I've got a leak!!

[kryptobs2000]

:eek:

Ok, so I put my pcer all together. I pull a vacuum on it for a few hours, and the low side gauge goes to -30 (lowest it will go). After about an hour it's at -20, and another hour it's at -15. And slowly it'll leak out (or rather air in). So Right now I have no gasses (nitrogen, propane etc..) to test with, and then put soap water on it. I'm thinking it'd be a bad idea to do this with a vacuum as it might suck in the soap water right?

The leak is most likely in my block, or where the block connects to the flexable hose. So anyway I can test this?

[blinky]

rig up a disposable propane bottle to shrader adapter, then fill it with propane, and use soap

or... get one of those $300 leak detecters :p:

[wdrzal]

thats a slow leak,bad manifold hoses also can be permeable. do not apply soapy water when in a vacuum walt

[wdrzal]

check manifold especilly around valve stems,sometime nuts need tightening. walt

[kryptobs2000]

rig up a disposable propane bottle to shrader adapter, then fill it with propane, and use soap

or... get one of those $300 leak detecters :p:

I got one of the torches to use for that, but couldn't find a schrader valve locally, so I orderd a few off ebay.

edit: oh, also, I had vacuumed it out for a few hours, then closed the service valves, and taken off the manifold gauges. Next day I tested the pressure with the guages and it was 0psi, so I just opened it (with the gauges off) and sure enough, there was no vacuum, so I'm pretty sure there is a leak. Guess I'll just have to fill it with propane then. How much should I put in there?

[wdrzal]

fill with bottle upright(vapour) depending on ambiant temp you will get 100 to 110 psi,thats enough to find leak.

[Entity_Razer]

Fill with propane or just plane old Oxigen and dip in in water :)

can't you like reverse the pumps action so it goes from vacuum to blowing?

[smurfmods]

That doesn't seem like a good idea... You don't want to introduce even more moist air into that system.

Filling with Nitro is best of course, but I used r290.

[wdrzal]

Fill with propane or just plane old Oxigen and dip in in water :)

can't you like reverse the pumps action so it goes from vacuum to blowing?


NEVER,NEVER ,NEVER USE OXYGEN. your going to kill someone!!!! :caution: :explode2: :explode2: :explode2: :caution:

please if you are unsure of a procedure do not recommend to others!

Walt

[total_assault]

NEVER,NEVER ,NEVER USE OXYGEN. your going to kill someone!!!! :caution: :explode2: :explode2: :explode2: :caution:

please if you are unsure of a procedure do not recommend to others!

Walt
oxygen is explosive when there is a small leak at high pressure right?

[kryptobs2000]

well.. my dad called and he's gonna bring some nitrogen and a leak detector over tommarrow morning hopefully. He's not all that dependable so we'll see, but that'll work good :)

[wdrzal]

oxygen it self is not explosive,but because of its molecular structure it easily combines with any fuel,(any thing that is flammable) the oil in the compressor (fuel)would combine with the oxygen(oxidizer) and :explode2: :explode2: :explode2:

Walt

[JSU]

I think he meant air but its a stupid thing to do either way. there are 3 main proplems with propane that come to mind. 1. It is absorbed by the oil. 2. the pressure changes rapidly with the temperature. and 3. if you dont pay attention and it leaks out into and enclosed area and there is a spark or something present it not gonna be pretty.

[wdrzal]

I think he meant air but its a stupid thing to do either way. there are 3 main proplems with propane that come to mind. 1. It is absorbed by the oil. 2. the pressure changes rapidly with the temperature. and 3. if you dont pay attention and it leaks out into and enclosed area and there is a spark or something present it not gonna be pretty.

I have been advocating against people new to refrigeration not to use propane all a long. I did not recommend the use of it.Having said that, it is similiar to r-22 except it is Flammable!!! I think 134a is a good choice.you can purchase small cans anywhere.Since most of these guys do not have equiptment to recover,evacuation is a problem,and propane is cheap,thats what they choose. walt

[gkiing]

oxygen is explosive when there is a small leak at high pressure right?

I think they meant air but yes, pure oxygen reacts VERY quickly with some metals and in some cases fast eneough to cause an explosion. That's why oxygen regulators are pure brass, since brass doesnt oxidize.

[wdrzal]

I think they meant air but yes, pure oxygen reacts VERY quickly with some metals and in some cases fast eneough to cause an explosion. That's why oxygen regulators are pure brass, since brass doesnt oxidize.

brass will burn with pure oxygen,but only with extremly high pressure,above 10,000 psi. having said that a brass regulator is the best.long history of good performance and safety. walt

[gkiing]

brass will burn with pure oxygen,but only with extremly high pressure,above 10,000 psi. having said that a brass regulator is the best.long history of good performance and safety. walt

yeah, like anyones ever going to encounter that. The vapour pressure of oxygen stored as liquid in a cylinder at room temp isint that high.

[LostInSpace278]

As plainly stated on acet/oxy set up. NEVER use oil on threads. Oxy combines with oil, and goes :explode:

[gkiing]

As plainly stated on acet/oxy set up. NEVER use oil on threads. Oxy combines with oil, and goes :explode:

that applies to most high pressure regulators also.

[bh2k]

Work safe, work smart people.

[dippyskoodlez]

I have been advocating against people new to refrigeration not to use propane all a long. I did not recommend the use of it.Having said that, it is similiar to r-22 except it is Flammable!!! I think 134a is a good choice.you can purchase small cans anywhere.Since most of these guys do not have equiptment to recover,evacuation is a problem,and propane is cheap,thats what they choose. walt

You happen to know any common places to get 134a? my minifridge uses it.. lol :stick:

Seems like a nice safe learning gas eh? ;) (as in not nearly as dangerous as propane)

[wdrzal]

any place like walmart or auto stores will sell it in 12 oz cans.

the danger that I worry about is not storing propane properly. alot of people work in their houses ,dorm roms,ect .the actual amount in a system is small.

everyone keep in mind that is my "personal opinion" about propane,I seen a lot of pics with propane bottles inside living spaces.not good

[Thorry]

Using oxigen isn't a very smart idea; just ask the guys over at NASA, they've got some first hand experience :+

About propane: I've got a can sitting in the closet next to my computer. The can says avoid direct exposure to sunlight and tempratures above 50 degrees C. So putting it in a closet (doesn't get anywhere near 50, in summer 40 degrees max) couldn't be all that bad now could it?

At the DIY store they've got like 50 of those cans all in 1 pile, if they were unsafe we would see a lot more explosions in DIY stores.

Offcourse it is safer not to have a can in your home, but it also would be safer not to have airplanes...

[kryptobs2000]

well I found the leak. Fixed it, but in fixing it, I had to heat the block up for awhile, and even though I had a wet rag on the flexable hose, it still got too hot and the plastic melted :(. Now I need to replace that. I got so close to finishing this too, now twice as much work. Sucks bad....

[wdrzal]

statisticaly,if every one flew instead of owning a car, there would be less deaths. airplanes are safer!

flamable refrigerants are not commonly used in usa. r290 is sure cheaper not to mention all the recovery equiptment the epa made everyone buy

I head propane is starting to be used in europe for refrigeration. any truth too that? walt

[hatemi]

Danfoss makes compressors for R290. And R600 is commonly used in europe by now. My fridge/freezer has 2 R600 electrolux compressors in it:)

[Thorry]

I've heard R290 is being used because the risks involved are very small, the stuff is cheap and doesn't hurt the enviroment.

Also it's hypocrite not to use it because it is flammable, I use a gas burning stove to cook my food every single day; so I've already got a flammable gas under pressure in my house.

R600 is very common these days, my fridge also uses R600.

Also if there were as many airplanes as there are cars today flying would not be safer ;)
Also in my appartment I prolly won't be hit by a car (9th floor) whilst an airplane can kill me any day.

[wdrzal]

propane to me is just like a firearm,the gun isn't dangerous it's the user.If safe practices are followed,then its safe.All the discustion that was sparked will remind people to think of safety first.

planes are safer per transpertation mile.
If I ever crash I will try not to hit the 9th floor. walt

[Thorry]

propane to me is just like a firearm,the gun isn't dangerous it's the user.If safe practices are followed,then its safe.All the discustion that was sparked will remind people to think of safety first.

planes are safer per transpertation mile.
If I ever crash I will try not to hit the 9th floor. walt

Jup that's prolly the most important thing: SAFETY FIRST

If you think about what you do each step of the way and wear protective clothing/gloves and glasses everything will prolly be just fine.

Thank you for not crashing on me :toast:

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Propane is fairly common on RTV's and such for a refrigerant. It allows you to have one gas source that supplies both heat and cooling capabilities.

[wdrzal]

Propane is fairly common on RTV's and such for a refrigerant. It allows you to have one gas source that supplies both heat and cooling capabilities.

Actully propane is not the refrigerant in a RV. They use amonia and water,the propane is used as a heat source to to get the process started, some propane fridges use a small constent flame and some use a flame that is lit once a day then enstinguised. propane fridges have no moving parts,unless there is a fan installed, Walt

[Snowman89]

rig up a disposable propane bottle to shrader adapter, then fill it with propane, and use soap

or... get one of those $300 leak detecters :p:
those leak detectors is ust crap, a friend that work as a Frigirator techican, dunno if that is what it is called in english, but he was over at my place and refilled my vapochill and we talked about that and he worked with maybe cases when there was a leak and he used the instruments with no go and then used soap water and found the leak

[wdrzal]

those leak detectors is ust crap, a friend that work as a Frigirator techican, dunno if that is what it is called in english, but he was over at my place and refilled my vapochill and we talked about that and he worked with maybe cases when there was a leak and he used the instruments with no go and then used soap water and found the leak
all methods have their benifits and problems,electronic detectors detect the pressence of freon and lead you to the gereral area of the leak,to pinpoint the hole soapy water is the best. electronic detectors do not work well in windy areas. Walt

[kryptobs2000]

well, I found the leak, fixed it, and melted my flex hose in the process. I replaced that, made 2 very small, easily fixable leaks in the process. Now it should be all good. But I run the system (havn't fixed the 2 small leaks but they don't really matter alot, just wanted to see if it ran, would love to see frost :)). So anyways, I run the system, the low side starts to pull a vacuum and the high side reads 100psi or so. (running with r290.

So I figure something is sealed up somewhere, however, if I unscrew filter from the condesor, seal the condensor up, and so the filter is the only hole, and I start filling it up with propane, I can feel it coming out of the filter. So this makes no sense to me. If there's blockage soemwhere between the filter and the block, yet air will go through, whats the problem?

[wdrzal]

First all leaks need to be repaired !

I think you have a blocked cap tube,but will have to diaginose first, may just not have enough charge

This note is for all the people that critizied me for saying people NEW to refrigeration should not use propane, :caution: "2 small leaks dosn't matter alot" :caution: this is what happens,I could not even think of all the dangerious things people will do

krybtops2000 do not take that note personel, lets put it in the catagory of what not to do
Walt

[kryptobs2000]

lol, well I believe all leaks are fixed now. I'll leave it overnight to find out, but I fixed the 2 there. It still pulls a vacuum on the low side, but I thought that it could just be undercharged as well. I know it is undercharged, I just didn't think it was undercharged enough to not gimme any kind of temps.

[hatemi]

depending on the condensing temperature you need much more than 100PSI to condense propane.

[wdrzal]

small is a "relative" term,maybee it was leaking out faster than he could put it in. :D :D :D it was only 2 "small " leaks :rolleyes:

we will get him going ,just as long as he dosn't burn it up first :explode2:

[kayl]

statisticaly,if every one flew instead of owning a car, there would be less deaths. airplanes are safer!

flamable refrigerants are not commonly used in usa. r290 is sure cheaper not to mention all the recovery equiptment the epa made everyone buy

I head propane is starting to be used in europe for refrigeration. any truth too that? walt


http://www.hychill.com/

said its mean to work really well for reverse cycle airconditioners.
seems to do fine in kayls phase change coolers as well :stick:


they also said they take some of the heat product out of it (not sure how though)
said if you attach the refrigerant bottle to the bbq couldnt cook dinner on it wouldnt get hot enough.
also i think ya need a really hot flame for it to ingnite.
ie flick the light switch and its not going to blow, but if ya use say a blow torch its going to ingite.

dont quote me on all this though.

i think they starting to sell more to the us as well, the distributor i spoke to.


i got this from ages back good old bbz r290, a flame througher in wrong hands

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27813&stc=1

[gkiing]

hey kayl, I tried that after brazing my evap.. heated the evap while running propane through it (without lighting it tho) and it reduced the oxidized copper back to pure copper. After I put a flame to it and saw a nice fire like that, but over about 10psi coming from a captube the flame goes out.

[wdrzal]

Kayl I looked at that HR290 I didn't see any differance than R290 except the lower flamable range is 1.9%,as compared to 2.3% the upper limit is 9.5% same as R290. I do not see any advantage over regular propane. I have too investigate more. I bet its 10 times the price .

[kayl]

yep auto ignition that doesnt mean nothing right.
hc22/502 is 550c.
vapopur density 1.5 to 2.0 air=1


it also says hc22/502 contains odourant ethyl mercaptan unless other wise authorised. (recommended 25 mg/kg). this is detetectable to 20% of its lower flammability limit.

when ya burn it the flame is like green or light blue/green hard to describe.
its the only stuff i can get, has to do.

[wdrzal]

That Ethyl Mercaptan is what they add to natural gas and its by products to give it that "rotten egg odor" walt

[[486]]

the planes would be safer if all the terrorists were tied to the wings

and, the evil empire has r134a! they have everything!!!

[Xeon th MG Pony]

And Canada is seriously considering R-290 from what I understand.

And in Canada releasing r-134a as an air duster is perfectly legal. If you go to Oc Forums you'll see how I modded an AirDuster can to remove the r-134a to a steel cylinder.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

people NEW to refrigeration should not use propane.
Walt

^ That I agree with.
How ever people new should not even be BUILDING units untill they understand all the risks and such and have a good concept of high pressur gasses.

[runmc]

']the planes would be safer if all the terrorists were tied to the wings

and, the evil empire has r134a! they have everything!!!

What is this suppose to mean??:confused:

We frown heavily on people spamming these forums. You post count can be set back and you won't reach 100 for a couple of months.

[[XC] MarioMaster]

you can get R-134a from those "compressed air" cans to dust your computer. and you're not getting frost because you are undercharged, try adding some more propane and you should get liquid in the cap tube. the pressures for my system are around 10/120 for propane (slightly overcharged) r134a is a lower pressure refrigerant

[jinu117]

those leak detectors is ust crap, a friend that work as a Frigirator techican, dunno if that is what it is called in english, but he was over at my place and refilled my vapochill and we talked about that and he worked with maybe cases when there was a leak and he used the instruments with no go and then used soap water and found the leak

You used one yourself? It tend to be too sensitive at times but is invaluable in nearly impossible to find with soap water leak.

[epion2985]

those leak detectors is ust crap, a friend that work as a Frigirator techican, dunno if that is what it is called in english, but he was over at my place and refilled my vapochill and we talked about that and he worked with maybe cases when there was a leak and he used the instruments with no go and then used soap water and found the leak

From hanging around HVAC guys in person I have learned one thing consearning leak detectors, aprentices and most people not skilled with the use of one always blame it and call it a crappy detector, when in truth they just dont know how to use it. You have to know how to work the sensitivity how to point it, where and when. Watching an old HVAC guy working it almost looks like an art/skill. Dont blame the detector, its like a bad dancer blaming his shoes.

[[486]]

sorry just stating an opinion:(