Comment on my watercooling componenets

[K.I.T.T.]

I use my rig (see sig) mainly for gaming. Apart from that, it runs F@H pretty much 24/7. Nowadays, I get fully loaded temps. of around 63*C (thanks to this stupid weather :slapass: ) Before, i was getting temps. in the range of mid 50s. Anyway, despite what it says on the box, the freezer 7 isnt exactly silent :stick:. Sooooooooo............I decided to watercool my rig. I'll be starting fairly soon (within the next 2 weeks) and ive specced up the following.

ThermoChill PA160 radiator - £54.97
ThermoChill PA160 "Wings" Mounting Kit - £11.94
2 x 3/8" BSP 1/2" Barb (Nickel) - £4.66
DangerDen DD12V-D5 Pump - £49.99
DangerDen RBX (1/2") - P4 775 waterblock - £37.99
DangerDen Maze4 Acetal Top LowProfile GPU Block (1/2") - £32.77
DangerDen 1/2" ID U.V. blue tubing
DangerDen Bay Reservoir - 5.25" - £22.71
Hose clamps, PTFE tape, etc....

This is my first time i'm watercooling so i need your opinion on whether these specs are good. Also, which waterblock is better? The RBX or TDX. And will that 160.1 Radiator be enough? - the only reason i chose that radiator is that I can install it in my case and still have the "factory finished" look.

Also, I need some n00b's watercooling tips/tricks and advise :D

Thanks

BTW, First post here :D

[MaxxxRacer]

First off let me be the first to welcome you to XtremeSystems, where we kill our hardware with Xtreme effeciency. ... now down to buisness

it looks good to me. i sould suggest the Nexus fan http://www.jab-tech.com/customer/product.php?productid=2856&cat=205&page=1 for your radiator. from what i've read at pro cooilng it is the quietest fan around and pushes an ok amount of air. the pa160 was designed in mind with this fan.

as to the RBX/TDX question. the RBX poses slightly higer restriction but cools better per flow "unit". so with the same flow rbx is better. but TDX will give slightly higer flow rates. so its a toss up. I'd go with the TDX mearly due to the fact that it will be easier to setup.

everything else looks good to me.

[K.I.T.T.]

Thanks :D
How about that radiator? Do you think it will be upto the job to cool a pres-hott :stick: as well as a 6600GT?
Also what coolant additives/anti algae fluid do you recommend?

K.I.T.T.

[MaxxxRacer]

i reccomend zerex. im pretty sure overclockers UK carries that as that is the place that ur ordering from (my physcic abilities tell me this :rollseyes: )

the radiator shoudl be fine for that. just dont plan to be putting a x800XT or G70 on there any time soon. the 6600GT is a pretty cool running gpu so u shouldnt have problems.

FYI the pa160 was designed to perform slightly less than the 120.2 so that should give u a guage as to its performance.

[Special_K]

just one comment/question from K

do you need the low profile Maze4 for possible SLi fitting later?

K bought the lowprofile and now is wishing he had gone for the regular as there are 2 RAM chips sitting right under the barbs that are getting pretty hot and are unable to heatsink due to the barb proximity - grrrr =/

anywhooo - welcome and enjoy your stay - the beers in the fridge BELONG TO K!!!!

[K.I.T.T.]

i reccomend zerex. im pretty sure overclockers UK carries that as that is the place that ur ordering from (my physcic abilities tell me this :rollseyes: )

the radiator shoudl be fine for that. just dont plan to be putting a x800XT or G70 on there any time soon. the 6600GT is a pretty cool running gpu so u shouldnt have problems.

FYI the pa160 was designed to perform slightly less than the 120.2 so that should give u a guage as to its performance.
Thanks for the welcome :D

My MoBo doesnt have SLi :stick: so i was going to go with the regular block. BUT, the slim one is the same price, so which one would you recommend?
Anyway, i planning to set it up as follows (rubbish pic - i blame paint :D)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/ashish7949/a8debc52.jpg


is that right or have i messed it up? Im a watercooling n00b lol :am:

Basically, im taking the front fascia of my case of and cutting some metal away with a dremel. Ill put the radiator as shown and air will be sucked in through the front (the fascia has holes for it - like a cheiftec dragon)

Comments/suggetions appreciated

[jellybeard999]

you want to go

pump -> cpu -> gpu -> rad -> res -> pump

and get a TDX tbh

[mad mikee]

Ya you've proven your noobness :D (NEVER pump into res, think about water not completely moving out)

Flow: pump -> rad -> CPU -> GPU -> res (I never use them (yet)) -> pump.

NO 90degree angles (barbs, etc)
Have you visited procooling.com? (the other place we frequent around here :D ) Lots of useful info. Home of the PA-160, etc.

I have a PA-160 and 3200+ @ 2.7 GHz and x800xl in loop w/cascade block and mcp350 pump. Panaflo M for cooling for now. w/ Ambient of ~ 22c CPU diode reads 29-31c under load (Speedfan) I like it! Loudest thing now is the OCZ 600 PSU fans :hehe:

What Case?
We want b4 and after Pics!

And one more minor detail: :welcome: to Xtreme! :woot:

[K.I.T.T.]

Ya you've proven your noobness :D (NEVER pump into res, think about water not completely moving out)

Flow: pump -> rad -> CPU -> GPU -> res (I never use them (yet)) -> pump.

NO 90degree angles (barbs, etc)
Have you visited procooling.com? (the other place we frequent around here :D ) Lots of useful info. Home of the PA-160, etc.

I have a PA-160 and 3200+ @ 2.7 GHz and x800xl in loop w/cascade block and mcp350 pump. Panaflo M for cooling for now. w/ Ambient of ~ 22c CPU diode reads 29-31c under load (Speedfan) I like it! Loudest thing now is the OCZ 600 PSU fans :hehe:

What Case?
We want b4 and after Pics!

And one more minor detail: :welcome: to Xtreme! :woot:
cheers mate!!
Us n00bs rule LOL :D

Will post pics when i get a digital camera!! :stick: (should get one this month anyway.....visiting italy in july)
My case is an antec plusview 1000 AMG (stupid long name LOL)

http://www.gamesessions.com/store/images/products/thumb_PLUSVIEW1000AMG.jpg

http://www.antec-inc.com/images/400/PLUSVIEW1000AMGSide.jpg

[caLume]

pump should suck from reservoir dude!

[jellybeard999]

and rad after blocks... unless its a non impingement block (tdx IS impingement, so rad after blocks)

[K.I.T.T.]

and rad after blocks... unless its a non impingement block (tdx IS impingement, so rad after blocks)
whats impingemen :stick: ?
BTW, how do you fill/bleed the system? me = n00b = knows nothing about watercooling :slap:

[jellybeard999]

impingement blocks rely on pressure to perform, hence need to go first... after the pump

oh, and to fill you top the reservoir up, and wait for it to trickle down, etc etc.... and repeat lol

it should self bleed eventually if res is at the highest point ;)

[K.I.T.T.]

impingement blocks rely on pressure to perform, hence need to go first... after the pump

oh, and to fill you top the reservoir up, and wait for it to trickle down, etc etc.... and repeat lol

it should self bleed eventually if res is at the highest point ;)
Thanks :D
I see your from the UK.....where abouts? I'm usually in blackburn or manchester

[K.I.T.T.]

. i sould suggest the Nexus fan http://www.jab-tech.com/customer/product.php?productid=2856&cat=205&page=1 for your radiator. from what i've read at pro cooilng it is the quietest fan around and pushes an ok amount of air. the pa160 was designed in mind with this fan.

Wouldnt 36 cfm be too little ? :confused:

[RaptorRaider]

It all depends on what the max amount of noise is you can tolerate.


Seeing how the PA160 scales very well with high CFM fans you could go with those if you can stand the noise.

[K.I.T.T.]

It all depends on what the max amount of noise is you can tolerate.


Seeing how the PA160 scales very well with high CFM fans you could go with those if you can stand the noise.
I cant stand noise LOL - but, i dont want rubbish performance either. What CFM would you recommend....

I found this fan:


120mm Noise Blocker Fan

Dimensions: 120x120x25mm

Model: SX1 OEM
Weight: 175g
Connector: 3-pin Molex
Air flow: 65 m3/h
Fan type: double bearing
Revolutions: 1200 rpm
Noise: 17 dBA
Power input: 1,16 W
Voltage: 6-13 V

is it any good? otherwise, i could get a panaflow or something and tune it down with a rheostat

[RaptorRaider]

The Noisebocker SX1 is a fan I've heard (I think Cathar made typos) has a very good noise/performance ratio and given it's low speed it is the best low-noise fan I can think of for their price.

The only fans I have experience with are Papst fans; even though they're way too expensive, people (like me) still tend to buy them simply because of their good noise/performance ratio and build quality. Plus I live in Europe. ;)

[K.I.T.T.]

Hehe Europe :D

So I guess ill go for the noseblocker - Thermochill recommends them for that radiator (well the site says so in the description lol) Its quite expensive though at £15 :(

[MaxxxRacer]

KITT- jellybell made this statement "and rad after blocks... unless its a non impingement block (tdx IS impingement, so rad after blocks)"

this is ENTIRELY false. impingement blocks do NOT rely on pressure. u can have it right before your res and have low pressure and it will perform EXACTLY the same as if it were right after the pump.

the only thing about loop order that you need to follow is this. res right before pump. that is the ONLY rule.

one last thing. you want your res to be as close to the pump as physically possible. it will perform better this way. so i suggest ditching the bay res and finding a res that will sit on the ground next to ur pump. or u cna keep the bay res and have it sit on the ground.


The res does not need to be at the top but it does make it easier for bleeding and filling. but this is only a temporary thing. having it next to ur pump would be more advantageous in the long run.

[tw33k2514]

or just ditch the res and put a T-Line in front of the pump

[MaxxxRacer]

also a good solution.

[K.I.T.T.]

so would you have to fill it from the T-line then?

ok, MY NEW PROTOTYPE :D (again, i blame paint for the quality :D)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/ashish7949/WATERCOOLANPROTOTYPE.jpg

And if i want a res, I just put that where the T-Line is? Also, you will fill the water from the T-line? And would it bleed itself like this?

And is that noiseblocker fan good enough? 1 more thing - whats the difference between distilled and de-ionized water and which should you use?

Sorry for all the n00b questions :D

[RaptorRaider]

And is that noiseblocker fan good enough?
Depends on what you think is good enough.
As you can see on Thermochill's website, Cathar estimates a Noiseblocker SX1 (again, I think it's a typo) at 12V combined with a PA160 to have a C/W rating of 0.050 C/W.
If for example, your components would dump 100W in your watercooling loop, then the difference between using the SX1 and a Panaflo H1A at 12V (48dB) would be 100x0.05-100x0.022=2.8C.
1 more thing - whats the difference between distilled and de-ionized water and which should you use?
3 quotes from an article at overclockers.com:
Distilled Water

Distilled water is water that has been heated to the boiling point in an apparatus called a still to produce water vapor, which is then condensed back into liquid water. Most of the impurities will remain in the boiling pot. The distillation process removes waterborne biological contaminants, organic and inorganic chemicals, heavy metals, volatile gases and other contaminants. Some volatile contaminants may be carried over if they have a similar boiling point as water.

Distilled water is one of the purest forms of water. Distillation is frequently used in the final stages of producing ultra pure water for use by semiconductor and pharmaceutical industries.
In the context of PC water-cooling we can consider de-ionized water and demineralized water to be essentially the same. When minerals dissolve in water they produce ions - so removing ions removes minerals. De-ionized water (DI water) is water that has had most of the dissolved solids and minerals removed. In general, the more of these ionized substances that can be removed, the purer the water will be.
Recommendation: Using DI water is OK but it offers no advantages over distilled water.

[MaxxxRacer]

KITT: the new loop order looks good to me.

btw when u get a T-Line make sure to get a 5/8" OD one. u can get them at mcmaster for 5 dollars for a bag of 10.

yes u fill by the tline.. but it will take alot longer time to bleed than a res.

[K.I.T.T.]

OK, thanks guys :D

My next post should hopefully contain before and after pics ;) .......still waiting for the mounting kit to arrive at over-clock.co.uk :slapass:

[mad mikee]

Even down to details like water goes in at bottom of rad (better bleeding). If the t-line is pointing straight up it will fil over a couple of hours w/ fine bubbles that grow and that is how bleeding works w/ a t-line. A res directly connected to the pump is among the best ideas if the inlet is from the side as bleeding happens in a few minutes, however some water may sit.
Have had both, now just use the t-line (idea is to get inside diameter of t-line to match up w/ inside diameter of tubing or bigger to minimize any constriction).
See if you can design it such that you can remove the whole cooling loop as a unit. I do that in mine so I can bleed and do initial testing outside of the case, then mount it and ready to rock! ) :D

Some other details:
1. use a gel foot/heel pad from drugstore as pad for pump, just lay it on and NO hum, etc, as it absorbs ALL vibration.

2. I used doublesided tape to mount some dense foam on the mounting edges of the rad so I can 'squeeze' it in between spots to hold it in place. Tool-less installation plus zaps any vibrations.

3. Shroud is good but not perfect seal - mount 1/8 - 1/4 foam weatherstrip on inside of shroud where shroud meets rad and also by fan (make sure the fan blades don't hit foam been there done that a PITA). At the low airflow levels here, you don't want ANY air leakage.

4. Last but not least remember the fan is in drawing air through the rad, not blowing onto it!

[MaxxxRacer]

mad mikee. with the pa160 i have to be honest with you. the fan direction is almost irrelevant. so airflow restriction is so low and the shroud distance is so great that it makes it barely noticeable that the rad is even there when the fan is on. its really quite amazing i must say. But i should stress this is a SPECIAL case and would not be advisable for any other rad.

[jellybeard999]

KITT- jellybell made this statement "and rad after blocks... unless its a non impingement block (tdx IS impingement, so rad after blocks)"

this is ENTIRELY false. impingement blocks do NOT rely on pressure. u can have it right before your res and have low pressure and it will perform EXACTLY the same as if it were right after the pump.



i was led to believe that :(

pumps can give flow and pressure...

older blocks (maze 4) or of similar design (MCW6002) prefer flow
impingement blocks prefer pressure

:confused:

or is this just a fallacy ? :(

[MaxxxRacer]

just a fallacy...

the pressure does not matter as long as the flow is there.

what is true is that u need a high pressure pump to get good flow rates with high restriction blocks. this is true of all high restriction blocks be it impingement or not.

btw the mcw6002 is actually more restrictive than a TDX. shocking aint it :p: