View Full Version : Getting started: The tools
floshey
02-08-2005, 09:09 AM
Hi guys, yesterday i talked to a good friend of mine, and i realized that the last couple of month my mind has been focused on phase-change and the theory behind, now i am ready to take the full stepp and buy my own equipment so i can get started.
But before i order anything, i would like your confirmation that it is ok. The vacuum pump and a MAPP torch (maybe a O/A, depends on price) i'm gonna buy locally, since the shipment will be a pain in the a**)
I have ordered everything from BES Ltd. (http://www.bes.ltd.uk), which is in the UK and therefore i dont have to pay a huge amount of Tax and so on cause Denmark and England are both members of EU.
I have the following parts in my basket.
FLARING TOOL, 45E £31.80
DIFFERENTIAL DIGITAL THERMOMETER DT 200 £62.79
REFCO BM2-3-DS-R410A MANIFOLD £54.22
3 X 1/4" REFCO COLOUR CODED HOSE £9.22
SIZE 1 TUBE CUTTER £12.24
SPARE WHEEL £1.24
EXTERNAL TUBE BENDER 8MM £0.65
EXTERNAL TUBE BENDER 10MM £0.69
EXTERNAL TUBE BENDER 12MM £0.72
EXTERNAL TUBE BENDER 15MM £0.94
Grand Total £208.57
Spring tube benders from 8mm to 15mm, a tube cutter with a range from 4mm to 28mm, R410A pressure gauge with three color coded hoses, rated to 870PSI, a UEI thermometer capable of measuring down to -200ºC (do i need probes for this unit, or are they included?), and a flaring tool.
Do i need anything else (except the vacuum pump and torch)?
you should get 2 probes with the dt200.
i would get a few xtra probes they are cheap compared to the thermometer.
they really come in handy.
ie condenser tip temp, suction line temp, evap temp, room temp i wish i got more probes when i got mine (5 isn’t enough if working on more than one project)
floshey
02-08-2005, 09:47 AM
Where can i buy extra probes? And i should go for Type T right?
k type ok i think, t more accurate, but hey if its cold its cold. i got mine from chilly1, the place that you order it from should sell extra probes, to memory i paid about $15 for extrqa probe.
i should of got 10.
you should get 2 k type probes with the dt200 but its capible of reading the t's.
gclg2000
02-08-2005, 10:00 AM
a swag or "swedge" tool may be nice.
floshey
02-08-2005, 10:01 AM
The thermometer can only have 2 probes monitoring at the time, right? I am going to order some parts from chilly1 aswell so if the thermometer is cheaper, or i can get the probes along with some parts, i guess that would be easier.
floshey
02-08-2005, 10:04 AM
a swag or "swedge" tool may be nice.
What is that exactly?
The thermometer can only have 2 probes monitoring at the time, right? I am going to order some parts from chilly1 aswell so if the thermometer is cheaper, or i can get the probes along with some parts, i guess that would be easier.
yeah only 2 probes at once can be measured.
have to pm him for prices
hatemi
02-08-2005, 10:27 AM
Swage tool is a tool you use to join 2 same sized tubes together. You just hit punch and fit the swaging tool inside the tube and it makes it larger.
You might want to check out what connectors those R410 manifoilds have since I have seen a set with 1/8 connectors instead of the regular 1/4.
floshey
02-08-2005, 11:48 AM
Swage tool is a tool you use to join 2 same sized tubes together. You just hit punch and fit the swaging tool inside the tube and it makes it larger.
You might want to check out what connectors those R410 manifoilds have since I have seen a set with 1/8 connectors instead of the regular 1/4.
Um that would be the flaring tool? http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/graphics/15871.gif
nope, sawging is differant, some kits have a swagging head also.
floshey
02-08-2005, 12:16 PM
But the flaring tool can expand a tube so it fits in a tube with the same size, isnt that the idea behind a swaging tool too?
Tonic
02-08-2005, 01:42 PM
Thanks to swaging tool, you can fit tube to other tube (which have exactly same dimensions)
Flaring tools makes flares :)
There's photo with flared tube's end
http://images.rvproject.com/images/2003/20030825_flared_tube_end.jpg
BTW, normally flaring tools can makes larger flared nuts than this one from photo..
Russell_hq
02-08-2005, 01:53 PM
Why dont you go for the Standard Manifold that BES offer. Its only £18.09 and will do everything you need. It works with the hoses that BES offer aswell. I bought it and the hoses and it worked just as well as I need it too :)
gclg2000
02-08-2005, 02:48 PM
no the below pic is a swag (aka swedge) tool. The smaller parts is the same as ID of teh tubing and the larger parts "swags" it out so you can fit the OD of the pipe inside now.
http://www.teampuss.com/runmc/Chilly1%20Evaporator%20Guide/Evap%20guide/17%20line%20swagged%20and%20joined.jpg
floshey
02-09-2005, 03:49 AM
Why dont you go for the Standard Manifold that BES offer. Its only £18.09 and will do everything you need. It works with the hoses that BES offer aswell. I bought it and the hoses and it worked just as well as I need it too :)
Okay, thanks, i will do that, just wasnt sure how big a pressure they could handle
no the below pic is a swag (aka swedge) tool. The smaller parts is the same as ID of teh tubing and the larger parts "swags" it out so you can fit the OD of the pipe inside now.
Okay guys, youre making me real confused, please take a look at lardarse's guide over at vr-zone ( http://www.vr-zone.com/index.cgi?i=713&s=3 ), there he shows how a flaring tool works, and as far as i can understand it does exactly what you are saying, that is expanding a tube's ID so it fits another tube's(same size) OD.
Russell_hq
02-09-2005, 04:23 AM
Some people seem to get mixed up between swaging and flaring for some reason.
You flare a tube to connect it to a flare connection and use a flare nut to join. as shown
http://www.russellpetrie.plus.com/images/flareconnection.bmp
you swage a tube so you can solder another tube into it. Below are the proiles of a flared and swaged tube. note the difference.
http://www.russellpetrie.plus.com/images/flareswage.bmp
Also I think that when flaring or swaging you use the same tool to hold the pipe. The one with the wingnuts and holes of various diameters. Maybe this is whats confusing people? I dunno.
And as for lardarse's guide, I have no idea what he has done. It looks like he has flared the tube then brazed it together? Strange.
cold_ice
02-09-2005, 06:03 AM
Ladarse has a tool, where you can put on a attachment for swaging and one for flaring.
You can see it at this picture, this is for swaging.
http://www.vr-zone.com/Shamino/phasebasic1/4.JPG
For flaring he uses another attachment
http://www.vr-zone.com/Shamino/phasebasic1/31.JPG
I looked everywhere for a swaging tool like Ladarse's one, but I didn't found anything like this. The punch swag tool like in gclg2000's picture doesn't do the job well. Maybe because I'm using metric tubing, but the tool is for tubing in inch.
floshey
02-09-2005, 06:11 AM
Thank you Russell_hq and cold_ice, that really explained it properly, thanks. So i can almost see that a swaged joint would be better than a flared. Is it ok to just use the flaring tool or is the swage tool needen for quality work?
gclg2000
02-09-2005, 06:40 AM
I pulled that pic from the "chilly1 assembly guide." Using that is fine. It's easy, put it in your pipe holder and hammer it in.
Using a swag is the best, cuz it's only 1 joint, and the solder can make a nice easy, clean, secrue contact with the tubing and you can even build it up around the lip to make sure.
I think you were getting confused with Lard''s pics, because he didn't punch his swag that deep so it looked more like a flare. Ideally, he needs to do it "deeper" for more surface contact on the pipe so it will be a stronger and easier joint to braze. Although, what he did is fine and shouldn't really make a difference.