MCP650 sucks...?

[STEvil]

Finally plugged mine in to test it out, and it sure does seem to suck?

5 feet of 1/2" ID hose on intake and outlet running to a sink, I primed it first so it wouldnt run dry etc..

Anyways, it sure didnt push a very large volume of water or have a ton of pressure.. and it was NOISY.


Time to get some parts to test my Mag5 with.. I sure hope its better, otherwise i'm going to bust out some equipment and build my own pump... the output the 650 had was truely sad. I've seen bong coolers that would slaughter it. :rolleyes:

[EnJoY]

Your testing must have been significantly flawed in some way Stevil. The MCP650 will annihilate the Danner Mag 5 in a watercooling loop. The 5, like all it's brothers will leak around the impeller housing if you do not seal it with silicone. Secondly, the DMag 5 will dump a lot of heat into your loop, much more than an MCP650.

[STEvil]

its pretty hard to screw up putting the hose into the water source and turning on a switch?

[EnJoY]

Well, all I am saying is that the MCP650 is a very decent pump with good flow. Therefore, either your perception is warped...or your testing is... :confused:

[STEvil]

got a video showing flow? Maybe i'm just used to the pony360 i've been working with for the last while (sprays water ~ 20 feet using 1/2" ID garden hose with thumb over it).

[Nubius]

lol damn, I'd say you are infact used to that pony360 haha

[chunkylover77]

The 650 I have is a good pump. I just cant stand the humming. It is driving me crazy

[Nubius]

The 650 I have is a good pump. I just cant stand the humming. It is driving me crazy That's weird cause I can't even here my friends at all even when his fans are turned down

[STEvil]

the only problem with the pony is that it uses a rubber impeller in a cicular drive chamer with one flat side, so the impeller is going to wear out and fall to peices eventually....

The motor on it is really nice though.. maybe i'll use it to build my superpump.. :D

[MaxxxRacer]

Stevil, your perception is just squewed pretty badly by that other pump you were using.

for the size of hte mcp650 it provides pretty good flow.. plenty for most watercooling system that is.

[sluflyer06]

thats weird, my 650 flows like a hoss, i forgot to screw down the fill cap once on my Res and it blew the cap about 3 feet straight up along with almost a liter of water. good thing it was in a seperate WC case

[STEvil]

my setup didnt have any pressure or restriction other than the 10 feet total of 1/2" ID pipe.. if I put my thumb over the end it would spray pretty good, but not as good as the pony and far less water too.. ;)

I was expecting more I guess is all.

*sad*

:D

[eva2000]

i got 2x MCP650 and 1x MCP600 are pretty high flow for me.. sure your pump isn't undervolted ? i.e. 11.5v on 12v rail ? try bumping 12v rail on psu to 12.4v :)

[STEvil]

I didnt measure the voltage, but I assume it was actually near 13v due to noise and thats what the psu was running with fans attached last I used it (old 250w atx powerman or something).

[Nubius]

in the D4 manual it says that it can handle up to 16v quite easily but of course this would shorten lifespan. Approx 40,000 life hours at 12v.......I personally don't care to run it at any more but has anyone had decent luck running it higher?

[saratoga]

Isn't the 650 a fairly low flow, high pressure pump? I thought the idea was if you hooked it up to a restrictive block it would work better in the 1-2 GPM range then a comparable magdrive pump.

[STEvil]

MCP350 is low flow..

[STEvil]

Did some toying with it today... ran it without the top off and a file rather close to the impeller :slap:

:D

Seriously ;)


Ok, here's what I did:

I put it under the bathtub faucet and turned it on (to keep water on the bearing so it wouldnt burn out by being run dry), and held a file against the outside of the impeller to basically grind off part of it as it seems to me that was impeding flow somewhat..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29393&stc=1

The plastic is pretty hard and my file sucked, so I didnt get as much gone as I would have liked, but I think it had a positive impact on flow rates.. or at least it sure seemed to.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29394&stc=1

at least it shoots about half the length of a bathtub with no restriction now (10 feet total 1/2" ID tubing anyways)... if I put my thumb over the end it would shoot at least 3 bathtubs in length I bet.. (I did try this, but aimed it into the tub) :D

Its still not as good as the pony365 (360 was 110v version, my bad) which is rated at 90gph at 40ft head... but its acceptable now ;) Before it was only going maybe 3 inches after leaving the exit pipe. Its also quieter now :toast:

All tests done @ 11.01v.. not 13.0v as I had assumed the PSU was running at.

[Nubius]

Whoa! That's cool dude......I kind of want to try that with mine now haha, but chances are I'd just ruin it as I'm not entirely sure of the process you went through.......part of it being I don't know the parts of the pump that well haha.

Maybe you can make some cool 'modding' instructions for this?

[STEvil]

took it apart, ran water onto it from tub spout so the bearing wouldnt die and turned it on, then held the file against the outer part of the impeller to shave it down some.

Only problem is the pump motor isnt overly strong so you gotta be carefull about how much pressure you put on the impeller with the file as it spins. Any wobble produced by the spinning impeller will cause increased pressure on the file taking a small extra bit of material off each time, so effectively you are balancing it too as it spins.

[Psyche911]

If Nub is like me, I'm not even sure which part is the impeller.
From your photo, it looks like you're referring to the outside of the black part in the center...yes?

[STEvil]

the black part the arrow points at is the impeller, the entire removeable round item.

[Nubius]

did you grind it at an angle or anything or basically just made the edge less tall?

And yeah lol at first I wasn't sure if you meant the white or black part :p Now I'm clear on that.

[STEvil]

made it less tall then rounded and smoothed it.

[Nubius]

Sorry for the barrage of questions stevil, just wanted to make sure I had everything clear before I attempted it.

You basically filed down the little lip I've highlighted in this picture so it doesn't stand off as far from the impeller?

[STEvil]

yup, exactly that.

[Nubius]

Hmm cool deal. Don't suppose you could get some after pics with a side shot like that could ya? That's crazy that you even thought to do that, or that it even made a vast improvement. I'm pretty poor though lol so if I screwed this up I'd be up a creek, but man if it gives a nice improvement I really want to try it.........damn you for peaking my interest :D

[STEvil]

I was just playing around and imagining how the flow works as it comes out of the impeller (i have a tendancy of being able to visualize forces somewhat)... that little ridge doesnt help any ;)

I'll go tear the pump apart right now, see if I can get any kind of a decent pic with my 2.0mp vivitar camera (what a pos.. lol).

EDIT

after about 50 pictures.....

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29432&stc=1

[Nubius]

lol yeah I've always been a visual person, but it doesn't matter if you don't fully understand how it works and how it doing something might increase flow lol.

I'm kind of afraid to hold it under water like you did though, cause I mean.....the motor is right there lol and the wire going to it so I'd be afraid of shorting it......plus I don't have any tubing right now anyway so I can't test it anyway, but I figured I could just take my dremel to it on low speed and remove a little bit of it. That's pretty awesome if you've basically figured a way to effectively gain more flow from the thing.

If you could grab some profile pics like I did that'd be greatly appreciated :D

[STEvil]

im gonna take more off I think, but i'll have to mount it in a lathe or something so I can do it since the motor wont turn it with a rougher file or more pressure.

Can always clean it up after by doing what I did the first time, dont have to worry about shorting as long as you throw a towel over teh psu reall. The pump is pretty much water tight except for where the cables go in on the back, you could put some sealant on there or something. I didnt bother, the shocks would just add to the fun :D:D

[Nubius]

Yeah I was kind of wondering how well it'd do if you took the lip completely off and grinded it down flat like in the picture attached. Do you think that'd make it better or worse? Is that somewhat what you're going for?

[STEvil]

flat to the impeller blades is as far as I would go, and only from the side.

edit

Yeah, like the pic (i'm blind lol).

[Nubius]

Are you going to try it and go that far or would you rather simply not push your luck lol

from the pic you put up it's kind of hard to tell how far you actually cut it down.

[STEvil]

I cut it about in half, maybe a bit more.

Depends how much work I have to do over the next couple days, but I might go and knock of the rest of it and then some.... ;)

[shadowing]

Kill it! Kill it! :P

[STEvil]

I might, lol :D

[Nubius]

lol, good luck stevil, definitely let us know how it goes ;)

I saw in my garage my dad has a 14GPM pump meant for the trailer we have outside our house lol....he said it cost about $200, no doubt it's got a nice amount of force behind it lol, but I think the PSI is waaaaay too much, but of course water cooling pump just had to cross my mind :p

[Nubius]

STEvil - just wondering if you ever grinded down any more of the lip on that pump :D

[STEvil]

havent had time.

[Nubius]

Ahh, understandable, was just curious

[MaxxxRacer]

hm... just saw this today.. lol.. interesting adventure there stevil..

[nikhsub1]

My prediction is messing with the impeller will hork your pump. It will get thrown off balance and blow itself to bits. Cant wait to see this.

[MaxxxRacer]

lol nik.. well dont be sooo negative. he modded it once and its still working! so there is hope for it still..

but as ive found its always the second time around that u bork it...

[Nubius]

well I have unnatural computer luck to the point of even thinking about modding something will screw it up :D

[STEvil]

the impeller is a lot stronger than it looks (being that most of it is made of stainless steel and magnets). Even if it were missing 1/4 of it I bet it wouldnt care other than wobbling a lot and vibrating against whatever its sitting on (ie: case bottom).

The balance is just to reduce vibration noise really and I can rebalance it how I did the original modding.

[Nubius]

well it's kind of like when people go to see a stunt show.......your modding being the show, no one truly goes there to see the stunts, they go there to see the off chance that the dude eats shyte and breaks some bones :D

Of course I'd never wish that on ya as I'd really like to see if it works out and then do the same to mine haha

[MaxxxRacer]

crash crash crash!! lol.. jk

just dont fubar it stevil

[STEvil]

I think i've increased max pressure to something around 60+ PSI

pics incomming in a couple minutes.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30885&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30886&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30887&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30888&stc=1


Hope you can tell whats been done in these pics well enough.. I havent tested to see what hollowing out the interior had yet, though. Its important to note you dont want to hollow it right out, just get rid of the edges that were there somewhat to allow more water into it and thus greater suction, greater pressure, and greater flow..!

[STEvil]

A couple of the housing where I smoothed the outlet..

EDIT

When they made these series of pumps (and the new ones that are out now) they should have coated the back of the impeller where it sits on the ceramic bearing in ceramic, then polished it. Polished ceramic on polished ceramic has a lower friction coefficient than pressured ice on pressured ice... which is very darn low (since ice liquifies under pressure.. hence why you can skate!) :D

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30889&stc=1
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30890&stc=1

[Nubius]

hmmm crazy lol. In the first pics I can tell you filed down that ridge quite a bit, but I can't tell how much of the innard has been smoothed out since my pump is now actually in my system I can't take a look to see what it originally looks like.

[STEvil]

A lot.

I flattened it out as much as I could with the dremel bits I had on hand, but left a sort of cone in the center

[Nubius]

so basically you drilled out around the center?

But even when you say 'a lot' I don't remember how much is there by default lol

I would try it, but I don't have another pump so I don't know if I want to risk completely fukkin it up although that's pretty damn cool if you can get a significant improvement in flow. How did you measure PSI BTW?

[RaptorRaider]

I think i've increased max pressure to something around 60+ PSI
What?
Normally the max pressure of these pumps is less than 5 PSI.

[YanBooth]

Well, this makes me sway my mind back the the 50Z. I don't want to mod it, I don't trust myself. Does the improvement of the 50Z make it worth the extra noise?

Thanks,

Yan

[STEvil]

it says its rated to 50psi on the housing.

I dont have anything to measure it with yet, so i'm just guessing. I also havent tested since I did hollow out the center.

[RaptorRaider]

it says its rated to 50psi on the housing.
I think they mean the housing can't hold much more than 50PSI.
The max pressure of the pump itself should be about 4.6PSI.

[koei]

If you had alot of noise, it's likely theres air bubble inside the pump. When you get the bubbles out and the pump its running at best capacity, theres very little noise and the flow/pressure is impressive. Here is my second MCP650, actually D4. I enlarged the intake and exhaust with a dremmel a bit. It may not show that well in the picture, but the the flow is very high. If I put my fringer at the outlet end, I can feel a strong push.

[STEvil]

look back on page 1 or 2 koei

[mad mikee]

Anybody think about this on there since it has teh same type impeller?

[MaxxxRacer]

you can try it...

[nando19]

STEVIL would this mod apply to a mcp655 as I bought one the other day

[STEvil]

should work for any pump with the same style impeller... but there are always risks ;)

[Nubius]

Risks in modding the manufacturer design? Never! :P :D