News: ATi, a takeover target?

[DilTech]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050709-5077.html?51123

Andrew Lee, an analyst with TD Securities who specializes in ATI, has said that ATI is the possible target of a stock takeover, according to a report at the National Post (subscription required). ATI's stock saw a much-needed boost at the end of the week, fueling speculation that ATI is possibly being courted or even targeted for a hostile buy. The stock hovered around CAN$14.50 for most of the week, but after a dip Thursday to $14.00, the stock shot up to 15.77, up 8.6 percent for the entire week. It had reached a peak of $15.90, which is still a far cry from the $25 range enjoyed before June, when the stock started to tank. Shares hit their 52-week low on July 7, at $13.90.

Takeover rumors started in June, when the company's third quarter results were less than impressive, and were followed by weak projections for the fourth quarter. Rumors indicate that both AMD and Intel are interested in ATI, as are Broadcom and Texas Instruments.

ATI is in a vulnerable position because delays in their next-gen hardware have left many investors expecting to see NVIDIA dominate the rest of this year, including the lucrative holiday spending season. Nevertheless, ATI has announced that the R520 will be entering full production sometime in the fall, and their deal with Microsoft for the Xbox 360 should earn them some scratch. Indeed, while no one expects ATI to tank in the near future Ã:banana: la 3dfx, the market's lack of interest in ATI is apparent, and the time is right for buying stock if you expect to see ATI recover next year. And if you happen to be a large corporation with loads of cash, you might want to buy an awful lot of that stock.

[cadaveca]

you buy that?in other words, dude is saying buy now, before the impending release of the new cards, wehen the stock should go back up. sheesh. whole thing blown way out of proportion. alot of these sites fail to realize that ATi has made some major aquisitions as well as posting a loss. In other words, although 3rd quarter is a loss, what about the first 2, and the last one?:stick:


Rumours.

:slap:

[DilTech]

What they're saying is, with stocks that low, a company could buy 51% and TAKE OVER wether ATi wants them to or not. It happened to compusa a few years back(which is now owned by a mexican corporation), happened to the gpu manufacturer that made the gamecube gpu as well(bought by stocks by ATi). A company could EASILY buy them out with prices so low....

[cadaveca]

i realize that, but you fail to see that part of the q3 report where ATI got rid of shares in the first place, paying off the debt...one of the major contributors to them posting a loss. now, they JUST did this. For someone to buy enough stock to take control would be almost impossible, as some stock is publicly traded, while other stocks are not. They got rid of publicly available stock, making it even harder for a takeover to happen. The reason those companies are mentioned is because they are the only people that have enough liquid funds to make the purchases nessecary. They omit, however, that you have to convince the stockholder to sell first.

altohugh arstechnica may have posted this information, they are far from the original source.


ATI Technologies rally sparks takeover rumours

Mark Evans, with files from Peter Evans
Financial Post

Saturday, July 09, 2005


is the org source...one local to ATI.



TD Securities Inc. and/or an affiliated company is a market maker, or is associated with the specialist that makes a market, in the securities of the subject company.

Justification of Target Price

12-Month Target Price: $US12.75

- http://www.tdsecurities.com/Web/EqResDisc.nsf/vwequitysortbycompany/ATI%20Technologies%20Inc.?OpenDocument

if you read the info there, and understood it, it is TD Waterhouse suggesting a BUY of ATI stock.






Research Ratings

BUY: The stock's total return is expected to exceed a minimum of 15%, on a risk-adjusted basis, over the next 12 months.
SPECULATIVE BUY: The stock's total return is expected to exceed 30% over the next 12 months; however, there is material event risk associated with the investment that could result in significant loss.
HOLD: The stock's total return is expected to be between 0% and 15%, on a risk-adjusted basis, over the next 12 months.
REDUCE: The stock's total return is expected to be negative over the next 12 months.

49% for a buy.

:slapass: :slap:


sorry...52%.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34023

[DilTech]

I didn't say it was going to happen, simply that it could... Nice detective work on everything you pulled out though.

Either way, I saw it as news, saw it wasn't posted here, and posted it myself.

[perkam]

Nvidia was in a worse position last year than this...and its been less than 2 years that ATI nearly doubled its market share to half the market...so if there are any takeover rumours, its ATi looking at taking over other companies...not vicey versa ;)

Perkam

[cadaveca]

I didn't say it was going to happen, simply that it could... Nice detective work on everything you pulled out though.

not detective work. all easily had info...even most from the link you posted yourself. just so happens i've already dealt with this issue before, anf the false negative marketing coming from the other camp. Don't buy into it.

As well, you aren't hearing me. IT CANNOT HAPPEN. Not when the real financial advisors, the ones who actually deal with these companies, are recommending a buy. 52%...that means that only 48% of stocks COULD be available. However, are these the stocks that are publicly traded, and hold no controlling interst, or are these the private stocks, the ones that have the power? LOL. Take a wild guess what everyone is speculating on....:slapass:
they are not controlling stocks.

:rofl:
controlling stocks are not currently for sale, AFAIK.


and it was posted earlier.

[perkam]

Cadaveca's right...and here's more proof from SmartMoney's "Stock Valuator" :

http://members.roadfly.org/perkam/ATI%20Jul%2011%202005.JPG

Takeovers in an oligopoly arent natural, especially when two companies dominate the market in such a way. And also, ATI is merely going through the normal business cycle...by September, nV will be the one under pressure...not to mention it'd have to pull off something miraculous by then if it wants back the ground it lost to ATI with the NV30. ;)

Perkam

[DilTech]

Nvidia was in a worse position last year than this...and its been less than 2 years that ATI nearly doubled its market share to half the market...so if there are any takeover rumours, its ATi looking at taking over other companies...not vicey versa ;)

Perkam

It wasn't last year, last year was the year of the NV40. They also had the cell phone thing and the NForce Mobo's. They were in trouble during the 5800 fiasco, but other than that they've always been a rather strong company. Also, ATi doesn't own nearly half the market, did you forget about pc owners with Intel's Extreme igp? More pc owners have that than anything else!

Also, NVidia's stock prices NEVER dropped that low.

[cadaveca]

Cadaveca's right...and here's more proof from SmartMoney's "Stock Valuator" :
Perkam


how often have you known me to be wrong? lol not too often, but it HAS happened.


Also, NVidia's stock prices NEVER dropped that low.

the value may not be the same, but the percentage of loss is about the same, meaning that nVidia actually lost MORE money. around 400 million. on the NV40.


what you don't understand is that the stock has gone down not becasue of people's outlook on the stocks, as these sites have been interpreting, but becasue of thier expenditures. they are enlargening thier market focus, and within the last 6 months have aquired numerous other companies, just like nVidia did when they lost so much cash.

But here's the thing..nvidia always goes with old tech....remember the last time nvidia was subject to a scandal, becasue of FP16, and thier gpu's only having 5 physical registers? :confused:

Well, this time ATI have adaptable piplines...new tech...once again exactly what Microsoft asked for, and nVidia said was not nessecary.

The FX line is almost all but forgotten, but for those of us that have been following the industry for quite some time, you can see nVidia's real blunder...they just added more pipes to the 6800, while lowered power comsumption. a mighty task, i'll admit, but nothing new. great. more pipes.:slapass:
ATi, on the other hand, is forging new ground, like the 9600 did when it fit the dx9 spec. and guess who's cards microsoft bought to develop dx9b on? and guess who's gpu's are in the xbox360? and guess who's new gpu's meet the new WGF standards for Longhorn? :fact:



i dunno about you, but i see history repeating itself. ATI has gone to the customers it has that brought them such a large part of the market in the first place, and met thier demands, yet again. this is not a dismal outlook, as these sites suggest. ATI has even started to produce chipsets, and mobile handset chips, incase you forgot. seems they are doing better this time around.... :stick:


So seriously dude, and everyone else. Don't buy the hype. :nono: Just check the sources. :fact:

[Shadowmage]

Thanks guys. Dil-tech is pulling the same crap on EOCF.

[DilTech]

how often have you known me to be wrong? lol not too often, but it HAS happened.



the value may not be the same, but the percentage of loss is about the same, meaning that nVidia actually lost MORE money. around 400 million. on the NV40.


what you don't understand is that the stock has gone down not becasue of people's outlook on the stocks, as these sites have been interpreting, but becasue of thier expenditures. they are enlargening thier market focus, and within the last 6 months have aquired numerous other companies, just like nVidia did when they lost so much cash.

But here's the thing..nvidia always goes with old tech....remember the last time nvidia was subject to a scandal, becasue of FP16, and thier gpu's only having 5 physical registers? :confused:

Well, this time ATI have adaptable piplines...new tech...once again exactly what Microsoft asked for, and nVidia said was not nessecary.

The FX line is almost all but forgotten, but for those of us that have been following the industry for quite some time, you can see nVidia's real blunder...they just added more pipes to the 6800, while lowered power comsumption. a mighty task, i'll admit, but nothing new. great. more pipes.:slapass:
ATi, on the other hand, is forging new ground, like the 9600 did when it fit the dx9 spec. and guess who's cards microsoft bought to develop dx9b on? and guess who's gpu's are in the xbox360? and guess who's new gpu's meet the new WGF standards for Longhorn? :fact:



i dunno about you, but i see history repeating itself. ATI has gone to the customers it has that brought them such a large part of the market in the first place, and met thier demands, yet again. this is not a dismal outlook, as these sites suggest. ATI has even started to produce chipsets, and mobile handset chips, incase you forgot. seems they are doing better this time around.... :stick:


So seriously dude, and everyone else. Don't buy the hype. :nono: Just check the sources. :fact:


Actually, you mention the NV40 and say NVidia stayed to the past... Take another look at that one, will ya? ATi stuck to the past last round! R420 = SM2.0, DX9b, FPP 24bit, no hdr, LOWER IQ than the 9800pro/xt thanks to Brilinear filtering instead of true trilinear.... The chip WAS literally nothing more than a R360 on steriods. During this, ATi made endless claims saying nothing added to the NV40 was needed...

Now, let's take a glance at the NV40. SuperSampling AA(something ATi still can't do), SM3.0, 32bit FPP, Full HDR support, On-board video chip, SLi, UltraShadow II...

Also, Microsoft wrote the SM3.0(dx9c) standard from the NV40...

The only thing the R420 added was 3dc, which was added to the NV40 via a simple driver hack, that was all that it required.

Look over that a few times, it's ATi staying in the past.

Now, as for your "who's video card fits the WGF standard for longhorn"... Neither one does(source http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20050610090546.html ). The R500 does, but the R520 is based around the R420, and NOT the R500. Microsoft stated that they wanted the R500 all to themselves, and ATi renamed it's pc counterpart the R600. There's reports that state the R520 is PS3.0 compatible and not a bit higher. The Xbox-360 gpu does meet the WGF standard, but not the R520... Do a little reading, you'll find I'm right. If ATi hadn't agreed to not releasing the R500 for the PC, we'd already have the damn card available to us!

Also, guess who's gpu's are in the Sony PS3... Which, as always, will probably outsell everyone else by an amazingly high ratio. Microsoft went ATi this time because nvidia wouldn't agree to make a special chip specifically for the xbox-360, while sony didn't care. That has nothing to do with power in the slightest, considering the Sony ps3 is looking to pretty much floor the xbox360.

Got anything else to say?

[DilTech]

Thanks guys. Dil-tech is pulling the same crap on EOCF.

What crap, I didn't say it would happen, I said it could. That's NOT pulling crap!

Now if I said "ATi will be taken over", you can call it pulling crap, but in this case, I was simply posting news...

[Shadowmage]

SSAA is enabled via patch from Humus's website. Humus is an ATI worker btw.

On-board WMV acceleration can be done as well. I think even my laptop GPU can do that (basically a Radeon 9600XT).

SLI = CrossFire


Also, R520 is NOT based on the R420. It's a complete redesign, sorta like NV30 vs NV40.


I believe that he's referring to nVidia going with 110nm, and ATI going with 90nm with his "ATI is breaking new ground" statement. Also, G70 is an augmentation to NV40, nothing more.

[Shadowmage]

Dil: You are (or were) arguing FOR an ATI takeover. You believe that ATI is floundering and that it WILL be taken over. That's what you were arguing for in EOCF at least. However, the guys here are much more knowledgable in the stock market, unlike me, so they just dismissed it like a rumor (as it should).

[cadaveca]

Actually, you mention the NV40 and say NVidia stayed to the past...
where? they did that with the nv3x series. i was talkin fx series, not the nv40, so you right away make no sense.
Take another look at that one, will ya? ATi stuck to the past last round! R420 = SM2.0, DX9b, FPP 24bit, no hdr, LOWER IQ than the 9800pro/xt thanks to Brilinear filtering instead of true trilinear.... The chip WAS literally nothing more than a R360 on steriods. During this, ATi made endless claims saying nothing added to the NV40 was needed... yes. i'll give you that, but what apps actualyl use the tech nvidia introduced with the nv40, and then read this from david kirk from nvidia:


"Whilst there may be no new visable architecture, that's because there's no new API - we're still on DirectX 9," said Kirk. "We've had a major opportunity to polish and refine the hardware. The first product for each API - in this case, GeForce FX - is a struggle. The second one hits the stride. With this, the 7800, we've put together an awesome package. It's been a great opportunity to improve."

so, when we talk about the now, as i am in my posts, ATI are bringing new tech, while nvidia is not, and here's what nvidia says about it:


Microsoft have written a unified software layer into the next version of WGF. Does this signify that Microsoft and ATI are on the same track, and NVIDIA are not following the same path?

"Well, let's get something straight. Microsoft makes APIs (Application Programming Interfaces- Ed) not hardware. WGF is a specification for an API specification - it's software, not hardware."
"For them, implementing Unified Shaders means a unified programming model. Since they don't build hardware, they're not saying anything about hardware.

"Debating unified against separate shader architecture is not really the important question. The strategy is simply to make the vertex and pixel pipelines go fast. The tactic is how you build an architecture to execute that strategy. We're just trying to work out what is the most efficient way.

"It's far harder to design a unified processor - it has to do, by design, twice as much. Another word for 'unified' is 'shared', and another word for 'shared' is 'competing'. It's a challenge to create a chip that does load balancing and performance prediction. It's extremely important, especially in a console architecture, for the performance to be predicable. With all that balancing, it's difficult to make the performance predictable. I've even heard that some developers dislike the unified pipe, and will be handling vertex pipeline calculations on the Xbox 360's triple-core CPU."

"Right now, I think the 7800 is doing pretty well for a discrete architecture?

So what about the future?

"We will do a unified architecture in hardware when it makes sense. When it's possible to make the hardware work faster unified, then of course we will. It will be easier to build in the future, but for the meantime, there's plenty of mileage left in this architecture."

in case you missed it, it basically says that ATI is a step ahead with the unfied tech, but he is skeptical on ATI's result, as any ATI competitor should be when making a statement to the press. it's called marketing. it might be difficult, but at least ATI will make the transition BEFORE it's needed, while nVidia will be left struggling, like with the nv40...sure it brought new tech, but they still lost in performance.(nevenrmind that ATI are getting support directly from the API maker, who holds the largest share of OSes used by games, which the whole market is centered around anyway.) So now they have part of the new tech covered, and the performance they needed from the start. ATI, meanwhile, have moved onto bigger and better...so who's stuck in the past?

and i thought daivd kirk said there was no new API? :confused: what's WGF then? lol. he's a sucker.
the rest of your post is.......well....... not very upstanding...lol. but heck, you can have your opinion, your are entitled to it. i base mine not on loyalty to a company, but based on the facts. If nvidia had released a better product, i'd be giving them the praise. but they've gone and repeated the past. as they did with dx9...notice how on the box of most FX-series cards, it says dx-9 compatible, and not dx-9 compliant. :fact:

then, look at ATI's r300 series, and the r400 series, which is just like the nv40 and the g70 family tree...they both just added pipes...but ati did it in a better way...or did you forget macci's 9xxx 3dmark score, with 16 pipes? sure, the g70 goes great with 48 pipes in SLi, but what if you took 3 x850xt's, for the same number of pipes, and compared the end result?

and how about that sli thing...sure, great new tech..ATI does not have it in the gaming market....but just what are those yellow vidoe-in connectors for? and what videocards, in multiple-rendering situations, is used in flight simulators, and has been for years?


lol you're a marketing beast sucker, and for that, you can be forgiven. :slapass:

[DilTech]

SSAA is enabled via patch from Humus's website. Humus is an ATI worker btw.
.
That's not SSAA, that's transparency multi-sampling AA...Supersampling looks FARRRR better, as it does every pixel, while MS only does edges... You should read before you type.

[DilTech]

cadaveca, did you not read the link I posted?...The R520 will only be DX9c compliant, not DX10/Avalon/WGF compliant. That's STRAIGHT from ATi's mouth. YES the R500(Xbox360 GPU) will essentially be, but the R520 is NOT a deriative of the R500, but is closer based on the R420 with some modification. Therefore, the R520 is NOT a step ahead of the G70!

NVidia said they will make the jump when it makes sense, in otherwords, when Windows Longhorn actually has a solid release date. As it stands, that might be late 2k6/early 2k7, so in a way I can see them being right on this, as DX9c has no way of telling the gpu which pipelines should do what, which inturn will make the driver do more work, causing a bit more latency in the overall command chain...

Also, ATi didn't add pipes more efficiently... If they did, you'd be able to downclock the ATi card to match the NVidia clocks, and get a dead-even tie, or ATi would win. If anything, it was a bit more sloppy, as it needed a higher clockspeed last round to match nvidia.

I agree with you about the FX series being a joke, it should be noted that my old videocard is a 9800pro. :fact:

In otherwords, you're the one buying into the marketing beast...

[cadaveca]

ok dude, but maybe you should re-read what is posted in your link, and find out just what WGF is, becasue PS3.0 or 3.0a is NOT WGF.

this is what you link says about missing functionality, which, btw, ATI already stated a long time ago that there would be no PS3.0 support, as 3Dc gave them better results.


“To the best of my knowledge there is no Shader Model 3.0a or Pixel Shader 3.0a specifications,� Richard Huddy, European Developer Relations Manager, ATI told X-bit labs. “I suppose it’s also conceivable that MS might want to designate the Xbox 360 pixel shaders as ‘PS3.0a’. But my contact at MS clearly doesn't believe that this is their plan.�


so, uh, where did you get the part about WDF? and r500 suporting it??

pixels shaders are just part of a graphics API. like i said earlier, i base my stuff on facts, not marketing.


AS APU SAYS:
"tank you for coming. pls come again."


this is twice i used your own links against you. :woot:



:toast:

[DilTech]

WGF is windows graphics foundation, aka DX10, aka Avalon. In the beta version of Longhorn, it's WGF 1.0, which is essentially PS3.0. WGF2.0 is DX10/avalon, which is what will be in the retail version of Windows Longhorn, and no upcoming or current GPU supports it. So tell me how you used my link against me.
The R520 only supports PS3.0, as stated in my link.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23524
There ya go, the R500 IS MORE ADVANCED than the R520, as the R520 isn't programmable pipelines, while the R500 is. It also says the R520 is PS4.0 and WGF2.0 compatible, and FINALLY that the R500 is comparible to the r600 of pc cards, and not the R520.

As Apu would say.. "would you like some vodka with that?"

Now, how again did you use my link against me?

[cadaveca]

again, your link says this:


If we remember correctly, the R500 is an advanced version of a chip once codenamed R400 - the one that ATI was working on after R350, Radeon 9800PRO. You can see here that ATI cancelled it but I am sure that we wrote about it on the INQ before.

so it says a more advanced than what the r400 was meant to be. it is only more advanced than the r520 as it has 3 16-pipe blocks, while the r520 has a different assignation of pipes(and no daughterchip either). this of course, is NDA territory, i think, so you'll just have to wait until next month to find out the real story. you should also know tthat fuad has his story wrong more often then not. it's him that gives the inq a bad name.

and here's more for ya:

This one will have WGF 2.0 compliance and will be able to deal with Shader model 4.0 at the same time.

so, WGF, and PS3.0, are different beasts. lol. how old are you anyway? not very, as you are not fully reading the words you try to use to back up your story. pls take your time when reading info that you would like to back your argument.






WGF is a specification for an API specification - it's software, not hardware."
"For them, implementing Unified Shaders means a unified programming model. Since they don't build hardware, they're not saying anything about hardware.

PS3.0 is unified shaders? Really?!? Wow. Did i miss an update or what? So the g70 runs a unified pipeline then, as does the 6800 series, and the 6600, and the 6200, since, WDF is DX9, and PS3.0 features unified shaders! You're the man!!!

:slap:

i think that's 3-0.

[DilTech]

Again, READ WHAT I SAY BEFORE YOU REPLY! NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT WGF2.0 WAS THE SAME AS PS3.0. AND NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT THE 7800GTX, 6800GT/ULTRA OR ANY OF THEM HAD UNIFIED SHADERS/PIPELINES!!!!!

You're not 3-0... Infact, that last post made NO SENSE whatsoever.
I already stated that WGF 2.0 is different than PS3.0, however WGF1.0 is essentially PS3.0. The R500 is more advanced than the R520, as the R520 is PS3.0 compliant, while the R500 is WGF2.0 and PS4.0 compliant... WHERE DID I SAY PS3.0 AND WGF2.0 WERE THE SAME????

The requirement for WGF2.0 is a unified pipeline, which the R500 has... If the R520 has this, it would be WGF2.0 compliant, and not just ps3.0 compliant, which ATi themselves said the R520 was only ps3.0 compliant.

Where are you seeing me as wrong here?

Finally, for the record, I'm 22.

[[XC] leviathan18]

WGF is the new direct x for longhorn r500 will support it.

the r500 we wont see it on desktop until 2006 renamed r600 maybe...
the rsx is g70 with something else is the desing like the r500 and we wont see it until 2006

nvida > ati, nvidia is making a lot more money with their chipset line up that is a killer ati is taking quite long releasing the damn crossfire and as always nvidia first with tech and then goes ati....

[cadaveca]

Again, READ WHAT I SAY BEFORE YOU REPLY! NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT WGF2.0 WAS THE SAME AS PS3.0. AND NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT THE 7800GTX, 6800GT/ULTRA OR ANY OF THEM HAD UNIFIED SHADERS/PIPELINES!!!!!

right here


WGF is windows graphics foundation, aka DX10, aka Avalon. In the beta version of Longhorn, it's WGF 1.0, which is essentially PS3.0.


WGF 1.0 IS directX 9.0c, as you refer to it. microsoft released this as DX9.0c, when longhorn was delayed, the motovations of which i am sure you can understand. jsut remember that longhorn would already be here if it wasn't for court cases.

the WGF featured in longhorn is a unified shader API, but with the backwards compatibility built in. although you refer to WGF as 2 seperate entities, WGF has instead grown to encompass both techs. AS the g70 does not meet the unfied shading part of the WGF spec, it is not fully compliant, and hence "outdated"



You're not 3-0... Infact, that last post made NO SENSE whatsoever.
I already stated that WGF 2.0 is different than PS3.0, however WGF1.0 is essentially PS3.0. The R500 is more advanced than the R520, as the R520 is PS3.0 compliant, while the R500 is WGF2.0 and PS4.0 compliant... WHERE DID I SAY PS3.0 AND WGF2.0 WERE THE SAME????

The requirement for WGF2.0 is a unified pipeline, which the R500 has... If the R520 has this, it would be WGF2.0 compliant, and not just ps3.0 compliant, which ATi themselves said the R520 was only ps3.0 compliant.

Where are you seeing me as wrong here?

well, lets see...how did you come to that conclusion?

WGF, as in the one featured in longhorn betas, is directX9c. However, WGF 2.0, or WGF as it stands now, since longhorn cannot be released due to litigation, feature the unified shading model, and if you read all the info, you'll find that the r520 DOES meet the WGF "2.0"(as you call it) specs.

maybe you should read the bit-tech article, and see what nvidia says about ATi's r520, as it's an article with an interview from them, about the g70, but they kept going back to ATI and consoles. Now, consoles have nothing to do with WGF, as they have nothing to do with longhorn, and hence the allusion in the inq article to the r500 maybe being SM3.0a...as it's a modified version of the spec tailored to meet M$'s needs.

what you also don't seem to understand si that the r500 is a multi-core version of the r520, hence the delay on release of such tech, and the need for the edram chip paired with the main die in the xbox360. this is very obvious when you explore the info available in the r500 via xbox360 stuff. So, in this regard, it's much more advanced than the r520. the daughter chip is what makes all the difference in the world, and it's speed, while the desktop version will be a single-cored option, with a multi-processing capabilities taken off the die, and moved to the composting engine in the crossfire series of the card. becasue it's not included in one package, it's less advanced as well, but the base tech of both chips are exactly the same, and hence the same productline. if they were far different beasts as you suggest, they'd have different product id's as ATI like to keep things simple. :fact:


anyways, you can argue all you want...only ATI and those who signed NDA's know the truth.

[perkam]

I dont know what the hub ub over the R5xx is about. Simple Facts, gentlemen:

Xbox360 --> Coming Out Sept/Nov 2005
PS3 --> Coming out q1/q2 2006.

Both ati and nv will use 90nm nex gen tech...the diff ?

ATi will have perfected a manufacturing process that will result in more than 10 million R500 chips in production within a year of the Xbox 360 launch: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4114682.stm ....which will most likely mean at least a million in production at or within couple of months of launch as Microsoft releases it worldwide...while Nvidia will be behind in bringing its nex gen tech to the consumer market as it'll have a couple of months more to tinker with its hardware for the ps3 launch.

Which nex gen am I talking about ?? I'm talking about R600/G80. The current nex gen will be phased out quite fast come next year or q3/q4 2006 as both companies will have multiple high end graphics tech in production...which will make it less economical to cater to desktop high end exclusively...so they'll most likely switch G80 (desktop version of chip in PS3) and R600 (desktop version of chip in xbox360) very soon come end of next year.

As for right now, the R520'll come, the 7800 has already come. And I'm happy either way as already Nv prices are being pushed down drastically on old tech and I hope the same can be said of ATI at ATI's R520 launch. Neither of the two companies is going anywhere fast and I'm sure none of us can deny that once the R520 is launched, both companies will be on stable ground. But yea, I've said it before and I'll say it again, kudos to Nvidia on its surprise hard launch this summer :up:

Also, its annoying to see the same ppl going back and forth..I know you have a habit of this Cad, we've gone a few rounds ourselves :p: ...but lets not argue over this excessively and move on to different topics once one has been discussed. No need to push a subject just because you need to have the last word on it.

Perkam

[cadaveca]

Both ati and nv will use 90nm nex gen tech...the diff ?

ATi will have more than 10 million R500 chips in production within a year of the Xbox 360 launch:
Perkam

uh, no they won't. they aren't making the chips, simply designing them. M$ is the company responsible, and the outcome @ the fabs of r500/Xenon is not up to ATI, altohugh should problems arise, they are there to consult. THey just make a royalty for each chip sold, and were probably paid an upfront sum. Although what you mention is important in the relation to ATI being in a bad position...with this 90% guaranteed income from these chips...and added things...lol...ATI is far from out for the count.

[SlicerSV]

and they were using the inquirer for their sources... i mean, no one uses the inquirer and takes it 100% seriously. yet both of them were... :nono:

[EvlUndrWareNome]

It would be nice if they were taken over. Then they might actually know how to release products in a reasonable time frame. If say Intel took over it, they have the money to put advertising out there and put out a product.