a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: to work with even if you DO know what you're doing...That's why I suggested tccx. 2GB will indeed be useful in the future, it just didn't seem to fit into the budget...there's always room to upgrade later.

Turok

08-09-2005, 09:10 PM

A. Thanks that clears up alot

B. Rear.. window.. defroster.. kit? That's even more confusing than the pencil and pen. If I'm understanding this correctly the goal is to connect the two 'nodes' right? Couldn't you just solder those together with a soldering kit?

C. Cool I'll probably buy my mobo, cpu, ram from MonarchComputer. They pre-test combos and install the latest bios, ram compatability.

D. k.

E. dah... SATA II board can run Sata/ATA 150?

B. DO NOT SOLDER THE CHIPSET.
First off, its a verry delicate piece of hardware and should not be tampered with stuff like that.
Second thing is that it could make it hard to put back the chipset heatsink if the welded piece is higher than the die
Third thing could be less hassle. Connecting those two things just gives an instruction to the chipset to unlock nF4 SLi capabilities. You just need a bit of pencil chalk to make a bit of conductivity and unlock the chipset.

BTW, even tho the DFI nF4 line is for more experienced people, you can get it and learn from it. Its a good start to know the different things a mobo can do, since it has a lot of BIOS options, OCing capabilities, and tweaks to be discovered :hehe:

Before you start buying without thinking, wait for at least the 7800 GT to come out.
The r520 and the X-Fi sound cards are soon to follow, so its your decision if you are willing to wait a little more for prices drops or if you want the new stuff too.

Lithan

08-09-2005, 09:12 PM

B. DO NOT SOLDER THE CHIPSET.
First off, its a verry delicate piece of hardware and should not be tampered with stuff like that.
Second thing is that it could make it hard to put back the chipset heatsink if the welded piece is higher than the die
Third thing could be less hassle. Connecting those two things just gives an instruction to the chipset to unlock nF4 SLi capabilities. You just need a bit of pencil chalk to make a bit of conductivity and unlock the chipset.

BTW, even tho the DFI nF4 line is for more experienced people, you can get it and learn from it. Its a good start to know the different things a mobo can do, since it has a lot of BIOS options, OCing capabilities, and tweaks to be discovered :hehe:

Before you start buying without thinking, wait for at least the 7800 GT to come out.
The r520 and the X-Fi sound cards are soon to follow, so its your decision if you are willing to wait a little more for prices drops or if you want the new stuff too.

Actually I've looked at my chipset and it's a pretty easy solder mod if you are good with the iron. I wouldn't expect it would be any risk for me to do. I just didn't do it because I don't need SLI right now. But if you aren't familiar with a soldering iron, definately dont try it. Just use a conductive pen.

Necron99

08-11-2005, 02:30 PM

OMG 7800 GT? Is this thing supposed to be faster than the GTX? And for $419?!?! Who what where when why!? Here it is! I'm sure you guys are aware of it already though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150108

I was recommended this power supply by FSP Group (Fortron). It's 450 watts but its 'dual 12v rail' which I don't know how significant that is and if will be powerful enough to power my rig. Also it fits my budget and maybe even moreso now that the 7800 GT has come out at a very attractive 419$ price range (compared to 500$ for the GTX).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954

About the conductive pen. Is that a pen that actually has conductive 'ink' or something? I've never heard of that.

Also the regular NF4-D is not SLi moddable? I understood it was but I guess not. To tell you the truth I don't plan on buying a second 7800 anytime soon so I'm not even concerned about that right now :D If the NF4-D is not moddable that will be just fine, the question now will be if the NF4-D will be the best mobo for me (a newbie builder) who needs at least a 2.2 overclock from a 3000+ Venice.

I got my case already its pretty sweet. Thermaltake Xaser II 6000a Aluminum chassis. It came with 5 case fans which suprised me. I just can't wait to start playing all the great games out there. :woot:

Turok

08-11-2005, 02:44 PM

Necron99

08-11-2005, 02:53 PM

How much do you think that r520 is gonna cost? Wow after nVidia has been riding the high crest of performance it would really worry me to go for an ATI card, like really worry me. But thinking of the 9800 Pro (in its day) and the x850LX PE it reminds me that ATi is no slouch. Perhaps nVidia is a better innovator. Arg I hope it comes out soon because I'll be ready to order in about 2 a week or two.

Also what ways are there to get a 7800 GTX for under 500$? I know newegg is selling an MSI (oem) version that is 479$ and I think the only diffrence is that the box is white, with no graphics on it.

Major_A

08-11-2005, 03:10 PM

Being the optimist I am (sarcasm) ATi's card won't be available to buy until November/December in limited quantities.

I also like how everyone is telling you to go with a Crossfire board. The "Master" cards are more expensive than the regular card so this will mean the setup will be expensive as hell. Besides that Crossfire hasn't exactly proven itself in any form or fashion, yes I've seen the Anandtech preview, but that means little to nothing yet.

[XC] leviathan18

08-11-2005, 03:15 PM

my recomendations now are this 4 everyone dont spend a lot of money in the mobo cpu and ram cuz m2 is coming

Necron99

08-11-2005, 03:19 PM

Someone recommended 2x1024 of cheap ram over 2x512 of higher quality ram. Would this be better? I heard that 1024 sticks are not good for a reason I'm not aware of.

Eh nevermind I don't think I could go this route anyway.

turtle

08-11-2005, 03:37 PM

They usually, for the most part, don't clock very well. When you buy a 1024mb stick, there a bigger chance that one of those chips won't clock well, and as you probably already know, it only takes one chip to cause instabililty. Of course you can buy 2x1gb sticks and run a divider to maintain the higher HTT to maintain a good overclock to your cpu, but 1:1 tccx, or LL ram (bh-5,utt) with a divider will give much better performance in most cases. If you're going to buy a cheap cpu like a 3000+, i'd personally buy a 1gb set that will allow you to run a high 1:1 fsb, that should give the best performance, and nice overclock to your cpu (perhaps from 1.8 all the way up to 2.7+). That being said, there are good 2GB kits out there (like tracer) that do seem good, but they cost an arm and a leg. If you're spending that set budget, i'd hold off and do the upgrade to 2gb later, either through 2x1gb sticks or just adding another good 2x512mb kit and running at 2T.

2gb is the future as some games (MMORPG's, BF2) are starting to use it in some situations. Personally though I think it isn't something that should be first priority. At this point in time I think faster ram is more benefitial than more ram in most apps.

Necron99

08-11-2005, 03:48 PM

391$ for BFG OC 7800 GT from DELL. Hmmm

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0513443

Necron99

08-11-2005, 04:28 PM

Guys what's the diffrence between this card (MSI 7800 GTX [lite]) and a regular 7800 GTX? What exactly is it missing?

Sorry didn't provide link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127187

Turok

08-11-2005, 04:33 PM

If you want to run the highest settings on F.E.A.R. and AoE3, 2Gb is a must. Otherwise you may experience a bit of hardware lag when new stuff is loaded to your ram and the space is limited

Turok

08-11-2005, 04:34 PM

Guys what's the diffrence between this card (MSI 7800 GTX [lite]) and a regular 7800 GTX? What exactly is it missing?

Some 7800 GTX are clocked higher than others.
Some companies have like 2 or 3 versions of the same 7800 GTX, but the difference is the GPU and memory speed

[XC] leviathan18

08-11-2005, 04:38 PM

F E A R is memory hungry cuz i think they didnt know how to make that engine :S is pretty good but i think they had some problems making the graphic engine and the physics engine not so power hungry

Turok

08-11-2005, 05:09 PM

F E A R is memory hungry cuz i think they didnt know how to make that engine :S is pretty good but i think they had some problems making the graphic engine and the physics engine not so power hungry

Maybe their texture compression method sucks.
Im guessing that max settings is as power hungry as Doom3 at Ultra High compared to High, and the only difference is that high is compressed and Ultra High has no compression.
The difference is really minor between high and Ultra High in Doom 3
Not only do you need like 2Gb of ram, but you may also need 512mb of video ram.

Necron99

08-11-2005, 06:07 PM

Some 7800 GTX are clocked higher than others.
Some companies have like 2 or 3 versions of the same 7800 GTX, but the difference is the GPU and memory speed

Sorry I forgot to provide a link to what I was referring too. Here is the 7800 GTX (lite)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127187

Also about the 2gb memory. I think I'm gonna start out with some quality OCZ rev. 2 platinum ram 2x512. I'll probably just be playing Quake 3 (lol) and any games that come with the bundles. The MonarchComputers cpu/mobo combo comes with Far Cry and Half Life 2 so I'll probably be set with that for a while. Then later on if I choose to move up to BF2 and F.E.A.R I'll get another stick of 512 or 2x512 even. :)

I still need an opinion on this psu. It's a Fortron with dual 12v rails. I need to know if it is at least better than the 520watt Aspire.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954

Turok

08-11-2005, 07:00 PM

Sorry I forgot to provide a link to what I was referring too. Here is the 7800 GTX (lite)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127187

Also about the 2gb memory. I think I'm gonna start out with some quality OCZ rev. 2 platinum ram 2x512. I'll probably just be playing Quake 3 (lol) and any games that come with the bundles. The MonarchComputers cpu/mobo combo comes with Far Cry and Half Life 2 so I'll probably be set with that for a while. Then later on if I choose to move up to BF2 and F.E.A.R I'll get another stick of 512 or 2x512 even. :)

I still need an opinion on this psu. It's a Fortron with dual 12v rails. I need to know if it is at least better than the 520watt Aspire.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954

The MSI OEM you showed me clocks at:
CPU = 430 Mhz
Mem = 1200 Mhz

for $485

The next cheapest higher clocked card in newegg is a XFX Retail at:
CPU = 450 Mhz
Mem = 1250 Mhz

for $505

The next cheapest highest clocked card in newegg is a XFX Retail at:
CPU = 490 Mhz
Mem = 1300 Mhz

for $555

I would get the XFX Retail at 450/1250 over the MSI OEM because:
1) Its a Retail box
2) Its clocked higher
3) Its only $20 more; and
4) I prefer XFX over MSI :P

About the RAM: if you're not going to buy a game like F.E.A.R. for a long time, then there is no point in gettting 2Gb of RAM :p:
You will benefit a lot with the faster 1Gb in that case.
If you plan on updating from 2x512mb to 4x512mb, I recommend you buy a pair of BH-5, because they run well on both orange and yellow slots.

Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt the Venice and SanDiego mem controller capable of handleing 4x512Mb easily?
Dont know if its the same with dual core CPUs, but Im guessing they can handle 4 sticks since its a new tech :P

And about the PSU: I dont know about that PSU :p: