-50c air cooling, Vortex Tube

[FUGGER]

http://www.exair.com/vortextube/vt_page.htm

I requested a sample for testing. They sell for about $250

[[XC] leviathan18]

sad it uses compressed air maybe if you put an air compressor?

[FUGGER]

Yea it is made for air compressor. It might be an option if it has enough capacity. they claim up to 1 ton capacity.

[Wiggy McShades]

but u still have one side with hot air and it says itll get up to 127 C. how coulld u use this effectivly?

[fatty]

Looks interesting hmmmmm

[Special_K]

very interesting

but

70dBA - ouch!!!!

[perkam]

Wow...though what are the costs of the whole setup ??

Perkam

[bxa121]

it is intresting, but i just wanna kow if it can be aeffective for a cpu cooler. if its cheaper and easier to setup than a vapo or any sorta phase change system, then ill be interested.

[[XC] leviathan18]

i have a 45psi compressor lying around if that works for -50 air cooling for 250$ i think is better than chilly 1 single phase change for xxx$ :S now i dont know what to buy :(

[MaxxxRacer]

interesting little thing. if u had a way of getting rid of the heat out the back it might actually work. i mean ull go deaf but it will work.

[n00b 0f l337]

Heh, that could be pretty cool.... Sorta like flipping the compressd air can upside down and shooting my old xp-90 for a bench run.

[chilly1]

I bet it is a lot louder that a vortex fan.

[Peen]

Hi chilly! Havent seen you for awhile

anyways, how exactly would this work? wouldnt you have to hold it there, and you would probly need to fab an adapter? seems like it would be extremely loud! Be pretty fun to try though no doubt! maybe find one on ebay for cheap and try it out

[chilly1]

Hi chilly! Havent seen you for awhile

anyways, how exactly would this work? wouldnt you have to hold it there, and you would probly need to fab an adapter? seems like it would be extremely loud! Be pretty fun to try though no doubt! maybe find one on ebay for cheap and try it out
Looks like you would need a HS attached to the chip and the air would cool that . You would also need aircraft style headphones to block the noise!

[Peen]

How would you prevent condensation though? Probly would need like a dry ice / ln2 style system where you blow it into the tube right?

[vapb400]

My uncle an HVAC engineer suggested one to me months ago, i made a thread on it on another forum before i belonged to XS, but know one knew anything. Let me know if it works out.

[DrJay]

Yeah, I remember some news about those things a couple years ago......thought for sure someone would have tried them by now.

[bxa121]

maybe the noise isnt worth the -40 or so
how many decibels are we talking about anywyas?

[DrJay]

maybe the noise isnt worth the -40 or so
how many decibels are we talking about anywyas?
Supposedly around 70-74 or so. Maybe the unit could be insulted for sound.

[Wiggy McShades]

this is only gunna be good for benchmark runs there's 127C hot air comming out the other side if u kept this in your house ud probally die of heat exhaustion. with a single stage atleast you can overclockwihtout the risk of killing youself.

[alexio]

Good for easy to build cascades. You can allso use the hot air that comes uit of it to boil water and use the steam to power a turbine ;) that increases the efficiency of this thing by a lot, but it's very hard to make one yourself.

[Special_K]

lol - make a cup of tea, heat your room AND cool your PC all at the same time =D

[vapb400]

lol - make a cup of tea, heat your room AND cool your PC all at the same time =D
or you could have the turbine power the cascade! :p:

[DrJay]

What turbine?

[comrad]

Supposedly around 70-74 or so. Maybe the unit could be insulted for sound.
LOL, Insulted, :p:

[^don.k's^]

What will you do with 127ºC air? :confused: It looks like a turbine engine... :stick:

[DrJay]

LOL, Insulted, :p:
Yep, if insulating doesn't reduce the noise try insulting the vortex tube......might be able to shame it into quietness.

[odb]

get 3 of them going at the same time, heh

[Master_G]

1 000 000 RPM LOL now that is Xtreme.

G

[dr_sharp]

Do you plan on running a closed loop or open? Meaning is the air going to be cycled or will it just keep taking in air from the surroundings?

[DrJay]

Do you plan on running a closed loop or open? Meaning is the air going to be cycled or will it just keep taking in air from the surroundings?
You could do that with a compressor feeding a tank, etc. Probably wouldn't be the most efficient to re-use the air exiting the hot end.....maybe just the cold air after you run it through a sealed heat sink of some kind. You could turn a heatsink into a kind of 'water block' for cold air.

EDIT: I may actually try this...only need ~100psi...... Looks like the best you could realistically hope for is about 30-40C below the temp. of the compressed gas. If you use compressed room air, temps may not be spectacular.

[alexio]

If you blow already cold gas (like just evaporated ln2 at -190 or CO2 gas from dry ice at -70) would it just ad to the temperaturedrop?

Lets say -70 from CO2 gas + -50 from turbine = -120 degrees C?

If it works like that it could be -50 + -190 = -240 degrees C, now that's xtreme !!!

[DrJay]

If you blow already cold gas (like just evaporated ln2 at -190 or CO2 gas from dry ice at -70) would it just ad to the temperaturedrop?

Lets say -70 from CO2 gas + -50 from turbine = -120 degrees C?

If it works like that it could be -50 + -190 = -240 degrees C, now that's xtreme !!!
I think it has to be something from a compressor / tank......not evaporated gas.
I'm not sure what the temp of compressed CO2 is....fairly cold, but I don't think it is -70 like frozen CO2. Hopefully an expert can correct me here...

[alexio]

Dry ice evapoates at -78.5 1bar, the compressor allso makes a bit of a vacuum so -70 would be accurate I think but that wasn't the point.

I think you can just use a compressor to "pump" the CO2 gas to the vortex tube, the only thing I'm wondering is if it just ads to the subzero temperature the tube creates itself.

[Master_G]

If you blow already cold gas (like just evaporated ln2 at -190 or CO2 gas from dry ice at -70) would it just ad to the temperaturedrop?

Lets say -70 from CO2 gas + -50 from turbine = -120 degrees C?

If it works like that it could be -50 + -190 = -240 degrees C, now that's xtreme !!!
Surely the substance would just return to it's previous state if it was cooled again, so the nitrogen would become liquid again and the CO2 would become solid.

G

[alexio]

Yep didn't thought about that, if there is liquid or solid material in the vortex tube at such high rpm it will destroy itself. Maybe you can make solid nitrogen :banana:

[Gray Mole]

I suppose the venturi effect cooled carburators for years, why not an amplified effect?

I wouldn't blow straight at it, but a 'blow through' into a heatsink finned area on the cpu with a slight airflow reduction would work well, and minimize wasted effort...you still wouldn't get the same effectiveness of a good single stage phase unit, but pretty close as long as the cooled finned area were large enough...then the heatsink would be insulated similarly to an evap head...

Still really only good for bench rigs though, direct blast and you're looking to get the air out of the rest of the case, side blast and you can't really have a 'front' of the case...

Good use for an air compressor while you're not using it tho..

Gray

[DrJay]

Dry ice evapoates at -78.5 1bar, the compressor allso makes a bit of a vacuum so -70 would be accurate I think but that wasn't the point.

I think you can just use a compressor to "pump" the CO2 gas to the vortex tube, the only thing I'm wondering is if it just ads to the subzero temperature the tube creates itself.
Yeah, i know that wansn't your point. I wanted to point out that I don't think the CO2 gas wil stay at the temp it evaporates at. If you've got some sort of PC system giving you a supply of CO2 gas at or near those temps,....then just use that and skip the vortex tube altogether.
The point: If you start out with -78 CO2 gas, can you gain another 30-40C? I guess that would depend on what temps the CO2 would stay gaseous at given 100PSI. Seems like the tube wouldn't work with a liquid.

[craig588]

My shop is mainly pnumatic, it would be easy to move my benching setup out there and I could get 250 PSI air. If these happen to work well I have alot of little 1 to 2 HP compressors that can easily put out 100PSI. I can make a copper ducting system to exhaust the hot air outside.

[trance565]

lol, most of you do understand this requires an aircompressor right?

and to get to 100 +psi, it takes a bit of power, and then to keep it tehre, it takes a bit more power, now i dun know about any of you, but i have a 150 psi compressor for doing things to our cars, and well, its got more than 70 db from that thing alone, so really, u get 70+db from teh aircompressor then u get 70+ db from the vortex blower deal, u got a good concert of bursting ear drums, especially in a small room

now, if u are using a hs and fan, and ur fan dies with out u knowing, you could use this to cool ur heatsink and what not, but really, i dun see anyother applications that would be worthwhile, even benching, i wouldnt use it

[DrJay]

lol, most of you do understand this requires an aircompressor right?

and to get to 100 +psi, it takes a bit of power, and then to keep it tehre, it takes a bit more power, now i dun know about any of you, but i have a 150 psi compressor for doing things to our cars, and well, its got more than 70 db from that thing alone, so really, u get 70+db from teh aircompressor then u get 70+ db from the vortex blower deal, u got a good concert of bursting ear drums, especially in a small room

now, if u are using a hs and fan, and ur fan dies with out u knowing, you could use this to cool ur heatsink and what not, but really, i dun see anyother applications that would be worthwhile, even benching, i wouldnt use it
100PSI isn't that much. You could just put a compressor outside and run a line inside to the computer. Or some kind of sound isolation around the compressor. The compressor motor / piston wouldn't be running constantly.

[trance565]

my 5hp compressor, has to run the whole time if i take my air blower deallie, and hold it open at 100psi, and then it starts to lose psi, so, idunno if craftsman has a hardtime doin it ....

[DrJay]

Hmmmmm,....many obstacles. There has got to be a way. I wonder if Fugger has come up with something already.

[FUGGER]

Alexio, sorry for the late reply.

It works with gasses. The possibilities just opened up even more. Long duration is the problem though but it might be possible to mix them with a valve and introduction of something like nitrogen.

Would be cool to test some stuff in the near future.

[trance565]

ur really gonna have a hard time using that thing for more than .... 20 mins at 100 psi, tho i guess thats just about enough time to do some benching, but seriously, there is noway this could be used in a practical sense, it would be more expensive than prolly a cascade

[chilly1]

Yes, but there is the possibility of using this principle with a refrigerant in an evaporator and getting autocascade temps with one gas. I am looking into the principle behind it and just maybe we can apply this to my evaps.

[Entity_Razer]

yhea but you still have the exhaust going up to 127°C

....

And personally, I feel a Chilly, PCIce, or whatever evap will work a lot better overall. Less noise, less BS, no exhaust like that, and a lot cooler to go to lans to :)

[trance565]

Yes, but there is the possibility of using theis pinciple with a refrigerant in an evaporator and getting autocascade temps with one gas. I am looking into the principle bejind it and just maybe we can apply this too my evaps.

the way i see it, it will never be a pracitcal use for cooling the computer, for short amounts of time, perhaps, but for anything longterm, no way

[chilly1]

yhea but you still have the exhaust going up to 127°C

....

And personally, I feel a Chilly, PCIce, or whatever evap will work a lot better overall. Less noise, less BS, no exhaust like that, and a lot cooler to go to lans to :)
Well that would then be the returning gas to the compresor and I think it may be a proportional to the entering gas temperature.

[sluflyer06]

wow..i'm impressed by the principle and the implementation of it...however...guys...look at the standard cubic feet per minute (scfm) @100psi..thats an ENORMOUS requirement for flow, your looking at an industrial compressor...here is one I found that will fit the bill for a unit that will do the -50ish temps...
Model SRSH-125-185
(Rotary Screw Compressor)
The hydraulically driven 125-185 cfm module units give you all the versatility and quality that's made American Eagle the leader in PTO rotary screw compressors.
• Single stage
• Asymmetrical lobe profile rotors
• Capacity: 125 cfm @ 100 psig @ 1600 rpm
• Capacity: 185 cfm @ 150 psig @ 2000 rpm
• Dimensions: 41.5 ”L x 30 ”H x 39 ”W
• Weight: 600 pounds

just so you know for HP requirements start looking for a motor with approx. 30HP

[trance565]

you can get a 150 psi compressor with 5 hp, but it wont be able to keep pressure at 100 psi for more than 5 mins,which is why im saying unless you wanna spend ALOT of money on a highpowered, noisey ass machine + the noisy little vortex tube, dont do it its not even worth it, its cheaper to go phase change