How To Get Refrigerant Certified?

[n00b 0f l337]

My big question. :stick:
Slap me if this has been posted a billion times... :slap:

How can I get certified so that I can buy some basic refrierants, as I hear propane doesnt hold load well?

[ZENNZZO]

My big question. :stick:
Slap me if this has been posted a billion times... :slap:

How can I get certified so that I can buy some basic refrierants, as I hear propane doesnt hold load well?
Prolly has but here goes... :slapass: EPA 608 online testing (http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/technicians/certoutl.html)
And I don't know about propane holding load but -48 loaded ona 2.4C at 3.8 and 1.60vCore aint too bad... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30538

[n00b 0f l337]

Nice, I kept hearing propanes crap for load and such.
Is it an online test? If so I cant find it...

[ZENNZZO]

Nice, I kept hearing propanes crap for load and such.
I havent had too much trouble with it...I get even better temps with R22 and propane...R22 being the cheapest refrigerant i can get a hold of...like 76 bux locally for a 13.6kg jug. ;)

[n00b 0f l337]

So is that an online test?

[Disposibleteen]

my dad had to go take a test, now hes certified to buy any refrigerant.

[SoF]

hmm don't know exactly, but doesn't this depend on the country you're living in?
we are all living all around the world so you should tell us your country if i'm right ;)

[matttheniceguy]

Yes, it depends a lot on the country you are in. Some countries have little to no regulations regarding refrigerants, while others won't even let you buy service manifods or other things that will tap into a system without the proper certification.

[bh2k]

In the united states you can do the test at www.epatest.com which would cert you to buy all refridgerents that we use. Basically it's a crash course in recovery and reclaiming refridgerent.

[wdrzal]

only 608 type 1 cert can be had online. I recommend getting a universal certificate.

[hitmanx2]

where can you take the universal test :confused:

[REDKEN]

Here (http://www.escoinst.com/) is another site also.

Good luck

[n00b 0f l337]

Cool, Im in the usa. I may be able to get small ammounts of refrigerants for cheap/free if I can get certified... Thanks for the online links.

Edit: Hmmm, seems like you gotta pay to take it online...

[ZENNZZO]

only 608 type 1 cert can be had online. I recommend getting a universal certificate.
What are the benifits to getting the universal cert as it applies to our Phase cooling, :shrug:
just wondering?

[wdrzal]

A universal certificate covers all types of refrigerants .While type I cover small appliances< 5# type II covers high pressure and very high pressure refrigerants that are mostly used . type III covers low pressure refrigerants knowing the difference and how they act is critical to safety.Here most vo-tech's offer 20 to 40 hour courses .The information you gain about gases from a certified instructor will give guys new to phase change a real head start in understanding how gases and pressures are related. There is a lot of instructuion on recovery,but just about any question you may have will be answered.Everyone wants to start out with the coldest rig,I say everyone should start out with the best certification. "work safe" walt

[kayl]

Nice, I kept hearing propanes crap for load and such.
Is it an online test? If so I cant find it...

noob all my stuff i do is with r290, in australia ya have to do a trade apprentership for 4 years to be qualified(ie work in the trade and go to school tafe/collage one day a week for four years/ crap wages) crazy no way :nono:


as for r290 crap at load.
its all in the way ya build it and tune it.
my cascade first stage runs at -66c. its being loaded by an unloaded second stage co2/r290 cascade at -100c.
now load this cascade with a good load and first stage goes back to about -44.5c loaded and secondstage around -75c running loops of 3dmark.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45620&page=8&pp=25&highlight=cascade

[ZENNZZO]

A universal certificate covers all types of refrigerants .While type I cover small appliances< 5# type II covers high pressure and very high pressure refrigerants that are mostly used . type III covers low pressure refrigerants knowing the difference and how they act is critical to safety.Here most vo-tech's offer 20 to 40 hour courses .The information you gain about gases from a certified instructor will give guys new to phase change a real head start in understanding how gases and pressures are related. There is a lot of instructuion on recovery,but just about any question you may have will be answered.Everyone wants to start out with the coldest rig,I say everyone should start out with the best certification. "work safe" walt
That makes alot of sense...knowledge is good...

[Sneil]

in canada all you do is get CFC certified with a one day course for $150C and your good to handle all refrigerants. Anyone can do it without any prior ac/hvac training. gotta love it here :moon:

[ZENNZZO]

in canada all you do is get CFC certified with a one day course for $150C and your good to handle all refrigerants. Anyone can do it without any prior ac/hvac training. gotta love it here :moon:
I think I paid 24.00USD and did an open book test online :slapass:

still in all,
the more knowledge about the field the safer it is...
:toast:

[wdrzal]

While I relize too most of you guys this is just a hobby ,but it's a serious one. Unlike overclocking phase change presents real dangers to life and limb.You are no longer just going to just ruin a processor or board if you screw up.Consider this: when say you want to drag race or race at the local dirt track you are required to have the correct safety apperal and devices before you are even allowed on the track, it doesn't matter if you are a PRO or ROOKIE. The SAME dangers and risks are still present. Think of phase change in the same manner. I could lay out a diagram with ever part and the length of every piece of tubing and you could easily assemble a rig. The problem is no 2 rigs ,while identical will not perform the same.the charge and the enviorment they operate in all make a difference. just a change in humidty makes a big differance. Thats why I have of big concern of guys copying building rigs without understanding why they do what they do. Cascades are especially dangerious because pressures can rapidly rise and you can do nothing to stop them. thats why a good undertanding of theroy is nessecary so you can design & operate your system safely and use the correct safety precautions. Don't try to build behond your ability,start simple and I,m sure all the experienced guys here will help you grow your knowledge. Frankly, if you think your are going to build the coldest most outrages rig for your first project,most guys here will be reluctant to help you.You must advance and prove your skills one step at a time,Just like auto racing. "work safe" Walt

[Sneil]

lol where did that come from? who are you specifically referring to anyway, everyone who's interested seems to be asking the right questions and if they're not they get pointed in the right direction. Nothing wrong with having this just as a hobby. Just because it is doesn't mean its a diffucult one to figure out, especially @ xtremesystems. people who read the stickies are fine and its all a learning process. I agree with what you say about cascades, but i havent seen anyone jumping in to one of those without building a single stage first and already knows the major saftey hazards in building one. we've heard enough of this i think. just read, understand, if you don't, ask. if you think you understand, still ask. thats all. seems to be whats been happening. don't see anyone doing anything they shouldn't be in this thread.

I think you need to stop looking at post count and look at what people are saying

[runmc]

lol where did that come from? who are you specifically referring to anyway, everyone who's interested seems to be asking the right questions and if they're not they get pointed in the right direction. Nothing wrong with having this just as a hobby. Just because it is doesn't mean its a diffucult one to figure out, especially @ xtremesystems. people who read the stickies are fine and its all a learning process. I agree with what you say about cascades, but i havent seen anyone jumping in to one of those without building a single stage first and already knows the major saftey hazards in building one. we've heard enough of this i think. just read, understand, if you don't, ask. if you think you understand, still ask. thats all. seems to be whats been happening. don't see anyone doing anything they shouldn't be in this thread.

I think you need to stop looking at post count and look at what people are saying

Hello Sneil - Walt is concerned about safety. He is trying to help keep someone from getting hurt. Plesae don't try to get in his way..
I appreciate his concern. There have been several people wanting to build the coldest cascade possible for their first rig. Walt and I have talked, and we have noticed these people and have become aware that this could become a big problem.
Please don't make insinuations about Walts intensions. It is obvious that you don't know his intensions.
I'm sorry but you haven't heard enough of this. Safety comes first..

[n00b 0f l337]

Yeah, I agree, I was cranky a few days ago. Safety's numero uno.

[Sneil]

ok sorry wdrzal guess i should'v kept my mouth shut. Safty is a major factor especially when dealing with cascades and i can understand where wdrzal was comming from. Thanks for your input on the matter runmc. I guess posts like wdzral's are needed if there are cases with people wanting to build cascades for their first rig without previos knowledge/experience(and you do need a lot of both. A LOT) in wich case wdrzal's advice is some very serious advice that needs to be taken. I shouldn't have assumed what i did.

[n00b 0f l337]

So back to subject. Are there any like free online take-a-test things? Or at least cheap?

[Sneil]

I think I paid 24.00USD and did an open book test online :slapass:

still in all,
the more knowledge about the field the safer it is...
:toast:
cheapest i've seen.
free, i seriously doubt it

BE SAFE! ;)

[wdrzal]

Everyone should remember many people read these threads,many never even post.Just because a statement is made in a thread someone started it is intended for everyone.Safety needs to be brought back to the number 1 priority and keeped there!!!

Also Please think of the owners of this and other sites,they are providing a FREE place for the flow of this knowledge,as soon as someone gets hurt,some lawyer somewere will blame the site and that could even lead to the end of it.No body wants that!!!! In the hvac/r enviroment you are constantly dealing with dangerious stuff,Knowing and following the correct procedures is the only thing that will protect you. "work safe"

[n00b 0f l337]

Wdrzal.
I'm still stressed, but this thread is on where someone can get the certification to buy refrigerants. We all know this is a free place, and we all know safety is key. Safety goes in the safety discussion thread, how to get certified goes in the how to get certified thread. Does anyone else have any links for online certification tests?

[wdrzal]

I knoiw of no online test,I only know of a open book test that can be ordered online. you must first study the material and then you can take a open book test for type I certification only, then mail in the test. other certifications must be protored. Finally safety has a place in every thread, no exceptions!!!

[blinky]

i took the online test at epatest.org two days ago, it was really easy and took me about 45 minutes

id recomend it :)

[wdrzal]

I looked at that, there is a 608 type I certification online. you study the 83 page manual then answer 50 questions, 25 core and 25 type I questions.

how did you do that in 45 min. or is that just how long completing the test took?

the study manual is posted on that site to read for free, so even if you don't pay to take the test read the manual.

[n00b 0f l337]

Yeah, currently reading the manual. You have 45 minutes for the questions, not the manual. Its multiple choice though I beleive.

[wdrzal]

the tests are multiple choice.

[runmc]

What refrigerants will you be able to buy with this certification? In what amounts? :confused:

[wdrzal]

If my memory is correct I think the epa allows you to purchase any refrigerant in containers over 20 pounds no matter what type you hold,but depending on type certification you may only work on and recover refrigerants from the type of systems you are certified for.

[runmc]

I have the Universal. I know when I took it was a closed book with a teacher there with you. The test cost $60 .

If you want to find a place to get your EPA Certification, all you have to do is a Google search :clap: :clap: Google (http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8)

[wdrzal]

Any type 608 cert, except type I,there must be a proctor(teacher) present. universal is a closed book exam that requires a passing grade of 72% on each of the 4 parts (25 questions each part) I can't remember the requirmets for 609 (automotive) cert.The local votech about twice a year offers a 40 hour course with the test given the second half of the 5th day.

if you want to take a course and not only the test contact your local vo-tech or go to escoinst.com to see if they offer courses in your area. the Epa is who mandates this testing, but the actual testing is done by private agencys , some offer just the test and some instruction too. If you are going to spend the money to take a 40 hour course 150 to 250 dollars besure to ask the qualifacations of the instructor. You don't want a english teacher that is just following a Q&A format giving the course.Here the vo-tech instructor teaches the course,its like a hvac crash course.the school has a flow bench and all the tools used in the hvac/r trade. you go into the shop and they are demonstrated. this is the best reason for taking a course if you can find a similiar one. Take brazing,I seen a guy who never brazed a joint,brazing perfect ones after 5 min.of instruction.Certian things are better learned in person. "work safe" walt

[n00b 0f l337]

Is there anyway to get less than 20 pounds of a refrigerant? THat seems like a lot.

[ZENNZZO]

Is there anyway to get less than 20 pounds of a refrigerant? THat seems like a lot.
:D LOLOL...most of the jugs are 30+lbs so if you think 20 is alot...your local refrigeration dood can gas your system after you build it too...

[n00b 0f l337]

Eh', how much would they charge, I dun feal like dealing with overpricing weirdo's who are taking hits from the n3 bottle in the back...

[harleybro]

Eh', how much would they charge, I dun feal like dealing with overpricing weirdo's who are taking hits from the n3 bottle in the back...
I like that one. Well try and find someone you know or friend of a friend. Going rate in NJ for service is roughly $65-75. I am a union HVAC tech and when signing on school to take an upgrade test I had to have universal cert. I took that through a supply house called Johnstone Supply it was the cheapest going. Once in union school I was forced to take the universal again so guess you can say I am doubley certified. Johnstone will give you the manual then schedule you for the test. I have never heard of a free test. I agree with what was said about safety. Last time I was doing residential I took a class from Carrier w/ a new freon out. Believe the headpressure in a reg. system ran 525-575. Of course each system will be differant but if you doins the brazing and building you wouldn't want something like that to let go on you. :)

[matttheniceguy]

in canada all you do is get CFC certified with a one day course for $150C and your good to handle all refrigerants. Anyone can do it without any prior ac/hvac training. gotta love it here :moon:

Did you take the course at BCIT? I was looking at getting the cert so I can buy materials locally. They won't sell me anything that will acess a phase change system without certification. I've told them I am fully BBQ certified, but they don't seem to care. Is this (http://www.bcit.ca/study/courses/hvac0145) the course you took? How boaring was it? I took a machine shop class at BCIT and the classroom stuff was brutal, like a monkey explaining how to peal a banana, but the monkey doesn't really know how it works, just knows to pull. At BCIT, Pie is EXACTLY 3 :rolleyes:

[Sneil]

taking it on the 28th in saskatchewan through SIAST. Don't have a clue as to what it'll be like... who cares, gives me what i want for only a day of torture. im used to boring classes from university anyway
its good for life here unlike alberta.

[wdrzal]

are you getting instruction or just the test, some offer just the test and "all" studying must be done before hand. even if they are instructing you ,you should study that online info that was linked above. Remember, you still have too pass the test.

[Sneil]

thanks i'll do that. its instruction as well so i never thought of preparing before hand. best be prepared!
:toast:

[blinky]

i went to john stone supply this morning to use my 608 type-1, and got me some 30lbs of R-22 for $65 :D

[wdrzal]

the moey you saved just on the one can of 22 probable cover the cost of the test, not counting what you learned along the way. Good job :toast: "work safe" Walt

[matttheniceguy]

Money saved from what? Without certification you could just buy propane, which would work fairly similar to R22 wouldn't it? Or are you considering R134a as the no-certification alternative?

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if you need a cert to buy R134a in Canada? I'd rather use propane anyway, but am just curious.

Sneil, SIAST looks very similar to BCIT, both decent trade schools. The courses there are kina weird. At university (mine at least) some Professor with multiple post doc's in the area he is teaching blabs on confusing the hell out of you. In most cases profs can't teach because everything at an undergrad level is trivial to them. Trade schools are just the opposite. Some guy who has worked in a field practicaly forever tells you everything you need to know and how to do everything, but it is clear he has no idea why what he is teaching you works. University frustrates you because you can't understand what the hell the prof is talking about, and trade school frustrates you because the teacher doesn't even know why what he is teaching works.

[n00b 0f l337]

Problem with propane is its explosive. Any leaks, boom. How does r134a do for temps?

[wdrzal]

I ment buying a 30 lb can over 1 pound ones, thats the saving