XBOX 360 @ 1 Teraflop *we should crunch with these*

[KaptainBlaZzed]

has everybody seen the spec sheet of the nex XBOX 360!!!! HOLY CRAP

3 x 3.2 Ghz with HT symetrical CPU's :slobber:
512mb GDDR3 memory:slobber:
and a GFX card comparable to the X850XT PE:slobber:

all capable of 1 TARAFLOP


The new xbox 360 would be able to outproduce the BEST DX cruncher at D2OL if it can be run on it.

XBOX 360 preview on [H]ard (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzY4LDI=)

[Mr_Slinky]

yes and another question is how much are they going to cost?

[cupra]

yes and another question is how much are they going to cost?

deam, microsoft done it, its will be expensive but hell, its will be a strong system...

[caLume]

omg, thats awesome :sabber: :eek:

[wfarid]

from what i've read over at xbox-scene and other sources, its going to be around 300-400 dollars.... if it was 1,000 dollars no mainstream person would get it, M$ will sell it for 300-400 dollars even if they are losing $ on it (like they did with the xbox) and just get their money back from games and peripherals..

[angrysquirrel]

Good luck getting Windows or Linux to run on it, I'm Mircosoft has figured out how to fix whatever is wrong with the current XBox. I wouldn't buy one unless someone does get Linux running on it and can lay out the steps he took.

On another note, do we know if these are the final specs? If IBM (I think it's powerpc) or ATI has low yields on their chips MS may have to tone them down a bit.

[perkam]

and a GFX card comparable to the X850XT PE

Actually at least 1.5x if not 2x the performance of the latest XT PE...quite easily. I wouldn't mind start crunching with these either, and there WILL be a pc version of it ;) So looking forward to that. Otherwise, a dedicated crunching prog for the xbox 2 will have to be made...

Perkam

[angrysquirrel]

Anyone else notice how little memory this has, both video and system.

512mb system
10mb video

However it is very high bandwidth (22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth, 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM :slobber: )

Maybe if the interface to the HDD is fast enough it can just put it in swap.

[][nSaNe]

that 10mb on die mem or something else... the 360 has 512mb video ram from gc14 samsung chips... 700mhz.

[perry_78]

This is absurd....

If one can hack it to run Windows or Linux I'm getting a few :D

[J-Mag]

deam, microsoft done it, its will be expensive but hell, its will be a strong system...

Microsoft WILL sell the system below cost, no question about that. So it will actually be cheap so to speak...

[perry_78]

Well, if the GFX is capable of roughly r520 performance (chip is branded r500 i believe), and on PCIE, I will get an xbox360, steal the gfx and run it for D2OL.

[trance565]

lol, ya, the xbox is supposed to have 3 versions, full console, pc/console bs, and pc versions, and im sure you will be able to get a program like on the old xbox that u can use to save games and wutnot on the hdd of the system, it will be really amazing, i also wanna see the ps3, whens it supposed to come out? cuz the 9 core cpu running at 4-5ghz would be awesome, but thats last i heard bout it, and that was round xmas


also, on the gfx card *48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines

[ShawnMcGrail]

...Man, Once the Linux hack has been found, these things will sell like hotcakes...

[perkam]

Well, if the GFX is capable of roughly r520 performance (chip is branded r500 i believe), and on PCIE, I will get an xbox360, steal the gfx and run it for D2OL.

lol methinks i've said it many times, R5xx (xbox) > R520 (pc).

Perkam

[perry_78]

Ah DAMN! PC VERSION? I will have 3 of these babies at home ASAP :D

*edit* wipe the drive, install Win2003 server and run d2ol off them, steal the cards, use them for benching :D

This must be the best thing for the D2OL bench team since bulk Xeon orders ;) I can image DDTUNG's new farm, consisting of 20 xbox360's :)

[trance565]

4....8.....pipe....lines.....

[NoX]

To me it looks like the gpu is built in the mobo. :stick:

http://img68.echo.cx/img68/4135/xbox2ju.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[The Mofo]

They wont lose money this time around. All of their stuff is manf by whom they want it to be by and in what quantity they need. They OWN the CPU and GPU design. Unlike the first where intel and nvidia put the screws to them by raising the price of the actual chips. This time around its an entirely different ball game.

[angrysquirrel]

They wont lose money this time around. All of their stuff is manf by whom they want it to be by and in what quantity they need. They OWN the CPU and GPU design. Unlike the first where intel and nvidia put the screws to them by raising the price of the actual chips. This time around its an entirely different ball game.

Are you sure IBM doesn't own the design of the cpu? It is a PowerPC. Even if Microsoft did change it a bit IBM still has patents and copyrights (I think copyrights apply to ICs, they apply to PCBs) that cover PowerPC chips.

Edit: As far as I know Mircosoft doesn't have team to design ICs, and I know for a fact that they don't have a fab.

BTW: Many more stats here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Custom_IBM_PowerPC-based_CPU). It is going to have AA, so games may look good on a console for a change.

[perry_78]

M$ owns the design for both CPU and GPU as far as my understanding goes.

Just saw the article on [H], that sucks. I was thinking of a cheap bench card, considering the theoretical performance ;)

[trakslacker]

Well, if the GFX is capable of roughly r520 performance (chip is branded r500 i believe), and on PCIE, I will get an xbox360, steal the gfx and run it for D2OL.

aye, a lot of stuff wrong here. First off, the R500 is a completely custom GPU that is *supposedly* far more advanced than the upcoming R520. Second, there will be no stealing of the GPU or running on PCIe, because the GPU is not a separate card on consoles. It is built into a main PCB with everything else. It's simply not possible to port it over to a PC in any form.

Running D2OL *might* be possible if someone hacks Linux into an Xbox2. Now M$ has surely worked on plugging all the security holes from the last Xbox. However, this is Microsoft we're talking about. If there is one thing they are good at, its leaving loopholes EVERYWHERE. I'd say Xbox 2 will be fully hacked within a month of public release. ;)

[unclutchable]

has everybody seen the spec sheet of the nex XBOX 360!!!! HOLY CRAP

3 x 3.2 Ghz with HT symetrical CPU's :slobber:
512mb GDDR3 memory:slobber:
and a GFX card comparable to the X850XT PE:slobber:

all capable of 1 TARAFLOP


The new xbox 360 would be able to outproduce the BEST DX cruncher at D2OL if it can be run on it.

XBOX 360 preview on [H]ard (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzY4LDI=)

actually the graphics are said to have 48 pipelines, therefore it cannot be compared to an X850XT PE.

[Eversor]

Running linux on it is one thing, now running windows!?!?!?
Are you insane, windows is x86 only, and were not talking x86 cores here.

[trance565]

lol, finally someone noticed the 48 pipelines ... anyways, win 64 bit should be out soon shouldnt it?

[Marlowe]

Well, the xbox360 is capable of communicating with a computer, and can also download stuff from the internet.. why don't you just ASK Microsoft to make a downloadable D2OL client for it? Then if they want people could use the xbox for a good purpose while they're not gaming on it. I'm shure they can do it.

[angrysquirrel]

Running linux on it is one thing, now running windows!?!?!?
Are you insane, windows is x86 only, and were not talking x86 cores here.

Um, no. Windows can run on PowerPC, Alpha, MIPS, IA-32, IA-64, and x64.

I currently have it running on 3 of these: DEC Multia(Alpha), various x86 systems(IA-32), and my a64(x64).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

[trance565]

ya, i got winxp on my a64, no probs, so it can definantly be run on a 64 bit system, just not using evthing to full potential

[Fr3ak]

You still don't get it :/
The new Xbox chip has IBM PowerPC (PPC) archtitecture. That means you won't be able to run any OS on it which is designed for x86 architecture.. The only way you would be able to run Windows on it would be to emulate it using a PPC version of Linux.
Apple is also using PowerPC, which is the reason you cant run Windows on them... There are 32bit and 64bit IBM PowerPC chips, but that doesnt mean you can run Windows on them, because they are still PowerPCs and not x86.
Hope you see where the problem is now.
Correct me if I am wrong. :)

[trance565]

oooooh ya lol, shizzy, forgot about that lol

[angrysquirrel]

You still don't get it :/
The new Xbox chip has IBM PowerPC (PPC) archtitecture. That means you won't be able to run any OS on it which is designed for x86 architecture.. The only way you would be able to run Windows on it would be to emulate it using a PPC version of Linux.
Apple is also using PowerPC, which is the reason you cant run Windows on them... There are 32bit and 64bit IBM PowerPC chips, but that doesnt mean you can run Windows on them, because they are still PowerPCs and not x86.
Hope you see where the problem is now.
Correct me if I am wrong. :)
/me corrects

There are PowerPC versions of Windows. Read the source I linked to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT).

Microsoft did not make Windows for only x86. I know this for a fact because I am running Windows on an Alpha based Multia (which cost me a fortune to get working, the one I picked up didn't come with the very rare 2.5" scsi hard drives it uses).

Edit: Now that I think about it, I wonder what CPU-Z would say that computer is running.

Edit2: Just found this, The First Windows NT PowerPC Machine (http://www.windowsitpro.com/Windows/Article/ArticleID/2247/2247.html)

Edit3: And this Compaq Services - SoftPaqs - Alpha NT (http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/files/alphant/)

[Bennah]

Im not sure what to make of this tbh, D2OL on an xbox 360, that would be out of this world and definatly some D2OL power right there.

[saaya]

what about the vpu? when the fx was introduced i read that it would be possible to write a folding client for it in theory and it would outperform a 10ghz p4 if done nicely... imagine what a 48 pipeline 500mhz vpu could do! :slobber:

[DDTUNG]

Ah DAMN! PC VERSION? I will have 3 of these babies at home ASAP :D

*edit* wipe the drive, install Win2003 server and run d2ol off them, steal the cards, use them for benching :D

This must be the best thing for the D2OL bench team since bulk Xeon orders ;) I can image DDTUNG's new farm, consisting of 20 xbox360's :)

Make that 40. ;)

DDTUNG :cool:

[STEvil]

saaya - www.gpgpu.org (or .net/.com?).

Nobody has managed (or take the time to) write one yet. Wish someone would.

[[XC] moddolicous]

looks like we have to find a way to run windows on it. Maybe if we can, DDtung will buy like 10 and make 20K a day!!

[perry_78]

Make that 40. ;)

DDTUNG :cool:

:toast:

Victor, the term insane isn't even appropriate - I suppose you wouldnt even use these as servers, just as nice folding rigs.

I can picture a room in your house - you walk, nice shelves, designer carpet and tons of these machines everywhere :D

[UCmajewski]

3 x 3.2 Ghz with HT symetrical CPU's <~~~~~ not as good as u think. In order chips like the original Pentium and down thats why they clock so high. Thats why they arent as fast and thats why a vanilla Athlon 64 or P4 would school them so hard it wouldnt be funny. You guys got to stop looking at numbers and realize that this is a console not a PC. Will retail for 300 and down someday .... and how good can it be? The only thing I find interesting is the GFX chip from ATI.

Your right squirrel but you forgot ARM architechture too. Windows Pocket PC on Intel Strong ARM.

[BMORIN]

Is this going to be more powerful than the nextgen playstation?

[STEvil]

quite likely.

[trakslacker]

Is this going to be more powerful than the nextgen playstation?


its never about power, its about how well designers can program on it. I'd guess the PS3 will actually be more powerful in terms of sheer Ghz and processing capability. However, I also suspect that the unconventional nature of the Cell processor will make programming for the PS3 markedly more difficult than for the Xbox2/360/Next. As a result, the new Xbox will most likely have superior looking games until PS3 gets some really talented programmers to master all the intricacies of Cell, most likely ~2 years after launch.

[trance565]

ya, the ps3 i think is 256 gigaflops, so the xbox is slightly more powerful, but with the cell chip and whatnot, there are alot greater possibilities, such as mind control .... which im working on.. but yes, the ps3 is less powerful when it comes to folding ... tho powerful none the less i would say

[PS2pcGAMER]

ya, the ps3 i think is 256 gigaflops, so the xbox is slightly more powerful, but with the cell chip and whatnot, there are alot greater possibilities, such as mind control .... which im working on.. but yes, the ps3 is less powerful when it comes to folding ... tho powerful none the less i would say

The PS3 is 2.2Teraflops according to Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html)

[[XC] moddolicous]

wow, that is insane. If we could really get these to crucnh ( someone will definetly figure out how to) then we could really take some numbers.

[trance565]

well, i cant remember the site i was lookin at, but it said the cell chip produces 256 gigaflops .... iuno, mebbe gamespot is right, which would pwn

[conrad.maranan]

wow, that is insane. If we could really get these to crucnh ( someone will definetly figure out how to) then we could really take some numbers.
Remember The AnandTech Linux XBOX PC Experiment (http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2271)? Let's just wait to see if they'll attempt to do the same thing for XBOX 360. ;)

[PS2pcGAMER]

GS updated the article and now it says at the bottom that the CPU does 218gigaflops.

[angrysquirrel]

I wouldn't worry about games on the PS3 being beaten by XBox 360. The current xbox is more powerfull than ps2 and I have yet to see a game that looks better than gt4 on it.

In the console world it's all about how well the programers can do their stuff (reminds me of the demoscene)

I didn't know that there was windows for ARM...next project: Windows on Zaurus.

[Magnj]

I wouldn't worry about games on the PS3 being beaten by XBox 360. The current xbox is more powerfull than ps2 and I have yet to see a game that looks better than gt4 on it.

In the console world it's all about how well the programers can do their stuff (reminds me of the demoscene)

I didn't know that there was windows for ARM...next project: Windows on Zaurus.
Halo 2 what? :) Haven't played GT4 but i would assume it owns halo2. I'll just wait for gt5 in 5 years on PS3

[FireDragon]

You still don't get it :/
The new Xbox chip has IBM PowerPC (PPC) archtitecture. That means you won't be able to run any OS on it which is designed for x86 architecture.. The only way you would be able to run Windows on it would be to emulate it using a PPC version of Linux.
Apple is also using PowerPC, which is the reason you cant run Windows on them... There are 32bit and 64bit IBM PowerPC chips, but that doesnt mean you can run Windows on them, because they are still PowerPCs and not x86.
Hope you see where the problem is now.
Correct me if I am wrong. :)


I have a freind that has windows on a mac..and osX on his PC it CAN be done...anything can be run on anything with the right tweaks and patches but no one ever said that it can do everything that the OS can normally do...it is just a matterr of how bad you want it...Microsoft could come out with an OS that could run on the PPC tech...it is just a matter of if they want to or not...and I am sure that someone around here will come up with something or a third party co.

Dragon

[FireDragon]

has everybody seen the spec sheet of the nex XBOX 360!!!! HOLY CRAP

3 x 3.2 Ghz with HT symetrical CPU's :slobber:
512mb GDDR3 memory:slobber:
and a GFX card comparable to the X850XT PE:slobber:

all capable of 1 TARAFLOP


The new xbox 360 would be able to outproduce the BEST DX cruncher at D2OL if it can be run on it.

XBOX 360 preview on [H]ard (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzY4LDI=)


It is MUCH greater then an X850XT PE IT HAS MORE THAN 2x the pipes...and if PS3's is GREATER than 2x 6800ultra's in SLI then IT HAS to be more...it based on a FASTER BETTER version of the Rr520 core...it has like 40 something pipes...and over 500MHz on the core...IDK maybe i got my info wrong but i HOPE for Microsofts sake that it has more horse than an X850XT PE what would be the point of ALL that processing power to have a vid card that can be run on a 1.8GHz A64...

Dragon

[CD 1986]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how can Microsoft be selling a console later this year for $300-400, which has a GPU with *twice the performance of an X850XT PE (in shader operation only)* when an X850XT PE for the PC costs about the same or more than that by itself? Just seems like the figures don't add up when comparing price / performance of a PC to this new console...even taking into account price drops on PC hardware during the year. :confused:

[FireDragon]

They are taking a MOJOR hit in the console part of it about 300% maybe more that is why to = it all out every person is expected to buy at LEAST 10 games...that is how they make there mony not on the consoles themselvs as like I said they loose money on them...they make it back on the games...

Dragon

[Der_KHAN]

theres a nice article on the inq about that teraflop - :bs: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23285



A teraflop means 1000 gigaflops, so IBM is claiming that one PS3 is 2000% faster than an eight way power5 server selling at half a million bucks??

This is stupid.

Dave Yand one xbox360 at 1teraflop is just as ridiculous

[Magnj]

They are taking a MOJOR hit in the console part of it about 300% maybe more that is why to = it all out every person is expected to buy at LEAST 10 games...that is how they make there mony not on the consoles themselvs as like I said they loose money on them...they make it back on the games...

Dragon

I only own like 5 xbox games. Don't know alot of people that own more than that. Most people bought Halo, a madden or 2, Halo 2 and splinter cell. How many of you guys have 10 games?

[perry_78]

I own:

Halo - great
Splinter Cell - sucks
Project Gotham Racing 2 - great
Yager - ok
Rallysport Challenge

Bro owns:

Pro Evolution Soccer 4
Fifa 2004
Fifa 2005
NHL 2004

SO basically in a family you get to the 10 games. I know a guy with 34 games :/

[perry_78]

theres a nice article on the inq about that teraflop - :bs: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23285

and one xbox360 at 1teraflop is just as ridiculous

BTW I agree, 1TF sounds way too much. I remember reading about government projects where their PC's are capable of 1 few teraflops. And here we are talking about multi-million/billion projects.

[Der_KHAN]

just take a look at the top500 list (http://www.top500.org/lists/plists.php?Y=2004&M=11) (the fastest supercomputers in the world)

102 of them dont even reach 1tflop in linpack. were talking about 256 xeons at 2.66ghz for example.

the famous earth simulator reaches 35.8 btw

[trance565]

lol, ps3 will be near 90 on that list .... perhaps, and xbox 360 will be on there too.... least they should be -.-

[STEvil]

wouldnt be surprised to be seeing PS3 games run on an XBox 360 or the other way around given the similarities in hardware..

[UCmajewski]

wont ps 3 games be on blu ray discs?

[Cossey]

yep its sonys way of pushing their dvd format. more film studios etc will be on their side if they can show they have already got several million ppl worldwide with bluray capable ps3s.

the teraflop thing might be marketing thing because of the vector cpus. ie on a multitheaded task a xbox will produce the same as a 1 teraflop normal cpu.

[perry_78]

Pretty smart move by sony. I think it will be of crucial importance that this time it is Sony that doesnt own the technology behind the PS3, like it was with M$ and xbox1.

Sony and Toshiba might have assisted IBM with CELL, so the patent costs etc. won't be too high, but from my understanding it is still IBM which owns the technology and manufactures the chip. NVidia is famous for not backing down, so here yet another problem might be presented. XDR RAM of course is courtesy of RAMBUS, and as nVidia, these guys like their money :)

We'll see how it goes, PS3 has nicer specs but xbox360 has a theoretical economical advantage.

I noticed the GFX is hard soldered :( If one manages to install Windows it would be a nice benching setup nonetheless :D

[Funny_S]

3 x 3.2 Ghz with HT symetrical CPU's :slobber:



let's oc these babies :toast:

[Der_KHAN]

lol, ps3 will be near 90 on that list .... perhaps, and xbox 360 will be on there too.... least they should be -.-yeah sure...

[FireDragon]

Are you sure IBM doesn't own the design of the cpu? It is a PowerPC. Even if Microsoft did change it a bit IBM still has patents and copyrights (I think copyrights apply to ICs, they apply to PCBs) that cover PowerPC chips.

Edit: As far as I know Mircosoft doesn't have team to design ICs, and I know for a fact that they don't have a fab.

BTW: Many more stats here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Custom_IBM_PowerPC-based_CPU). It is going to have AA, so games may look good on a console for a change.


Microsoft paid MILLIONNS to have the chip designed they gave IBM what they wanted it to do and IBM made it happen at a rather substantial cost IBM made it on the PPC platform because that is how they saw the end product happing NOT because Microsoft told them to IBM made it to do what Microsoft wanted...Microsoft owns the chip and can now have it made ANYWHERE as they own the designing even if IBM engineered it.

Dragon

[trance565]

hmmm ... i wonder which gpu will be better, the ati or the nvidia, im kina leaning towards ati, cuz their single gpu cards rule... but if nvidia makes something as awesome as ati is making for the xbox360, if not better ... lol, i wanna kno the price for the ps3