News: Creative Xi-Fi launched!

[saaya]

Creative launched their new Audio solution, the Xi-Fi chip today!
This all-new patent pending DSP architecture has 4 hardware threads, which why it is named the "Quartet" DSP
so its pretty much a quad core spu? :o

made in 130nm process
51.1M transistors
400Mhz clockspeed
10.340 MIPS theoretical overall processing power (equivalent to a P4 3.4Ghz)

creative claims it can improve the sound quality of all your mp3s and other encoded audio files by reconstructing how they probably sounded before they were encoded. nice feature! reminds me of de-interlacing on video :)



read all about Creatives Xi-Fi on Creatives Site (http://www.soundblaster.com/products/x-fi/technology/)
theres a nice discussion about Xi-Fi here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63362)
and dont forget to check out this sweet launch video! (http://www.soundblaster.com/tk/tk.asp?downloadtypefk=1&fn=http://images.soundblaster.com/products/x-fi/technology/animation/X-Fi-720x576_stereo.zip)
according to vr-zone (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2243&s=1) it will be available in august already



http://img89.echo.cx/img89/7862/26ar.th.jpg (http://img89.echo.cx/my.php?image=26ar.jpg) http://img89.echo.cx/img89/1549/38oa.th.jpg (http://img89.echo.cx/my.php?image=38oa.jpg) http://img89.echo.cx/img89/7602/47er.th.jpg (http://img89.echo.cx/my.php?image=47er.jpg) http://img89.echo.cx/img89/4382/59do.th.jpg (http://img89.echo.cx/my.php?image=59do.jpg) http://img158.echo.cx/img158/6425/68gv.th.jpg (http://img158.echo.cx/my.php?image=68gv.jpg) http://img158.echo.cx/img158/8456/70gr.th.jpg (http://img158.echo.cx/my.php?image=70gr.jpg)

[pablo]

should be interesting lol

[Jester FPS]

If you're a gamer there is simply no other choice. Whatever audio card/solution you use today - prepare to throw it away! Whatever you thought was possible with audio in games - you are about to be amazed!

I can't wait :banana:

[DilTech]

So how much is this thing going to cost?...I run a sound studio out of my house, and it looks to be the PERFECT audio card for me!

[krille]

Yay! Just bought my SB Audigy 4 Pro $300 less than a month ago :stick:

No, really, what price it's going to be will depend on availability, that's the real quesiton here. For some reason I doubt we'll be seeing this in stores for some time. Moreover, they'll prolly cripple this thing (drivers/lasers/whatever) a lot before it reaches the end-user anyway, it's not like they don't want to be selling any upgrades/launch new products over the next decade.

[Playful_Buffalo]

how much power draw?

[saaya]

about the price, they keep mentioning that it wont cost too much, but considering their top solution costs 300$ i havemy doubts their idea of "low costs" fit our ideas of low costs :D

55M transistors in 130nm... that shouldnt be expensive... thats pretty much the amount of transistors of a geforce4ti or a radeon 8500, both were made in 150nm, and this is in 130nm, so the chip should be really small ie cheap, smaller than a tbredb core i think.
and 400mhz with 1.2v... i dont think it will run hot... the first chips will be clocked low and have parts disabled, they will probably increase the chip speed and enable extra parts bit by bit over the next years to be able to sell new top end products.

i think this chip will def need a heatsink, but i dont think it will need active cooling.

[saaya]

it will be available in august!
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=2243&s=1

[situman]

so that fatality ugly is going to promote the card when it launches or so vrzone states. doesn't that guy have a real job? BTW regular PCI or PCI-e?

[teqguy]

This is the reason I've been holding on to my Audigy Gamer for dear life and not springing for the Aud2 or Aud4.

Finally audiophiles can kiss the Emuk101 goodbye.

I'll finally be able to get the most out of my 7.2 surround sound setup.


And no, that Fatality guy doesn't have a real job. He's a 20-something year old "professional gamer" that would probably be living in his parents' basement playing QIII still if it weren't for this.

[iddqd]

Meh. Sound is way overrated.

[teqguy]

Meh. Sound is way overrated.


I'll buy you a set of earplugs and super glue then.

[_Eduard_]

Another core to the OC'ing list hehe...

CPU (x2 or more sometimes)
GPU (x2 or 4 sometimes)
PPU
APU
NB

:eek:

I'll first wait for this muttha to get a lil cheaper, untill then I'll have to hold out with "only" my A2ZS.

[mesyn191]

Blah, did you have to post thier crappy CGI PR pics!?

Anyways this sounds nice and all but what about the drivers? Currnet drivers for current Creative sound cards suck, and they've got this stupid driver authentication driver system on thier website like someone is going to go and steal their drivers WTF?

Is there word on if it'll use PCIE or PCI yet?

[teqguy]

I'm assuming it'll be based on both PCI and PCIe, considering Creative wants this card to come out strong and compensate for the less than stellar Zen and Audigy 4 sales(for the record, the Zen makes the iPod look like a Fisher Price toy, but it simply doesn't get enough advertising).

They were planning on releasing a PCIe based card called the Sound Blaster Zenith in March, which is basically just an Audigy 2 on PCIe.

I guess they decided to hold off and wait for the X-Fi. Maybe they'll keep the Zenith name, though.

[R.Rabbit]

wtf?? so is it watercooled??

[saaya]

Blah, did you have to post thier crappy CGI PR pics!?

Anyways this sounds nice and all but what about the drivers? Currnet drivers for current Creative sound cards suck, and they've got this stupid driver authentication driver system on thier website like someone is going to go and steal their drivers WTF?

Is there word on if it'll use PCIE or PCI yet?

come on, the video looks sweet :P

wtf?? so is it watercooled??
:eh: who said that?

[teqguy]

wtf?? so is it watercooled??

Were you raised on picture books? :rolleyes:


If you would've read the post instead of just looking at the pictures, you would find that they're just from the promotional video.

[aoc007]

PCI at launch, PCI-E later

[saratoga]

Hopefully this won't suck like every other creative card.

[Cyrilix]

Hopefully this won't suck like every other creative card.

Creative cards aren't known for supreme audio quality though. Most say that the Revolution 7.1 has better sound, although not as much support for games. Creative is sort of like a jack-of-all-trades. They dabble in a little bit of every market (in terms of sound).

[saaya]

there are better sound cards than creatives?
i thougt they had the best sound cards?

[DudeMiester]

No, the issue with creative's card is they use cheap DACs and their SRC sucks. However, they are extremely intent on solving the SRC issue now, and by the looks of it have in a very dramatic way. As for the DACs, well their Audigy 4 line has good ones, so you should be able to get good DACs if you know what to buy.

[saaya]

i got an audigy 2zs, is it worth to replace the dacs?
will i be able to hear a difference?
i have a creative 6.1 speaker set...
not worth it right?

[Skip]

so all i want is just this damn card, none of those breakout boxes with 50 audio INPUTS. all i want is the card dammit! which ought to make it cost around 100$ for just the card.

[mesyn191]

Probably not, you might be better off waitng til' a proper review is done of the new Creative card first...

[teqguy]

Most say that the Revolution 7.1 has better sound

Most of those people consider themselves audiophiles, too.

However, when you look at the rest of their sound system, you find that they're using internally amplified Logitechs, Creatives, or Altec Lansings.

Internally amplified speakers usually only have one driver, so the sound generated is always tinny.

The only way to create a quality listening experience is to have speakers that can generate a full range of frequencies, from highs with complete clarity to rich lows... which internally amplified speakers will probably never be able to do properly, or at least not cheaply.

[Quanticles]

...there's only so much information in a compressed file.

[teqguy]

...there's only so much information in a compressed file.

What is this in reference to?

[DudeMiester]

not worth it right?

If you demand perfect audio then it is, otherwise probably not. Still audio, like a fast computer, is one of those things where once you get good quality you can never go back. ;)

As for the reference to compressed audio, it refers to the Xi-Fi "Crystaliser" technology, which purports to take compressed audio and turn it back into a high quality uncompressed signal, and turn sterio into surround sound. Now, while you can do a few repairs on the signal, you can't make something out of nothing. That's why I'm VERY skeptical about their claims.

[krille]

i got an audigy 2zs, is it worth to replace the dacs?
will i be able to hear a difference?
i have a creative 6.1 speaker set...
not worth it right?
If you're speaking about A2ZS vs A4Pro it's certainly not worth it. Myself I'm using Logitech Z-5500 5.1 and I can't hear any difference really between my new fancy Audigy 4 Pro and my old Audigy (1) Platinum, the only difference *might* be a little better SNR on the A4 (sound/signal to noise ratio) i e less noise, and perhaps a better driver set w/ richer features, but it sure ain't worth the price tag imo (must confess I got greatly disappointed when I realized it still hadn't support for digital 5.1 output via coax/optical, i e no real time DD5.1-encoding). Short answer: No, hold on for X-Fi, the top X-Fi model will most certainly be worth the dough though.

If you demand perfect audio then it is, otherwise probably not. Still audio, like a fast computer, is one of those things where once you get good quality you can never go back. ;)

As for the reference to compressed audio, it refers to the Xi-Fi "Crystaliser" technology, which purports to take compressed audio and turn it back into a high quality uncompressed signal, and turn sterio into surround sound. Now, while you can do a few repairs on the signal, you can't make something out of nothing. That's why I'm VERY skeptical about their claims.
I agree. I never believed in Anisotropic Filtering and Anti-Aliasing anyway. :rolleyes:

[situman]

Less just hope there's an OEM model with all the features without all the fluff. 150 bucks is kinda doable if there is actual sound quality improvements.

[R.Rabbit]

Were you raised on picture books? :rolleyes:


If you would've read the post instead of just looking at the pictures, you would find that they're just from the promotional video.
maybe...

[saaya]

As for the reference to compressed audio, it refers to the Xi-Fi "Crystaliser" technology, which purports to take compressed audio and turn it back into a high quality uncompressed signal, and turn sterio into surround sound. Now, while you can do a few repairs on the signal, you can't make something out of nothing. That's why I'm VERY skeptical about their claims.

well think of deinterlacing on video files... pretty much the same thing, sint it?
or a filters in photoshop... you might not be able to get to the same quality of the original data, but you can get closed if you use a good algorythm. i dont know how exactly mp3s are compressed though so i better shut up :D

[teqguy]

i got an audigy 2zs, is it worth to replace the dacs?
will i be able to hear a difference?
i have a creative 6.1 speaker set...
not worth it right?

You definitely won't hear a distinct difference between the Aud2, Aud4, or the Xi-Fi(let's just codename it Zenith) with those speakers... or any other set of internally amplified speakers for that matter.

They just aren't equipping them with the right kind of speakers to generate the necessary range of frequencies. I'll admit, though, the drivers they do use have a wide range, but it can't compare to a nice set of loudspeakers with individual highs, mids, and lows.

When you try to generate sound at high volumes with these speakers, the audio distorts because they have really low impedance and can't handle a lot of wattage.

If you want, though, you can actually install the Audigy 4 drivers on the Audigy 2. I don't know if it'll improve the quality, but I know it wouldn't hurt it.

You can also try the kX audio driver, which is a third party driver that claims to produce better audio quality than the Creative driver. The only downside to it is that it doesn't support EAX. However, it comes with enough features that compensate for it.

It's available free here: http://kxproject.lugosoft.com


(must confess I got greatly disappointed when I realized it still hadn't support for digital 5.1 output via coax/optical, i e no real time DD5.1-encoding).

That's why you use an external amplifier that has a DSP that does Dolby Digital EX(at even 7.1, if you must), and not to mention the greatly superior DTS.

[teqguy]

In reference to compression, the optimal way their processing works is by filling in gaps where there would usually be a natural progression or digression of frequency, tone, volume, etc.

While this might not reproduce the audio as accurately as it once was, most people honestly can't tell the difference unless they know what to listen for. Usually, the hardest part to reproduce is around the high to mid range, where most dialogue and sound effects are typically situated.

High highs and low lows, however, do not suffer from any degredation through the uncompression.

As far as MP3 files are concerned, they are a lossy format... meaning that when they were encoded, some of the frequencies were either extracted or shifted to reduce the size of the file. It does a fairly good job at this- so much so, that it's very hard to distinguish the clarity between it and a song ripped to WAV(which is a lossless format).

There are algorithms worth trying that would make a lossy format into a lossless format, but there's nothing you can do to replace MP3. So, instead, people come up with their own formats, hence RM Audio, WMA, and whatever the hell Apple is using these days(it's hard to keep track)... and while they force people to use their formats every now and then, nobody is ever going to stray from MP3.

[shadowing]

From what I believe, Creative > All sound card producers.

Creative pwns!! :P

It'd be worth it to get this card. The launch video looks sweet!

[iddqd]

I could have sword I posted in this thread. Oh well. :(

Edit:
I, on the other hand do not welcome this product. With video cards that cost upwards of $500 and have to be replaced bi-annualy, and then physics add-in cards that appear to cost around the same, and also, will probably be obsolete at about the same pace... well an uber-expensive sound card is the last thing I want. Considering I use a $5 pair of headphones all the time, anyway.

[teqguy]

There are better sound cards than the Audigy series, such as the HDA Digital X-Mystique 7.1 Gold which retails for $100 and has full 7.1 channel Dolby Digital Live, Dolby Digital EX, and DTS support... not to mention integrated SPDIF and optical output.

Full details here: www.hidiaudio.com/products/mystique.html


If the Zenith isn't better than HDA's Mystique, the Mystique should probably be everyone's number one choice... considering the amount of features it has for the price of an Audigy 1.

[krille]

That's why you use an external amplifier that has a DSP that does Dolby Digital EX(at even 7.1, if you must), and not to mention the greatly superior DTS.Don't think I've been raised on picture books, but I really don't follow. Could you try to expand/rephrase that? :confused:
From what I believe, Creative > All sound card producers.

Creative pwns!! :P

It'd be worth it to get this card. The launch video looks sweet!yes, yes, base your buys on launch videos, buddy, we need more ppl like you ... :rolleyes:

There are better sound cards than the Audigy series, such as the HDA Digital X-Mystique 7.1 Gold which retails for $100 and has full 7.1 channel Dolby Digital Live, Dolby Digital EX, and DTS support... not to mention integrated SPDIF and optical output.

Full details here: www.hidiaudio.com/products/mystique.html


If the Zenith isn't better than HDA's Mystique, the Mystique should probably be everyone's number one choice... considering the amount of features it has for the price of an Audigy 1.What about the DACs? Cause if this card is as uber as you say for 1/3 of the price of my Audigy4, I'm starting to feel even more ripped off. :eek:

[shadowing]

yes, yes, base your buys on launch videos, buddy, we need more ppl like you ... :rolleyes:


That wasn't what I implied. :mad:

I only said that because I'm using a Creative Audigy 2 ZS. Its one of the best I've ever used.

[elec999]

Will this card require a cooler.
Thanks

[krille]

That wasn't what I implied. :mad:

I only said that because I'm using a Creative Audigy 2 ZS. Its one of the best I've ever used.
Sorry, mate, didn't mean no disrespect/offense. Just seemed to me your reply demanded a rebuke. :D

Anyway, when you say it like that it sounds like you've tried many? Myself I've only had 4-5 real sound cards (not counting integrated mobo sbs ofc), of which all have been Creative, I must confess so I can't say anything about M-Audio and the likes, however from what I've heard (from professional musicians, audio producers, audiophiles as well as speaker engineers/constructors etc... (my dad knows quite a few since he's an active audiophile himself)) M-Audio is the better brand atm (when it comes to sound quality, although for real-time effects in games Creatives EAX might still be wanted). Think it's got to do with the DACs or something, which tend to be lousy on Creative's products, but I'm not really into this stuff (just remotely interested, really). Just my 2 cents.

[krille]

Will this card require a cooler.
Thanks

We do not know as of yet. Hopefully, though, it'll only require passive cooling (51.1M transistors on 130nm is just a tiny, tiny die and clocked to 400 mhz it shouldn't produce *that* much heat...we're not speaking big-size GPUs/high-freq CPUs here.) Good case air flow is ofc a must (as always!). They'd most certainly be criticised a whole bit if they'd stick a 40mm high-rpm fan on this sucker. Although only time will tell.

[aoc007]

Yeah sounds like well be seeing a passive heatsink, thats it.

[teqguy]

Don't think I've been raised on picture books, but I really don't follow. Could you try to expand/rephrase that?

Instead of using the sound card's digital to analog conversion, you connect it to an amplifier via either SPDIF or optical and use its DAC.

Surround sound amplifiers have more ellaborate digital signal processing, which includes being able to handle DTS streams encoded at 96Khz/24bit.

When it comes down to DAC, each channel on an amplifier's DSP is discrete, meaning that it's processed and generated with absolute clarity, because it's not inhibited by the other channels.

Afaik, most sound cards' DACs are not entirely discrete, so they process the left and right, left rear and right rear, and center and subwoofer in three channels instead of six.


What about the DACs? Cause if this card is as uber as you say for 1/3 of the price of my Audigy4, I'm starting to feel even more ripped off.

I wouldn't know, nor would I care.

Like I said, I don't use any sound card's DAC and instead opt for an external amplifier.

I would assume that the DAC is fairly decent, if not better than M-Audio's Revolution, which uses a Via Envy24. The Mystique uses a C-Media CMI8768+.

As far as a comparison of features is concerned, the Mystique has Dolby Digital Live encoding/decoding and a built in optical out, in addition to everything else the Revolution has.


Oh, and as far as the clock frequency and cooling are concerned, it appears that the Xi-Fi is designed like the Cell, so portions of it will not always be active. This could also indicate that while the accumulative clock frequency is 400Mhz, each portion only works at 50Mhz.

However, this is an enormous step up from the EMUK101, which I believe is clocked at 33Mhz.

[Mastakilla]

the new chip will prolly work VERY well with those new DRM enabled intel chips!

Xifi + future Intel will end ur life for sure!

DRM overkill

[Pinnacle]

If you want, though, you can actually install the Audigy 4 drivers on the Audigy 2. I don't know if it'll improve the quality, but I know it wouldn't hurt it.

Ive tried this, and no it doesnt improve them. The Sound feels "heavy"

You can also try the kX audio driver, which is a third party driver that claims to produce better audio quality than the Creative driver. The only downside to it is that it doesn't support EAX. However, it comes with enough features that compensate for it.

Tried this too. They are good drivers. Why is it a downside that they dont have EAX? I find it useless. what do you find good about it?

[teqguy]

I don't use EAX, but a lot of games do.

If you're using internally amplified speakers(which most of you probably are), I've found that it can enrich mid to low range tones.

The bad part about it, though, is that it makes the highs sound tinny, which isn't very good when you have speakers that already sound tinny.


I'd also like to note that for the price of the Logitech Z-5500's, you could have a 6.1 ch amplifier and a full set of speakers. Even the cheapest bookshelf speakers can make the Logitechs sound like garbage.

I can't even believe Logitech is trying to sell those speaker sets with 18 gauge cable between them.

Ideally, you would want at least 14 gauge cable from your speakers to your amplifier. The lower the gauge, the thicker the wire. Thick wire reduces the impedance, which can improve audio quality tremendously.

I use plain old 10 gauge electrical wire and it works perfectly.

[$a1Ty]

hey teqguy you can probably answer my question, in terms of sound quality using optical outs, is there a difference between integrated sound on the mobo and any sound card for that matter, when sending to an external amp, cos does the sound still get processed in the comp

[krille]

Instead of using the sound card's digital to analog conversion, you connect it to an amplifier via either SPDIF or optical and use its DAC.

Surround sound amplifiers have more ellaborate digital signal processing, which includes being able to handle DTS streams encoded at 96Khz/24bit.

When it comes down to DAC, each channel on an amplifier's DSP is discrete, meaning that it's processed and generated with absolute clarity, because it's not inhibited by the other channels.

Afaik, most sound cards' DACs are not entirely discrete, so they process the left and right, left rear and right rear, and center and subwoofer in three channels instead of six.You sure seem to know your stuff, but I still don't see the light. I shall try to straighten things out here: SB Audigy 4 Pro will only send 5.1 sound by-pass via its digital outputs, i e if you're playing a game or doing something real-time only stereo will be sent digitally, but while watching a DVD-Movie, if you set it up correctly it will just send on the original DTS/DD data. And since you have to use the sound card's DAC if you intend to enjoy more channels than stereo when gaming, I don't see how your suggestion will help me in my situation. Please, correct me if I'm totally wrong, though.

Moreover about my Logitech Z-5500, they suit their purpose just fine (i e effects while gaming, watching movies on the computer and listening to music while doing things on the computer), I only use them for my computer and they're a hell of a lot better than any other computer speakers I've listened to before. (Although a "real" custom setup would own them big time, which I might be getting in the future.) cables? know nothing about them when it comes to sound, really, other than general cable principles. Eh, and yes, the sub-woofer KICKS ASS :rocker:

[teqguy]

hey teqguy you can probably answer my question, in terms of sound quality using optical outs, is there a difference between integrated sound on the mobo and any sound card for that matter, when sending to an external amp, cos does the sound still get processed in the comp

It depends on the audio controller.

Most motherboards these days use Realtek's AC97 controller, which tends to have a heavy reliance on the processor, even moreso than most onboard components. The audio quality is about the equivalent of the original Sound Blaster, although, it can handle more voices.

In a general sense, I would advise against using onboard audio for most practices, considering individual sound cards are tremendously better and don't rely on processor resources.


You sure seem to know your stuff, but I still don't see the light. I shall try to straighten things out here: SB Audigy 4 Pro will only send 5.1 sound by-pass via its digital outputs, i e if you're playing a game or doing something real-time only stereo will be sent digitally, but while watching a DVD-Movie, if you set it up correctly it will just send on the original DTS/DD data. And since you have to use the sound card's DAC if you intend to enjoy more channels than stereo when gaming.

Yeah, that's one of the inadequacies of all of the Creative cards... they don't map the channels without the proper signal.

So, what I've done is have two connections... one through optical and one through standard RCA component using a 1/4 jack to RCA cable. The RCA one is individually mapped to all 6 channels(so you'll need 3 cables).

When I'm playing a game or listening to music, I flip my amplifier to the multi-out setting... and while I'm watching a movie, I switch it to optical.


There are ways to modify the card to re-route the signal so it gets processed in 5.1/6.1/7.1, but it's something I wouldn't try on an Audigy 4.

Another option might be those kX drivers, because they have settings to reroute everything... however, I'm not all too sure because I haven't played with them much.

In any case, I hope they address this with the Zenith. If not, I'll invest in one of those Mystiques as a secondary card.

[krille]

Ok, thanks for your wisdom teqguy. I think I'll just hold on till Zenith, or whatever their first gen X-Fi sound cards will be out, though, and try to sell this one unmodded and intact, hopefully recovering at least some of the money spent. The SNR is actually acceptable as of Audigy 4 and Z-5500. Thanks! :thumbsup:

[flutie98]

if this can beat my emu 0404 in terms of clarity and range and still manage eax effects i will be amazed....

[Barkuti]

In all honesty, I'd say I couldn't care less about this chip, but it seems too good. It's a real pity Craptive made it. :nono:

Creative is one of the companies which has most largely benefitted from the closed standards (very important, remember 3Dfx?) and lack of competence (hence consumer choices) in the low-mid 90's; that allowed them to grow into a fat ass dinosaur you just can't beat.

However, they have been largely overrated because of this. They have been selling you the same hardware for years, and have never designed it properly (why didn't they implemented hardware chips for legacy emulation in the SB Live!, for example? Software emulation sucked). Their software is a piece of system cloggin' fat bloatware crap, most of the time it's confusing to get updated drivers and their support just plain sux :slapass: . It's ok if you use 3rd party drivers to get some additional features, but having to use them because official ones suck... For me, they can :kissbutt: my ass. They really deserve to be raped and be blown out of the audio industry. :bananal: :explode2:

My :2cents:

Cheers

[krille]

In all honesty, I'd say I couldn't care less about this chip, but it seems too good. It's a real pity Craptive made it. :nono:

Creative is one of the companies which has most largely benefitted from the closed standards (very important, remember 3Dfx?) and lack of competence (hence consumer choices) in the low-mid 90's; that allowed them to grow into a fat ass dinosaur you just can't beat.

However, they have been largely overrated because of this. They have been selling you the same hardware for years, and have never designed it properly (why didn't they implemented hardware chips for legacy emulation in the SB Live!, for example? Software emulation sucked). Their software is a piece of system cloggin' fat bloatware crap, most of the time it's confusing to get updated drivers and their support just plain sux :slapass: . It's ok if you use 3rd party drivers to get some additional features, but having to use them because official ones suck... For me, they can :kissbutt: my ass. They really deserve to be raped and be blown out of the audio industry. :bananal: :explode2:

My :2cents:

CheersInteresting first post. And, yes, welcome to XS! :toast:

[$a1Ty]

he has a point tho, creative really does suck, then again what prosumer product doesnt

[krille]

never said he hadn't. but for x-fi we'll simply have to wait, although creative might not improve anything else in their hardware... :rolleyes:

[Barkuti]

If I remember correctly, they ever went to the point of asking money for an updated driver CD :gay: , sometime after the launch of their original Audigy series of cards. I could read many complaints about this in some spanish forums. Sometime ago tough.

Cheers

[Mesce]

The only problems with creative for me is that you cant get audigy drivers anywhere not even on the web-site and you have to aquire the drivers from some where else.

The X-fi will be released, thousands will buy it and IT will be the best sound card ever made. Look at the competition they have.

[b0bd0le]

hardware is awful, driver support is awful. Creative needs to die. EAX was a complete & utter joke. Oh and their marketing is AWFUL. It's even worse than Apple's marketing.

Have you guys not heard about the class action lawsuit that was just settled by creative?

Creative claimed that the products in question could handle 24-bit audio at 96Khz – indeed this was stated on the product boxes in bold letters, and in all advertising. But complaints filed in 2003 pointed out that this was only true in a very limited set of circumstances, and pretty much all of the audio passing through the cards would actually be processed at lower quality.
http://theinquirer.net/?article=22019

and as for the x-fi's "crystalizer technology"

"All CD music is in 16-bit resolution, which is typically compressed from an original 24-bit studio recording. When converting CD music to MP3 format, the music is compressed yet again. These types of compression result in a compromise of audio quality and clarity. The Creative X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor drives new applications that can enhance MP3s by bringing them back to 24-bit quality, and allows the user to upgrade the music to multichannel surround sound. This enhancement enables virtually all MP3 music to sound even better than it did on the original CDs."

The misinformation begins in the very first sentence with the implication that most music available on CD was first recorded as 24-bit digital audio (we wish!). This sets up the final paragraph where Creative asserts that reprocessing MP3 data into a 24-bit audio file will somehow make it sound better than a 16-bit CD. Sampling rates are not addressed.

To be fair, I have not sat down to carefully listen to the X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor work its audio Frankenstein magic, and the processing behind Xtreme Fidelity is impressive (at least on paper): 51 million transistors, capable of over 10,000 MIPS (million instructions per second, or roughly the number of machine instructions that a computer can execute in one second). The 24-bit output sports a "minimum SNR" of 110dB.

And for folks who want to use the X-Fi Xtreme Fidelity audio processor to record music, it is purportedly powerful enough to convert "any audio resolution to any other resolution at near transparency with 136dB THD+N and digital-matched recordings in resolutions from 44.1kHz to 96kHz."

However, my favorite claim from Creative for its new technology wipes aside high-resolution consumer audio formats in a single sentence: "Being able to upgrade an existing library of music to Xtreme Fidelity differentiates it from other high-end music standards such as DVD-A and SACD, which offer limited selection and require consumers to repurchase their music in that specific format."

There you have it. Run your MP3 files through the new Creative processor and you'll no longer need any of those pesky high-rez audio formats ever again. Or, as Creative puts it, "When consumers upgrade their CD or MP3 music to the new Xtreme Fidelity standard, they will be able to experience playback that sounds better than its original CD recording."

Who needs cumbersome high-resolution downloads—the future path for audio is clear: Download some MP3s, use Xtreme Fidelity to bring the music back to "better than CD" life and, presto, instant high-end sound at a fraction of the bandwidth! As Michael Fremer puts it, "Take a pile of hamburger and make a cow!"

Okay, I'm a little testy about this one. As audiophiles, we're ready to be skeptical when confronted with products (or processes) claiming to spin audio wool into gold, but the general public seems willing to swallow these kinds of promises in an effort to have it all. Our mission is therefore clear: Get out and educate your nearest teenager about audio reality (give 'em a subscription to Stereophile!) and this too shall pass.


oh and here's what some people on hydrogen audio forums say about creative:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=34118&hl=creative

Since when is creative labs credible anyways? I know no other PC-technology manufacturer, which has done such incredible things as creative labs. Starting from their drivers-support to hardware-quality to plain out lies. The only thing creative labs is selling today is their name and market-penetration.
What a load of absolute ****

[teqguy]

Okay, first, let me welcome you to the XS Forums, Barkuti.

I know it's your first post, so I apologize if you're not prepared for me to take your head off, but here we go:

The first thing I noticed even before I began to read your post was the exorbitant amount of smilies you had strewn throughout it.

The rules at most forums will advise you to refrain from using more than three or four in a single post and should only be placed where appropriate. This is so that the forums stay clean(nobody likes clutter) and cater to the bandwidth conscious dialup users.

For me(and probably other users), though, it's simply annoying and detracts from the content of your post. This is especially true when people quote you and neglect to remove all of the smilies.

Now, on to the content of your post:

In all honesty, I'd say I couldn't care less about this chip, but it seems too good. It's a real pity Craptive made it.

Are you a consumer or a stockholder?

The company only has as much influence on the product as the product has on the company... which for the most part is none at all.

For example, AMD is a terrible company, but they make decent products. MSI and Viewsonic are the same way.

Creative is one of the companies which has most largely benefitted from the closed standards (very important, remember 3Dfx?) and lack of competence (hence consumer choices) in the low-mid 90's; that allowed them to grow into a fat ass dinosaur you just can't beat.

Again, consumer or stockholder?

Over the years, they've been getting their butt kicked plenty by TurtleBeach, who is currently selling their Catalina(which is the equivalent to the Audigy) for $65.

With the onset of M-Audio and now HDA, the Audigy/2/4 doesn't have a leg to stand on.

While the majority of the market might go to Creative(as it always has and always will), that doesn't affect the quality of other companies' products, even if it affects their finances.

They have been selling you the same hardware for years, and have never designed it properly

The first part of this is partially true, while the second is just conjecture.

You have to remember that they have been trying to attain a wide user base, hence the reason they tried to incorporate as many features as possible into one controller... and the reason they still sell the SBLive Value.

(why didn't they implemented hardware chips for legacy emulation in the SB Live!, for example? Software emulation sucked).

I never used legacy emulation, nor did I ever need it... and I'm sure most people never did either.

Do you honestly still use any legacy applications that require sound?

I will personally port every single one of them for you if this is the entire basis of your arguement of why the EMUK101 sucks.

Their software is a piece of system cloggin' fat bloatware crap, most of the time it's confusing to get updated drivers and their support just plain sux.

Well, yes, their software is bloated. However, their software is not the product they're trying to sell.

You don't have to use their software... it's just there for convinience.

As far as their drivers being complicated to update.... do you have difficulties putting numbers in sequence and determining which one is larger?

That's all it takes.


They really deserve to be raped and be blown out of the audio industry.

They are the audio industry.

Without them or a company exactly like them, computer audio would not be as mainstream as it is today, which also means that digital music would practically be oblivious.

[aoc007]

Creatives' software sucks and their current hardware could be better but there really is no other choice if you want to fully utilize EAX games and have a broad set of functionality.

Also I've never had any problems updating the software, there's an autoupdate feature on the soundblaster website, the only limit is to install software updates (other than drivers) you need to have the original installed from the CD (EAX Advanced HD, surround mixer etc.).

[teqguy]

Again...... yes, their software is terribly bloated, however, their product is the hardware. The software is just extra and not required.

As far as EAX is concerned, it's meant to simulate the depth and richness of a decent set of speakers while using cheap amplified speakers. I've found with my setups that EAX actually distorts the audio. If you have a decent set of speakers (externally amplified, not Logitech, Creative, or Altec Lansing) and an amplifier (even a basic 200w one will be better than what the aforementioned companies can provide), you really don't need enhancements like EAX.

The most important thing to remember, though, is that you need low gauge wire. Almost 35% of the reason the internally amplified speakers suck is because companies like Creative and Logitech are too cheap to wire them decently... so I guarantee that setups like those would sound better if you rewired them.

You don't need that expensive Monster cable or anything, because standard 10, 12, or 14 gauge electrical wire works exactly the same for a lot cheaper.


Here's a full page article that backs all of this up:
www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

[b0bd0le]

The company only has as much influence on the product as the product has on the company... which for the most part is none at all.

For example, AMD is a terrible company, but they make decent products. MSI and Viewsonic are the same way.

MSI sucks. AMD & Viewsonic have not blatantly lied about what their products are. MSI tried to sell a plain 6800 as a 6800GT. Creative lied about 24-bit audio at 96Khz capabilities. And as for you "consumer or stockholder" question what is the difference? Stockholders don't care about the product unless it raises the share price? And Consumers should only care if it makes their games/music better?

Well, if this piece of hardware is lied about by Creative's marketing department, i can see both consumers & shareholders being upset.

They both have a vested interest in the company, they both give the company money.


While the majority of the market might go to Creative(as it always has and always will), that doesn't affect the quality of other companies' products, even if it affects their finances.

wait, so less r&d money won't affect a product? How intriguing.

The first part of this is partially true, while the second is just conjecture.

Creative claimed that the products in question could handle 24-bit audio at 96Khz – indeed this was stated on the product boxes in bold letters, and in all advertising. But complaints filed in 2003 pointed out that this was only true in a very limited set of circumstances, and pretty much all of the audio passing through the cards would actually be processed at lower quality.

You have to remember that they have been trying to attain a wide user base, hence the reason they tried to incorporate as many features as possible into one controller... and the reason they still sell the SBLive Value.
Is there company that is not trying to establish a large user base? moot point.



Well, yes, their software is bloated. However, their software is not the product they're trying to sell.

You don't have to use their software... it's just there for convinience.

As far as their drivers being complicated to update.... do you have difficulties putting numbers in sequence and determining which one is larger?

That's all it takes.

Creative's drivers are bloated and awful. How can you claim this software is not something they are trying to sell? First off, it is LABELED on their boxes and on their website. I'll list all the things found on the audigy4's website:

Entertainment Center Software and IR Remote allows easy navigation through your movies, music and pictures
Smart Recorder allows you to schedule audio recordings and remove unwanted audio artifacts
Smart Recorder:
Easily create recordings with Creative Smart Recorder. Supports automatic scheduling of recordings, includes Creative's advanced Audio Clean-up algorithm to remove unwanted audio artifacts and support for auto triggered recordings.
Patented Creative CMSS® 3D Audio Technology:
Allows you to listen to all your digital music in virtual surround with headphones or captivating surround with 5.1 or 7.1 speakers.

EAX® Music Console with Acoustic Enhancements
# Make your digital music sound dramatically better with EAX ADVANCED HD MUSIC tools including Bass Boost, Multi-Band Graphics Equalizer on all 8 channels, Audio Clean-Up and Karaoke.


They are the audio industry.

Without them or a company exactly like them, computer audio would not be as mainstream as it is today, which also means that digital music would practically be oblivious.

They have a stranglehold upon the audio market. However they are not "the audio industry." Like you yourself said, there are other competitors right?

Since when is mainstream is good? Much less for anyone who frequents these forums. Why don't you go buy a "mainstream" pc from your local best buy and see how it performs.

That last statment is absolutely ridiculous.
I guess i should thank music gods that allowed Creative to deliver the music to my ears.
:rolleyes:

[b0bd0le]

oh yeah, here's the claim form for that class action lawsuit. It was settled with Creative, and they will give you UP TO $62.50 if you buy something off of their website :rolleyes:
pretty lame deal if you ask me

anyhow here's the link:

http://www.audiocardsettlement.com/form.asp
In order to qualify for a certificate good for 25% off the sales price of any one Creative product, not to exceed sixty-two dollars and fifty cents ($62.50) off, you must provide the model and serial number of your Audigy ES, Audigy Platinum, Audigy Platinum eX, Audigy Gamer, Audigy MP3+, or Extigy model sound card ("Sound Card"), your address and the other information required by the form below. In order to make a claim, you must be dissatisfied with the audio processing capabilities of your Sound Card and you must release all claims against Creative, as set forth below. You may not submit more than one claim with respect to each Sound Card you purchased, and each claim must relate to a separate Sound Card. All claims are subject to verification and validation by Creative. Certificates received in this settlement may be redeemed only at Creative's online store at http://us.creative.com.

[teqguy]

MSI sucks. AMD & Viewsonic have not blatantly lied about what their products are. MSI tried to sell a plain 6800 as a 6800GT. Creative lied about 24-bit audio at 96Khz capabilities.

Again, the product and company are entirely different entities, which is what I was trying to explain to you.

As for Creative "lying" about the Audigy's capabilities... I think you're stretching the truth. The class action lawsuit was about the fact that those capabilities weren't inherent in every audio mode, not that they were entirely non-existent.

Is it false advertising that Creative did not specify this on the box? Absolutely not.

Consumer incompetence is the only reason anyone could present a plausible lawsuit in this case, because anyone with half a brain would not buy a product simply by looking at the box.

Furthermore, the technical aspect of this is in Creative's favor, considering there are no 24bit/96Khz speakers to even use with it. The only way 24bit/96Khz could possibly be active is through an optical or S/PDIF connection to an external amplifier, which is exactly what this card does.


And as for you "consumer or stockholder" question what is the difference? Stockholders don't care about the product unless it raises the share price? And Consumers should only care if it makes their games/music better?

Consumers only care about the product. Stockholders only care about the company.

Well, if this piece of hardware is lied about by Creative's marketing department, i can see both consumers & shareholders being upset.

Refer to what I said above.

They both have a vested interest in the company, they both give the company money.

Oh really?

So you would buy an Intel processor over an AMD processor, simply because Intel has the hold on market share?

wait, so less r&d money won't affect a product? How intriguing.

The quality of the product is not determined by the financial welfare of the company. (Again, refer to AMD vs Intel or Speakeasy vs Verizon)


Creative claimed that the products in question could handle 24-bit audio at 96Khz – indeed this was stated on the product boxes in bold letters, and in all advertising. But complaints filed in 2003 pointed out that this was only true in a very limited set of circumstances, and pretty much all of the audio passing through the cards would actually be processed at lower quality.

Refer above for the reason why it's technically impossible for the audio to be output at 24/96Khz in every mode.

Creative's drivers are bloated and awful. How can you claim this software is not something they are trying to sell? First off, it is LABELED on their boxes and on their website.

The software is inclusive. It has no price tag. Therefore, it is not a product and should not and does not affect the quality of the hardware.

They have a stranglehold upon the audio market. However they are not "the audio industry." Like you yourself said, there are other competitors right?

If Creative didn't have a stranglehold, someone else would.

The only reason other competitors exist is because someone didn't like the way Creative was doing things and decided to do them differently.

[Barkuti]

Quite heated up discussion going on here.


The first thing I noticed even before I began to read your post was the exorbitant amount of smilies you had strewn throughout it.

I accept your criticism, but at the same time I don't think using 5 or 6 different smilies is bad. Even dialup users shouldn't have any problem with this; I was one of them 4 years ago and never had a problem with threads filled with smilies (I did with big images). It is true no smilie should be used to replace any text, tough.

When I said it was a pity Creative designed this chip... it has relationship with my opinion about the software too. First let me clarify: when I say "software", I am not mainly referring to the programs they bundle with their products. I mostly refer to the drivers; remember that is software also. So software = drivers + programs; that is to say, all the soft stuff (sounds quite obvious :rolleyes: ).
Keep in mind that in modern computer industry, a hardware product is not just hardware, it needs software. And the quality and performance of it is related to the quality & performance of the weakest link, either it's the hardware or software. You know, we have seen great hardware products crap out due to buggy/incomplete drivers. There are many examples we may recall so I don't need to add anything, IMHO.

As I have said before, if you need 3rd party drivers for your product to work properly, then that thing may not deserve your money. For example, you can use 3rd party drivers with modern nVidia & ATI graphic cards, but how many people needs them for their product to work as it should? Very few if any; for comparison, Creative has caused a lot of grief to many users.


Over the years, they've been getting their butt kicked plenty by TurtleBeach, who is currently selling their Catalina(which is the equivalent to the Audigy) for $65.

Maybe in the past they got "some" competition (less than you think). But in general, like a mouse would kick the butt of an elephant (Wait! Elephants run off scared with mice! :D ).
The TurtleBeach Catalina is a joke compared to an Audigy 2.

While the majority of the market might go to Creative(as it always has and always will), that doesn't affect the quality of other companies' products, even if it affects their finances.

So the majority of the market will always go to Creative, are you a prophet or something alike?
If it affects your finances, you will have less money to spend on R&D, so it will be harder for you to develop a good product, if a product at all (remember the amazing graphics technology of BitBoys? They crapped out totally due to lack of funding).


I never used legacy emulation, nor did I ever need it... and I'm sure most people never did either.

Do you honestly still use any legacy applications that require sound?

I will personally port every single one of them for you if this is the entire basis of your arguement of why the EMUK101 sucks.

When I got my brand new SB Live! many years ago, Windows 98 was still all the rage, and I had many games (like USNF, Duke3D, etc.) that needed legacy emulation. USNF never worked, and some people wrote patches to disable SB16 echoing effects on BUILD games in order for them to not crash while using SB16 software emulation. These are just examples.

I never said the EMU10K1 chip sucks. Just the company that uses it in its hardware, and writes drivers for.


As far as their drivers being complicated to update.... do you have difficulties putting numbers in sequence and determining which one is larger?

I have no problems with maths at all, in fact I have been always quite good with arithmetics. But explain me why do I have to go to a 3rd party site to get updated software packages for a Craptive sound card, and resort to download 3 or 4 versions because I can't be sure if my product is supported on them...
Yes, you can get software packages in their support site, but these will rarely be the most up to date ones. BTW, updated drivers never solved my sound crackling in Windows XP (sound was perfect in Windows 98 with the same hardware configuration, son don't tell me it was my hard). It's that these guys can't get their $hit together. Point and aside.

It is freakin' easy to go to nVidia's site and get their most up to date driver package, that will support even an old TNT2 card and make it work as it should. :fact:


They are the audio industry.

And that's our main problem.


Cheers

[shklak]

Well, yes, their software is bloated. However, their software is not the product they're trying to sell.

I must strongly disagree with that.

Every product which I buy - I hold the manufacturer responsible for the whole package.

That goes to hardware as well.

When I buy a soundcard, which must rely on drivers to work fully functional as advertised, the software/drivers which is needed is also part of the product.

Only if the manufacturer had specially said/claimed otherwise (before the actual sale took place), I won't consider the drivers - in this case - as not belongs to the product bought by me.

I paid for the soundcard in order to use it for playing sounds. not using it as a frisbee or a paper-weight.

[teqguy]

The drivers and the software are two entirely different entities.

I'm talking about the bloatware Creative includes to manage the card.

As far as the drivers are concerned, they have always worked as intended. The only issues I've ever ran into were Windows related. The easiest way to solve any problem you might be having, though, is to install the Audigy 4 drivers through the same trick as the SBLive to Audigy.

The "crackling" you're referring to is due to an IRQ latency conflict with your graphics card. If you reduce the latency of your graphics card to 64ms or 32ms using Latency Config(LtcCfg2), it's proven to fix issues with the sound card.

[chunkylover77]

In all honesty, I'd say I couldn't care less about this chip, but it seems too good. It's a real pity Craptive made it. :nono:

Creative is one of the companies which has most largely benefitted from the closed standards (very important, remember 3Dfx?) and lack of competence (hence consumer choices) in the low-mid 90's; that allowed them to grow into a fat ass dinosaur you just can't beat.

However, they have been largely overrated because of this. They have been selling you the same hardware for years, and have never designed it properly (why didn't they implemented hardware chips for legacy emulation in the SB Live!, for example? Software emulation sucked). Their software is a piece of system cloggin' fat bloatware crap, most of the time it's confusing to get updated drivers and their support just plain sux :slapass: . It's ok if you use 3rd party drivers to get some additional features, but having to use them because official ones suck... For me, they can :kissbutt: my ass. They really deserve to be raped and be blown out of the audio industry. :bananal: :explode2:

My :2cents:

Cheers



I'm sorry but I dont understand your post. So you dont like creative? :D
BTW :welcome: to XS

[krille]

I think he didn't like creative very much, and would die seeing them releasing a good product and so he's denying the very product itself. :D

[Alucard-]

I just hope creative gets rid of the resampling for 44.1khz and 88.2khz, I bought one of the cheap chaintech via envy cards and it sounds so much better for my lossless music then creative ever did resampled in foobar2k. I don't think there is such a thing as good computer speakers from any manufactor you need to do digital out and use a nice home theatre receiver with digital out to bypass all the emi and resampling. I just wish there was a easy way to pass more then 2.1 pcm uncompressed from my comp to receiver, over firewire or something without the high end receivers costings 2-3k. Would be nice if creative coule allow the firewire port to send uncompress pcm 7.1 to receivers without resampling it for gamings etc.

[teqguy]

Resampling isn't done over the optical and SPDIF ports, check out Creative's mapping for the card.

All audio is downsampled once it reaches the speakers, because there aren't speakers that can handle frequency responses over ~44Khz.

[LOE]

With all this processing power it will be nice for games. For proffesional audio recording it is useless - creative's effects are crappy, it's better to use outboard or software effects. What creative needs to do for the consumer audio is better DACs and ADCs for theese 8 or even 9 channel cards without costing 300$

EMU cards start from 100$ - they have way better DACs than SB but a 100$ emu is 2 chans only and a low end audigy is 8. They can eventually use top quality for the front speakers and worse for surround.

Anyway on multimedia 7.1 speakers from creative or logitech things don't sound that good. For listening to music a pair of high quality speakers is always better. Yamaha has a 7.1 solution with good speakers but a speaker costs about 200$ - so 7.2 would cost 1800$ - plus a 2000$ 7.2 receiver/amplifier - now an audio card for 300-400$ doesn't seem that expensive :)

I would like an audio card that I can use for DVD watching, playing games and recording/listening to music cause now I use two different soundcards. If they make a proffesional soundcard that can be used as consumer it will be great. But such cards are seperated by drivers - consumer audio is crappy and pro audio is lacking gaming support, I hope with the new desing and new driver "modes" things will finally change

I prefer a 300$ audio card that does it all than one 200$ for gaming and another 200$ for recording, having a mess of cables, 2 sets of speakers and different driver/control panel for each

BTW there are speakers that handle up to 60Khz, but that has nothing to do with the sampling frequency - 192KHz audio doesn't provide a sound with 192Khz, the most we can hear is about 22Khz, but it a 22Khz sound is sampled at 44Khz which is only twise the sound we hear, so this sound is not well produced. Sampling sound at 96 or 192 Khz hepls for much better sound representation of what we hear, and also what we feel, cause infra and ultra sound can be senced with different organs except the ears.

[teqguy]

$2000 for a reciever???

I bought my 6.1 for $179.


BTW there are speakers that handle up to 60Khz

Yeah, they're called tweeters.

A tweeter alone is only good for the highs... it can't reproduce the mids or lows, so you'd need a woofer and a driver with it to get decent sound reproduction. All decent box speakers have at least one of each, so they aren't exactly a rarity.

but that has nothing to do with the sampling frequency - 192KHz audio doesn't provide a sound with 192Khz, the most we can hear is about 22Khz, but it a 22Khz sound is sampled at 44Khz which is only twise the sound we hear, so this sound is not well produced. Sampling sound at 96 or 192 Khz hepls for much better sound representation of what we hear, and also what we feel, cause infra and ultra sound can be senced with different organs except the ears.

Actually, reproduction and sampling walk hand in hand. One is a component of input, while the other is output.

Since you technically can't reproduce audio at frequencies that high, nor can they sustain that frequency, it really doesn't matter, as long as the sound is sampled at 48Khz or more.

"Audio representation" is a term the industry came up with to sell their more expensive products to people who don't know any better.

The only way they're going to be able to improve clarity for most speakers is by making diaphragms with more concise vibrations, such as titanium treated with diamond or sapphire.

[LOE]

teqguy

There is no point in arguing about it, just listen to a CD and DVD audio on some quality speakers and hear for yourself.
That's why sound is dithered - to make it look like something - it's like a greyscale image converted to black and white - without dither there will be a black and a white spot without any variations. The more the DPI the better the quality. The more the Khz - the same thing

With time audio CD's fill fade away, and audio DVD will spread. Then we will be able to hear the way things actually sound. 24/96 to 16/44 loses as much as wave looses to mp3

There is no need to explain to me speakers and sound - I'm in audio recording for half a decade. In your words sound engineers who make sound buy overrated equipment cause they are dumb? And before there are titanium diaphragms sound will most likely project directly into our hears

But everything is most of all personal taste... for some ppl multimedia speakers and 128k mp3 sound superb. I personaly find a difference in 24 bit 96Khz audio

Best wishes

this is pretty good receiver
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/av/products/ht/dspz9.html
I don't know the price in USD but I think it's about 5-6k

[teqguy]

There is no need to explain to me speakers and sound - I'm in audio recording for half a decade. In your words sound engineers who make sound buy overrated equipment cause they are dumb? And before there are titanium diaphragms sound will most likely project directly into our hears



For someone who says they "know audio", you certainly don't have a leg to stand on:

http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/diaphragm.asp

"Diaphragms must be stiff and sturdy while also being light weight. They need to be able to move and respond quickly, necessitating light weight. They also should not flex or deform as they move (which would cause distortion), requiring a strong structure. Most domes are made from some sort of light-weight metal (typically aluminum or titanium), silk or a light weight plastic. Midranges and woofers are typically cones that are made of some type of treated plastic or strong, specially formed paper. Diaphragms are what make it possible for speakers to generate sound by vibrating and exciting the surrounding air with their vibrations. "


Furthermore, that Yamaha amplifier is made up of about 75% quality and 25% simply for show.

Sure, it has a lot of features... but how many of them actually get used on a daily basis? Most of them will never be used, yet you pay for every single one of them.

I mean, come on, who needs that many Dolby Pro Logic profiles? My amp has 6 and I don't use any of them, ever. Dolby pales in comparison to DTS, and unfortunately, the only way to get a source that's encoded at 24bit/96khz is through DTS.

[LOE]

I spoke of digital audio, not of spakers. For a man that doesn't know the difference btwn sampling freq and sampled freq it is normal ot read and understand stuff as Sci-fi. So far the best speakers I've seen and heard have wooden cones. Maybe you shouldn't relly so much on reading stuff than on practice.

If music is a painting, the CD audio is printed photo of it, and the mp3 is a xerox copy.

The issue is not the quality of the speakers as theese days every instrument is amplified before recordered. Also every company has own speakers with onw sound. If you record directly sound is stiff. A guitar amp gives color and volume to the sound.

Current speakers are OK, the big problem is analog looses quality and digital is like having you sliced into pieces and put back together - you won't like it. i don't know how to explain things to you so you could understand. The more the bits and sampling frequency the more things come closer to what they really are. 24bit 96Khz is as much hype as HDTV - i really woulnd't call it a hype. It's like runing your 19" monitor 640X480. I hope you got the message this time, cause I won't try anymore :)

[teqguy]

There are so many things wrong with what you just said, that I'm almost afraid to touch it.

First of all, you can't deny that you said titanium diaphragms don't exist, because I can quote it:

And before there are titanium diaphragms sound will most likely project directly into our hears

Second, wooden diaphragms are rarely used for speakers. In fact, they're so rare that I only know of one company that actually makes these type of speakers.

However, there are some shortcomings:

1) They only make these speakers with 4 inch drivers... so they're only decent as bookshelf speakers in home use.

2) Wood is only capable of reproducing acoustic audio from string instruments with complete clarity. I would only choose them as part of an ensemble if I wanted to listen to classical music.

3) Titanium has a lower attenuation, higher sound propagation speed, and is more rigid. This allows it to be capable of reproducing audio from all types of sources with clarity and more importantly, accuracy. This is why speakers based on it are more suited for multimedia such as movies, games, and more diverse music listening.


Third, analog and digital have absolutely no effect on sampling or reproduction when used seperately.

Unfortunately, with modern audio reproduction, the audio is analog before it reaches a digital source and becomes analog again after it's processed.

The only way to circumvent loss is by either of the following or a combination of the two:

A) Interpolate the audio to revive frequencies that were lost in the DAC.
B) Sample more frequencies/bits per second so that the loss is minimalized.

So, for you to say that "24bit/96Khz" is hype or that it isn't a step closer to fully reproducing audio accurately is completely and utterly inane.


I honestly hope you realize that you don't need to explain things to me. If I wanted your explanation, I would ask for it... but considering I've had to correct you multiple times, don't even bother trying.

[del_fuego]

The X-fi will be released, thousands will buy it and IT will be the best sound card ever made. Look at the competition they have.

If one wants to just play games on their pute and deal with alot of bloatware then by all means go with the creative stuff. If you want to work seriously with audio (and have done your homework) then stick to M-audio or Terratec (cant beat German engineering), who have always managed to make better quality products than creative along with much better written drivers.

Besides, every studio i visit usually has a macintosh, coupled with a soundcard that ISNT made by creative. Believe me when i say that Fatboy Slim doesnt use a creative product in his studio!! But if he didnt make music and just played games, he probably would!

Cheers, dEl. :)

P.S. Isnt Creative owned by Microshaft ??

[saaya]

it is? :o

[[XC] leviathan18]

i dotn think so they drivers sux with windows xD

[aoc007]

P.S. Isnt Creative owned by Microshaft ??

I don't believe so...

[del_fuego]

I don't believe so...

I didnt think so either but i wasnt sure, thanks for the heads up :)

I came across this quote on a website which got me wondering though !!

"Both are considered monopolies in their respective areas. Both use patents to scare off competitors, or just buy them out. Both have bloaty, buggy software. That's a lot in common. Too much." (Are we sure they aren't run by the same people?!!!!)

I thought that was funny.

Cheers, dEl.

[Turok]

They are going to release some X-Fi info Today.

http://www.soundblaster.com/products/x-fi/technology/

Posted 8 hours from release time

[krille]

To me this launch is starting to look more and more :bs: from Creative's side.

Just read their texts and see their performance comparisons...