Best memory for DFI NF4....my own results

[mdzcpa]

This is just FYI based on my own experiences and not a debate thread.

In summary, over the last 6 weeks I have set up 8 AMD64 based systems. 2 for me (see sig), 1 for a buddy, and 5 for customers. All systems were based on the DFI NF4 board...some SLI...some just Ultra. Some using the FX55, and most using 3500s. Memory I tried includes old Mushkin and Corsair BH5, Gskill LA, Gskill LE, and OCZ VX 4400.

After going through DOZENS of combinations of hardware and various cooling systems, I have found that one RAM works particularly well with the DFI NF4 mobo. In fact, the compatability is almost uncanny. And the RAM is the Gskill LE.

Not only do I get my best bandwidth with the LE, it just seems to "play nice" with the memory controllers. When pushing things to the edge, I get simple Super Pi "not in exact round" errors and not BSODs like I did with the LA and VX.

Don't get me wrong, the LA and VX is good memory...its just that the LE seems so much smoother and easier to work with on the DFI NF4.....consistently. Again, I fixed so many issues by just dropping in the LE that the "fix" is uncanny. Almost like the memory was made for the board. I know that's not true, but to have so many systems respond so well to the LE its just hard to overlook.

For example, after trying the Gskill LA, some older Corsair BH5, and then the OCZ VX with some decent results in my own water cooled daily rig, I decided to just go back and try a pair of trusty ole Gskill LE. I had pushed the chip to the edge (its a 3500 NC) to the point of where the memory controller was causing errors. The chip would not go past 2550 although I had it previously higher on my NEO2. Threw in the LE and BAM! Right to 295 2.5-3-3-7 at only 2.8v rock stable. It would do way more but my 3500+ chip is maxxed at 295 x 9 for 2650.

I was running the VX at 260-265...but it took 3.5v +/- to get there. And even at 2-2-2-8 it could not compete with the Gskill LE at 295 2.5-3-3-7.

Although the results with the VX were very good in thier own right, the LE was so much easir to obtain high stable overclocks...and I can do it with waaaay less voltage.

I'm not out to endorse any one brand here, just give my report on something that has so significantly and positiviely affected many of my recent builds.

[perkam]

OMG WOW so Gskill LE is good, Thats so cool !!! ...as if we didnt already know that :(

Any screenies :D ?

Perkam

[mdzcpa]

OMG WOW so Gskill LE is good, Thats so cool !!! ...as if we didnt already know that :(

Any screenies :D ?


I think you missed the point.

I'm sure if I went after some insane bandwidth screenies I could net a few on my FX system. BUT....

The point isn't really about bansi overclocks and benches. Nor is it about how "good" the memory is or isn't. Its about how well the LE works with the DFI NF4 mobo. Like I said, its just uncanny. After trying many types of RAM, of the 8 systems built, 6 ended up with LE in there. Two with LA....and only because the LE was out of stock for a while. Now I can't help but think that I left some stable overl:banana::banana::banana::banana:ing headroom on the table with those two LA systems.

To be honest, I thought this would be a good tip for those looking for the best parts to build with. So I offer this up based on what I found with my own two hands over many builds.....for what its worth.

[linhvndiy]

I tested many Corsair 3200XL ver1.2 and 4400C25 on DFI nf4 ultra D, SLI, SLI DR with FX55, 3000+, 3500+. And all of them rock stable at least 310mhz with 2.5-4-3-7(Max 2.9v) BOTH 256x2 and 512x2. Mine run 320mhz 24/7 all test like you and real apps. My vote for Corsair.:D

[EMC2]

Nice post Mike, hope you're doing well bro :D

Not for myself (I have a nice size cache of mem right now... no pun intended :p: ), but for others and my curiosity...

The LA vs LE comments... what's the probability/possibility in your mind that it was a combination of a really good LE and/or a not-so-great LA?

[Major]

I have come to the same conclusion Mike, altho I haven't put as many NF4 systems together as you have. My LE takes my 3500 to the limit, the memory controller craps out way before the memory does. I've tried some BH-5 with out impressive results, and have spent atleast 8-10 hours trying to get my VX to pass memtest at 260mhz and have decided it just aint going to happen.

The Asus A8N liked the LE too, like you said its almost like the G.Skill LE is made just for the A64 memory controller or vice versa.

I'm sticking with the LE, just wish I could get mine to run 2.5-3-3 instead of 2.5-4-3 anyone know any tricks ? lol

[Dumo]

Imo, its not LE or LA. Its beetween weeks of production (of tccd chips), My LE with tccd 0431 run stable up to 314 @ 2.8V /2.5-4-3-5.....and LA with tccd 0440 reached 338 @ 3.1V /2.5-4-3-6. Some newer batches of LE also use tccd 0440 or 0437 with different SPD programing compared to LA with the same week of tccd.
Two things remain the same for Gskill....it is...http://brain-power.net/ and this...http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/DRAM/DDRSDRAM/DDRSDRAMcomponent/256Mbit/K4H560838F/K4H560838F.htm

[cupra]

Dumo is right' its really dependi on you samsung chip date, the fdi do good work with all of the rams that use b.power pcd, it can take them higher then enader boards.

even the le-440 can be different, my old le can boot with 2.9v and stable in 3.1v !

my another le can do same in 2.8v.

[texuspete00]

I'm sticking with the LE, just wish I could get mine to run 2.5-3-3 instead of 2.5-4-3 anyone know any tricks ? lol

Yeah, a multiplier of 10. :D Hehe..nah... 9*302 (with 4) is probably a little better or same than 10*272 (with 3). Damn crazy ass half multis always making it a trick to get the sweet spot. Well maybe not I just don't use them. Always a question of tighter this or that or 30 fsb or so!
---------

As far as LA vrs. LE, it's said LE is more inclined to do well on 1T. I dont have piles to test but if thats true it's pretty much an open and shut case which I would consider to play nice. My LE's and my Ultra-D do play quite nice. As far as comparisons though I already ditched my BH5, my NF4 Chaintech didnt like them much in 1T but both of these nf4's love the LE's. 0437 btw.

OT: Hey mdzcpa, I'm curious do you use the back heater with your DFI and MachII? Killed some gear so I havent been able to come after you in COD:UO. :D

[mdzcpa]

The LA vs LE comments... what's the probability/possibility in your mind that it was a combination of a really good LE and/or a not-so-great LA?

Well, in the "mix" of all the memory I tried I had 1 pair of VX, 2 pairs of BH5, 3 pairs of LA, and 6 pairs of LE.

6 of the 8 rigs ended up with LE.
2 with LA, with the third pair sold off.
the VX is going up for sale
the BH5 went back into the drawer

With all of these modules to try I think I may have gone a long way towards eliminating the "combination of a really good LE and/or a not-so-great LA" being the issue. Not a scientific conclusion by any means, but enough to note a definite trend.


My LE takes my 3500 to the limit, the memory controller craps out way before the memory does. I've tried some BH-5 with out impressive results, and have spent atleast 8-10 hours trying to get my VX to pass memtest at 260mhz and have decided it just aint going to happen.


Very similar to my experiences. In fact, the 3 pairs of LA I had were just as finicky as the VX and BH5 I had as well.



Imo, its not LE or LA. Its beetween weeks of production (of tccd chips),

I used to think this was the case also, but I don't think so anymore. I tried a total of 9 memory pairs....6 LE and 3 LA. They were procured at different times from different vendors over various weeks of production. In each and every instance the LE performed better than the LA regardless of the production week.


In the end, none of this was done scientifically enough to produce solid conclusions. At the time I was throwing the first few systems together, I was operating under the impression that the production week was more important than it being LE or LA...sort of what was mentioned above. Had I known that I was going to discover that the LE always outperformed the LA, I would have improved the testing methods.

Again, I'm not saying that the LA is bad...just that acheiving high stable overclocks was easier with the LE and took less voltage to do it. And when I say that the LE outperformed the LA I don't mean in pure max memory overclock. I'm more referring to the ability to push the CPU memory controller further and still play nice with the ram when its on the edge. By dropping the mulitplier and cranking the RAM up success was more a factor of week of production. But when the CPU was at the hairy edge (of 24/7 stability not suicide shot stable) the LE always netted higher CPU clocks. I hope I explained that well :)




OT: Hey mdzcpa, I'm curious do you use the back heater with your DFI and MachII? Killed some gear so I havent been able to come after you in COD:UO. :D

Yep. I always do. Even though the air in my house during the winter is drier than a popcorn fart I still use it. Since my machine runs 24/7 I have had issues of condensation on components surrounding the socket area during long periods of idle time.

[j3lly]

i've been hearing noobs go on and on about on-die memory controler is defective or what not :rolleyes:

can any of you expert explain why and how the on-die memory controler is defective?

[chinese_lover]

should i get Gskill LE 512x2 since i am building a new system at the moment,
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-231-004&depa=1
i was going to go with TwinMOS Dual Channel Kit 512x2
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=0
i am getting a DFI "LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D" NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU
AMD Athlon 64 3200 winchester 939
EVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT Video Card Model "128-P2-N368-TX
i know the twinmos is got good results on most things,
which should i go with on my ram
for now
Thanks,Chris^_^

[mdzcpa]

This is XS, doesn't really matter what 'plays nice'

Sure it does. Many of us that have been around here for a few years like to help out others who have less experience. It isn't all about the top clockers showing off suicide screen shots. If the dozens of PMs I get asking for tuning advice are any indication, there are a lot of people that value this kind of advice.

I know that well tuned Winbond based mem will net you maximum 3D and Pi performance

Oh really? Is that why most of the folks running NF4 systems on the ORB Hall of Fame are running TCCD?

Probably just takes alot more fiddling to get it right than the very flexible TCCD. <- I'm told it's easy to get to grips with compared to Winbond based mem on A64.

Well seeing that what "you know" comes from what "you're told" and not from your own personal experience, I'll take that into consideration:)


TCCD is great for a gamer or casual o/cer, not the stuff of champions tho.

Really? I didn't know that. I suppose I should take down my 03 and 05 ORB scores that were number 1 just a few weeks ago using TCCD;) In fact, I think my scores are still #1 among XS members:D

Anyway, again, you missed the point. I don;t know how many times I need to write it....its not about max overclock. Its about building a stable system:)

[mdzcpa]

should i get Gskill LE 512x2 since i am building a new system at the moment,
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-231-004&depa=1
i was going to go with TwinMOS Dual Channel Kit 512x2
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=0
i am getting a DFI "LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D" NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU
AMD Athlon 64 3200 winchester 939
EVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT Video Card Model "128-P2-N368-TX
i know the twinmos is got good results on most things,
which should i go with on my ram
for now
Thanks,Chris^_^

Its up to you.

All I know is that the forums across the web are choc full of folks struggling with the DFI NF4 mobo. What I detailed was my own results that others can review and draw thier own opinion from. All I know is that if you want a good overclocking trouble free system, the Gskill LE works awefully well with the DFI NF4

[Dumo]

Sure it does. Many of us that have been around here for a few years like to help out others who have less experience. It isn't all about the top clockers showing off suicide screen shots.Right at the red dot :toast: ...I tried your 11.5x287 setting with my first LE (when Gskill still a new found tccd wizard) many moons ago and thats my 24/7 stable setting for a long time......http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44200

[IvanAndreevich]

Does the difference between LA and LE lie in the PCB or the chips?

[mdzcpa]

Right at the red dot :toast: ...I tried your 11.5x287 setting with my first LE (when Gskill still a new found tccd wizard) many moons ago and thats my 24/7 stable setting for a long time......

Thanks. I appreciate the kudos and I'm glad you got the jist of my post. Sometimes folks loose sight of the basics on a forum like this.

[cabojoe]

Hi Mike...I guess he didn't realize he was talking to a champ. BTW, I've been keeping track of your best posts, which usually boil down to a one liner that make more sense than 99 percent of overclocking posts I read. I call em Mikeisms. A recent one that I took to heart was something like "why should I raise a voltage just because there is an option to?" Worked for me...Thanx.

[Dumo]

Thanks. I appreciate the kudos and I'm glad you got the jist of my post. Sometimes folks loose sight of the basics on a forum like this.B/way do you still have those LE from excaliberPC? Mine sold for this LA :(

[HiJon89]

Thanks for the info mdzcpa, I feel a lot better about my decision to keep the GSkill over the BH-5 :toast:

[gundamit]

Unless you've read a lot of his posts you may not know mdzcpa has always struck a great balance between total balls out performance and game worthy stabilty. He's only pointing out a fact about G.Skill LE. Its easy to play with and packs a huge bandwidth punch. I finally decided to stop playing with UTT and BH-5 and just go with my TCCD while I fumble about with my SLI set-up. I don't need the distraction of burn-in, voltage and heat issues to take my mind off finding the best bios and drivers for these video cards. Once the SLI set-up is done I may get back to the BH-5 just for benches, but it'll be TCCD for game time.

This TCCD is the only thing that has stopped me from joining other who are doing their own binning process on $70 sticks from Twinmos and now Mushkin Blue. Still very tempting though. :)

[mdzcpa]

Hi Mike...I guess he didn't realize he was talking to a champ. BTW, I've been keeping track of your best posts, which usually boil down to a one liner that make more sense than 99 percent of overclocking posts I read. I call em Mikeisms. A recent one that I took to heart was something like "why should I raise a voltage just because there is an option to?" Worked for me...Thanx.

Thanks:) Threads like this aren't meant to lecture or debate or sound like I'm preaching (and I apologize to anyone that reads my post that way). There are plenty or smarter folks than me on this forum. I just share my own personal experiences for whatever thats worth. To some folks its good stuff. To others...well they just see debate material:)

I''m glad that there at least a few folks that gain something positive from my comments. I'm certainly no master overl:banana::banana::banana::banana:er or bansi bench guy. I leave that stuff to OPP, FUGGER, Macci, and the others:) But, that said, I have been able to manage some pretty decent performance out of real 24/7 rigs...that's what I enjoy doing:)

[mdzcpa]

B/way do you still have those LE from excaliberPC? Mine sold for this LA :(

LOL...yep! That stuff still runs 24/7 in my own gaming rig:D

[mdzcpa]

Unless you've read a lot of his posts you may not know mdzcpa has always struck a great balance between total balls out performance and game worthy stabilty. He's only pointing out a fact about G.Skill LE. Its easy to play with and packs a huge bandwidth punch. I finally decided to stop playing with UTT and BH-5 and just go with my TCCD while I fumble about with my SLI set-up. I don't need the distraction of burn-in, voltage and heat issues to take my mind off finding the best bios and drivers for these video cards.


Well said and right on the mark! I never said that the LA TCCD, or BH5, or UTT stuff was a bad choice. And for max performance in benches the BH5 and UTT stuff rocks...no doubt. LOL...in fact, I'm thinking of keeping my VX around just for benching purposes:D But, when I need 98% of the performance with much much better stability while at the hairy edge of overclocks, I'll have the LE in there.

I guess what I was trying to say has actually been communicated. I'm feeling better about this thread now:)

[muzz]

Thanks Mike, as usual you have shared what you have found in actual build testing.
I personally appreciate you sharing this experience with us.

m

[CHaynes112]

mdzcpa,

I have some GSkill 1GB PC4400 LE (440). I read a thread where you were recommending to set the BIOS at 2.5-4-3-7 and leave everything else on Auto. Well, that works fine... it gives me more HTT than I can use :) HOWEVER, when changing the timings to 2.5-3-3-7 (and trying to hit 290MHz), things don't run so smooth. I was wondering if you had any quick advice on what other timings to change?!

-Thanks

[mdzcpa]

When going for more aggressive performance, I use the following:

http://home.comcast.net/~mdzcpa/images/forumpics/LA.jpg

[EMC2]

I guess what I was trying to say has actually been communicated. I'm feeling better about this thread now:)

You did a great job, within the first 2 posts, communicating the very good info Mike (as always) :toast: