2GB! Xtreme Divider! Not so Xtreme Bandwidth! [Archive]

gundamit

05-29-2005, 12:23 PM

Looks like I may be on the right track now trying to get 2gigs of memory to run for EQ2. I took two wrong turns with attempts with 2x1024 Geil Value sticks (now happily sitting in my P4 rig at 269:215 5:4 divider after failing to hit stock speeds on my LP-NF4-SLI-DR when using any divider) and a 4x512mb mixed set of TMSP CH and BH UTT which I finally gave up on this morning due to them being extremely sensitive to voltage and timings. The UTT are either pulling in different directions due to some differences, or the newer set (which I never tested alone) is an underachiever.

After thinking about getting some OCZ or Gigaram (who?) I finally decided on getting two sticks of Transcend 1GB. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820208125) Why Transcend? Because like me, they are cheap. ;) Also, reading that they used Samsung UCCC, piqued my curiosity.

After struggling so long with the UTT I just wanted to start playing games as soon as possible (yes I wanted to kill something) so I set everything to auto except the major timings and also selected a Tref Eva2000 suggested for the 414-3 bios. I went straight for the 2:3 133 divider knowing I'd need it to get my 3000+ anywhere close to its ceiling. Ran off memtest #5 until I was satified I wouldn't bork my Win OS and started a SuperPi 32M. Went outside to wash the car, when I came back in I was surprised to find that it had finished. :woot:

http://img98.echo.cx/img98/7561/312x133x934481pz.th.jpg (http://img98.echo.cx/my.php?image=312x133x934481pz.jpg)

I'd like to get any suggestions anyone might have on how to push it a bit. I know 1gig stick won't OC much but I would like to get the bandwidth numbers up some more. In the meantime I'm going to game test them. City of Heroes has free play for any old accounts that have expired, this weekend. Check out my character TheClap (http://img97.echo.cx/my.php?image=slienchancedcoh9py.jpg) on the Justice server.

gundamit

05-30-2005, 09:47 PM

Wow! This thread is on fire! One view in one day and I think it was mine. :rolleyes: CPU-Z statistics report only 2.75% of users are running 2gigs so I suppose that would explain the interest. :p:

I'd pushed for more but my processor doesn't want to hit its old 3ghz 24/7 gaming speeds with 2gigs. I dropped the multi down to 8 and I can go to 222 speed on the memory before it giv errors on memtest.

Going to see if its game stable at 2.9ghz
http://img247.echo.cx/img247/1509/324x133x934485jv.jpg

gundamit

05-31-2005, 05:08 AM

In less than a day the views have doubled ... going from one to two! With that kind of interest how I can I fail to at least try to push this memory farther. :rolleyes: 2.9Ghz proved game stable so I took a stab at 3ghz. Looking good right now.

http://img19.echo.cx/img19/4237/334x133x934485qa.jpg

But thats about the limit for my Winnie, so I'll have to drop the multi to 8 and maybe go with another divider if I want to play with it further. I'm still looking for more suggestions on tref/dividers combos.

Maybe I should have gone with a less goofy thread title? If I had gone with something like "World Record CPU OC using 2Gig " I would have had members running in here since "WR" usually works like a laxitive on some members. Maybe someone has access to the CPU-Z database and the 2% of records with 2gig of memory, so they can confirm I do not in fact have a an obscure and useless record. ;)

Crankster

05-31-2005, 05:12 AM

Very nice!

gundamit

05-31-2005, 05:56 AM

Thanks Crankster. I thought I was the only one reading this stuff. :D

To give you an idea of how the bandwidth might scale if my Winnie were willing, I ran one more test before I retreat on the multi.
http://img101.echo.cx/img101/1904/345x133x934481tw.jpg

eva2000

05-31-2005, 06:00 AM

nice :)

i think the large slow loading images have something to do with lack of replies heh

gundamit

05-31-2005, 07:19 AM

Eva2000, glad to see you here since you're the one who really started this mess with your post on the OCZ 2x1024. ;) Sorry about the pic size or hosting slowing everything down, but I think the real reason is still the lack of interest (at least among pure benchers, not gamers - and maybe not a lot of the latter) in 2gig set-ups.

I think these sticks will do very close to what your OCZ did (they're getting real flaky around 230 now) but won't match on bandwidth. Still price wise they're a pretty good deal.

I wonder what these sticks would do in the hands of a master? Yes, that is a none too subtle hint ...

gundamit

05-31-2005, 10:24 AM

Bah! These sticks might be all in at 220. They seem very sensitive to voltage adjustments. Next weekend I'll play with the timings a bit more and see if going back to the standard pin arrangement on the voltage jumpers makes any difference.
http://img66.echo.cx/img66/9849/330x133x833386gi.jpg

JNav89GT

05-31-2005, 01:47 PM

nice topic I think. I'm interested in upgrading to 2gb myself. My experiences with 2GB kits are that they will run fine at or near 200mhz but much past that and I have problems. Not sure if it's my memory controller or what?

[XC] moddolicous

05-31-2005, 01:59 PM

nice results. One way to get higher bandwith would be to lower the cas to 2.5 Not sure if u can though.

Otter

06-01-2005, 01:39 AM

My experiences with 2GB kits are that they will run fine at or near 200mhz but much past that and I have problems. Not sure if it's my memory controller or what?
I think it's the high-density chips. I haven't seen anyone post high overclocks or low latencies with 2x1GB setups.

gundamit

06-01-2005, 03:23 AM

If you have to have 2gigs in your system which is the better choice? 2x1024 with loose timings, small overclock and 1T ... or ... 4x512 tight timings respectble overclock and 2T? I was leaning towards 4x512 before, but now it seems if you can get your dividers working you still have a good chance to get a nice CPU OC. As far as the performance difference with 4x512, I noticed that OPB has a picture showing a 3000+ Winnie with 4x512 Gskill PC4800 running 9x300 1:1 2.5-4-3-5 with a 32M SuperPi checking in 29:33. What conclusion would draw from those numbers?

At some point I would hope memory controllers would imporve to the point where 4x512 1T would be possible. But that same improvement might also improve the OC ability of 2x1024. The question may never be settled before we all move off to DDR2 and then all bets are off.

I'm still game for another go at 4x512. I ordered another pair of TWSP UTT from NewEgg this morning.

Here's a link to OPB's fuzzy screenshot. (http://img81.exs.cx/img81/8469/2gbff71rs.jpg)

dippyskoodlez

06-01-2005, 03:53 AM

hmm... I'd probably go with the 2x 1gb.. so you can keep 1t and everything.. 220mhz isnt too bad :D beats the heck out of my512mb stick of generic stuff :D

Would like to see some benchies tho.

gundamit

06-01-2005, 04:27 AM

Would like to see some benchies tho. I pretty sure when I get my 4x512 set-up going, it'll be close on SuperPi but I'm not sure how the 3D will play out. I'll start posting results on Saturday.

Otter

06-01-2005, 04:53 AM

Corsair
http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/guides/AN501_Latency_Settings_and_Performance.pdf
tested various timings using DOOM3 @ 640x480. That's not a typical gaming scenario these days, but at least it uses the RAM in a realistic way.

Compared to 2-2-2-5-1T.
3-2-2-5-1T is 2.54% slower.
2-3-2-5-1T is 2.25% slower.
2-2-3-5-1T is 0.66% slower.
2-2-2-5-2T is 3.29% slower.
2-2-2-8-1T is equal to 2-2-2-5-1T, so we can ignore tRAS.

Do a little math, and it appears that 2-2-2-2T will outperform 3-3-3-1T, by about 2%. 2-3-2-1T and 2-2-2-2T appear to be about equal.

ATM, I'm thinking 4x512 DS will have a slight edge on 4x512 SS and 2x1GB, but that the differences will be small and price will probably govern my choice of 2GB solutions.

Though increased overclocks with the 4x solutions might not get much more performance, the flexibility might come in handy when overclocking the CPU. Patriot's 2-3-2 2x1GB apparently won't even overclock to 209 at stock timings.

I'm still game for another go at 4x512. I ordered another pair of TWSP UTT from NewEgg this morning.[/URL]
Looking forward to your results. :)

Crankster

06-01-2005, 04:57 AM

Freecableguy did 4x512 BH-5 @ 250 2-2-2-5 btw.
So it has been done. He was on an intel platform though and i haven't seen very much A64 and 2 gig about. Intel with HT and stuff seems to be more fitting for 2 gigs.
I'm sure that will change with X2 from amd.

gundamit

06-01-2005, 11:47 AM

Bah! These sticks might be all in at 220. They seem very sensitive to voltage adjustments. Very sensitive. Just altered the speed and voltage a bit. 2.7v + the +.03v option on in the bios. Now at 225 and posting a better SuperPi 32M than the 2x1024 OCZ Eva2000 had at the same CPU and memory speed. Just a different divider, multi and HTT. :)
http://img112.echo.cx/img112/6979/337x133x833381up.jpg

R.Rabbit

06-01-2005, 12:47 PM

with all that money you're spending, might as well get a venice core for the better memory controller! i'd say go for 2x1g with the wichester core, but if you do go venice, id try 4x512 bh-5
edit: hmm 4x512 tccd might be a good idea.. with less voltage requirements they will be more stable than bh-5, im guessing at 2gig vdimm related stability is a problem..

Soulburner

06-01-2005, 11:03 PM

Corsair
http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/guides/AN501_Latency_Settings_and_Performance.pdf
tested various timings using DOOM3 @ 640x480. That's not a typical gaming scenario these days, but at least it uses the RAM in a realistic way.

Compared to 2-2-2-5-1T.
3-2-2-5-1T is 2.54% slower.
2-3-2-5-1T is 2.25% slower.
2-2-3-5-1T is 0.66% slower.
2-2-2-5-2T is 3.29% slower.
2-2-2-8-1T is equal to 2-2-2-5-1T, so we can ignore tRAS.

Do a little math, and it appears that 2-2-2-2T will outperform 3-3-3-1T, by about 2%. 2-3-2-1T and 2-2-2-2T appear to be about equal.

ATM, I'm thinking 4x512 DS will have a slight edge on 4x512 SS and 2x1GB, but that the differences will be small and price will probably govern my choice of 2GB solutions.

Though increased overclocks with the 4x solutions might not get much more performance, the flexibility might come in handy when overclocking the CPU. Patriot's 2-3-2 2x1GB apparently won't even overclock to 209 at stock timings.

Looking forward to your results. :)
My PDP did 230-240 3-3-3 2.75v on my Intel so you must have seen some bad sticks...

Anyway here is some Redline, never got them running at 2-2-2 like they were rated though :mad:

http://home.neb.rr.com/soulburner/My%20Rig/250%204x512.jpg

The Ballistix look really good though, there is a thread here with a similar clock but 2x1gb will get you a 1T timing and quite a bit less volts than a 4x512 setup. Still debating whether changing them out for 1T is worth it over 2T? I'm not sure it would be if it is only going to get me a few fps.

gundamit

06-02-2005, 03:20 AM

@ Soulburner. Nice Redline 4x512 at 250. I'm sure any combination of 2x512 they're doing a lot better. I'd be more than a little happy if I can get 4x512 TMSP at 250 because thats where I have run my old Mushkin old BH-5 and TMSP CH UTT 2x512 to get my CPU at its 24/7 game stable speed of 3ghz. I'll settle for 240. The tie breaker on whether I go with 2x1024 1T or 4x512 2T will be a few 3D tests, bandwidth and seat of the pants tests.

Any chance you'll be posting up some bandwidth results running your memory at that speed/timing but with the multi set a bit higher? :D

tjj

06-02-2005, 03:36 AM

Otter

06-02-2005, 03:45 AM

My PDP did 230-240 3-3-3 2.75v on my Intel so you must have seen some bad sticks...

Maybe not. You either loosened the timings or you've got the 3-3-3 "signature" series RAM. The timings matter because low latency is more important for an A64 than high bandwidth. 2-3-2 @200 will probably beat 3-3-3 @235 if the CPU is an A64.

With a P4, of course, it's the other way around. Timings don't matter much because latency is going to be high anyway, but bandwidth is very important.

Mikesta

06-02-2005, 06:25 AM

Tjj. That guy has insane 2GB action! Personally I'm gonna need 2GB action when X2 comes along, 1 GB for each core. I just hope that the X2 mem controllers are up to it.

Somehow however I don't think they would be much better then Venice or SD if they are at all.........

We will have to wait till A64 gets DDR2 action. By then I reckon there will be 4-2-2-x @ 800Mhz 1GB modules around. Personally I hope that I will be able to use 4 of these hypothetical babys. Hoping that the next gen A64 controllers are up to it!

dippyskoodlez

06-02-2005, 07:28 AM

brandinb

06-02-2005, 08:32 AM

gundamit

06-02-2005, 09:20 AM

buy ballistix 1gb kit then you are guaranteed 250mhz or your money back from them 30day

also most of those kits do 2.5-2-2 at 250mhz so i would seriously consider that and keeping 1t timing over 2t timing and 4x512 of utt stuffs

Huh? Are you talking about getting 2 1gig sticks from Crucial? The only 1gig sticks Ballistix lists does not come in a 2gig kit. The only Ballistix 1gig stick that Crucial lists is Crucial part number BL12864Z503 (http://www.crucial.com/ballistix/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=A65A1F52A5CA7304&WSMD=LANPARTY+UT+nF4+SLI%2DDR&WSPN=BL12864Z503) which has timings of 3-4-4-8 and priced at almost $200 a stick. Guaranteed PC4000 speed would be nice but at that price I'd rather save the money for my next video card. Still they would be nice to test ...

gundamit

06-02-2005, 09:28 AM

How about that? This was posted @ XS some time ago. I have no idea by whome, don't quite remember. Would really like to have a word with that gentleman.. :D

Personally, i've ordered 2 kits of TwinMOS Twister BH-5 1GB (2x512MB). IC / Winbond UTT BH-5. I'll also hook up a 25cfm 80mm FAN right on the 4 DIMM slots, since all of them will get populated. The whole shabang arrives next week, we'll post results.
3200+ 'Venice' + PowerStream 520 + DFI nF4
That picture looks familiar ... but I can't find the original post after searching for quite a while. Awesome speed on those sticks.

Looking forward to seeing your results with those new parts. I just ordered another
520W PowerStream for $102.50 +tax/shipping =$121. (http://www.onsale.com/onsale/shop/detail~dpno~555646.asp) Warm deal, great PSU.

Alucard-

06-02-2005, 07:53 PM

I have some ocz perf 3500 sticks they only like to run 3-3-3-7 but they clock upto 490 stable and get alittle over 7000mbs/se in everest. I don't think the looser timings make that big of difference with the 1 gig sticks they seem to bench pretty well compared to most 512's runnings at 2 2 2 5. I was going to try and get the ocz plat 2 gig kit but I saw a review of some 2 3 2 5 sticks and they only did 436 with 3 4 4 8 timings so I think I'll stay far away from them for now.

gundamit

06-03-2005, 02:05 AM

I looked at the OCZ PC-3500 (OCZ4332048PFDC-K) but balked at the price of
$359 from Monarch. (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=140322&AFFIL=pricewatch&NR=1) Your results look great though. Would like to get some details on the HTT, dividers and multis used to go 2.7ghz on air. Would also like anyone running 2gigs to answer my informal poll question: Which application or game made you decide to run 2gigs of memory?

Otter

06-03-2005, 05:06 PM

Huh? Are you talking about getting 2 1gig sticks from Crucial? The only 1gig sticks Ballistix lists does not come in a 2gig kit.

Crucial doesn't sell dual channel kits. Instead, they promise that if you order two of the same part number at a time, they will work in dual channel mode. I haven't heard about anyone having any problems with Crucial in DC, so either their quality control is better than the rest of the industry, or the dual channel kits are more about marketing than engineering.

gundamit

06-04-2005, 12:50 PM

Just starting to play with my 4 TMSP BH UTT sticks now. They're all from week 0509.
Hopefully I'll get a little farther than this. (http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=21255)

tjj

06-04-2005, 01:39 PM

i can't wait to test my batch out.. :P

though i do need a PCI-e gfx card.. hmm,
i wouldn't really want to run xp.64 @ a 32MB passively cooled PCI Riva TNT M64 .. :D:D

X850XT is on the way from UK..

Playful_Buffalo

06-04-2005, 03:10 PM

nice work :)

gundamit

06-05-2005, 02:58 AM

... before the system froze while playing EQ2. Prior to that I only did five passes on memtest #5 at 321x9 3:4 divider for 240 memory speed with 3.2v. Took a longer run at memtest #5 and errors started popping up.

I decided to do a real burn-in and forget about gaming today. Here are the early results.
http://img297.echo.cx/img297/2962/burnintest5wx.jpg
I think its working because the first 200 passes came up with 28 errors and the second 200 passes gave only 10. I'd like to get to 243 rock stable so I can compare the bandwidth and SuperPi 32M scores with the 2.92ghz run I made with the 2x1024. Preliminary testing showed about 6800 on bandwidth but about the same SuperPi.

gundamit

06-05-2005, 05:34 AM

Over 500 passes with no errors on the last 150+ passes. Time to bump it up to 242. :)
http://img285.echo.cx/img285/1944/burninend240run1zo.jpg

tjj

06-05-2005, 09:06 AM

somewhat an update..

I have posted this before. I am currently running 245 MHz w/2-2-2-10-2T timings @ 3.3 volts w/ 4 * 512 Mushkin Blue. This is with a crappy winny that only gets ~ 2.2 GHz (can't wait for a venice or san diego, then maybe 1T and ~ 2.7 - 2.8 GHz). I get ~ 4100 unbuffered w/sandra and ~ 2800 MB/s in Memtest. I did have it up to 249 MHz @ 3.4 volts, but would rather use 3.3 volts. There is improvement using 2 GB of memory. Everything seems more smooth. I am happy with the setup. This is on the DFI UltraD, and I was even running this with a TTGI/Super Flower 550 Watt 20 pin PSU, although I did get a Seasonic S12 500 Watt. I didn't notice any improvement with it though, but it should do well when I get an ATi AMR setup with an AMD dual core.

gundamit

06-05-2005, 11:13 AM

The numbers that josanai has listed looked pretty good but I'm wondering if his Winnie was completely to blame for the low OC on the CPU. Seems like my rig with the 4x512 is having some problems hitting the same CPU speed I got with the 2x1024. I'm getting some freezing problems in EQ2 as low as 2.8ghz when the memory is backed down to 234. :confused:

Something new I've seen in memtest at 243 is the sytem freezing right before it completes a loop of test #5. Does any one know what this might be a symptom of? Got the same thing even when I bumped it up to 3.3v.

After my next burn-in session (242 at 3.2v) I think I'll try CAS 2.5 to see if its more stable.

gundamit

06-05-2005, 04:45 PM

Making a little progress now, so I'm going to post some results. Still too early to tell where things will end up. This is on the 310 bios all auto except for CAS and DDS=8 DDDS=4.

http://img297.echo.cx/img297/3797/242x133x923362t1qj.jpg

Still too early to tell where this is going. :D

Dumo

06-05-2005, 07:43 PM

I tried with combination of Gskill LA and Mushkin Blue/utt @ 240 / 2-2-2-5 and 3.1V with UltraD and 2.17 bios...

gundamit

06-05-2005, 08:00 PM

I tried with combination of Gskill LA and Mushkin Blue/utt @ 240 / 2-2-2-5 and 3.1V with UltraD and 2.17 bios... Here's the link to your thread
TCCD440 and BH5 combo @ 4x512 (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58667) Bookmarked for Tweaker settings. Thanks. :D

BTW - Awesome clocks on your FX with 4x512mb. Thats got to be a WR for AMD CPU speed with 2gig memory, yes?

Dumo

06-05-2005, 08:32 PM

BTW - Awesome clocks on your FX with 4x512mb. Thats got to be a WR for AMD CPU speed with 2gig memory, yes?Thanks gundamit :toast: I dunno, never check it. Heres with 55 san diego and bios 414-3...still have to run with 2T :( ..default settings on a64 tweaker
http://img22.echo.cx/img22/5594/screenshot0382ac.jpg

xgman

08-17-2005, 07:39 AM

Why Transcend? Because like me, they are cheap. ;) Also, reading that they used Samsung UCCC, piqued my curiosity.

Same chips in the ocz ddr500 2 gig sets.

fareastgq

08-17-2005, 08:04 AM

Maybe not. You either loosened the timings or you've got the 3-3-3 "signature" series RAM. The timings matter because low latency is more important for an A64 than high bandwidth. 2-3-2 @200 will probably beat 3-3-3 @235 if the CPU is an A64.

With a P4, of course, it's the other way around. Timings don't matter much because latency is going to be high anyway, but bandwidth is very important.

PDP 2 gig sets come in either 3 3 3 timings or 2 3 2 timings. they can do anywhere from 210 - 240, most have been getting on avg 230 HTT with the 2 3 2 sets. I agree with soulburner, u just had some bad luck or u just need to tweak your ram a bit more. My sticks can run 216htt no sweat at 2 3 2 5, 2.5 3 2 5 = 229 htt and 3 3 3 did not help me at all. U see, merely luck of the draw.