Any suggestions for this new build?

[Philly_Boy]

Hello,

I have been trolling these forums for about 8 months now, gaining information and insight into building a new system for everyday use. I am considering the following main components:

CPU-AMD 4800+ X2
Mobo-DFI Lan Party NF4 SLi DR or DFI LanParty Crossfire
Video-7800 Ultra 512mb (x2) or X850XT PE (Crossfire) (x2)
RAM-OCV VX or Mushkin Redline (4 x 512mb)
PSU-PC P&C Turbo 850
HDD-WD 74gb Raptors in RAID 0
Case-Lian Li PC-V1200B or Silverstone Nemiz or Mountain Mods U2-UFO
plus other stuff...

I would like to cool the CPU and GPU's with seperate phase change units that will reside in and below the main case. Is this possible? I have seen units from both Chilly 1 and PC Ice that are capable of cooling 2 video cards from one unit.

I will be using this rig for mostly gaming (well, and some benching as well). My goal is to get something 24/7 stable as this will be my only rig for sometime. I don't want to feel the need to upgrade unless some really compelling part comes out. Anyway, can this 'dual unit' set up be accomplished? I'll want the under-the-case unit to match the black of the main case. Would an LCD screen be appropriate to keep an eye on the temps of both units? As you see, I am an open book on this. I have been saving for this project for awhile and will begin acquiring parts around the middle to the end of June. I have a budget of about $6K give or take a bit.

Thanks in advance for the suggestions....please be kind, this is my 1st post!

Philly_Boy

[Sneil]

i think you should save your money for a G70/r520 (G70 has my vote) come a month or 2. just one G70 will beat out sli 6800 ultras. you can check out one of lardars' systems. he has a dual evap for sli and a single for the cpu. go dual g70's if you have 6k. 6k is a little overkill for your project. buy a car maybe?

[Philly_Boy]

i think you should save your money for a G70/r520 (G70 has my vote) come a month or 2. just one G70 will beat out sli 6800 ultras. you can check out one of lardars' systems. he has a dual evap for sli and a single for the cpu. go dual g70's if you have 6k. 6k is a little overkill for your project. buy a car maybe?

Forgive my ignorance....but what's a G70? Any link to read more about it?

Also, 6K is what I think is necessary to built a new system that will kick a$$ and be upgrade free for about a year. BTW, I already own a nice car...an '06 Mitsu Eclipse GT as well as a new Suzuki GSXR-1000.

Philly

[Jack22]

Yes. I suggest waiting too. But my friend, with 6K you can do more. I see no reason to not try to get records with a kickass setup. Also, you wont have to upgrade for yearrsssss to come. I suggest a 3 stage cascade. :D. You have the money...

[n00b 0f l337]

Yeah, but a 3 stage cascade can be extremely dangerous especially if its your first thru 100th build. ;)

[Philly_Boy]

Yes. I suggest waiting too. But my friend, with 6K you can do more. I see no reason to not try to get records with a kickass setup. Also, you wont have to upgrade for yearrsssss to come. I suggest a 3 stage cascade. :D. You have the money...

Jack-Thanks for the suggestion, but I am looking for something that will fit the footprint of the case. All the 2 & 3 stage cascades I've seen so far are kinda gangly units that sit outside the case and are connected to a "caseless" system. I am looking for something a bit less extreme than that. I want to put this system next to my desk and be able to appreciate it's clean asthetics as well as it ability to kick ass in games and benching. I've been building simple PC's for friends for almost 10 years, but have never taken on this ambitious of a project. That's why I ask the pro's....you guys here at XS. ~Philly~

[n00b 0f l337]

I would then follow like landsard (sorry if i misspell name) but his unit setup is quite extreme, insane, and looks great.

[Jack22]

Lardarse. But yes, i will agree with the above. Very sleek looking.

[Sneil]

DO NOT try any form of cascade. you obviously have no experience with phase change and only the very experienced who could teach a class on refrigeration and refrigeration hazards attempt things like cascades. it doesn't matter how much you have to spend. do not listen to jack22. the single stage units u want are fine. G70(nvidia) and r520(ATI) are the nextgen graphics cards comming out mid summer.

[Jack22]

Thanks for being upfront. :/. Notice i wrote something else?

[Philly_Boy]

Lardarse. But yes, i will agree with the above. Very sleek looking.

Anyone have a link to a pic of Lardarse' set up? I know from his posts he's has a fairly sick system. I am looking to use phase change to get a decently extreme overclock, keep me out of the 4x a year upgrade cycle and give me a system that is 24/7 stable even when pushed hard. I really don't have the time to devote to the fine tuning that's required to achieve world records, altho being in the top 10 or 15 might be a nice by-product of this build. Thanks for all the advice and recommendations. I read about ATi and nVidia's nex-gen cards....they look like they'll be worth waiting for.

Anyway, I would love to hear from some of the "Masters of Phase Change" regarding my build. Folks like Fugger, PC Ice, Chilly 1, etc. It's nice to know I am at least on the right track.

~Philly~

[Lando95]

Forgive my ignorance....but what's a G70? Any link to read more about it?

The G70 is the codename for Nvidia's newest video card. There are not too many details available yet, as Nvidia doesn't comment on unreleased products. But there are rumors floating around in the game development circles that the G70 is going to be faster than ATI's 520 (ATI's upcoming card).

[shadowing]

First of all, never attempt a triple stager if you never ever built one. That is a huge NO NO.

Btw, why the Ultra-D mobo? Why not the SLI-DR version?

[Philly_Boy]

First of all, never attempt a triple stager if you never ever built one. That is a huge NO NO.

Btw, why the Ultra-D mobo? Why not the SLI-DR version?

Actually, I am in touch with Chilly 1 to see what he can do to make this dual single phase system a reality. I have no interest (at least for now) in building a 2 or 3 stage cascade for the CPU cooler.

[Rondrian]

in my oppinion it's a wise choice.
good luck!

[afireinside]

Have you thought about watercooling the video cards and phasechange only the CPU? It would take less electricity, time, and you only have to worry about insulating the CPU and not two video cards as well.

[shadowing]

Have you thought about watercooling the video cards and phasechange only the CPU? It would take less electricity, time, and you only have to worry about insulating the CPU and not two video cards as well.

Watercooling takes away all the fun ;)

Having dual singles look cooler too :D More overclocking fun during summer!!

[Philly_Boy]

Have you thought about watercooling the video cards and phasechange only the CPU? It would take less electricity, time, and you only have to worry about insulating the CPU and not two video cards as well.

I had origionally considered a watercooling set up, but I came to the conclusion that phase change would give me more bang for the buck. By the time I invested in a decent rad, shroud, fans, pump, dual GPU blocks, a res, 1/2" tubing and the misc that goes along with it would cost almost as much as the second single phase unit. And even then the best I'd be able to do is match the ambient temp of my room. Phase change is a little more cost wise, but I can count on temps 40-50c less than the best WC set up.

Have you seen Chilly's set ups? Properly installed, there is a very slim chance of condensation forming. BTW, Electricity only cost me $0.04632/kwh, so the extra $5 a month to run a dual phase change set up far out weighs the cost of the initial set up. Also, it just looks cleaner and *much* cooler.

~Philly~

[ZENNZZO]

5 bux a month? heh heh heh.... :ROTF: you must not want to run them very much...

[afireinside]

I had origionally considered a watercooling set up, but I came to the conclusion that phase change would give me more bang for the buck. By the time I invested in a decent rad, shroud, fans, pump, dual GPU blocks, a res, 1/2" tubing and the misc that goes along with it would cost almost as much as the second single phase unit. And even then the best I'd be able to do is match the ambient temp of my room. Phase change is a little more cost wise, but I can count on temps 40-50c less than the best WC set up.

Have you seen Chilly's set ups? Properly installed, there is a very slim chance of condensation forming. BTW, Electricity only cost me $0.04632/kwh, so the extra $5 a month to run a dual phase change set up far out weighs the cost of the initial set up. Also, it just looks cleaner and *much* cooler.

~Philly~

Of course I've seen chilly1s units. If you're not careful its still dangerous.

Watercooling-300 ish
100 for blocks
70 for weapon core and shroud
80 for 12V pump
30 for a res if you want
15 for tubes

a dual evap chilly1 unit is most likely 600-700.


Sure 50C is a big difference. With Vmods you might be seeing 100mhz gains on the cards over water. But whats it matter? You could play any game for the next year AT LEAST maxed at stock.

[Philly_Boy]

Of course I've seen chilly1s units. If you're not careful its still dangerous.

Watercooling-300 ish
100 for blocks
70 for weapon core and shroud
80 for 12V pump
30 for a res if you want
15 for tubes

a dual evap chilly1 unit is most likely 600-700.


Sure 50C is a big difference. With Vmods you might be seeing 100mhz gains on the cards over water. But whats it matter? You could play any game for the next year AT LEAST maxed at stock.

Yeah...but I am a fairly careful guy. Remember, there are also risks associated with a WC set up. Leaks, pump failures, etc could cause the GPU to fail. And the best this $300+ set up does is match the ambient temp of the room. So, why settle for 22c when I could have -38c?

And you think even with volt mods the best I'll see is a 100 mhz oc? I think that estimate is a bit conservative. It'll be more like 150-175 mhz when it's all said and done with similar gains in the memory oc. The dual single stage will look very trick and give me 50c gain over the best WC set-up. To me, that's well worth the extra coin spent on a dual evap phase change unit. Heck, I'll have $1100-$1300 invested in just the video cards, so I also see this as investment protection. The idea of not really having to upgrade for at least 12 to possibly 18 months is also very appealing as is the possibility of playing pretty much *any* game for the next 18 months with max res and AA and filtering also maxed.

So, in the end, it seems as if I outgrew the whole WC scene before I really got involved in it. Suits me just fine...

~Philly~

[ZENNZZO]

the difference between ambient and sub-zero is the biggest thing you will constantly fight...CONDENSATION...it is a PITA

[Philly_Boy]

the difference between ambient and sub-zero is the biggest thing you will constantly fight...CONDENSATION...it is a PITA

But....it's not all that hard to proof the mobo for condensation.

[afireinside]

Mobo is pretty easy. I can do some sloppy insulation and run dry ice for 5 hours straight. video cards are a lot harder.

[_HL4E_HalfLife_]

Here we go again another G70 vs R520 thread....

[ZENNZZO]

Mobo is pretty easy. I can do some sloppy insulation and run dry ice for 5 hours straight. video cards are a lot harder.Here Here :toast: My point exactly...video cards: way expensive and hard to insulate effectively

[Philly_Boy]

Here Here :toast: My point exactly...video cards: way expensive and hard to insulate effectively

Maybe we could hear from someone who has successfully implemented a dual evap single phase unit for dual GPU's and find out what they did to proof the video cards for condensation. I am almost positive Fugger has one, but I dunno beyond that. Perhaps PC_Ice or Chilly1 could share an opinion as they seem to be the two more knowledgeable people about this topic.

~Philly~

[FUGGER]

For benching I would use mastic tape around the edge of the block and then wrap the video card with siran wrap. I use a small piece of neoprene with a backplate to hold the block on.

Currently testing Glad "press and seal"

When I was running sub zero waterblocks 24/7 I used neoprene gasket on the front and back with a large backing plate on the back.

[ZENNZZO]

For benching I would use mastic tape around the edge of the block and then wrap the video card with siran wrap. I use a small piece of neoprene with a backplate to hold the block on.

Currently testing Glad "press and seal"

When I was running sub zero waterblocks 24/7 I used neoprene gasket on the front and back with a large backing plate on the back.
got pics? The SLI rig I just built sports 2 GPU evaps and 1.5" between them...I would love to see other insulating techniques...how many layers of "saran" wrap are we talking?

[Philly_Boy]

got pics? The SLI rig I just built sports 2 GPU evaps and 1.5" between them...I would love to see other insulating techniques...how many layers of "saran" wrap are we talking?

Zennzzo - You got any pics of your rig? You dawg! All this time you been holding out on me.....<smile>....and we seem to be in the same vein. What gear do you have? Any ideas to share besides the cautions previously stated?

Fugger - Hey, thanks for the tip on the saran wrap. Do you have any ideas regarding the whole nVidia SLI vs the newer ATi crossfire technology? I have owned Radeon boards for the past few generations....but had the origional Riva TnT waaay back in the day so I am not really biased either way......just looking for the best bang for the buck.

~Philly~

[chilly1]

Maybe we could hear from someone who has successfully implemented a dual evap single phase unit for dual GPU's and find out what they did to proof the video cards for condensation. I am almost positive Fugger has one, but I dunno beyond that. Perhaps PC_Ice or Chilly1 could share an opinion as they seem to be the two more knowledgeable people about this topic.

~Philly~
Well I told detenator to use Co2 and full immersion to eliminate condensation completly.
Really simple get a cylinder of Co2 and a tupperware bin big enough for a mother board. tape a hose to teh side. Cover with ceranwrap keep a positive pressure on it and no more condensation on hte cards.

[Unknown_road]

Well I told detenator to use Co2 and full immersion to eliminate condensation completly.
Really simple get a cylinder of Co2 and a tupperware bin big enough for a mother board. tape a hose to teh side. Cover with ceranwrap keep a positive pressure on it and no more condensation on hte cards.

no h2o condensation that is, not well insulated cascade evap and you'll have dry ice forming :woot:

[Philly_Boy]

Well I told detenator to use Co2 and full immersion to eliminate condensation completly.
Really simple get a cylinder of Co2 and a tupperware bin big enough for a mother board. tape a hose to teh side. Cover with saran wrap keep a positive pressure on it and no more condensation on the cards.

But what if I wanted to keep the cards inside my case? It is that much more difficult to insulate? I thought to use the same methods used for mobo's....silicone sealant and neopreme around the evap and a layer of neopreme under the backing plate on the back to hold the evap assembly on. Does the evap get soooo cold that the frost spreads well beyond the evap assembly? How about a layer of heat tape? I guess it must be a bit more tricky because of the VC's size.

~Philly~