Antec Neo Power 480w Suggestions..

[WesM63]

Hey guys,
No i'm not buying one, I wouldn't trade my PC Power and Cooling 510w deluxe for anything. ;)

I keep getting into arguments with some co-workers about this PSU.

Ever since Maximum PC published there article giving it a "10" and the OCZ and PC&PC 7/9, this is the only psu they will buy for our customers. Yes even a $5k FX55/6800U OC system.

I remember seeing a thread a while back about it but can't seem to find it. I know which PSU is better but they are stubbron and beleive anything that magazine publishes.

So please, explain to them about this psu.(they will be visiting to read) or link me to that thread.

Just for comparisons sake:

Neo power 480 specs:
+3.3V@30A
+5V@38A
+12V1@18A, +12V2@15A
-12V@1A
+5VSB@2A


Pc & Power Cooling 510w Deluxe:
+5V @ 40A
+12V @ 34A/38A
-5V @ 0.3A
-12V @ 2A
+3.3V @ 30A
+5VSB @ 3A
power<510W
pk. power<650W

[lalPOOO]

Well, your cowokers are wrong and maximumpc is wrong... whats new? :p:

[WesM63]

lol I realize that but they don't beleive me ;)

[jjcom]

Show them the specs...they need to learn that just 'cause its in a magazine doesn't make it true.

jjcom

[mdzcpa]

Wes,

I picked up a Antec NEO based on that article and gave it a whirl. Its a good PSU for sure, but the PCP&C kicks its ass.

Point your co-workers to the Letter section of the next months Maximum PC. The CEO of PCP&C made a bunch of great points as to why the PCP&C supplies are much better than "the competition."

Here are some facts he brought up about the 510 turbo compared to the NEO:

The 510 turbo has 30% more peak power, 10% wider input range, 100% longer hold time, 3 x better voltage regulation, 50% less output ripple, and a 2 year longer warranty.

Another very important factor is heat. The PCP&C is rated at full power up to 50C. That's the best in class. No one tops this.

Again, the NEO worked out "okay" for me. It provided enough juice to run my SLI rig. But, things got dicey when I began to overclock heavily. The PCP&C didn't even blink.

[Arkangyl]

I believe the main reason why the PC P&C didn't get a 10 was it didn't have modular cables (utter BS) , it's expensive (freakin duh! it's the king) and it's loud, unfortunatly we don't know what 'loud' means, no dbA number...

The OCZ got a 7 because, again, no modular cables (WTF? mod cables are not that big a deal) and the voltages were a little off, appearantly MaxPC doesn't understand what voltage pots do... (mind you they said multi-meter readings were off, not rail stability)

In the MaxPC review they neglected several key PSU review points
~Osciliscope readings of the rails, along with the PSU's with pots being properly tuned beforehand, this is how rail stability is really tested
~Max OC's with the different PSU's, shows the same result as the Osciliscope but without any real graph, here the data is interperative with the highest OC probably meaning the most stable lines
~Power draw vs. Power Output (AC draw to DC output) at various power draw levels, let us see how it did along the way, many PSU's are 80-85% through 200w draw but when the load comes on they drop into the 60's%, I have no idea what hole MaxPC got their numbers from
~torturetest? WTF? they could have easily added more power draw or invested in PSU testing machinery to get the real numbres (amps on each rail). furthermore the PSU's actual 'max wattage' is not even touched here
~as a side note the X-Connect MaxPC used was a beta version, reportedly MaxPC refused to re-review a newer version of the PSU (it's been doing great everywhere else, inc for me)
~PSU temp, case temp and PSU noise (in dbA, not your frickin opinion) this lets the buyer/user know how effective the PSU's cooling solution is, weather it will heat up your case or cool it off (affecting OC's and performance) and finally the noise is something everyone has to decide for themselves, I'm a 25dbA guy, some people have Tornadoes and 45dbA wont be heard, others are noise freaks and 20dbA is the limit; loud doesn't mean anything!

my take on MaxPC's review, this on the heels of reccomending putting a s754 CPU in a s939 mobo and I'm done with em

[Alexandrus]

Guys, I won't comment on the PCPC 510 PSU, I know it's great and all, but the NeoPower isn't too shabby either. The internal electrical part is awesome, and all Antec PSUs use military standard components, which are way better than stadard ones everyone lese uses.
mdzcpa "The 510 turbo has 30% more peak power, 10% wider input range, 100% longer hold time, 3 x better voltage regulation, 50% less output ripple, and a 2 year longer warranty.", OK, 30% more peak power, which actually doesn't matter at all, because at peak power any PSU works for about 1 minute. Input range, again, is not that important, if you have bad electrical in the house, one way or the other you're going to be screwed sooner or later. Hold time, yes, it's important, but 3 times better voltage regulation ? I know one is rated 1% and the other 3%, but hey, test them under load, with a PSU tester, and things might not be quite just like in specs. Too bad I don't have a PCPC 510 PSU to test, I have plenty of NeoPower PSUs to test, and I would do a comparison.
Ripple and warranty are important, I admit, but I won't use a PSU for 3 years anyway, as for the ripple, well, you're right.
Anyway, comparing a 120$ PSU and a 250$ PSU you would expect one to be better, right ? And it's not hard to guess which one ;)

[mdzcpa]

OK, 30% more peak power, which actually doesn't matter at all, because at peak power any PSU works for about 1 minute.

What you mean to say is that peak power isn't important to YOU. But it is to a lot of other folks...especially those here at XS. When you are on the bleddin edge of a high overclock, stability and strength of the PSU on boot up matters a great deal.

Input range, again, is not that important, if you have bad electrical in the house, one way or the other you're going to be screwed sooner or later.

Again, for YOU, perhaps not that important. But, again, for many it is very important. The world is not black and white. The electrical systems that everyone has to run off of in the world are not just "good" or "bad". Some systems are "okay" or "marginal" and have some issues. And many times it has nothing to do with the local structure wiring, but more to do with power supplied by the utility company. Your opinion of input range is obviously based only on your own personal supply of clean power.


Hold time, yes, it's important, but 3 times better voltage regulation ? I know one is rated 1% and the other 3%, but hey, test them under load, with a PSU tester, and things might not be quite just like in specs.

Ummm...the voltage regualtion specs for both PSUs ARE determined under load. That's the point of the spec. But, anyway, it looks like we agree that this is indeed an important spec.

Ripple and warranty are important, I admit, but I won't use a PSU for 3 years anyway, as for the ripple, well, you're right.

Again, this is about YOU, and not about the facts. Just because YOU don't care about the warranty doesn't mean others do not. As for the ripple, well of course that's important and I am glad you agree.

Anyway, comparing a 120$ PSU and a 250$ PSU you would expect one to be better, right ? And it's not hard to guess which one ;)

Well, actually the PCP&C 510 turbo can be had for $197. So the difference in price is not as big as you say. Furthermore, "you get what you pay for" in life. If you like "cheap" things, so be it, that's your choice. But, for many of us here at XS, we prefer going with the better gear. And it is indeed quite clear which PSU is better!

LOL...and all that said...what i wrote was only a quote from Maximum PC as I clearly stated in my post. Those weren't even my own points:D

[Alexandrus]

Seems like you do not know what peak power means. Peak power is the max power achived by the PSU, but only works in those conditions for a limited time, around 30 secs before entering protection and shutting down. So, if you're there, you're screwed ;)

About warranty and price, well, I throw away warranty in the first day because I never keep my stuff stock. Modding a PSU is the first thing I do(rimes :D). It's the XS way :D
As for price, the NeoPower can be had for less than 120$ as well, but I just pointed out the difference. Of course I preffer to buy the better product, but instead of acusing me I only see my point of view, better think about people that need a silent rig, or do not overclock to the max, like XS members. I admit PCPC 510 is the better PSU, from the purely technical point of view, but hey, for many systems it's overkill, and it's damn loud compared to the NeoPower.
When choosing a PSU many things must be considered, and the PCPC 510 will definitely not fit everyone's requirements, no PSU will.

[mdzcpa]

LOL...I never said the PCP&C is for everyone. And I also never said the NEO was a bad choice did I?

Let's face it, your just a bit overly sensitive and you didn't like seeing the hard specs of the PSUs compared like that:D

Unlike you, I have BOTH PSUs sitting here and I've used both on the latest power comsuming SLI rigs. If you look at what Wes was asking, he wanted evidence to prove the PCP&C was the better PSU from a specification standard. That's just what I gave him....plenty of ammunition!

Again, even with the PCP&C superior specs, I never "bashed" the NEO. I think you need to work on being not be so senstive:D

[Alexandrus]

Nope, I'm not sensitive really, sorry if I gave that impression, and I have no love for the NeoPopwer, if that's what you're trying to say. It's a very good PSU for a decent rig or for a silent rig(if the damn fan is replaced, that is ;)), has good efficiency(now that's important if you care about your electrical bill :)), and a lot of other advantages, but it won't compare to the PCPC when it comes to usage in OCed rigs, and mainly because of the +12V line, which is split in two, and that sucks for OC.
Now it all depends on what you want from a PSU, like I said, the guys at SPCR wouldn't even consider the PCPC, not even for their loudest rig, while a heavy dutty OCer would rather use the PCPC or the OCZ PowerStream.

PS. I don't have the PCPC PSU right now, had one, the non-Deluxe, older version, and it rocked, but had to go :(

PPS. Funny thing, we're the only guys no this forum with Dexter as our avatars and we're arguing :D

[mdzcpa]

It's a very good PSU for a decent rig or for a silent rig(if the damn fan is replaced, that is ;)), has good efficiency(now that's important if you care about your electrical bill :)), and a lot of other advantages, but it won't compare to the PCPC when it comes to usage in OCed rigs, and mainly because of the +12V line, which is split in two, and that sucks for OC.

Now it all depends on what you want from a PSU


I agree 100%. One PSU does not fit all. The NEO, for what it offers is a damn good PSU.

Again, Wes (the guy who started the thread), was asking for ammunition to prove the PCP&C was better from a technical standpoint. That's what I gave him.

Let's call a truce. Two Dexters arguing cannot be a pretty sight:D

[Alexandrus]

Heck, if anyone here doesn't know the PCPC 510 is a better PSU than the Neo, of course, from a technical standpoint, then they're in the wrong forum ;)
We were only debating, nothing personal and we're not enemies, we're all buddies here at XS, right ? :D

As for Dexter, gotta love him, too bad the design team changed, and now not even the voices are the same :( So sad, I love that boy genius :D

[WesM63]

LOL, Yes I asked for information on the psu's.

Alexandurs, If you test the PC&C be sure to put a load on it as the Active PFC will give inaccurate readings unloaded.

Honeslty I've had my PC&C for 2yrs and its been in and out of 5 diffrent rigs. No mods nothing, still the best $200 i've ever spent!

[Alexandrus]

I know, most PSUs with Active PFC behave strangely when not having any load. Some don't even start, some have increased voltage on all rails when loaded, and terrible voltages when no load is applied.
Too bad I don't have the PCPC PSU anymore. Oh well, guess I'd better buy a new one :D

[WesM63]

Any input on the OCZ Modstream/Powerstream 520w vs the Neo 480w?

[Alexandrus]

Haven't tested the OCZ yet, will have them in about a month or so, I hope.

[Rabidmoose171]

Its really quite simple. One is good... one is just better.

Neither is a bad choice.

[Flask28]

It's a very good PSU for a decent rig or for a silent rig(if the damn fan is replaced, that is ;))

What 120mm fan do you prefer? I have a Neo going into a build soon for an aircooled, lightly (non-xtreme! :) overclocked, non-SLI box.

I looked hard at the PCP&C for this project, and if this were a real XS box - watercooled or phase and 40% OC'ed - I would have purchased that instead without any question. For this build, a winne with an OC target of 2.6 and a 6800GT or 800xl hopefully up 12-15% in a mnpctech SC195 case, I decided a neo would be plenty, and being quieter was a very nice bonus.

[Alexandrus]

I'd replace the fan in the Neo with a 120mm Globe fan, mount it with gormets or any kind of fan dampening material, silica rubber.
mnpctech.com is the place to buy the fan I am talking about, and they have pretty much everything to mod a case or a PSU to make it quieter.

[Flask28]

Thanks for the info - Yeah, Bill is a good guy.